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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2012.06.02 20:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well first off I want to say i am happy with the new changes and attention that CCP has done with FW. To be honest it is one of the best places to find good pvp and not just dropping caps left and right. The new changes have brought people to the game. But there is still alot of problems that i feel CCP has not addressed that will give certain sides a massive disadvantage when it comes to warefare. Especially with system station lockouts and control. That being said I do like the idea of system station lockouts but there are issues that should be addressed first. Below is a list of problems that will continue to give certain sides disadvantages. Some being more of a problem but all combine together to create a big problem. I will give you examples to back up my reasoning.
1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion. For example a caldari militia member can create a toon and with 1 weeks training put that toon in a Condor and afk plex any of the gallente plexes that are out there. We thought that Manticore mission running was unfair they can now get 3 toons put them in majors which is the most lp per hour and literally afk farm plexes. They complain about Damps WHO CARES does nothing to you. This guy on the KM below was in a major plex and there where spawns already happening but look that the damage it did to him. The guy was still 98% shields when i got to him and he fought me still. For a gallente we could not even survive with a t1 frig to make it to the button let alone run the timer. (Not to crap on this player just an example).
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13530894
This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers.
2. Most players joining are Caldari and 0.0 players coming in wanting to keep using Jita. With the new patch it has attracted attention and people are joining but lets look at the numbers. Right now there are 8,651 Caldari militia and 6,542 Gallente militia. As you can see the Caldari have gotten alot more players then gallente have but most of these are PVE farming players in my opinion. Though to be fair alot are coming into pvp most are just farmers because lets face it hell i can make a toon in a week and afk farm plexes in a back water system. I am going to be fair in saying that the Caldari militia are plexing and taking systems close to home. But look at the numbers. In many cases plexing is not as much fighting as it is running at the first sight of an enemy militia. For example I was in Hallenen yesterday with 2 other corp mates. We where in 2 ruptures and 1 cynabal. There was a gang of Caldari in frigs and dessys numbering about 15. who just ran when we would try to engage them. Now to be fair if they thought we had more numbers then i can understand that but we didn't and chased them for several systems. I mean hell i would have taken on that and more with what they had. Now to not go on further I will stop here and give you my conclusion.
CCP should not be consentrating on the Plexing bug first TBO. The main problems are the NPC's. Personally I like the level of difficulty that the gallente have with plexes is fair. But please address this to everyone. Make Gallente and Ammar plexes harder. This will take care of your 1 week old alts farming lp like crazy. To be clear I don't mind the jamming or missle spams as long as it is a difficult for them in our plexes and Ammar plexes. Right now as we stand The gallente are being outplexed 4000+ vp per day and higher by NONE pvp players and pvp players. If you Addressed the issue of NPC's it would even the playing fields. We simply do not have enough people willing or enough people period to keep afk farmers from our systems let alone chase plexers all over when they refuse to fight us and just plex. I can understand Ammar and Gallente running because you can not fight in those plexes properly but minmatar and caldari can with ease. As proven with the KM above. CCP address this ISSUE. This is not a bashing thread on the caldari or minmatar by any means but you have to admit on all sides that CCP has given massive advantages to certain sides on this issue. And yes it does relate heavily now that the new changes have come in. Before the gallente where taking systems even when it did not matter with NPC disadvantage because we worked very hard for that and that goes to certain players with that. But now it is not just about system control as it is farming. Gallente will not have any systems if this keeps going and some gallente do nothing but plex to slow it down. NOT WHY WE JOINED CCP. I did not join to plex all day.
Dopified
Please all feel free to respond and let CCP know what you think about this. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2012.06.03 02:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points.
Very true we can run plexes in t1 frigs. But you neglect to mention that we can not do this in Major plexes and in med this can not be done afk unless you fully fit out a dual rep cap stable frig and only in med plexes. Again no pvp. If you can please put forward the Ship and Fit with instruction on how to orbit. I would like to see explanation and evidence instead of half truths and misleading information. Someone saying you can run caldari plexes in t1 frig easy does not mean ALL the plexes only the minors.
Gallente Minor- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Med- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Major- T1 frig afk YES
Caldari Minor- T1 frig Afk Repper cap stable YES Caldari Med- T1 frig Afk Reppers and Cap stable fitted for plexing only YES Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL NO
Again i have given evidence above. This is why the Gallente are losing the battle for systems |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2012.06.03 17:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.
And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not.
I like the idea but I think it still will not address the imbalace of how easy the NPC's are. I can understand because you dont want to lose the Manticore mission running if the NPC's actually became harder. Second the ability for you to fight in a major plex in a frig is still another advantage that caldari hold over Gallente. Again good idea about killing all the spawns but I dont think this addresses the issue of imbalance. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2012.06.03 17:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.
Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.
On this issue I can not agree more with you. Defensive plexing needs rewards. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2012.06.03 17:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost. And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.
Damar you can not be more wrong about this topic and I know that you dont want to give up the NPC advantage. I tried to fit up the Incursus which has a chance after the patch. Before the changes to it NO WAY. I rigged it to kenetic missile damage and dual repped it also making it cap stable. Went in and watched. NOT POSSIBLE AFK. Let alone making a new toon and going out and tanking our plexes without skills is not fair which is why i am asking for balance. You say it is possible so be it but you still do not address the Major imbalance that we have to Massively tank a ship to do them and we cannot fight in a major outpost because you are perma jammed let alone taking so much damage already from missile spam. Again half truths saying we can do it in incursus but as Julius pointed out must have a very Skilled toon if this is even possible. It used to be that the caldari rats did Kenetic missile damage and the rails where thermal damage. I have noticed that the rats now do thermal damage missiles as well as Kenetic damage missiles. Very hard to tank both kinds of damage.
For your second comment again NO evidence to prove this point. As stated this is not a bashing post but a post where i want people to being evidence with thier statment. On both your comments you have no provided anything as far as evidence. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2012.06.03 17:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Every faction has they own way to do things, that is just good for EVE.
If you want to afk orbit button then join you alt to militia where you can do it.
I actually like this post BM. You have at least admitted the unfair advantage of your side. Your opinion is that you want it to stay that way and I am of another. But at least you admit it. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2012.06.04 08:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Actually I haven't used a manticore for missions in like....2 years? (Tried it once or twice did not like) Its far too slow I prefer a tengu. Pull your head out of your ass.
My apologies I should have said "caldari militia" instead of "you" when addressing the manticore issue. Secondly this does not change the fact that there is still and advantage to one side. I will also add that I can see how the caldari side would want to retain that advantage. In reference to your last comment I can only see that your nasty behavior has come from one incident. I do remember wanting to fight 3v3 and you had the advantage in the fight. I do remember that you would not engage when you thought we had 2 falcons with us but did not. I did not even see anyone else with us. Yes i laughed because that was hilarious being accused of having 2 falcons when we did not and i did not see how you could of come to that conclusion. But in all fairness you would have laughed at us too if we said the same. The comment needs to be turned around I honestly have no idea why you are so bitter with me. Comments like this are really rediculus when i had no intention of getting personal.
I am trying to have ccp look at this and realize it is a problem. The alts that just rake in the LP are rediculus. Making npc's harder for minmatar and Caldari to deal with is the only solution that will take care of alot of those problems of players just creating extra toons to speed tank for lp. But it can also be argued by some that there is no problem with speed tanking for lp and that is what FW should become. The march of the alt armies. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 16:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wrote this forum post in response to a problem that has come up due to the new expansion. My only position with this post was not to bash but to get this problem known to CCP. NPC's have been imbalanced for a long time but have become a serious problem not just for the LP market. I see the problem that gallente will not hold thier systems thus we will be very limited in our ability to base our ships and fight good fleet fights. Now in saying that we are plexing hard and trying to fight this but there is only so much we can do against alt plexers period.
For CCP again i will say I love the expansion and what you guys have done. I don't think that this issue was seen as a big problem when designing the expansion. But unfortunitly it has become one IMO. Again my intentions where to inform not bash and if any of my comments came across as such I sincerely apologies for doing so.
Lets get this CLEAR gents for those who do bash. This expansion revived FW PVP. Before the patch I can say on comms and chats that people COMPLAINED to no end how bad pvp was,that there was not much. Funny thing was we still had very high kill rates at the time but people wanted more. Some left for 0.0 hoping to find this BUT ALMOST ALL CAME BACK because they realized that FW was still one of the best places for pvp. This expansion has given us exactly what we wanted more PVP. and for this THANK YOU CCP. CCP should be told they solved this problem perfectly.
On a personal note just saying that you are aware of the problem and are trying to fix this during the winter when you get your manpower back is awesome. This lets me know for one that you see it and acknowledge it and second you have given us a time frame that i will not post on my calander but about a time in which we can maybe see changes and yes i know it will be next year but that is better then nothing. I plan on playing this game till they shut it down. I guess being in the dark not knowing what CCP thinks or is planning makes people think nothing is happening.
Maybe for a short term solution. Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. To the level that the caldari have in thier plexes. This would solve the problem in the short term until you guys address it in the long run. In all honesty EW NPC's are doing good. What makes it hard is the missile spams. This would solve the afk plexing problems of new alts. Just my two cents. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Dopified wrote: Maybe for a short term solution. Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. To the level that the caldari have in thier plexes. This would solve the problem in the short term until you guys address it in the long run. In all honesty EW NPC's are doing good. What makes it hard is the missile spams. This would solve the afk plexing problems of new alts. Just my two cents.
I'm sure the devs are smarter than me, but I see two potential short term solutions. 1. Yours: Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. 2. Require all NPCs in a plex be killed.
I have thought of that and saw Superchair's post about it. Good idea one problem i see is that the plex bug might come into affect. If they can not get it closed for normal purposes then maybe adding the change of killing NPC's to close it will be a catastophe. Just saying |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 17:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well. I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc
Bolster you have just proven what i am fighting for. Am i worried about the caldari farming lp NO. Lets say that if the caldari take all the gallente systems and we are now the losing faction could the gallente use afk plexing alts with ease as the caldari do to counter and start winning again. Absolutely not. You have just given us an explanation that is totally one sided. This is a catch 22 statement.
For further info take a look at the numbers caldari are outplexing by 200+ plexes a day more then anyone else. This is due to alt plexers that plex with no npc resistence and we as a militia try to kill them but they are to many and reship fast and are back out in seconds. We can not just spend all day chasing these guys. The ones that do stay and want to fight can because the npc's are a joke. My example of this is in my first post. |
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.
Bolster i see what you say but this only works when the NPC's are balanced and equally as hard for each side. Chatgris has pointed this out above.
But i also know you bolster we used to be corp mates and i know that you want to farm the lp and have a system to do so. I know you dont want that system to get harder so that you can keep farming the same way. Just as so many others wanted lp stores to stay the same because they had a system that gave them good income with the mission running. LP stores are much higher and thus you have to run 4 times as much to keep the same.
This post was about NPC's being equal and getting ride of the afk 1 week old plexing farmers that are clearly alts which we cannot compete with for system control. It is also about system control in which gallente and ammar are at a disadvantage. When one side can do something at ease in a war and the other cannot that affect the war as great as system lockouts that side will always win no matter what the other side with the disadvantage does. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
I read this then remembered you're an idiot
I stopped replying to idiots yesterday
Bolster i call it as it is man you know that about me. This is about farming for caldari as much as it is system control with ease. I know Caldari do not want this advantage to change. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
Morons like yourself post stupid things in which you did. If you want a constructive conversation then I am willing but you sir are an idiot who is mad.
You are absolutely right I am a MORON. Somehow this MORON was able to start a forum thread in which CCP is addressing as a problem and they have stated that. They have even posted in here which they have not posted in a vast majority of warefare and tactic's threads. But somehow this MORON was able to put up an arguement WITH EVIDENCE in which CCP and majority of people posting are agreeing is a problem. Yet after they posted this you argue against this. But i guess with me BEING A MORON i just don't understand the logic behind it. For now on bolster I will address myself as the IDIOT of FW.
Put everything aside bolster I enjoyed flying with you when you where in corp. I guess you dont have the same feelings about that as well to just blatantly call someone an IDIOT and MORON. Still think you WHERE a good guy when i flew with you. But posting that someone is a moron is a little extreme bolster. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 19:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 21:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint
Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem
So what are you implying Bolster? I have am having troubles seeing what you are trying to say about me. Just the Moron in me I guess. Maybe this
1. I dont plex? ="Dopified" victoryPoints="122654" But where are you on the list? Oh wait your not. But i do plex for a reason not to just decontest systems.
2. Because i am just carebearing? Dopified http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=672815 BolsterBomb http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=530431
My killboard is not impressive compared to most
Bolster when you where in XMETA your source of income was your pos's and planetary interaction which allowed you to fuel your pos's. When these got nerf you rage quit eve because your source of income was being crapped on. It was no longer as lucrative to make isk off of what you had set up and not destroy your standings with your other toons that have high SP so you quit. Now that it is in the works to change the NPC's in plexing so that it is not easy for brand new alts to run the plexes your source of income is being threatened again. You dont want you standings on your main toons to be hit by crashing them in militia so it is easy to have a no SP toon to tank the best plexes LP/HR. You have complained about standing before and wanted to be in militia. So this is threatening your source of income and you are no happy about it so you post against most players and CCP. THIS IS THE SAME AS BEFORE. This is why i posted what i did I CALL IT AS I SEE IT.
Bolster back in the day I brought you into XMETA when no other gallente corp would want to look at you. I advised Froz that you where a good guy. After doing so I took a ton of flack for bringing you in. People wanted you gone from militia so that you would not join thier fleets. I cannot tell you how many people private convoed me sent messages and told this to me on comms. They complained about Failed intel when scouting or just being annoying. I can tell you this you really know how to CRAP on people who have been good to you or just nice. Well i can say you just added another person to you long list of people who dislike you now. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 21:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.
I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity. A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage. But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.
Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage.
And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mutnin wrote: You seem to forget to notice the Gal Incursus guys lately running every plex type. You guys already whined and got ECM nerfed while we still have to deal with being perma damped much of the time, now you want them easier?
Hey I have an idea.. fly the proper ship to do the plexes and kill the NPC's..
As far as "numbers" in each Militia, you know just as well as anyone that that is a bunch of BS. There has always been crap tons of guys in Caldari Militia that have nothing to do with fighting and only join Militia NPC corp to farm high sec missions or FW missions because of no taxes.
You are really going to whine about Gal having lower numbers when yesterday I was in Nenn there was over 40 of you docked, I went to Enal and there was a gang of 15 or so and another 5 to 10 guys spread between system like Akadgi, Hikk.. That's not even counting any guys in Hey, Nis, Villi or Rak.
Active pilots are what count and now that Caldari is finally starting to get "close" to having same active numbers you already start whining that you can't compete because i't's no longer easy to just out blob us?
Funny we ask for the Damage on the rats to be even, not give us an advantage and yet we are accused of crying so it makes things easier for us? Oh wait we are wanting it to be even. Again another caldari who does not want to give up his advantage |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.
The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes.
I agree with it but maybe think that we stay with each races damage type seperately. For some like gallente they can not tank Explosive very well and thinking of that for the other militia's as well but missile spamming for all will deal the damage. But that would be the only change maybe not the Same rats if you meant one specific damage type. If that is not what you meant then i aggree with one type of rat that has the damage dealt the same for that militia it is dealing too. But i would say we need some kind of resistence in the plexes for when some are not on. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2012.06.05 00:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Again the lack of posting actual fits or evidence backing up the claim of certain parties just goes to prove how missleading and untruthful some people can be. You cannot solo Ammar missions or Gallente missions in a Stealth bomber. And in such a way ccp has rewarded our missions with more lp to kind of make up for that.
Secondly you have fully admitted there is an advantage on your side but argue for us to work harder at this. It makes a difference if you can run all 3 plex sizes in one ship and not just minors in a low sp thrasher pilot. But it is still argued by you that this is fair. Again evidence for our side that there is an imbalance and one side is disadvantaged greatly. I would say if they allowed the gallente militia to speed tank like you all do i would have 3 alts running plexes at the same time afk who cares if they get popped numbers prove i can just put them back out cheap. And same can be said if i want to go pvp i can just plex easy by speed tanking and not wasting ammo till a find a fight. You say we can use two alts well NO ONE IS DOING IT because no one thinks in thier right mind paying for two accounts is worth plexing one plex at a time.
Please get real with your arguements and provide at least some kind of evidence to back your claim on THIS TOPIC not another. You want another topic then post it in a new thread I will answer you there. |
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.
*climbs in his boat*
Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now
AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT
Well all i can say is you dont see things as aparently most people do. It is called a numbers game. If you can field a crap ton more plexers and keep them going as cheap as you guys can then you can do what is happening. Look at the numbers. Caldari are outplexing everyone by 3000-4000+ victory points a day and yes this is due in large to Alts with low sp running timers all over with no resistence. It does not matter if they are in backwater systems or Nenna. Same as any other war it is a numbers game and when you put up larger numbers like that you can not win no matter what. It is going to happen that we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened. I know it feels good to win but doing it without pvp or any resistence is pretty lame. Try getting out of your tanking interceptor and fighting for a change Bolster. Lets see you laugh when we destroy you some more. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2012.06.05 20:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cearain wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Kuehnelt wrote:Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs. ....no one reads..... Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me.
They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2012.06.05 21:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Julius I do like your plan with the timer. But i feel that the damage dealt in certain plexes should be or how it is dealt in certain plexes also needs to be addressed but i do like you plan with the timer.
Just to add on what if a defender is in the plex defensive plexing and a war target chases him out or pie do you think the timer should count back to 0? |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
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Posted - 2012.06.06 12:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote:
Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me.
They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN.[/quote]
You guys would just complain about something else not being fair. I still find it funny that in a few weeks since the patch Gals have gone from trolling Caldari because you expected to get a easy win after the FW update to complaining about losing and blaming it on NPC's.
You guys need to get off your asses and fight back. You guys are very lazy and unwilling to leave your blob behind.. That is why you are losing. The war front has changed and your blobs & sitting in 1 or 2 system with 30 or 40 of your closest buddies, will not help you.
The unexpected truth of the new plexing system is it has given a buff to smaller gang fighting, something Caldari has been doing for quite some time now. Caldari aren't running around with AFK condors farming plexes, winning the war with noob alts.. The bulk of Caldari's I see out are running minors in Dessies/frigs with PVP fits and fighting over plexes vs the few Gals that show up or local pies.
Gals on other hand sit in their home system do almost no defense and cry on forums about NPC's being unfair expecting to just undock 20 or 30 guys to chase a random noob, thinking that will win the war for them.
The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.[/quote]
Completely agree... we were rolling in a fleet of 8 BC or lower ships in nen area and we couldnt even get them to undock. and they complain about afk plex farmers.....0.o [/quote]
This is a pretty funny comment especially from a NC DOT group that has come to Caldari Militia and then super blobbed the Gal's. I mean well done for the attack boys but then you go and post up that we blob I mean come on WOW. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Commissar Veldt wrote:Whether or not one faction has the advantage over others, it doesnt seem to have stopped the Federation in having a great deal of success. You have managed to remove the State Protectorate entirely from Enaluri (and hold the system), capture numerous strategic station systems in Black Rise (and hold them) and can rally highly organised fleets to successfully defend/capture complexes. My point being that even if it is un-balanced, it cant be so much that it is stopping the disadvantaged side from not only participating, but also succeeding in Faction Warfare. I dont have a Gallente alt and have never captured Minmatar complexes so I can not say that dopfied is definately right or horribly wrong. I am sure that Faction Warfare and complexes can be improved further with more fixes/tweaks/adjustments on all sides but to treat it as a dramatically un-balanced feature of EVE is perhaps a bit too over the top? As I said, the Federation still get good results in Militia overall so hopefully CCP will take this into account before making any major changes.
I do hope this 'temporary re-balancing' removal of electronic warfare isnt the start of a new trend... Im sure nobody would enjoy all having to fly the same ship types into generic complex #03 to destroy the same NPC's/pilots who use the same turrets to hit for the same damage type just so we can all sit comfortably in the knowledge that we are all on a completely equal playing field... Dopified, you have made a fair point and CCP have obviously heard this argument quite a lot of times by the sound of it. I am sure there is room for some more changes in Faction Warfare (there always is right?) but I just think the evidence offered from killboards (QCATS recent achievement), systems contested/occupied and my own personal experiences in militia (getting raped on a regular basis by your pilots) says that this issue is perhaps being blown slightly out of proportion by the general militia forum populace?
Let me please add that I am not against having the EW re-balanced in complexes at all.
Anyway, from a Caldari point of view, there is one bonus to having EW removed from complexes... I can finally stop wasting a mid slot on a sensor booster. Extra Invul Field II anyone?
Veldt
I can understand your position on this and actually respect you for stating actual truths here. The point that I am trying to make is that it is unbalanced. It should not be the job of CCP to make it easier or harder for one side of faction warefare. No matter how little of an advantage or disadvantage you think it is. The advantage should always come from THE PLAYER. Some of us in militia have put forth an effort and have given ourselves the advantage by tactics and hard work. When it comes to plexes and NEW mechanics, when a caldari can run a major plex in a pvp fit t1 frig deep in gallente space or close turn around and be ready to fight us is unfair. Gallente cannot go into a caldari MAJOR plex with this and have the option of fighting afterwards or even in the plex as stated and shown in my first post. Lets also get it straight I have posted that EW NPC's are not the problem. I think they are a great idea. The problem is the incoming Damage for the gallente with missile spams. No matter how much we speed tank a major you take massive amounts of damage thus having very few options when fitting a ship to run plexes, thus in turn alot of people can not go out sit in a plex and when a fight comes along be ready to engage anytime. With station lockouts we cannot move past our lines and pvp effectively thus the reason why some of our guys dont go 2-3 jumps past thier home when plexing and pvping. STATION LOCKOUT MEANS WE CANNOT RESHIP EASY TO FIGHT WHEN YOU DO COME.
If the gallente start losing and it is shown that the caldari start winning in PVP and PLEXING would you advocate for the caldari to swap the plexing mechanics thus giving gallente speed tanking so that they can have an advantage and caldari to take massive missiles spams???? Is this what i am hearing? Again I do not think it is CCP's place to give advantages to one side or the other, it needs to be equal in all regards. The advantage SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYER ACHIEVED.
Veldt gets respect from me even though i am not on the same page with this idea. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it. If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced" The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing. I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others. You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems.......
Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch.
Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE.
So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this.
Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's
PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth? |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Dopified wrote:Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth? just on you
I guess because i was one of the only ones that thought nicely of you over here or was at least nice with how i treated you LMAO. On me. to funny |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's You are living in your own reality. I have already said afk plexing is stupid but you are not willing to admit your side is doing it almost as much as caldari. Only difference really is that your side has to shoehorn afk plexing to new permarunning repper incursus hull while caldari have more options for afk plexing. In both cases it does not matter what comes to challenge your plexing. If you are simply speed or repair tanking npcs without killing them, you are not in position to engage hostile vessels anyway.
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13530894
Again here is my evidence as stated in my first post and yes it was a good fight but look at the damage inflicted on him it did not change the fight at all. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie. You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF. You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC. I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.
You are correct in saying this and i agree with you 100%. This can be done in pvp ships. My origional arguement was that caldari and minmatar can do this with all three plex sizes in a pvp t1 frig.
And i quote from my first post
"This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers."
This is what i want changed. Thier ability to run all plexes in a t1 pvp frig give a massive advantage to a side because you can stay out in the field deep in enamy territory with one ship that can run easily or stay and fight because you are already set up. You also dont use ammo. The ammar and gallente cannot do this. I believe that this makes a difference in people plexing because they have the option of fighting pvp or running plexes for LP when no pvp is around. Yes the gallente want to pvp more then fight but if we could do this you would see more numbers doing it. You can run a minor med and major and keep going because all the respawns will hit right after the last plex is done. This makes a big difference because in one ship type you can keep running a systems plexes 24/7 all hours without reshipping. THIS MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE. |
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 17:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:
The great thing about plexes is they let you "choose" the fight you want to a certain degree by picking the plex you run & the ship you run it in. If you choose to run a plex in a ship that can't kill the NPC's then you are making a decisions to run from the fight before the fight ever comes to you.
I think the problem here is that people expect to have their cake and eat it to while being able to fly sub par ships for the job at hand. (ie most of guys complaining just want to farm plexes not actually fight)
The other night I was bored.. I decided I wanted to go dual box my two Drakes. I went to Nennamaila and I popped open a major plex to pick a fight in Gals home system. I shot the NPC's as they spawned and got some PVP mid way through killed 2 BC's played patty cake with their reinforcements and was ran off with about 2 mins on the timer.
IMO that was a successful plex run and I used the plex for it's intended purpose. I picked the ship(s) I wanted to fly, went to a busy system and used the plex mechanics to pick a fight.
People that are bitching and moaning that they can't run a major plex are quite simply just complaining because they can't easily play farmville. While the other side can. It doesn't matter that one side can or can't run majors in a t1 frig.. The end of the day you are just farming and abusing a game mechanic to farm LP's.
If you want to ***** about Plexes, then the only valid argument is bitching about the EW from NPC's in majors. Aside from NPC's & their EW if you can't tank the damage or kill the NPC's then you are using the wrong ship for the job and you are likely there just to farm LP's. End of story.
(not directed at you specifically Cearain, but at everyone complaining they can't speed tank NPC's while the other side can)
You are correct in saying you can chose the fight you want in plexes. The arguement i made in my first forum post was that Gallente and Ammar can not do this with ease as the Minmatar and Caldari can. Again as stated and evidence shown we take alot of incoming damage in a fight. This matters when looking for pvp. A t1 frig that is running a major then turns around and is able to fight inside the major is somewhat of an advantage. I actually lost a firetail to a dram this way the npc's did nothing and the other pilot agreed with me. Funny how even alot of caldari are admitting this openly.
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