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Natural CloneKiller
T-Cells Moar Tears
27
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Posted - 2012.06.02 19:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
What do people think of the new War Mechanics.
Personally i think they suck for the following reasons:
Wars are now a bit of a free for all - Alliances and corps just jump on the back of a war so they can in the main have free targets. They don't care for the war they just want a few high sec WT's.
War's only cost the aggressor but lets face it we won't dec the big alliances as much, we'll dec more smaller ones. This is going to reflect on that player base being war deced more and more.
Mercs are going to go out of busines in High Sec. No longer is it viable to pay a merc when you can just accept all the corps/alliances who want a free war dec.
Someone generally might want to go to war with another corp...so they do....only to find in 2/3 days another 10 corps have just join to get free Wars. This means people will war dec less.
Im sure the concequences of these changes were though through in more detail than this, but in my opinion...poor decision on the new dec system.
Don't think it will do what CCP have been telling us it will do in blogs.
Sorry: - 1
Form me.
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Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
147
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Posted - 2012.06.02 21:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
People want wars so let them have those. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
73
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Posted - 2012.06.02 22:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Waaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah. I can't war dec 30k different people for 100m a week and camp Jita all day.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH |
LooknSee
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2012.06.02 22:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Waaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah. I can't war dec 30k different people for 100m a week and camp Jita all day.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Sounds to me like you just miss Osoggur gate. |
Memran
Malum Crusis The Ghost Army
0
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Posted - 2012.06.02 23:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree that the new war system is not a good idea at all.
We basically have 2 main situations: 1) Agressor declares war, and the defenders stay docked. 2) Defenders begin collecting lots and lots of allies, and teh agressors stay docked.
Maybe there should be a limit to the number of allies? Maybe there should be some increasing cost to the defender with each additional ally? RR needs fixing. (No 'maybe' here...)
I don't know how to get fun fights these days. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. |
Aedan Vals
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
1
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Posted - 2012.06.03 02:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
since i don't give a damn let me quote the name of your alliance:
more tears!!
now tell me where does it hurt? |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
225
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Posted - 2012.06.03 03:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Couldn't the people looking to wardec someone for pvp, just war dec the people looking to get a free wardec and cut out the middle man corp that doesn't want pvp?
Or would that be too much to expect people wanting pvp to want that against someone else wanting pvp |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
626
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Posted - 2012.06.03 04:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
The new war reports do an absolutely fantastic job of showcasing how utterly meaningless a war declaration from a nullsec alliance is.
I kind of get the impression that the only reason TEST and GSF declared war on BEEP was to make it impossible for their own members to fly into highsec.
But yes the cost scaling formula is literally broken and the ally system turns every war into a war against every single merc and general corp ******* in highsec and it's dumb. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
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Posted - 2012.06.03 04:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
What CCP has done is introduce the dreaded "PvP Flag" (since some are more equal than others, only for people who wants it rest is forced), which by the sound of it is what the whole "dec + merc" thing boils down to. |
W1ckd Munch
Validation Error Damned Nation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.04 03:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Natural CloneKiller wrote: They don't care for the war they just want a few high sec WT's.
Perhaps I misunderstood the purpose of previous war decs by hisec war dec corps against null sec alliances? I honestly thought it was getting a "few high sec WTs."
Granted, there were always some war decs that were the result of nullsec politics, where one consortium paid a merc corp or alliance to interdict hisec access for another nullsec alliance. But these seemed to be the exception. I don't see how the new system has changed the basic fact stated by the OP (above), except that perhaps now it's the aggressor rather than the defender that is complaining this time.
People will always complain, and so none of this matters.
Perhaps a limit on the number of alliances that join the defender can be implemented when neutral logi gets fixed.
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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
54
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Posted - 2012.06.04 03:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
You can't dec a corp without him possibly mustering friends to kill you now? well damn. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
627
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:You can't dec a corp without him possibly mustering friends to kill you now? well damn. That's not actually what happens, no actual friends are involved, just 20 random corps like mine who are out to cause as much difficulty for people as possible. It's a bad system that functionally allows the defender have an infinite number of corps wardec the attacker for free and as an attacker you have literally no means to respond to it.
It makes declaring war in the first place tantamount to suicide for any corp or alliance that isn't a dedicated highsec wardec corp. It's made wars over legitimate grievances between similar types of corps totally impossible as the defender can for no cost get people like Moar Tears, God Squad and The 0rphanage involved without having to pay a single isk. It's just not a viable tool for anyone who isn't completely geared towards constant war against people who outnumber them.
Wars between random generic highsec corps did used to happen, they weren't super common but they did exist, now they don't and wars are completely the realm of dedicated wardec corps.
CCP had claimed that they wanted to change wardecs from something that was used almost exclusively for mutual wars and griefing into a more utilized system that actually had utility for the general population of highsec, but the new system has had the exact opposite effect because why would you pay money to declare war on someone who can then infinitely escalate the war in the favor for no cost while you have no way to respond to it at all? How many highsec corps would actually want to put themselves in that situation?
The patch notes are just a laundry lists of reasons not to declare war. |
Griznatch
Xicron Syndicate Tus Network
142
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Posted - 2012.06.04 15:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I hear low sec is nice this time of year I used to have a clever sig but I lost it. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1623
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Posted - 2012.06.04 16:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
The wardec system in general is great.
It's the ally system that needs work.
The indiscriminate acceptance of every applicant into a war means that mercenaries can't actually get paid. This can be countered by either Concord fees to the hiring of mercs, or placing limits on the number of allies so that a defender has to actually make a choice. This has the added advantage of limit ally spam where an attacker can potentially be overwhelmed by allies.
The merc market can further be improved by allowing defenders to post offer amounts with their aid requests, allowing mercs to sort and filter for those contracts which would pay. The defender could be protected by allowing them to set "win" conditions for the mercenaries, so that they only get paid if they achieve their goals.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
74
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Working as intended. |
Sokor Loro
Fweddit
41
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Posted - 2012.06.04 19:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
No. Way. A Moar Tears member whining that they can't wardec thousand member alliances and camp jita? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1625
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Posted - 2012.06.04 19:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:No. Way. A Moar Tears member whining that they can't wardec thousand member alliances and camp jita? Someone didn't read the post. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
133
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Natural CloneKiller wrote:Wars are now a bit of a free for all - Alliances and corps just jump on the back of a war so they can in the main have free targets. They don't care for the war they just want a few high sec WT's.
You say that like you expect high sec wars to be strategic, somehow. No fights over territory, no fights over resources, just getting on the KM.
Are you that naive, or just a noob? High-sec wars are a joke, started by people who wouldn't last in low or null. Always been that way, always will be. |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
738
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Posted - 2012.06.05 06:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
just dealing with my first wardec since the change ... and reckon it's brilliant for the little guys. My alt's corp got decced, just coz they were killing a few ppl from one corp in w-space (ya, w-space where ya can kill anyone anytime anyhow), and now they have a half dozen 'allies' including a few very large hisec griefer corps.
Now the group that decced them are gonna have real trouble doing anything bear-like in hisec. Not our problem :-)
Also got a bundle of 'merc' offers, but why would I pay people when I can get hundreds of hisec griefers killing my enemies for free. I guess it's not working how some of the habitual hisec deccers had hoped, but others are getting a free ride on the gravy train of other ppl's wardecs. adapt, and adjust. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.06.05 07:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
I genuinely love the new system. No longer can 1 man corp war dec 100 man corp for the bargain price of 2 mil a week. Doing hit and runs on the new guys in their retrievers until the 100 man corp get pissed off and pay up. Anyone can join the DEFENDER for free; that's also awesome. 5 man corp of friends who just started up and get dec'd by 100 man corp can now very quickly turn the tables. And the 100 man corp who just tried to bully the little guy are getting force fed their own medicine. At their own expense no less. As for costing the defenders for allies? Why should it cost someone who never wanted war in the first place?
And Katja are we supposed to be impressed by you demeaning attitude towards high sec war? There's nothing wrong with it. People play this game for fun not to make imaginary money or collect imaginary goods. |
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DurrDurrDurr
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
9
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
There's a PL dude who is an allied defender in almost 600 wardecs right now.
The ally system is broken; there are too many people jumping onto every wardec bandwagon they can find for free. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
54
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Posted - 2012.06.13 05:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Red Teufel wrote:You can't dec a corp without him possibly mustering friends to kill you now? well damn. That's not actually what happens, no actual friends are involved, just 20 random corps like mine who are out to cause as much difficulty for people as possible. It's a bad system that functionally allows the defender have an infinite number of corps wardec the attacker for free and as an attacker you have literally no means to respond to it. It makes declaring war in the first place tantamount to suicide for any corp or alliance that isn't a dedicated highsec wardec corp. It's made wars over legitimate grievances between similar types of corps totally impossible as the defender can for no cost get people like Moar Tears, God Squad and The 0rphanage involved without having to pay a single isk. It's just not a viable tool for anyone who isn't completely geared towards constant war against people who outnumber them. Wars between random generic highsec corps did used to happen, they weren't super common but they did exist, now they don't and wars are completely the realm of dedicated wardec corps. CCP had claimed that they wanted to change wardecs from something that was used almost exclusively for mutual wars and griefing into a more utilized system that actually had utility for the general population of highsec, but the new system has had the exact opposite effect because why would you pay money to declare war on someone who can then infinitely escalate the war in the favor for no cost while you have no way to respond to it at all? How many highsec corps would actually want to put themselves in that situation? The patch notes are just a laundry lists of reasons not to declare war.
well those are the risks. if you want to wardec shouldn't you want more targets anyways? and you can always surrendur or disband? |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
49
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Posted - 2012.06.14 09:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
There should definitely be a limiting factor on the number of allies (max number of allies a defender can have, max number of people you can become allies with, isk cost that rises with the number of allies, or something), or barring that the aggressors should be allowed to escalate with their own allies (again with a limiting factor, maybe one aggressor ally per two defender allies). As far as justifying it goes, I see it as a "the enemy of my enemy" kind of thing, so if corp x becomes an ally of a defender in a war, then enemies of corp x may decide to ally with the aggressor |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.06.14 12:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
DurrDurrDurr wrote:There's a PL dude who is an allied defender in almost 600 wardecs right now.
The ally system is broken; there are too many people jumping onto every wardec bandwagon they can find for free. What's wrong with that? these guys decided they wanted to go to war, they just got one more enemy than they planned. |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
103
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Posted - 2012.06.14 21:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
High PVP is about targets, more allies = more targets.
How is it a bad thing?
The unlimited allied system is working as intended.
Now you have the ability to pvp with more people. And the defenders receive protection.
Everyone is happy.
Like I say: Working as Intended. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
55
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Posted - 2012.06.16 21:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:High PVP is about targets, more allies = more targets.
How is it a bad thing?
The unlimited allied system is working as intended.
Now you have the ability to pvp with more people. And the defenders receive protection.
Everyone is happy.
Like I say: Working as Intended.
I agree. war is war. and if peeps don't like it hell vote for making all of eve 0.0 |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
2
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Posted - 2012.06.18 14:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:I agree. war is war. and if peeps don't like it hell vote for making all of eve 0.0
and then ALL of eve can stay posed up or docked up, shitting they're pants while i stay cloaked up in that system. huzzah, fine with me |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
144
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Posted - 2012.06.19 11:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
It does seem to have some foul mechanics to it but it is better than what we had before - for those who couldn't fight wars well.
I still recall having it explained and the first thing went through my mind is that hub campers will love this. No more wardec fees, simply piggy back on anyone who's been wardec'd and you can get plenty of targets for no cost.
That is a problem mechanic too - A corp gets wardec'd and allows for assistance. They then wardec the aggressors OOC RR/idny corp which those who helped them now assist. So you have a group supposedly helping you who is also now a hostile - at the same time and this is legitimate/legal. /boggle
It does remove some of the tactical side of things that used to be handy and it also hurts the mercs though that's not as big an issue as messed up mechanics.
I'd guess it needs some checks and balances added to it but I sure as hell do find it better than what we had before, just not quite right yet.
Maybe some game-based fees for accepting help, limits on those that can help - how many they are allowed to hep blocking of offers to different groups if they conflict or the like... Some stuff adjusted but that is a CCP style thing to look at. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
148
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
What the hell is anyone doing in highsec anyway? Unless you're a total noob, staying there is pretty lame. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Eternum Praetorian
True Creation
811
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Posted - 2012.06.23 21:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
With the exception of Memran, all of you, every last one of you, are either bias, bored or strait up chicken ****.
God forbid that CCP and the CSM's band together to formulate a meaningful wardec system that does not support griefing, that does not kill the merc side of the game, that does not support the agendas of aggressors or defenders... you know, a system that is just GOOD GAMING?? You are all so tied up in what you want, that you do not bother to look at the big picture from a purely developmental standpoint.
The wardec system that we had sucked. This version sucks. The plans they have in the next expansion (from what I heard so far) will not change either of these facts.
So what is the point arguing about it? For years the lone griefer got what they wanted, and now the nooblet mission runners are getting what they want instead. And all the while Eve Online becomes more and more like every other MMORPG on the internet. But the only people who are aware of it are the old timers who barely log in anymore. So meh.
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