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Brizae
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gin G you know what the real problem is people
people that are either to stupid or ignorant to accept it for what it is
working as intended
ps.opera 10 = AWESOME
QFT or would "/thread" be more appropriate? I'm not as net savy as you kids are. Anyway, Gin G speaks the truth.
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Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:00:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Paul Clavet on 01/09/2009 20:00:52
Originally by: Ezevector There isn't much interaction in ninja salvaging unless it's happening in 0.0, as salvage isn't considered theft. Therefore, no PvP can result. The current system prevents PvP. It doesn't increase the risk to mission runners; it just lowers their return.
Orly?
---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Kyrjanen Janen
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:09:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Kyrjanen Janen on 01/09/2009 20:09:20 question:
ccp intended salvage wrecks as not belonging to anyone.
say i am in a mission and a salvage-looter comes in and salvages 'my' wrecks. if i then shoot the wrecks, isnt that a petetionable offence for harassment ? since i do not gain any advantage when i shoot the wrecks, except that he doesnt get em.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: King Rothgar I like the idea. Also make wrecks probable in some fashion to go with it.
What he said
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Gerry Mack
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:01:00 -
[35]
The whole CCP standpoint can be summed up in 3 words, "Need for speed". Thousands of pieces of detrius floating around in a server take up a bit of otherwise useful space.
I would even consider a 15 minute timer when 'your' salvage AND loot turn from yellow to white. That might even speed up the removal of the garbage.
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Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ezevector
I think it's funny how you and your uncle get together with a webcam and (I'm just gonna go ahead and save the moderators some time by not writing the rest).
a little touchy arent you
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:59:00 -
[37]
In the time you debate about salvaging have I collected salvage worth millions of ISK. Your problem is not salvaging. You are the virgins of salvaging. --
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Metalcali
Dreams In Digital
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Paul Clavet Edited by: Paul Clavet on 01/09/2009 20:00:52
Originally by: Ezevector There isn't much interaction in ninja salvaging unless it's happening in 0.0, as salvage isn't considered theft. Therefore, no PvP can result. The current system prevents PvP. It doesn't increase the risk to mission runners; it just lowers their return.
Orly?
Riveting read there old chap ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked.
OP does not contain an idea.
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Glospey
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Posted - 2009.09.02 01:21:00 -
[39]
You know something, I haven't been ninja salvaged as I, too, tend to stay in systems that most people avoid BUT this post was never intended to stop/punish ninja salvagers as far as I can tell so all of you people whining about whiners can shut up now.
Personally, I think the suggestion of making wrecks "minable" is a neat idea. Yes, any changes made will affect the market BUT, as someone already pointed out, economics WILL take over and the market will stabilize.
I think requiring additional skills is unnecessary. Salvaging (and salvaging well) already require a fair number skills. IF salvaging was reworked, some of those skills MAY be rewritten slightly but I think it'd only be slight. Additional skills would be unnecessary or components or modules or rigs would be unnecessary as there are already rigs that boost salvaging.
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nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.09.02 02:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 02/09/2009 02:35:03
Originally by: Paul Clavet Edited by: Paul Clavet on 01/09/2009 20:00:52
Originally by: Ezevector There isn't much interaction in ninja salvaging unless it's happening in 0.0, as salvage isn't considered theft. Therefore, no PvP can result. The current system prevents PvP. It doesn't increase the risk to mission runners; it just lowers their return.
Orly?
Clearly, he is someone who has next-to-zero pvp experience, thinking that as long as he is driving a Hyperion (which is "supposed" to be a great PVP battleship..........) with 3 repairers (WTF is that..?).
I dont get it, is grinding mission and mission and watch that wallet figure go 1bil......2bil..........3bil........that interesting? Well.....ninja salvages reduces my income but I'd happily pay 15% of my isk/hour rate for someone to play around with, as long as they dont give me a reason to shoot them though.
looking at the killmail, where did that 400k damage from a NPC angel ship come from
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Harmless Hamster
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Posted - 2009.09.02 04:56:00 -
[41]
The only problem with Salvaging is that people consistently ***** about it as if their ********* are unable to drop from their mid section.
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Barrus Inane
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Posted - 2009.09.02 05:12:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Barrus Inane on 02/09/2009 05:12:18 PvP, working as intended, unless you have DEV or CCP in your avatar, it really means nothing. and that Ironfleet stuff that says it isn't an exploit, that is a far cry from saying that it is the best and only way it will be... read my post here...
Bloody whiney ninja carebears
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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.09.02 05:21:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Renarla on 02/09/2009 05:22:36
Originally by: A'ruhn
Maybe if we had a dedicated class of ships for salvaging we could circumvent that, just like we have specific ships for probing, mining, and so on and so forth.
The OPs suggestion and this would be great imo. CCP claims they want salvaging to be a 'profession' in the game but there is no ship designed to do so. Imo it should be a T2 destroyer, 8 hislots, no turret/launchers, reasonable cargo & speed, bonus to salvager range/success chance and maybe tractor range. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
Barrus Inane
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Posted - 2009.09.02 05:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Renarla
The OPs suggestion and this would be great imo. CCP claims they want salvaging to be a 'profession' in the game but there is no ship designed to do so. Imo it should be a T2 destroyer, 8 hislots, no turret/launchers, reasonable cargo & speed, bonus to salvager range/success chance and maybe tractor range.
Better idea, if they want to make salvaging a profession, have it so they can scan ABANDONED wreck fields! The only way right now any gd person can salvage is begging to come along on mission, in which nobody does. Bounties and all. Or they cannot tractor? WTF? The whole system is AGAINST a salvaging profession. Why is nobody flying out to my big massive fields I left behind earlier today? Cause nobody can find them!!!! Make them scannable, make wrecks property of owner, if concord prevents tractors from working, do the same to bloody salvagers. If the owner is on the grid, tough luck, they have the claim to them. Sit cloaked until they go through the gate and leave grid then pounce and claim them your own if you want to ninja. Nobody can argue the mechanics, ninja salvage is no longer the ultimate in carebear and salvaging would be a real profession!
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.09.02 20:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Gin G you know what the real problem is people
people that are either to stupid or ignorant to accept it for what it is
working as intended
Too stupid or ignorant to have the same gameplay preferences that you do? How does that work?
Or did you not read the fifty million times I've said "everyone knows the way it works right now?"
"Working as intended" is basically just another way of saying "I am not sentient." Because any thinking being would have realized that fact was never contested to begin with.
Originally by: Voridor Malevolence
Originally by: Ezevector
I think it's funny how you and your uncle get together with a webcam and (I'm just gonna go ahead and save the moderators some time by not writing the rest).
a little touchy arent you
Hey, insulting bull**** in, insulting bull**** out.
If that wasn't your intention, then forgive me, but these forums foster, shall we say, an atmosphere of wanton disrespect.
Quote: Clearly, he is someone who has next-to-zero pvp experience, thinking that as long as he is driving a Hyperion (which is "supposed" to be a great PVP battleship..........) with 3 repairers (WTF is that..?).
I was referring to the fact that CONCORD will grab your ears and have sex with your nostrils if you shoot at someone who's taking your salvage in highsec.
And they do that specifically because it's not considered theft and doesn't trigger an aggression flag.
Ergo, if salvaging isn't theft, salvaging isn't PvP either.
And your Hyperion has one hell of a captain. I didn't know strawmen could become capsuleers.
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Blackfyre 001
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Posted - 2009.09.02 21:07:00 -
[46]
I agree with the OP.
/signed
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.02 23:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ezevector
But seriously. Look at the forums again and tell me this argument is over. You may deny that the argument is valid, but face it, it's happening anyway. The people who think the status quo needs to be changed are still going to think that no matter how many times you say "it's the status quo." You may think it's wrong for them to be arguing, but they are arguing. And they will continue to do so.
That's real life for you.
people in real life argue that we shouldn't use vaccines, but we do anyway. you can argue your point as much as you like. CCP is going to ignore you though. ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords! |
Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.02 23:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ezevector
I was referring to the fact that CONCORD will grab your ears and have sex with your nostrils if you shoot at someone who's taking your salvage in highsec.
And they do that specifically because it's not considered theft and doesn't trigger an aggression flag.
Now if people would just accept this tidbit and move on.
CCP has already commented in half a dozen threads about this.
Either salvage it yourself, stop complaining or use the "Cancel Subscription" button. Stop plastering the forums with more useless threads as if we don't have enough crap already.
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Gad'ui
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Posted - 2009.09.03 08:22:00 -
[49]
Pilot "hey you in the cormorant, I'm not done with that yet....HEY, I said I'm not done with that yet"
*locks weapons to the cormorant and fires*
CONCORDE shows up CONCORDE "AYE you just killed a pilot!" Pilot "Ya well I was clearly tractoring that wreck in to salvage it and he tried to salvage it" CONCORDE "Well, its space junk why do you all the sudden have ownership of it" Pilot "If it were space junk why would he try to salvage it before me?" CONCORDE "Cause...GO BACK TO WOW"
*Concorde wtf pwns the Pilot*
Draw your own conclusions
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.03 09:39:00 -
[50]
Seppuku? So if we disagree we're supposed to kill ourselves?
Jesus... you're wrong in the head.
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Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
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Posted - 2009.09.03 17:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gerry Mack The whole CCP standpoint can be summed up in 3 words, "Need for speed". Thousands of pieces of detrius floating around in a server take up a bit of otherwise useful space.
I would even consider a 15 minute timer when 'your' salvage AND loot turn from yellow to white. That might even speed up the removal of the garbage.
IAWTP, except the timer should be more along the lines of one hour, given there are a lot of solo mission runners out there who fight with their combat ships and come back with salvagers after. (I use dual accounts: Fighter and salvager simultaenously)
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:34:00 -
[52]
A free bump for the only sound suggestion in regards to salvage mechanics.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:00:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kerfira on 05/09/2009 21:00:44
Originally by: Fille Balle A free bump for the only sound suggestion in regards to salvage mechanics.
Sound except for one (very important) issue....
No-one has yet presented any good arguments why current mechanics should be changed!
All the arguments, including that of the OP, goes from the premise that mission salvage is the rightful property of the mission runner.
Now, CCP has EXPLICITLY said that mission running profit should NOT be higher! This can be read by this post from CCP Prism X:
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to increase high-sec mission grinding [income] any further.
Highlighted the important part. The '[income]' is added by me for clarification.
If anything, it should be made much easier for other people to get at the wrecks created by mission runners, ie. probably make wrecks scanable.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fille Balle A free bump for the only sound suggestion in regards to salvage mechanics.
Sound except for one (very important) issue....
No-one has yet presented any good arguments why current mechanics should be changed!
Here's one:
Training up for a salvage boat takes very little time, and there's no risk. The rewards are very good for very little effort. This is goes against the very priciples of eve.
Originally by: Kerfira All the arguments, including that of the OP, goes from the premise that mission salvage is the rightful property of the mission runner.
If anything, it should be made much easier for other people to get at the wrecks created by mission runners, ie. probably make wrecks scanable.
I agree, wrecks should be probable. This would make salvaging the profession it should be, not the "invade other people's deadspace" profession. There are loads of wrecks our there that never get salvaged because a lot of people don't bother salvaging them. After the mission is handed in, there is currently no way to find these wrecks.
However, I'm sure the would be an uproar if it was changed to this as it currently stands, so I think this suggestion is a good compromize.
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