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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2012.06.02 20:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well first off I want to say i am happy with the new changes and attention that CCP has done with FW. To be honest it is one of the best places to find good pvp and not just dropping caps left and right. The new changes have brought people to the game. But there is still alot of problems that i feel CCP has not addressed that will give certain sides a massive disadvantage when it comes to warefare. Especially with system station lockouts and control. That being said I do like the idea of system station lockouts but there are issues that should be addressed first. Below is a list of problems that will continue to give certain sides disadvantages. Some being more of a problem but all combine together to create a big problem. I will give you examples to back up my reasoning.
1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion. For example a caldari militia member can create a toon and with 1 weeks training put that toon in a Condor and afk plex any of the gallente plexes that are out there. We thought that Manticore mission running was unfair they can now get 3 toons put them in majors which is the most lp per hour and literally afk farm plexes. They complain about Damps WHO CARES does nothing to you. This guy on the KM below was in a major plex and there where spawns already happening but look that the damage it did to him. The guy was still 98% shields when i got to him and he fought me still. For a gallente we could not even survive with a t1 frig to make it to the button let alone run the timer. (Not to crap on this player just an example).
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13530894
This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers.
2. Most players joining are Caldari and 0.0 players coming in wanting to keep using Jita. With the new patch it has attracted attention and people are joining but lets look at the numbers. Right now there are 8,651 Caldari militia and 6,542 Gallente militia. As you can see the Caldari have gotten alot more players then gallente have but most of these are PVE farming players in my opinion. Though to be fair alot are coming into pvp most are just farmers because lets face it hell i can make a toon in a week and afk farm plexes in a back water system. I am going to be fair in saying that the Caldari militia are plexing and taking systems close to home. But look at the numbers. In many cases plexing is not as much fighting as it is running at the first sight of an enemy militia. For example I was in Hallenen yesterday with 2 other corp mates. We where in 2 ruptures and 1 cynabal. There was a gang of Caldari in frigs and dessys numbering about 15. who just ran when we would try to engage them. Now to be fair if they thought we had more numbers then i can understand that but we didn't and chased them for several systems. I mean hell i would have taken on that and more with what they had. Now to not go on further I will stop here and give you my conclusion.
CCP should not be consentrating on the Plexing bug first TBO. The main problems are the NPC's. Personally I like the level of difficulty that the gallente have with plexes is fair. But please address this to everyone. Make Gallente and Ammar plexes harder. This will take care of your 1 week old alts farming lp like crazy. To be clear I don't mind the jamming or missle spams as long as it is a difficult for them in our plexes and Ammar plexes. Right now as we stand The gallente are being outplexed 4000+ vp per day and higher by NONE pvp players and pvp players. If you Addressed the issue of NPC's it would even the playing fields. We simply do not have enough people willing or enough people period to keep afk farmers from our systems let alone chase plexers all over when they refuse to fight us and just plex. I can understand Ammar and Gallente running because you can not fight in those plexes properly but minmatar and caldari can with ease. As proven with the KM above. CCP address this ISSUE. This is not a bashing thread on the caldari or minmatar by any means but you have to admit on all sides that CCP has given massive advantages to certain sides on this issue. And yes it does relate heavily now that the new changes have come in. Before the gallente where taking systems even when it did not matter with NPC disadvantage because we worked very hard for that and that goes to certain players with that. But now it is not just about system control as it is farming. Gallente will not have any systems if this keeps going and some gallente do nothing but plex to slow it down. NOT WHY WE JOINED CCP. I did not join to plex all day.
Dopified
Please all feel free to respond and let CCP know what you think about this. |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 20:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 02:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points.
Very true we can run plexes in t1 frigs. But you neglect to mention that we can not do this in Major plexes and in med this can not be done afk unless you fully fit out a dual rep cap stable frig and only in med plexes. Again no pvp. If you can please put forward the Ship and Fit with instruction on how to orbit. I would like to see explanation and evidence instead of half truths and misleading information. Someone saying you can run caldari plexes in t1 frig easy does not mean ALL the plexes only the minors.
Gallente Minor- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Med- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Major- T1 frig afk YES
Caldari Minor- T1 frig Afk Repper cap stable YES Caldari Med- T1 frig Afk Reppers and Cap stable fitted for plexing only YES Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL NO
Again i have given evidence above. This is why the Gallente are losing the battle for systems |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
225
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 03:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wait, you can't solo something afk in a PVP central MMO? Well god damn, lets get this fixed.
Trolling aside, NPCs need looking at. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 05:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP has tried squashing the timer bug for over 3 years but it keep reappearing in slightly mutated form .. issue is with the plex/timer abomination they created for FW, a mash-up of code from all over the place. Not sure plexes will ever be bug-free.
PS: Is missile spam in Caldari plexes really so heavy that an AB Frig can't solo some (there are spawn differences) majors .. Shakorite majors can speed tanked were it not for the +TP spam I think and they tend to use lighter ordnance thus hitting small/fast harder? |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 07:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:CCP has tried squashing the timer bug for over 3 years but it keep reappearing in slightly mutated form .. issue is with the plex/timer abomination they created for FW, a mash-up of code from all over the place. Not sure plexes will ever be bug-free.
PS: Is missile spam in Caldari plexes really so heavy that an AB Frig can't solo some (there are spawn differences) majors .. Shakorite majors can speed tanked were it not for the +TP spam I think and they tend to use lighter ordnance thus hitting small/fast harder?
Yes, it really is horrible. You have to use an AB caldari or gallente assault frigate to have a hope of getting it solo, and even those have a hard time if you go into one of the majors with neuting rats. Anything else gets eaten away. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 07:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.
And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 07:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.
Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending. |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 09:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes
AFK Dramiels? Free LP and Killmails! |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 11:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No
Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost.
And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started. |
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Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 11:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Every faction has they own way to do things, that is just good for EVE.
If you want to afk orbit button then join you alt to militia where you can do it. |
Jet Major
Eve Celestial Nomads
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 15:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.
Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.
I agree that some kind of incentive should be given to defensive plexing. I have a limited amount of time to play each day and, for that reason, when I am on my time must be productive. I have done defensive plexing and will continue to do so as I think it's the right thing for me to do for the Federation, however, it would be nice if FW pilots received something for their efforts GÇô hell IGÇÖd settle for a Federation Decoration awarded to FW pilots for defensive plexing - awarded after "X" number of hours of defensive plexing. |
Mirana Niranne
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns.
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 16:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Very simple!
Defensive plexing should put half the LP of the site directly into upgrading that system, and MAYBE half to the pilots that turn it back.
There should be more of a penalty for starting a site, and then tucking tail and running at the first sign of trouble. |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost. And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.
You can do it, but you sure as **** can't do it on a week old alt. You need good tanking skills and at least a few mil sp. Gallente majors can be soloed by week old alts. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
A few random points:
I like how PVE helps the total militia cause now. And I like how it pays the PvP'r and the PvE'r. I always thought that PvP focused players need a way to generate isk.
I don't like the idea that frigates can run majors so easily. It is not just imbalanced for Gallente FW. It is also imbalanced for me, because I use a much more expensive ship to do them. When I see a frig in a major... I want to shoot him myself! Fix this plz CCP. (Webbing agents should do the job)
I want to point out that Gallente and Caldari seam to be exchanging systems and status fairly evenly lately. Which means that Galls are doing just as much plexing as Caldari is. (I get tired of all the Caldari/PVE comments)
I'm slightly worried that FW will turn into a PVE grind, and will devolve into a membership decline. SOV wars in lo-sec also feels wrong imo. Expect to see more cap ships soon...
I had a brief thought about Home systems. More LP in a Home station. More incentive to hold that system, etc. Harder to get locked out of. A place that never falls perhaps? It was just a thought, a couple nights ago. Might help keep moral up and membership confidence.
I have cap ships locked in a station. (And a ton of other ships) I would have to leave FW to access them, then rejoin. Kinda seams like a dumb mechanic. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.
And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not.
I like the idea but I think it still will not address the imbalace of how easy the NPC's are. I can understand because you dont want to lose the Manticore mission running if the NPC's actually became harder. Second the ability for you to fight in a major plex in a frig is still another advantage that caldari hold over Gallente. Again good idea about killing all the spawns but I dont think this addresses the issue of imbalance. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.
Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.
On this issue I can not agree more with you. Defensive plexing needs rewards. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost. And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.
Damar you can not be more wrong about this topic and I know that you dont want to give up the NPC advantage. I tried to fit up the Incursus which has a chance after the patch. Before the changes to it NO WAY. I rigged it to kenetic missile damage and dual repped it also making it cap stable. Went in and watched. NOT POSSIBLE AFK. Let alone making a new toon and going out and tanking our plexes without skills is not fair which is why i am asking for balance. You say it is possible so be it but you still do not address the Major imbalance that we have to Massively tank a ship to do them and we cannot fight in a major outpost because you are perma jammed let alone taking so much damage already from missile spam. Again half truths saying we can do it in incursus but as Julius pointed out must have a very Skilled toon if this is even possible. It used to be that the caldari rats did Kenetic missile damage and the rails where thermal damage. I have noticed that the rats now do thermal damage missiles as well as Kenetic damage missiles. Very hard to tank both kinds of damage.
For your second comment again NO evidence to prove this point. As stated this is not a bashing post but a post where i want people to being evidence with thier statment. On both your comments you have no provided anything as far as evidence. |
Sakkar Arenith
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
That is quite true, but its not just that amarr n gallente npcs are ****, which they are, its the fact that major can be soloed in frigs/AFs.
The NPCs in general need a buff there.
What id suggest is to simply place a number of stasis/neut/TP towers close to the buttons in mediums/major plexes.
While cruisers/BCs could still solo them with some effort, the solo stabbed AF or dramiel, wont.
That IMO is what would be both the easiest change and by far the most effective, not making taking plexes too demanding, but it would stem the tide of afk zero risk farmers |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 17:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Every faction has they own way to do things, that is just good for EVE.
If you want to afk orbit button then join you alt to militia where you can do it.
I actually like this post BM. You have at least admitted the unfair advantage of your side. Your opinion is that you want it to stay that way and I am of another. But at least you admit it. |
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Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.03 18:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mirana Niranne wrote:Very simple!
Defensive plexing should put half the LP of the site directly into upgrading that system, and MAYBE half to the pilots that turn it back.
There should be more of a penalty for starting a site, and then tucking tail and running at the first sign of trouble.
Like adding time back to the counter or completely resetting it, not simply stopping the timer. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
252
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 02:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't know. It only takes a day old afk alt to defensive plex as well. So... I guess in one case an afk alt gets LP and in the other case the afk alt does not.
In this case, "attacking" alts get LP where "defending" alts do not. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
265
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 03:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Super Chair wrote:Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.
And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not. I like the idea but I think it still will not address the imbalace of how easy the NPC's are. I can understand because you dont want to lose the Manticore mission running if the NPC's actually became harder. Second the ability for you to fight in a major plex in a frig is still another advantage that caldari hold over Gallente. Again good idea about killing all the spawns but I dont think this addresses the issue of imbalance.
Actually I haven't used a manticore for missions in like....2 years? (Tried it once or twice did not like) Its far too slow I prefer a tengu. Pull your head out of your ass.
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 08:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Actually I haven't used a manticore for missions in like....2 years? (Tried it once or twice did not like) Its far too slow I prefer a tengu. Pull your head out of your ass.
My apologies I should have said "caldari militia" instead of "you" when addressing the manticore issue. Secondly this does not change the fact that there is still and advantage to one side. I will also add that I can see how the caldari side would want to retain that advantage. In reference to your last comment I can only see that your nasty behavior has come from one incident. I do remember wanting to fight 3v3 and you had the advantage in the fight. I do remember that you would not engage when you thought we had 2 falcons with us but did not. I did not even see anyone else with us. Yes i laughed because that was hilarious being accused of having 2 falcons when we did not and i did not see how you could of come to that conclusion. But in all fairness you would have laughed at us too if we said the same. The comment needs to be turned around I honestly have no idea why you are so bitter with me. Comments like this are really rediculus when i had no intention of getting personal.
I am trying to have ccp look at this and realize it is a problem. The alts that just rake in the LP are rediculus. Making npc's harder for minmatar and Caldari to deal with is the only solution that will take care of alot of those problems of players just creating extra toons to speed tank for lp. But it can also be argued by some that there is no problem with speed tanking for lp and that is what FW should become. The march of the alt armies. |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 08:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dopified wrote:I am trying to have ccp look at this and realize it is a problem. The alts that just rake in the LP are rediculus. Making npc's harder for minmatar and Caldari to deal with is the only solution that will take care of alot of those problems of players just creating extra toons to speed tank for lp. But it can also be argued by some that there is no problem with speed tanking for lp and that is what FW should become. The march of the alt armies.
Alts rule the day everywhere but you should be happy. With alt armies, caldari LP value plummets (like minmatar already does) and thus pvp'ers have less isk to spend on war efforts, meaning gallente benefit from it.
Years have gone by, CCP has thrown you guys every possible bone you have asked with npc nerfs, Dominion Debacle, increased plex spawns after initial caldari conquest and numerous other things. And YET YOU STILL B.TCH AND MOAN ABOUT THINGS BEING UNFAIR!*
When will you be happy? When CCP removes Amarr/Caldari militias and declares you the winner with some random Scope newsreport?
*Had to resort to bolded and underline just to bring home the points of last three years of FW |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 08:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Because it is unfair. When one side can run the largest plexes with no skill alts in cheap ships and the other side can only do the same in skilled alts with not so cheap ships, that right there is a fundamental disadvantage. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
619
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 10:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
We also are looking into an issue that prevents FW complexes from despawning properly, which in turn prevents new sites from spawning until the next downtime. Estimated time for such changes is to have them out as soon as possible (sorry, can't give estimate though, still working on them as we speak).
Hope that helps a bit. |
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Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 10:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
But are you going to add missile spam to the races that currently don't? |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
619
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
No we aren't going to touch missile NPCs themselves. Ideally missile spam should be less of a problem, not aggravated by adding more of it, and that's an issue that still needs to be looked at, most likely during this winter.
We know it's far from perfect but that's all we can do in the current time frame. |
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Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
It is good to know that CCP is using minimal time effort to solve problems that are not even problems.
Real problems are somewhere else.
This whole problem does not even exists if players play EVE on right way. |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
170
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:...We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now. So you are still living in your own world and ignoring everything being said by the people subjected to your fancies? Speaking of fancies, what exactly is on the menu for the winter iterations?
The vast majority of people in FW wants to be rid of the idiocy of solo-frig-capping plexes and now you want to make it so easy that no rat shall ever again be killed except when farmed for tags .. how is that supposed to help anything game/fun wise?
You created an entirely new subset of rats for Incursions presumably to facilitate the use of the special AI and being able to tweak them ad nauseum without having to worry about every other John and Jane Doe rat in the database .. have you considered doing something similar for FW .. considering the increasing pressure to expand on FW to include pirate factions and what not the time/money would be well spent.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:We also are looking into an issue that prevents FW complexes from despawning properly, which in turn prevents new sites from spawning until the next downtime. Estimated time for such changes is to have them out as soon as possible (sorry, can't give estimate though, still working on them as we speak). So once more unto the breach, eh?
You have tried squashing the timer bug version one through umpteen since Empyrean Age went live to no avail. Isn't it time you looked at why/how that timer you crammed into what is essentially exploration encounter sites keeps bugging out instead of going through the motions again hoping for a different outcome (cue definition of insanity)?
Do yourselves a favour and get rid of them! The timers are as loved by FW monkeys as tower/SBU grinds is by null ditto (read: not a lot, in case you didn't know).
Replace it with making killing spawns a requirement and time the waves to roughly equal the 10, 15 and 20 minute timesinks FW "enjoys" currently. Add to some of the waves depending on number of people present and give the rats some insane shield/armour recharge if engaged from XX km to prevent the obvious 'kite from opposite side' easy mode = you not help keep the tags market healthy, eliminate the solo capping problem, make the LP payout actually require :effort:, make plexing a team effort and get to ignore the question of FW AI for another 4 years. Note #1: Have an ever so slight upwards scaling of LP to lessen the 'hit' of having to share .. gangs should not be mandatory, but beneficial. Solo'ing still to be possible in appropriately sized/powered ship. Note #2: Defensive "plexing" would merely require one to run an attacker out after which spawns slowly reset (not getting paid so forcing timesink on defenders is just plain evil/wrong). Spawning is stopped by entering the XX km range thus preventing capture -> FightFightFight! Note #3: Expand warp-in arrival sphere to full regional/normal gate size to cut down on effectiveness of camping it or instate a size check on warp-to and remove acceleration gates completely .. latter prevents neutral/pirate/enemy interference on gate so may not be viable/wanted.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hope that helps a bit. Like pissing ones pants to keep warm |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Lot's of bitching Yeah and let's also institute a rule that allows militia members to only fly that race of ships as well. That will fix all of FWs problems. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
620
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you. |
|
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
May I ask what "personal time" means, more exactly? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1012
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
It astounds me how the usual suspects in the Caldari militia countinue to say things that everyone, including themselves, knows aren't true.
There has never been a CCP bias towards the Gallente militia. The Caldari militia have, from the very first day of Empyrean Age, always had a large number of advantages over the Gallente that everyone on both sides are aware of, so it seems entirely counterproductive and pathetic for people to pretend that things were somehow different. From day one, Caldari had a significant numerical advantage and have not, for a single second since then, ever had less members than any of the other militia. Timezone distribution of plexes has always favoured the Caldari due to the large number of European members they have. Caldari plexes are significantly more difficult to run than Gallente plexes and this is a known fact.
Even more importantly, the Caldari militia started with Duty. corp, one of the most effective non-nullsec mercenary corporations in the game at the time, who had done a significant amount of homework on the test server. The early successes of Caldari plexing was based entirely upon tactics developed by Duty. that were passed on to people such as 22BDU. There has, of course, been a concerted revisionist effort by certain newer Caldari organisations to write Duty. and its members out of FW history, because Toushi Kimura was a smart man and pulled Duty. out of STPRO when he saw what a self-aggrandising clusterfuck it had turned into.
The funny thing about the usual Caldari militia voices is that they were curiously silent on the subject of FW iteration and balance when they were winning the territory war. Any suggestion of making plexes timezone-neutral to fix the downtime shuffle were viciously opposed. Caldari militia members cried crocodile tears about such things as the timer bug and diagonal standings but were perfectly happy to use them when it was beneficial to their cause. In fact, it may be remembered that the Caldari militia captured over half of Minmatar space by using the diagonal standings glitch to avoid plex aggro, allowing the beleagured Amarr militia to assault the control bunkers. Of course, this tactic eventually backfired hilariously when the outraged Minmatar militia snatched back all their territory and then proceeded to engage in the brutal, pitiless circle-stomp on 24IC's crying face that still continues to this day.
What astounds me is that the Caldari are still winning, and yet they're also still complaining that there's an unfair imbalance towards the Gallente. Presumably the only balance they're actually interested in is one that's tipped in their favour. Mane 614
|
Salicaz
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you.
Any right minded person appreciates this kind of effort. <3
However, rat imbalance should have been adressed before over-the-top penalties to please the null lite crowd (station lock out). |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
The only type of plex that I have not run is the Amarr line. Cal/Gal and Minny plex can all be done in frigs solo. All of them. Just because you are incapable of looking into types of damage to be done (gun/missile) and make an effort to defeat the racial EWAR doesn't mean it is impossible. Gal rats in a major plex will destroy any frig you catch in a few volleys, if you don't kill them first. That is the point of FW. For you to catch them in the plex and kill them. Not for you to sit in station complaining on the forums that the rats aren't doing your job for you.
Or is that what you want? For the EWAR to be so bad that you need a fleet of cap ships to capture a major compound? |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you.
I do not like the way you started to 'fix' fw, you made new buggy feature over old buggy features wihtout fixing anything.
Your devs do not know even how to sort % numbers on militia office.
NPC on plexes is the least problem of bugs / working as intended features, because npc does not shoot you at all if you do things right.
There is no quality only ****** features. Only reason why FW is active is that you advertised it, after all changes nothing has really changed or fixed. |
gelender
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 13:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
hi, this is my trading alt, i have other alts (2 per faction) for running FW missions for ALL 4 factions, about the prices you will see here: i trade with FW ships and some modules, cos its the most profitable (in terms of volume of isk that turns around) item from LP store, all the hulls/chips bought on jita, all FW ships/moduls/items sold on jita.
the prices right now: typhoon fi 270 mil navy geddon 300 mil navy domi 500 mil navy scorp 350 mil
my problem is this:
FW missions are profitable for only 1 faction right now (look at the prices up) , and its all cos of this LP store prices. the situation in gall/cal war sucks for both sides as far as LP store is in question cos 1 domi or scorp cost 600.000 LP, both sides DO NOT find upgrading systems profitable cos ATM its just waste of LP, so both sides are on T1, and mabe for a short time one side is on T2 but that does not last long. the basic ISK/LP income was around 1500-2000 ISK/ 1LP so the prices for domi and scorp should be like around 1 billion ISK - for a single navy faction ship no way.
as far as the market crashing thats not gna happen - fleet typhoon in not going to drop under 200 mil ever. and navy geddon in never ever hitting 1 billion. if you look at the volumes of ships being sold/bought fleet typhoon is on the bottom of the scale.
if you do FW missions you get more LP you get more items for less LP, compared to HI sec mission running, or LVL 5 missions, but there are downsides main being much higher risk and a big downgrade to character standing to oposing faction. now with current FW LP store system, running missions for 3 out of 4 factions is not profitable at all. so now you have the risk without the profit when doing FW missions, my question is whats the up side to this new system as far as the mission running is in question
|
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
208
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 13:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Good info
Big up for having the balls to explain what can and can't be done right now and communicating efficiently. If winter is when it can be done, winter will have to suffice, just keep your word and fix it then.
Also, half the ppl raging here aren't even in FW anymore so don't stress about them to much, thye are just professional cry babys. |
|
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 14:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
gelender wrote:hi, this is my trading alt, i have other alts (2 per faction) for running FW missions for ALL 4 factions, about the prices you will see here: i trade with FW ships and some modules, cos its the most profitable (in terms of volume of isk that turns around) item from LP store, all the hulls/chips bought on jita, all FW ships/moduls/items sold on jita.
the prices right now: typhoon fi 270 mil navy geddon 300 mil navy domi 500 mil navy scorp 350 mil
my problem is this:
FW missions are profitable for only 1 faction right now (look at the prices up) , and its all cos of this LP store prices. the situation in gall/cal war sucks for both sides as far as LP store is in question cos 1 domi or scorp cost 600.000 LP, both sides DO NOT find upgrading systems profitable cos ATM its just waste of LP, so both sides are on T1, and mabe for a short time one side is on T2 but that does not last long. the basic ISK/LP income was around 1500-2000 ISK/ 1LP so the prices for domi and scorp should be like around 1 billion ISK - for a single navy faction ship no way.
as far as the market crashing thats not gna happen - fleet typhoon in not going to drop under 200 mil ever. and navy geddon in never ever hitting 1 billion. if you look at the volumes of ships being sold/bought fleet typhoon is on the bottom of the scale.
if you do FW missions you get more LP you get more items for less LP, compared to HI sec mission running, or LVL 5 missions, but there are downsides main being much higher risk and a big downgrade to character standing to oposing faction. now with current FW LP store system, running missions for 3 out of 4 factions is not profitable at all. so now you have the risk without the profit when doing FW missions, my question is whats the up side to this new system as far as the mission running is in question
I will agree that the LP hit was a tad harsh. I found that it's not as, or even, profitable anymore to sell the things I sold from the LP store and now I just use it as a resupply dock when I need certain things. If that is the way CCP wants to roll though I guess we'll just have to deal. |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 14:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
We also are looking into an issue that prevents FW complexes from despawning properly, which in turn prevents new sites from spawning until the next downtime. Estimated time for such changes is to have them out as soon as possible (sorry, can't give estimate though, still working on them as we speak).
Hope that helps a bit. It does, I'm glad to hear that. It'd be good for everyone involved if plexes were more-or-less equally difficult across factions, and NPC electronic warfare was no longer a dominant defensive advantage (and a royal pain in the ass clearing some racial FW plexes). |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cheers, you guys are doing an excellent job. Keep up the good work and don't let the cry babies get to you too much. Just remember lots of folks who love the changes are not posting here. Best expansion EVER!
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
Is sexy time? |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
78
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think that removing E-War from NPCs is a good first step to equalize the differences between Factions a bit. However, to make it not too easy the following things should be changed too:
- NPC AI should be enhanced to sleeper AI.
- NPC should use MWD, at least the frigates should hit 2000m/s to catch enemy frigates.
- NPC spawns should adapt to what is in the plex. If you come in frigs only than more frigate NPC should spawn too. If you come with BS then less frigate but more BS NPC should appear. So for example if currently one BS NPC is planned to spawn and there is only a frigate pilot inside then instead of the BS a number of 6 Frigates should appear. Maybe you can add some randomness here to make it more interesting.
I pretty sure that this changes would make it impossible to solo-AFK a large plex in a frigate, however if you are on your toes and fighting the NPC you might be able to make it. Which sounds fair to me. |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you.
Just because CCP hasn't given you the resources to work on FW as you might have wanted doesn't mean that the product that was put out was any less shoddy. That's where most of the anger has come from: a deeply flawed product. And mainly it's because you represent CCP in this area that it's directed at you. Not because of anything personal, but because you're CCP Ytterbium |
gelender
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Schalac wrote:gelender wrote:hi, this is my trading alt, i have other alts (2 per faction) for running FW missions for ALL 4 factions, about the prices you will see here: i trade with FW ships and some modules, cos its the most profitable (in terms of volume of isk that turns around) item from LP store, all the hulls/chips bought on jita, all FW ships/moduls/items sold on jita.
the prices right now: typhoon fi 270 mil navy geddon 300 mil navy domi 500 mil navy scorp 350 mil
my problem is this:
FW missions are profitable for only 1 faction right now (look at the prices up) , and its all cos of this LP store prices. the situation in gall/cal war sucks for both sides as far as LP store is in question cos 1 domi or scorp cost 600.000 LP, both sides DO NOT find upgrading systems profitable cos ATM its just waste of LP, so both sides are on T1, and mabe for a short time one side is on T2 but that does not last long. the basic ISK/LP income was around 1500-2000 ISK/ 1LP so the prices for domi and scorp should be like around 1 billion ISK - for a single navy faction ship no way.
as far as the market crashing thats not gna happen - fleet typhoon in not going to drop under 200 mil ever. and navy geddon in never ever hitting 1 billion. if you look at the volumes of ships being sold/bought fleet typhoon is on the bottom of the scale.
if you do FW missions you get more LP you get more items for less LP, compared to HI sec mission running, or LVL 5 missions, but there are downsides main being much higher risk and a big downgrade to character standing to oposing faction. now with current FW LP store system, running missions for 3 out of 4 factions is not profitable at all. so now you have the risk without the profit when doing FW missions, my question is whats the up side to this new system as far as the mission running is in question
I will agree that the LP hit was a tad harsh. I found that it's not as, or even, profitable anymore to sell the things I sold from the LP store and now I just use it as a resupply dock when I need certain things. If that is the way CCP wants to roll though I guess we'll just have to deal.
|
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1313
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you. Just because CCP hasn't given you the resources to work on FW as you might have wanted doesn't mean that the product that was put out was any less shoddy. That's where most of the anger has come from: a deeply flawed product. And mainly it's because you represent CCP in this area that it's directed at you. Not because of anything personal, but because you're CCP Ytterbium
Regardless of whether I agree with your assessment of the current state of the product, asking people to remain civil while giving feedback is hardly an unfair request. Doing so is better for all parties involved. |
|
Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Removing Ewar is a good step.
But the real problem is that the plexes themselves are far from ideal. Even after taking Ewar into account the rats are still far from equal.
Balance the rats, provide adequate AI, or remove the rats all together. |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you. Just because CCP hasn't given you the resources to work on FW as you might have wanted doesn't mean that the product that was put out was any less shoddy. That's where most of the anger has come from: a deeply flawed product. And mainly it's because you represent CCP in this area that it's directed at you. Not because of anything personal, but because you're CCP Ytterbium Regardless of whether I agree with your assessment of the current state of the product, asking people to remain civil while giving feedback is hardly an unfair request. Doing so is better for all parties involved.
I'm not saying that people don't have to be civil, just that there seems to be a misunderstanding as to the nature of their anger.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
We also are looking into an issue that prevents FW complexes from despawning properly, which in turn prevents new sites from spawning until the next downtime. Estimated time for such changes is to have them out as soon as possible (sorry, can't give estimate though, still working on them as we speak).
Hope that helps a bit. Thanks for the update.
It's the lack of missile spam that makes the afk alts work Caldari/Minmatar work for afk alt plexing. "Alt" means very low skill speed tankers. It appears the new incursus with its insane, err, "finely balanced", repping bonus is the cheapest option for Gallente to afk plex, and these ships only cost 5 million each. I don't know if "afk repping incursus" will work in Minmatar space for Amarr.
The E-war is a pvp issue, and IMO not a big deal other than it needs to be balanced between the races - which you guys should test on your own to get a good perspective on them.
This is how I see the issue: Where/when there is lots of activity, these issues don't really matter since players will rule the day.
The army of alts "battling" each other matters only in areas of no activity - backwater systems or systems where one side has no TZ presence.
So right now, afk defensive plexing alts endlessly battle afk offensive alts in Gallente owned backwater systems. Since Caldari are running plexes at such a high rate, we (Gallente FW players) have to "online" more afk plexing alts to clean up the backwater systems. Not great game play, IMO.
However, thanks for looking at the issues. You've hit homeruns on the last two big expansions - let's go for three! |
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:It astounds me how the usual suspects in the Caldari militia countinue to say things that everyone, including themselves, knows aren't true. No offense, but you and many posters who pollute these threads haven't participated in the FW Occupancy War in a very long time. I suspect you know very little about these issues. Players on both sides who actually participate may throw temper tantrums, but if you filter through their rage you'll see they have made some excellent points on the state of FW mechanics.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
Thanks for everything!
Removing EW helps PVP out quite a bit. However, the missile spam vs non-missile spam still allows the side not facing missiles to pretty much afk run plexes with very very low skill alts, EW was never an issue there because those characters are not intended to engage in pvp.
But every little bit helps!
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Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
chatgris wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
Thanks for everything! Removing EW helps PVP out quite a bit. However, the missile spam vs non-missile spam still allows the side not facing missiles to pretty much afk run plexes with very very low skill alts, EW was never an issue there because those characters are not intended to engage in pvp. But every little bit helps!
Agreed. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
I wrote this forum post in response to a problem that has come up due to the new expansion. My only position with this post was not to bash but to get this problem known to CCP. NPC's have been imbalanced for a long time but have become a serious problem not just for the LP market. I see the problem that gallente will not hold thier systems thus we will be very limited in our ability to base our ships and fight good fleet fights. Now in saying that we are plexing hard and trying to fight this but there is only so much we can do against alt plexers period.
For CCP again i will say I love the expansion and what you guys have done. I don't think that this issue was seen as a big problem when designing the expansion. But unfortunitly it has become one IMO. Again my intentions where to inform not bash and if any of my comments came across as such I sincerely apologies for doing so.
Lets get this CLEAR gents for those who do bash. This expansion revived FW PVP. Before the patch I can say on comms and chats that people COMPLAINED to no end how bad pvp was,that there was not much. Funny thing was we still had very high kill rates at the time but people wanted more. Some left for 0.0 hoping to find this BUT ALMOST ALL CAME BACK because they realized that FW was still one of the best places for pvp. This expansion has given us exactly what we wanted more PVP. and for this THANK YOU CCP. CCP should be told they solved this problem perfectly.
On a personal note just saying that you are aware of the problem and are trying to fix this during the winter when you get your manpower back is awesome. This lets me know for one that you see it and acknowledge it and second you have given us a time frame that i will not post on my calander but about a time in which we can maybe see changes and yes i know it will be next year but that is better then nothing. I plan on playing this game till they shut it down. I guess being in the dark not knowing what CCP thinks or is planning makes people think nothing is happening.
Maybe for a short term solution. Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. To the level that the caldari have in thier plexes. This would solve the problem in the short term until you guys address it in the long run. In all honesty EW NPC's are doing good. What makes it hard is the missile spams. This would solve the afk plexing problems of new alts. Just my two cents. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
171
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Removing EW helps PVP out quite a bit. However, the missile spam vs non-missile spam still allows the side not facing missiles to pretty much afk run plexes with very very low skill alts, EW was never an issue there because those characters are not intended to engage in pvp... Removing the TP spam from Mime rats should make it possible to AB tank but one or two of their plexes .. all removing eWar at this point does is make NPCs more or less equal, so in a sense plexes will be balanced albeit in the wrong direction
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dopified wrote: Maybe for a short term solution. Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. To the level that the caldari have in thier plexes. This would solve the problem in the short term until you guys address it in the long run. In all honesty EW NPC's are doing good. What makes it hard is the missile spams. This would solve the afk plexing problems of new alts. Just my two cents.
I'm sure the devs are smarter than me, but I see two potential short term solutions. 1. Yours: Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. 2. Require all NPCs in a plex be killed.
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Dopified wrote: Maybe for a short term solution. Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. To the level that the caldari have in thier plexes. This would solve the problem in the short term until you guys address it in the long run. In all honesty EW NPC's are doing good. What makes it hard is the missile spams. This would solve the afk plexing problems of new alts. Just my two cents.
I'm sure the devs are smarter than me, but I see two potential short term solutions. 1. Yours: Add missile spaming npc's to all FW plexes. 2. Require all NPCs in a plex be killed.
I have thought of that and saw Superchair's post about it. Good idea one problem i see is that the plex bug might come into affect. If they can not get it closed for normal purposes then maybe adding the change of killing NPC's to close it will be a catastophe. Just saying |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
I have to 100% disagree,
As a player that have ran both caldari and gallente missions I do know a thing or two about the npcs.
1) Yes you can solo majors (caldari and gallente) in a frigate (not nessacarly t1). The issue is that you will not be able to fight and you will be simply farming (which is the point of the farmer)
2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well.
I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
You guys can tank/run a gal major in a no skilled alt flying a condor solo, we can most definitely NOT do that. Hence why people are complaining.
BolsterBomb wrote: 3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well.
Is sexy time? |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dopified wrote:I have thought of that and saw Superchair's post about it. Good idea one problem i see is that the plex bug might come into affect. If they can not get it closed for normal purposes then maybe adding the change of killing NPC's to close it will be a catastophe. Just saying I think it can only be bugged if there is both factions are near the timer at the same time - which doesn't happen with afk plexing. Damar or Val Erian will know more about the specifics of the plexing bug.
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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:You guys can tank/run a gal major in a no skilled alt flying a condor solo, we can most definitely NOT do that. Hence why people are complaining. BolsterBomb wrote: 3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well.
As I said I have not seen condors taking majors yet. If they are out there its few and between. (not going to say they cant it just isn't practical when you are doing it for lp)
But again, does it really matter that a farmer takes a single major in a single system.
What I see more of is people creating alts to defensive plex. Not offensive plex. Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
Here I strongly disagree. AFK plexers are a problem, not a solution. I don't think the design mission of FW is "lets allow plexes to be taken AFK, cause we want a gameplay mechanic that requires alts and AFK play because plexing is boring".
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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
chatgris wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
Here I strongly disagree. AFK plexers are a problem, not a solution. I don't think the design mission of FW is "lets allow plexes to be taken AFK, cause we want a gameplay mechanic that requires alts and AFK play because plexing is boring".
I agree with your statement however as a game mechanic it also helps create balance. An act of retardation improves for the greater good. Example, in Amar. Lets say 90% of systems are minni owned. By farmers coming in and plexing it contest systems higher in greater numbers which allows the pvpers to finish the job. Its kind of like "its the end that matters not the way you get there"
Remember you can shoot them as weill. Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well. I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc
Bolster you have just proven what i am fighting for. Am i worried about the caldari farming lp NO. Lets say that if the caldari take all the gallente systems and we are now the losing faction could the gallente use afk plexing alts with ease as the caldari do to counter and start winning again. Absolutely not. You have just given us an explanation that is totally one sided. This is a catch 22 statement.
For further info take a look at the numbers caldari are outplexing by 200+ plexes a day more then anyone else. This is due to alt plexers that plex with no npc resistence and we as a militia try to kill them but they are to many and reship fast and are back out in seconds. We can not just spend all day chasing these guys. The ones that do stay and want to fight can because the npc's are a joke. My example of this is in my first post. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.
Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.
3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well. I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc Bolster you have just proven what i am fighting for. Am i worried about the caldari farming lp NO. Lets say that if the caldari take all the gallente systems and we are now the losing faction could the gallente use afk plexing alts with ease as the caldari do to counter and start winning again. Absolutely not. You have just given us an explanation that is totally one sided. This is a catch 22 statement. For further info take a look at the numbers caldari are outplexing by 200+ plexes a day more then anyone else. This is due to alt plexers that plex with no npc resistence and we as a militia try to kill them but they are to many and reship fast and are back out in seconds. We can not just spend all day chasing these guys. The ones that do stay and want to fight can because the npc's are a joke. My example of this is in my first post.
I understand it is not one sided and if Caldari take all the systems I would expect to see it on the flip side. My point is very simple. People will find a way to afk plex. I do not belive it really is afk plexing, you have to be there. I belive the more pressing reason caldari have more farmers is simply because of the location of jita (which you mentioned)
By having caldari alts it is easier to move lp into isk if you are caldari. You can do it as well for gallente but at this point the caldari have more systems to plex, the lp rewards are basically on the same level as gallente, and logistics is easier.
Once things flip Id expect to see more gallente alts.
Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 17:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Once things flip Id expect to see more gallente alts.
Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.
PS: I still think the afk alt farming is a BAD thing for a whole host of reasons, and I look forward to a "kill all rats to capture opposing plexes and get LP" mechanic. I don't mind it so much for defensive plexing since there is no LP reward, and therefore less incentive to afk farm. Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.
Bolster i see what you say but this only works when the NPC's are balanced and equally as hard for each side. Chatgris has pointed this out above.
But i also know you bolster we used to be corp mates and i know that you want to farm the lp and have a system to do so. I know you dont want that system to get harder so that you can keep farming the same way. Just as so many others wanted lp stores to stay the same because they had a system that gave them good income with the mission running. LP stores are much higher and thus you have to run 4 times as much to keep the same.
This post was about NPC's being equal and getting ride of the afk 1 week old plexing farmers that are clearly alts which we cannot compete with for system control. It is also about system control in which gallente and ammar are at a disadvantage. When one side can do something at ease in a war and the other cannot that affect the war as great as system lockouts that side will always win no matter what the other side with the disadvantage does. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote: Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.
But i also know you bolster we used to be corp mates and i know that you want to farm the lp and have a system to do so. I know you dont want that system to get harder so that you can keep farming the same way. Just as so many others wanted lp stores to stay the same because they had a system that gave them good income with the mission running. LP stores are much higher and thus you have to run 4 times as much to keep the same.
I read this then remembered you're an idiot
I stopped replying to idiots yesterday Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
453
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dopified wrote: 1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion.
Sadly I agree with you. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
chatgris wrote: Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.
Gallente afk plexing alts can plex as nearly effectively as caldari alts except it requires a few more skill points and 5 million isk instead of 50k isk per loss. (self repping incursus)
"Kill all rats" solution would lead to drone boats being used in plexes for "afk" plexing. Maybe Caldari boats with f.o.f missiles (?? don't know mechanics of f.o.f)
The difference would be that you would need to bring ships which are capable of applying dps for the appropriate sized plex. No more condors or incursuses solo'ing majors, but perhaps an "afk" imicus soloing minors.
This is a realistic goal, IMO.
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Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
I read this then remembered you're an idiot
I stopped replying to idiots yesterday
Bolster i call it as it is man you know that about me. This is about farming for caldari as much as it is system control with ease. I know Caldari do not want this advantage to change. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Dopified wrote: 1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion.
Sadly I agree with you.
1. Ability to stay active in a given system with pvp'ers trumps all. 2. Lacking that, afk defensive plexing alts capping plexes when pvp'ers not active trumps offensive afk plexing alts. 3. Lacking afk defensive plexing alts and active pvp'ers, afk offensive plexing alts win.
So there you have it. Gallente will be onlining several afk defensive plexing alts in the next couple of weeks. Once this is done, the Caldari will have to earn their system captures the hard way - through pvp.
Not a great way to play a game, but it's what is necessary to secure systems. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:
I read this then remembered you're an idiot
I stopped replying to idiots yesterday
Bolster i call it as it is man you know that about me. This is about farming for caldari as much as it is system control with ease. I know Caldari do not want this advantage to change.
No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama
Morons like yourself post stupid things in which you did. If you want a constructive conversation then I am willing but you sir are an idiot who is mad.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
265
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
It is a perversion of the game when a frig can tank a major and get the rewards but yet a BC cannot do so. I'm okay if a minor or a medium can be done with a frig but if you want the rewards of a major, then a BC hull needs to be fielded in order to do so.
Otherwise, all this does is keep FW PVP to frig fights and turns off the higher skilled pilots who want to slug it out with BC hulls and more advanced fleet comps. It really does feel like FW PVP has become a special olympics of sorts.
C'est La Eve :) Gallente Militia -áPVP Corp. Selective recruitment open. http://iamsheriff.com/eagle.html |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
Morons like yourself post stupid things in which you did. If you want a constructive conversation then I am willing but you sir are an idiot who is mad.
You are absolutely right I am a MORON. Somehow this MORON was able to start a forum thread in which CCP is addressing as a problem and they have stated that. They have even posted in here which they have not posted in a vast majority of warefare and tactic's threads. But somehow this MORON was able to put up an arguement WITH EVIDENCE in which CCP and majority of people posting are agreeing is a problem. Yet after they posted this you argue against this. But i guess with me BEING A MORON i just don't understand the logic behind it. For now on bolster I will address myself as the IDIOT of FW.
Put everything aside bolster I enjoyed flying with you when you where in corp. I guess you dont have the same feelings about that as well to just blatantly call someone an IDIOT and MORON. Still think you WHERE a good guy when i flew with you. But posting that someone is a moron is a little extreme bolster. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama
It's all about opportunity cost. Time spent securing backwater systems is time not spent defending front lines.
Caldari have been doing both - plexing front lines hard with pvp'er, and speed-tanking backwater systems with afk plexing alts.
Gallente interested in Occupancy Warfare have had to counter both with active mains. That is slowly changing. You'll see more resistance from Gallente in the near future as their home systems are threatened. Also afk defensive plexing alts will free up more pvp'ers interested in occupancy warfare to move to the front lines.
Plus there is little reason to defend non-home systems that hard. Who among you are really all that interested in spending time decontesting Immuri for no reward? I expect the non-station systems to flip back fairly quickly. Station systems with flip back pretty quickly too unless Caldari move into them in full force. We'll see what happens. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:
No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama
It's all about opportunity cost. Time spent securing backwater systems is time not spent defending front lines. Caldari have been doing both - plexing front lines hard with pvp'er, and speed-tanking backwater systems with afk plexing alts. Gallente interested in Occupancy Warfare have had to counter both with active mains. That is slowly changing. You'll see more resistance from Gallente in the near future as their home systems are threatened. Also afk defensive plexing alts will free up more pvp'ers interested in occupancy warfare to move to the front lines. Plus there is little reason to defend non-home systems that hard. Who among you are really all that interested in spending time decontesting Immuri for no reward? I expect the non-station systems to flip back fairly quickly. Station systems will flip back pretty quickly too unless Caldari move into them in full force. We'll see what happens.
100% agree
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
453
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.
Do away with plex npcs entirely and let the militias know where plexes are being attacked. That way the players can fight for them instead of having the npcs play such a large role in who wins.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW. This part of the forum is for ranting and raving, it is COAD for the non-aligned/not-null people .. the thread you are looking for is a sticky in F&I and already has loads of good stuff in presented in a civil manner .. which I hear CCP likes
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Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes.
And when was the last time you or your corp displayed mental capacity for "constructive thoughts" with your in-game behavior. That's right, you never did. So pardon us when we dont give any respect to another unskilled idiot who wont even fly a t1 frigate without having his booster alt with him on a movable pos. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:42:00 -
[82] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. And when was the last time you or your corp displayed mental capacity for "constructive thoughts" with your in-game behavior. That's right, you never did. So pardon us when we dont give any respect to another unskilled idiot who wont even fly a t1 frigate without having his booster alt with him on a movable pos.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this
And for the record yes I am done working today and am now wasting time Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 19:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?.... Whoa! That rant was aimed at me?
You said: "..this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter" I said: "Like pissing oneself to keep warm."
Pretty much exact same thing just different phrasing .. even used a very PC and widely used phrase.
Screw this, I am out. It is your game to ruin as you see fit .. I'll just see if I can find some other little corner of your Themepark (there, I said it) to have my candyfloss/popcorn (after first selling it to and stealing it back from some newb).
PS: If that post is considered ranting .. oh boy are you lot in for a rough ride when you click on any link on these forums. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing. You can potentially "fix" defensive plexing by manipulating the timer. Insert a rule such as: Plex Timer Rate for Defensive Plex = min(1, Max Ship Class in Plex/(Actual Ship Clas in Plex)), ship class for plex defined by requirements to get into plex.
Unrestricted: BS = 8 Level 3: BC, HAC, etc... = 4 Level 2: Cruiser, AF, etc.. =2 Level 1: Destroyer, Frigate = 1
Examples Timer Rates: One T1 frigs in Major Plex = 8x 8 T1 frigs in Major Plex = 1x 16 T1 frigs in Unrestricted Plex = 1x
If an afk defensive plexer wants to cap a major unrestricted with a T1 frigate, then it will take him 8x as long as it would currently.
Defensive plexing issue solved. (Bring the right ship for the job dammit!)
We're done. Time to move on to next issue.
/thread (<---- Never works) |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing. You can potentially "fix" defensive plexing by manipulating the timer. Insert a rule such as: Plex Timer Rate for Defensive Plex = min(1, Max Ship Class in Plex/(Actual Ship Clas in Plex)), ship class for plex defined by requirements to get into plex. Unrestricted: BS = 8 Level 3: BC, HAC, etc... = 4 Level 2: Cruiser, AF, etc.. =2 Level 1: Destroyer, Frigate = 1 Examples Timer Rates: One T1 frigs in Major Plex = 8x 8 T1 frigs in Major Plex = 1x 16 T1 frigs in Unrestricted Plex = 1x If an afk defensive plexer wants to cap a major unrestricted with a T1 frigate, then it will take him 8x as long as it would currently. Defensive plexing issue solved. (Bring the right ship for the job dammit!) We're done. Time to move on to next issue. /thread (<---- Never works)
So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk?????? Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:22:00 -
[86] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:
So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk??????
No, you run minors with your frigs, mediums with your T1 cruisers, majors with your T1 BC, and unrestricted plexes with your BS.
If you want to stay in one ship, then run the same level plex in several different systems.
Just like when you offensive plex (assuming requirement to kill all NPCs was implemented).
/thread. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:
So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk??????
No, you run minors with your frigs, mediums with your T1 cruisers, majors with your T1 BC, and unrestricted plexes with your BS. If you want to stay in one ship, then run the same level plex in several different systems. Just like when you offensive plex (assuming requirement to kill all NPCs was implemented). /thread.
So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.
Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint
Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.
Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint
Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem Huh? You're defensive plexing. You own the system. Whatever logistics issues you may have pale in comparison to the entities that are offensive plexing the same system. Unless of course you have flipped a non station system deep within enemy territory (in which case you're going to lose it soon anyways).
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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:41:00 -
[89] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.
Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint
Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem Huh? You're defensive plexing. You own the system. Whatever logistics issues you may have pale in comparison to the entities that are offensive plexing the same system. Unless of course you have flipped a non station system deep within enemy territory (in which case you're going to lose it soon anyways).
I read this wrong, it sounded as if you wanted this for OFFENSIVE plexing.
I dunno if you're going to do this then just make it so only certain ship types can enter period. Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: I read this wrong, it sounded as if you wanted this for OFFENSIVE plexing. I dunno if you're going to do this then just make it so only certain ship types can enter period.
FOOM suggested this once a long time ago, but you would lose out on potential diversity in fights.
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Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
151
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 21:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 21:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint
Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem
So what are you implying Bolster? I have am having troubles seeing what you are trying to say about me. Just the Moron in me I guess. Maybe this
1. I dont plex? ="Dopified" victoryPoints="122654" But where are you on the list? Oh wait your not. But i do plex for a reason not to just decontest systems.
2. Because i am just carebearing? Dopified http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=672815 BolsterBomb http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=530431
My killboard is not impressive compared to most
Bolster when you where in XMETA your source of income was your pos's and planetary interaction which allowed you to fuel your pos's. When these got nerf you rage quit eve because your source of income was being crapped on. It was no longer as lucrative to make isk off of what you had set up and not destroy your standings with your other toons that have high SP so you quit. Now that it is in the works to change the NPC's in plexing so that it is not easy for brand new alts to run the plexes your source of income is being threatened again. You dont want you standings on your main toons to be hit by crashing them in militia so it is easy to have a no SP toon to tank the best plexes LP/HR. You have complained about standing before and wanted to be in militia. So this is threatening your source of income and you are no happy about it so you post against most players and CCP. THIS IS THE SAME AS BEFORE. This is why i posted what i did I CALL IT AS I SEE IT.
Bolster back in the day I brought you into XMETA when no other gallente corp would want to look at you. I advised Froz that you where a good guy. After doing so I took a ton of flack for bringing you in. People wanted you gone from militia so that you would not join thier fleets. I cannot tell you how many people private convoed me sent messages and told this to me on comms. They complained about Failed intel when scouting or just being annoying. I can tell you this you really know how to CRAP on people who have been good to you or just nice. Well i can say you just added another person to you long list of people who dislike you now. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 21:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.
I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote: Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.
Gallente afk plexing alts can plex as nearly effectively as caldari alts except it requires a few more skill points and 5 million isk instead of 50k isk per loss. (self repping incursus) "Kill all rats" solution would lead to drone boats being used in plexes for "afk" plexing. Maybe Caldari boats with f.o.f missiles (?? don't know mechanics of f.o.f) The difference would be that you would need to bring ships which are capable of applying dps for the appropriate sized plex. No more condors or incursuses solo'ing majors, but perhaps an "afk" imicus soloing minors. This is a realistic goal, IMO. This would be a reasonable solution.. have the button stop at 30 seconds or something as long as there are NPCs remaining. (and for the love of god make sure the NPCs are coded like belt rats, to burn back to the button when they're dragged off past a couple hundred K, so people can't make enemy alts and bug out the plexes, there's enough of that going on already). |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed.
They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity.
A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage.
But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:20:00 -
[96] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Screw this, I am out.
Can I have your stuff? |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:25:00 -
[97] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity. A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage. But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.
Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage.
And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
226
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points. Very true we can run plexes in t1 frigs. But you neglect to mention that we can not do this in Major plexes and in med this can not be done afk unless you fully fit out a dual rep cap stable frig and only in med plexes. Again no pvp. If you can please put forward the Ship and Fit with instruction on how to orbit. I would like to see explanation and evidence instead of half truths and misleading information. Someone saying you can run caldari plexes in t1 frig easy does not mean ALL the plexes only the minors. Gallente Minor- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Med- T1 frig afk YES Gallente Major- T1 frig afk YES Caldari Minor- T1 frig Afk Repper cap stable YES Caldari Med- T1 frig Afk Reppers and Cap stable fitted for plexing only YES Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL NO Again i have given evidence above. This is why the Gallente are losing the battle for systems
You seem to forget to notice the Gal Incursus guys lately running every plex type. You guys already whined and got ECM nerfed while we still have to deal with being perma damped much of the time, now you want them easier?
Hey I have an idea.. fly the proper ship to do the plexes and kill the NPC's..
As far as "numbers" in each Militia, you know just as well as anyone that that is a bunch of BS. There has always been crap tons of guys in Caldari Militia that have nothing to do with fighting and only join Militia NPC corp to farm high sec missions or FW missions because of no taxes.
You are really going to whine about Gal having lower numbers when yesterday I was in Nenn there was over 40 of you docked, I went to Enal and there was a gang of 15 or so and another 5 to 10 guys spread between system like Akadgi, Hikk.. That's not even counting any guys in Hey, Nis, Villi or Rak.
Active pilots are what count and now that Caldari is finally starting to get "close" to having same active numbers you already start whining that you can't compete because i't's no longer easy to just out blob us? |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Mutnin wrote: You seem to forget to notice the Gal Incursus guys lately running every plex type. You guys already whined and got ECM nerfed while we still have to deal with being perma damped much of the time, now you want them easier?
Hey I have an idea.. fly the proper ship to do the plexes and kill the NPC's..
As far as "numbers" in each Militia, you know just as well as anyone that that is a bunch of BS. There has always been crap tons of guys in Caldari Militia that have nothing to do with fighting and only join Militia NPC corp to farm high sec missions or FW missions because of no taxes.
You are really going to whine about Gal having lower numbers when yesterday I was in Nenn there was over 40 of you docked, I went to Enal and there was a gang of 15 or so and another 5 to 10 guys spread between system like Akadgi, Hikk.. That's not even counting any guys in Hey, Nis, Villi or Rak.
Active pilots are what count and now that Caldari is finally starting to get "close" to having same active numbers you already start whining that you can't compete because i't's no longer easy to just out blob us?
Funny we ask for the Damage on the rats to be even, not give us an advantage and yet we are accused of crying so it makes things easier for us? Oh wait we are wanting it to be even. Again another caldari who does not want to give up his advantage |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
453
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dopified wrote:chatgris wrote:Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity. A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage. But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement. Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage. And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms.
I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.
The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
226
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
O how I heart FW. To think CCP was thinking about adding more drama to it. If only they new then what they can see now.
Only thing that really annoys me, is LP rewards for Kills. They only go to the people in the fleet of the final blow pilot. Outside off that, everything else is pretty much fine. Well NPC balance of course but that drums been banged so much it becomes pointless.
However if you could tweek the missions some, as in force them into ENEMY systems only please. Right now you can do an entire mission run for the Minmatar and never set foot in Amarr space. This is broken. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:53:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.
The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes.
I agree with it but maybe think that we stay with each races damage type seperately. For some like gallente they can not tank Explosive very well and thinking of that for the other militia's as well but missile spamming for all will deal the damage. But that would be the only change maybe not the Same rats if you meant one specific damage type. If that is not what you meant then i aggree with one type of rat that has the damage dealt the same for that militia it is dealing too. But i would say we need some kind of resistence in the plexes for when some are not on. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
226
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 23:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Cearain wrote:I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.
The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes. I agree with it but maybe think that we stay with each races damage type seperately. For some like gallente they can not tank Explosive very well and thinking of that for the other militia's as well but missile spamming for all will deal the damage. But that would be the only change maybe not the Same rats if you meant one specific damage type. If that is not what you meant then i aggree with one type of rat that has the damage dealt the same for that militia it is dealing too. But i would say we need some kind of resistence in the plexes for when some are not on.
Do you realize that you can solo every faction lvl 4's in a bomber? It's not just Minmatar & Caldari that can run solo bombers in missions.. Gal & Amarr can do the same it's just a bit harder and requires ships set up to do the job. Same with plexes..
Either way, plex NCP's changes do little to stop any "easy" mode plexing/mission farming because it then just requires a noob alt in MWD T1 frig to take aggro... If you want to fix plexing to stop noob alts from farming them, then just require all NPC's must be killed in order to complete the plex & then we can have more PVE in FW.
Even then 1 noob Thrasher can run any minor with a 3 day old skilled alt & kill all the NPC's. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 23:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dopified wrote:chatgris wrote:Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity. A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage. But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement. Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage. And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms.
It would be a good temporary fix. It would damp down the afk plexing alts some and give everyone an even playing field.
I would prefer that all rats became the short range turret rats instead so that everyone could pvp in plexes without NPC interference just by burning off the button (rats should stay near the button), but that doesn't solve the afk frigate issue until they introduce the "kill all rats to close plex" fix. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
453
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 23:20:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Dopified wrote:Cearain wrote:I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.
The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes. I agree with it but maybe think that we stay with each races damage type seperately. For some like gallente they can not tank Explosive very well and thinking of that for the other militia's as well but missile spamming for all will deal the damage. But that would be the only change maybe not the Same rats if you meant one specific damage type. If that is not what you meant then i aggree with one type of rat that has the damage dealt the same for that militia it is dealing too. But i would say we need some kind of resistence in the plexes for when some are not on. Do you realize that you can solo every faction lvl 4's in a bomber? It's not just Minmatar & Caldari that can run solo bombers in missions.. Gal & Amarr can do the same it's just a bit harder and requires ships set up to do the job. Same with plexes.. Either way, plex NCP's changes do little to stop any "easy" mode plexing/mission farming because it then just requires a noob alt in MWD T1 frig to take aggro... If you want to fix plexing to stop noob alts from farming them, then just require all NPC's must be killed in order to complete the plex & then we can have more PVE in FW. Even then 1 noob Thrasher can run any minor with a 3 day old skilled alt & kill all the NPC's.
What set up do you use to run all the amarr level 4 missions solo in a stealth bomber? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 23:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Do you realize that you can solo every faction lvl 4's in a bomber? It's not just Minmatar & Caldari that can run solo bombers in missions.. Gal & Amarr can do the same it's just a bit harder and requires ships set up to do the job. Same with plexes..
I would love to see what fit you think it is possible to solo a level 4 gallente fw mission (against caldari rats, and NOT the one where you have to pick up the item that can be done in a ceptor). Because those rats hit out to 100+, and the jamming is pretty intense too - it works over the tank of an ishtar/gila real good. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 00:14:00 -
[107] - Quote
Again the lack of posting actual fits or evidence backing up the claim of certain parties just goes to prove how missleading and untruthful some people can be. You cannot solo Ammar missions or Gallente missions in a Stealth bomber. And in such a way ccp has rewarded our missions with more lp to kind of make up for that.
Secondly you have fully admitted there is an advantage on your side but argue for us to work harder at this. It makes a difference if you can run all 3 plex sizes in one ship and not just minors in a low sp thrasher pilot. But it is still argued by you that this is fair. Again evidence for our side that there is an imbalance and one side is disadvantaged greatly. I would say if they allowed the gallente militia to speed tank like you all do i would have 3 alts running plexes at the same time afk who cares if they get popped numbers prove i can just put them back out cheap. And same can be said if i want to go pvp i can just plex easy by speed tanking and not wasting ammo till a find a fight. You say we can use two alts well NO ONE IS DOING IT because no one thinks in thier right mind paying for two accounts is worth plexing one plex at a time.
Please get real with your arguements and provide at least some kind of evidence to back your claim on THIS TOPIC not another. You want another topic then post it in a new thread I will answer you there. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
226
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 00:42:00 -
[108] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Mutnin wrote:Do you realize that you can solo every faction lvl 4's in a bomber? It's not just Minmatar & Caldari that can run solo bombers in missions.. Gal & Amarr can do the same it's just a bit harder and requires ships set up to do the job. Same with plexes..
I would love to see what fit you think it is possible to solo a level 4 gallente fw mission (against caldari rats, and NOT the one where you have to pick up the item that can be done in a ceptor). Because those rats hit out to 100+, and the jamming is pretty intense too - it works over the tank of an ishtar/gila real good.
It's not think, it's can do.. I'm not here to do your work for yea, but I'm telling you they can be done solo in a bomber.
Also I'm totally watching Pon Chito a (2012.05.27) Gal alt of Russians in Kehjari speed tanking a Caldari major in a Dram.. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 00:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
No target painters/webs = "afk plexing incursus" for missile spam plexes.
The question everybody is arguing is whether you should be able to solo a L3 (or higher) plex with a 50k isk T1 frigate or a 5 million isk T1 frigate. To me there is little difference between the two. It's just as ridiculous that a L3 plex can be solo'd by an incursus as it can be solo'd by a T1 fit condor. The situation may be come even more absurd when CCP Ytter applies the 10%/level rep bonus to the Exeqeror (maybe a Vexor or Thorax, who knows, or perhaps one of the assault frigates) in 6 months.
IMO you should be able to solo a given plex (in a reasonable amount of time) with the largest sized (or best in class) ship allowed in the plex - nothing less. Since we can all build a great tanker out of a small, inexpensive ship, the only metric I see that would work well under current mechanics is forcing everybody to kill all NPCs before closing the plex.
As a point of reference, you can solo a L3 Caldari plex with an Ishtar by killing all the NPCs in about the same amount of time it takes to run the plex down. I don't believe an ishkur (L2 ship) can kill all the NPCs in that same amount of time. That's where we want to be, IMO. |
Heredom
Quantum Cats Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 03:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
Very good thread with excellent feedback and honestly good answers from CCP.
Congratz, Dopi.
TY, CCP.
TY, adult players with decent coments and feedback .
And to the whining drama queens with PMS-like attitude ("you" must be one if this single sentence is now disturbing your temper), go play "Hello Kitty Online" or watch "Magic Poneys", IF your mommy lets you do it. 'Cause she might ask you first to say sorry to the CCP Devs that professionally answered in this forum thread.
/end childish posts, they're beyond pathetic. Not even considered bad trolls. Done, signature edited with perfection!... |
|
Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 04:05:00 -
[111] - Quote
I don't see an issue with giving missile spam to all races plex NPCs once the EW is removed. Every race has them, at least at frigate level, and it would go someway to rectifying the imbalance.
There are one or two L4 Amarrian FW missions at most that you can do solo in a SB. I've had a good chuckle a few times when ex-Minnie pilots have come over and discovered this the hard way.... |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Villore Accords
171
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 04:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:chatgris wrote:Mutnin wrote:Do you realize that you can solo every faction lvl 4's in a bomber? It's not just Minmatar & Caldari that can run solo bombers in missions.. Gal & Amarr can do the same it's just a bit harder and requires ships set up to do the job. Same with plexes..
I would love to see what fit you think it is possible to solo a level 4 gallente fw mission (against caldari rats, and NOT the one where you have to pick up the item that can be done in a ceptor). Because those rats hit out to 100+, and the jamming is pretty intense too - it works over the tank of an ishtar/gila real good. It's not think, it's can do.. I'm not here to do your work for yea, but I'm telling you they can be done solo in a bomber. Also I'm totally watching Pon Chito a (2012.05.27) Gal alt of Russians in Kehjari speed tanking a Caldari major in a Dram..
There might be only 1 gallente fw mission that can be solod in a stealth bomber and now i think about it i cant remember which it is... The bomber i use for the speed tank starts to get overwhelmed if rats spawn within 70km of its 160km orbit and that doesnt even have any torp launchers to allow the fitting of the tank. I could go ab but you need the mwd to get out of the high damage zone of the first spawn before it comes in for some missions... Claiming that SB's can solo gall fw missions really does destroy any credibility you might have thought you had. |
Juan Rayo
Quantum Cats Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 04:50:00 -
[113] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.
Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.
Fully agreed. |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 05:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Dopified wrote:You say we can use two alts well NO ONE IS DOING IT because no one thinks in thier right mind paying for two accounts is worth plexing one plex at a time.
Ahem...Black Onyx Society on your side. One guy, 7 stabbed atron accounts. Apparently only because he hates Damar's guts and wants to waste his time (somehow I dont think he grasp the irony of the situation there...), not to mention Val has several accounts.
|
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
153
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 06:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Dopified wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.
there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes. I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity. A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage. But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.
This true, so i do not see any point to change npc because it does not really solve anything.
As i said thing is not so simple, you have to make some other decision 1st and then think how npc is. |
Whisperen
That's Not A Knife Flatline.
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 07:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Drop the timers and give the npc's sansha AI with some more long range/fast tackle problem solved wheres my cookie. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 07:15:00 -
[117] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: There might be only 1 gallente fw mission that can be solod in a stealth bomber and now i think about it i cant remember which it is... .
Uproot. The rats don't agress unless you get too close to them. Orbit Main reactor at 72km when you get into plex and never see NPC aggression.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:31:00 -
[118] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.
Is there any way you could describe or list what these problems are? And since you probably have the best insight into FW mechanics of any player who has participated, what would you propose as solutions? |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
153
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 10:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Bad Messenger wrote: there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.
Is there any way you could describe or list what these problems are? And since you probably have the best insight into FW mechanics of any player who has participated, what would you propose as solutions?
hard to say anything, ccp keeps deleting my posts :) |
Silence iKillYouu
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 11:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
Eve isn't ment to be fair http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:58:00 -
[121] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.
No target painters/webs = "afk plexing incursus" for missile spam plexes.
So what? Until the militia players are notified of the plexes being attacked (or something else that makes it more of a pvp activity) it will always be a lame pve mechanic. Making you need to use a bigger pve ship is like trying to polish a turd.
CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 13:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
Cearain wrote:CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it.
There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed). |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 13:19:00 -
[123] - Quote
What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.
*climbs in his boat*
Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now
AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1987
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 13:22:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Ok; where to start?
We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.
However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.
Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.
Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.
So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.
So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.
Thank you.
For what its worth Ytterbium I think you guys are off to a great start and I certainly appreciate the effort and focus you've put on Faction Warfare so far this year. I can appreciate the frustration you must feel reading the incessant whining and complaints of various respondants to these threads (especially those who by their own admission no longer play FW!)
I think you are within your rights to expect to be treated with some basic respect and I for one hope we can all return to a climate of constructive interaction on these forums.
Please don't let the random frothing nonsense put you off. Unfortunately the passionate involvement many players feel for this game can turn to the bitter seething anger of the jilted lover (mentioning no names Veshta) and you just need to ignore that stuff and have a nice cup of tea.
All the best and chin up Ytterbium. Keep the changes coming!
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 15:52:00 -
[125] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.
*climbs in his boat*
Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now
AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT
Well all i can say is you dont see things as aparently most people do. It is called a numbers game. If you can field a crap ton more plexers and keep them going as cheap as you guys can then you can do what is happening. Look at the numbers. Caldari are outplexing everyone by 3000-4000+ victory points a day and yes this is due in large to Alts with low sp running timers all over with no resistence. It does not matter if they are in backwater systems or Nenna. Same as any other war it is a numbers game and when you put up larger numbers like that you can not win no matter what. It is going to happen that we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened. I know it feels good to win but doing it without pvp or any resistence is pretty lame. Try getting out of your tanking interceptor and fighting for a change Bolster. Lets see you laugh when we destroy you some more. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 15:55:00 -
[126] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.
*climbs in his boat*
Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now
AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT /me still waiting Gallente Militia Update: absurd afk defensive plexing fleet assembled to counter ridiculous numbers of Caldari afk plexing alts. Time to move on the offensive. Was nice knowing you Bolster. |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:17:00 -
[127] - Quote
Dopified wrote:we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened.
No. If you care enough about the system, it's not going to flip since you live there. And right now you have lost....wait for it, non-station systems, which by all accounts nobody gives a flying piece of brown horse pudding. (Or did you actually have some assets locked in Aivonen/Hallanen, somehow I doubt)
You seem pissed off that afk plexing for lp/occupancy is only 2/3 as effective right now for gallente as it is for caldari. You would not consider afk plexing wrong in the least if it was reversed. Low sp alts can take any gallente plex, so what? Low sp alts can easily take minor/med caldari plexes afk. Both are time consuming and tedious things to counter, does not matter if you do it with main or alt and both are equally wrong.
As for x gal threathening about alt army. If you would be serious, you would not boast about it, you would just do it. And to be honest, it will burn you out very rapidly. Also, do Minmatar even get locked out of hostile systems in Black Rise or did CCP do another "drop the ball" loophole to militia rules? |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:23:00 -
[128] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:As for x gal threathening about alt army. If you would be serious, you would not boast about it, you would just do it. And to be honest, it will burn you out very rapidly. Only "boasting" because having to use one to defend space while still having fun in game is absurd. Kind of like when you "boasted" about plex bug to point out absurd bug in code.
|
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Only "boasting" because having to use one to defend space while still having fun in game is absurd. Kind of like when you "boasted" about plex bug to point out absurd bug in code.
Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?
And again, plex bug was used by your side first, like most other bugs. I merely put it out for all to see.
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:28:00 -
[130] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?
Not since this new patch, this new patch is fantastic fun, it's brought pvp back to plexes. Sure, one day it might lead to Nenna being taken, but then meh, drop militia for a day JF/carrier jump all my ships to some nearby non-FW lowsec system and continue the pew pew.
I had already unsubbed my alt and was just waiting for this accounts sub to expire before this patch came out, and grudgingly gave the new patch a go, but DAMN. Eve crack is back! |
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:31:00 -
[131] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote: Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?
And again, plex bug was used by your side first, like most other bugs. I merely put it out for all to see.
Eve is fun for the most part. Balancing the fun and getting the tedious stuff done is a nice challenge too.
And thanks for pointing out and then emphasizing the bug. Hopefully CCP will fix it sooner rather than later. |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 16:49:00 -
[132] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it. There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed).
Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:02:00 -
[133] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it. There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed). Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.
That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1.
I assume that "count down to zero" you mean "count back to the default start state", not "count down and then auto-capture" because the latter would be crazy exploited.
That means if you are chasing an plexer that doesn't want to fight at all, at the very least he's not making any progress while you chase him. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:05:00 -
[134] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Julius Foederatus wrote: Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.
That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1. Not a bad start.
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:45:00 -
[135] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Joanna Ramirez wrote:Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think? Not since this new patch, this new patch is fantastic fun, it's brought pvp back to plexes. Sure, one day it might lead to Nenna being taken, but then meh, drop militia for a day JF/carrier jump all my ships to some nearby non-FW lowsec system and continue the pew pew. I had already unsubbed my alt and was just waiting for this accounts sub to expire before this patch came out, and grudgingly gave the new patch a go, but DAMN. Eve crack is back!
lol too funny Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:47:00 -
[136] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:Julius Foederatus wrote: Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.
That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1. Not a bad start.
I would endorse Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:47:00 -
[137] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.
*climbs in his boat*
Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now
AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT Well all i can say is you dont see things as aparently most people do. It is called a numbers game. If you can field a crap ton more plexers and keep them going as cheap as you guys can then you can do what is happening. Look at the numbers. Caldari are outplexing everyone by 3000-4000+ victory points a day and yes this is due in large to Alts with low sp running timers all over with no resistence. It does not matter if they are in backwater systems or Nenna. Same as any other war it is a numbers game and when you put up larger numbers like that you can not win no matter what. It is going to happen that we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened. I know it feels good to win but doing it without pvp or any resistence is pretty lame. Try getting out of your tanking interceptor and fighting for a change Bolster. Lets see you laugh when we destroy you some more.
you're still here? The funny farm is that way ----------> Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Cutout Man
Archimedean Point
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:50:00 -
[138] - Quote
sorry for only reading page 1, but:
why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 17:51:00 -
[139] - Quote
Cutout Man wrote:sorry for only reading page 1, but:
why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible.
why can you afk mine Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 18:11:00 -
[140] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it. There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed).
You assume the only way to promote pvp is to force someone to engage. Thats simply not true.
A notification system combined with the ending of the stupid station lock out rule would promote much more pvp in plexes.
Why are so many people doing afk plexes? Because they can get away with it very easilly. Why can they get away with it? Because no one wants to keep chasing them to keep eyes on where they are going.
Solution: Have the npcs keep eyes on them and report when they enter plexes. That way the pvpers can be fighting or doing timers assured that their work isn't just going to be undone by alt plexers the minute they leave system.
We don't force them to pvp but we take away allot of their efficiency at alt plexing. It brings us much closer to the ultimate goal of having everyone who enters a plex be fit and ready to fight for it.
This combined with something like the timer count down would go a long way. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 18:12:00 -
[141] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Cutout Man wrote:sorry for only reading page 1, but:
why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible. why can you afk mine
You can't lock someone out of a station because you mined in the system for 10 hours. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
255
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 18:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
You assume the only way to promote pvp is to force someone to engage. Thats simply not true.
A notification system combined with the ending of the stupid station lock out rule would promote much more pvp in plexes.
Why are so many people doing afk plexes? Because they can get away with it very easilly. Why can they get away with it? Because no one wants to keep chasing them to keep eyes on where they are going.
Solution: Have the npcs keep eyes on them and report when they enter plexes. That way the pvpers can be fighting or doing timers assured that their work isn't just going to be undone by alt plexers the minute they leave system.
We don't force them to pvp but we take away allot of their efficiency at alt plexing. It brings us much closer to the ultimate goal of having everyone who enters a plex be fit and ready to fight for it.
This combined with something like the timer count down would go a long way.
You misread. I said that pvp occurs when two sides decide to engage.
But agreed. Julius' timer idea plus notification system gets us closer to where we want to be.
|
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:05:00 -
[143] - Quote
Why don't you just make all plexes more difficult the more contested a system is. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:53:00 -
[144] - Quote
Abannan wrote:Why don't you just make all plexes more difficult the more contested a system is.
Because then plexing becomes more about pve than pvp, and those people running those plexes in contested systems would be more likely to just warp away when you come into a plex than fight. |
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:56:00 -
[145] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Abannan wrote:Why don't you just make all plexes more difficult the more contested a system is. Because then plexing becomes more about pve than pvp, and those people running those plexes in contested systems would be more likely to just warp away when you come into a plex than fight.
I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils |
Kuehnelt
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:59:00 -
[146] - Quote
Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils
It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 20:03:00 -
[147] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs.
....no one reads..... Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 20:14:00 -
[148] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Kuehnelt wrote:Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs. ....no one reads.....
Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 20:26:00 -
[149] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Julius Foederatus wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo. There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it. There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed). Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight. That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1. I assume that "count down to zero" you mean "count back to the default start state", not "count down and then auto-capture" because the latter would be crazy exploited. That means if you are chasing an plexer that doesn't want to fight at all, at the very least he's not making any progress while you chase him.
Yeah I did mean back to the starting point, not auto capture. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 20:54:00 -
[150] - Quote
Cearain wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Kuehnelt wrote:Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs. ....no one reads..... Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me.
They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN. |
|
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 21:27:00 -
[151] - Quote
Julius I do like your plan with the timer. But i feel that the damage dealt in certain plexes should be or how it is dealt in certain plexes also needs to be addressed but i do like you plan with the timer.
Just to add on what if a defender is in the plex defensive plexing and a war target chases him out or pie do you think the timer should count back to 0? |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 21:43:00 -
[152] - Quote
That idea was just in response to XG's post I quoted originally. It's definitely not the end all solution to the NPC balance woes.
I don't really think it would be too bad if it also affected defensive plexes. Probably would be easier to code as well. However, part of me feels there should be some sort of defender's advantage, so maybe it would be good on just offensive plexes. To be honest though, I do lean towards having it for both offensive and defensive ends of the plexing spectrum. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:11:00 -
[153] - Quote
I have soloed some Caldari Majors with the new Incurses on the test server however on Tranquillity I prefer minor plexes with a PVP fit (I am rubbish anyway so the enemy really have nothing to worry about)
If someone really does not want to fight I am not sure even the timer change or forcing them to ship up would make them, the rewards for PVP need to be greater or something more fundamental needs to change with timers and NPCGÇÖs. Extra LP for PVP within a plex, timer deductions for kills or perhaps it needs some form of loss mitigation such as and increased pay-out for ship loss while in a plex.
As stated earlier consequences for not engaging, maybe standing losses if you start a plex and then it is lost. Also if the timer is to count down by itself and you want to defend as well then perhaps it should go down even faster.
Defensive plexing needs some form of reward; even if it is small I support the LP restore to the hub ideas being touted. Should defensive plexing trigger enemy NPC spawns if you are the only ship in the plex (especially at higher contested percentages) at least there would be more of an activity to it, but more NPCGÇÖs does not really sound like the way to go.
Removing all E-war I worry will just make Gallente (and Amarr) complexes even easier, the NPCGÇÖs already cannot hit the side of a station door and would now not even provide e-war assistance. In some ways I have learnt to deal with ECM, drones ftw.
If they are looking for Gallente style missile NPCGÇÖs then I remember some missile Celestis in the Gallente Epic arc. (ItGÇÖs the microwarpdriving Hypes that are really scary in those missions though)
|
Mirana Niranne
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns.
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[154] - Quote
Dopified, it works like this.
Caldari outnumber us by something like 2000 pilots, yet we still kill more of them than they kill of us.
You talk about leveling the playing field, well then I think the argument is that if you make things fair, we'll really start bending them over.
I mean, I was engaged last night by a SPROT Raven with light launchers, nanos and 100m plates. I'm looking at the guy's fit and thinking to myself, thank GOD they have an easier time plexing, or they'd all probably get frustrated and quit from being overtaxed.
So forgive the caldari for needing the plexing advantage. If they were forced to, you know, PVP, things might swing in our favor, and that's unacceptable and unbalanced. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
226
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:54:00 -
[155] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Cearain wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Kuehnelt wrote:Abannan wrote:I can't think of any other way of getting aroudn the afk plexing alts apart from making the plexes progressivly harder. Just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils It's quite easy: require the destruction of the NPCs. ....no one reads..... Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me. They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN.
You guys would just complain about something else not being fair. I still find it funny that in a few weeks since the patch Gals have gone from trolling Caldari because you expected to get a easy win after the FW update to complaining about losing and blaming it on NPC's.
You guys need to get off your asses and fight back. You guys are very lazy and unwilling to leave your blob behind.. That is why you are losing. The war front has changed and your blobs & sitting in 1 or 2 system with 30 or 40 of your closest buddies, will not help you.
The unexpected truth of the new plexing system is it has given a buff to smaller gang fighting, something Caldari has been doing for quite some time now. Caldari aren't running around with AFK condors farming plexes, winning the war with noob alts.. The bulk of Caldari's I see out are running minors in Dessies/frigs with PVP fits and fighting over plexes vs the few Gals that show up or local pies.
Gals on other hand sit in their home system do almost no defense and cry on forums about NPC's being unfair expecting to just undock 20 or 30 guys to chase a random noob, thinking that will win the war for them.
The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes. |
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:25:00 -
[156] - Quote
Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me. [/quote]
They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN.[/quote]
You guys would just complain about something else not being fair. I still find it funny that in a few weeks since the patch Gals have gone from trolling Caldari because you expected to get a easy win after the FW update to complaining about losing and blaming it on NPC's.
You guys need to get off your asses and fight back. You guys are very lazy and unwilling to leave your blob behind.. That is why you are losing. The war front has changed and your blobs & sitting in 1 or 2 system with 30 or 40 of your closest buddies, will not help you.
The unexpected truth of the new plexing system is it has given a buff to smaller gang fighting, something Caldari has been doing for quite some time now. Caldari aren't running around with AFK condors farming plexes, winning the war with noob alts.. The bulk of Caldari's I see out are running minors in Dessies/frigs with PVP fits and fighting over plexes vs the few Gals that show up or local pies.
Gals on other hand sit in their home system do almost no defense and cry on forums about NPC's being unfair expecting to just undock 20 or 30 guys to chase a random noob, thinking that will win the war for them.
The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.[/quote]
Completely agree... we were rolling in a fleet of 8 BC or lower ships in nen area and we couldnt even get them to undock. and they complain about afk plex farmers.....0.o
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:27:00 -
[157] - Quote
Dear Gallente,
The Caldari are gonna take all your systems.
Yours Faithfully, IbanezLaney Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
NOM NOM NOM... these system's taste like elitist pvp tears to anyone else? |
Commissar Veldt
Progressive State State Section 9
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:39:00 -
[159] - Quote
Whether or not one faction has the advantage over others, it doesnt seem to have stopped the Federation in having a great deal of success. You have managed to remove the State Protectorate entirely from Enaluri (and hold the system), capture numerous strategic station systems in Black Rise (and hold them) and can rally highly organised fleets to successfully defend/capture complexes. My point being that even if it is un-balanced, it cant be so much that it is stopping the disadvantaged side from not only participating, but also succeeding in Faction Warfare. I dont have a Gallente alt and have never captured Minmatar complexes so I can not say that dopfied is definately right or horribly wrong. I am sure that Faction Warfare and complexes can be improved further with more fixes/tweaks/adjustments on all sides but to treat it as a dramatically un-balanced feature of EVE is perhaps a bit too over the top? As I said, the Federation still get good results in Militia overall so hopefully CCP will take this into account before making any major changes.
I do hope this 'temporary re-balancing' removal of electronic warfare isnt the start of a new trend... Im sure nobody would enjoy all having to fly the same ship types into generic complex #03 to destroy the same NPC's/pilots who use the same turrets to hit for the same damage type just so we can all sit comfortably in the knowledge that we are all on a completely equal playing field... I dont have a Gallente alt and have never captured Minmatar complexes so I am not saying that you are right or wrong Dopified. You still make a fair point and CCP have obviously heard this argument quite a lot of times. I am sure there is room for some more changes in Faction Warfare (there always is right?) but I just think the evidence offered from killboards (QCATS recent achievement), systems contested/occupied and my own personal experiences in militia (getting raped on a regular basis by your pilots) says that this issue is perhaps being blown slightly out of proportion by the general militia forum populace?
Let me please add that I am not against having the EW re-balanced in complexes at all.
Anyway, from a Caldari point of view, there is one bonus to having EW removed from complexes... I can finally stop wasting a mid slot on a sensor booster. Extra Invul Field II anyone?
Veldt |
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
212
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:41:00 -
[160] - Quote
Commissar Veldt wrote:
A lot of stuff that makes perfect sense.
WIsh we'd see more balanced opinions like yours rather than everyone either screaming end of the world or working as intended. If you ever decide to leave caldari, your app to S0TF would have a p good shot. |
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 03:19:00 -
[161] - Quote
Commissar Veldt wrote:I do hope this 'temporary re-balancing' removal of electronic warfare isnt the start of a new trend... Im sure nobody would enjoy all having to fly the same ship types into generic complex #03 to destroy the same NPC's/pilots who use the same turrets to hit for the same damage type just so we can all sit comfortably in the knowledge that we are all on a completely equal playing field... \
Unless you fly for more than one militia you basically get this now.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
256
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 04:30:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
176
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 04:49:00 -
[163] - Quote
Combination of "Kill them All!" requirement, removal of the bug generator and the timer band-aid Julius suggested: Post 31 of this thread
Solves most current plex/NPC balance issues, but will probably need quite a lot of Dev time so probably won't happen .. at least not until they set about expanding FW to include MOAR! factions (ie. Thar be Pirates!).
Mirana Niranne wrote:Caldari outnumber us by something like 2000 pilots, yet we still kill more of them than they kill of us... And in case of World War III the Chinese outnumber the US by one billion, right? The militia enrolment numbers has absolutely nothing to do with what is active/in space so for your own good, don't going down that blind alley in the future
Commissar Veldt wrote:...on fear of homogeneous gameplay... If we were to get a properly nuanced AI, then the NPCs themselves could be as powerful as Jove/Concord. Since the AI is lacking axing eWar is the only reliable way to ensure that they have as little say as possible in the plex pew (short of despawning them which would be abused to high heaven ).
Add your thoughts/concerns to the FW Plex NPC thread in the Features&Ideas forum sticky (goes for everyone else for that matter). |
Yuri Szarkhov
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:53:00 -
[164] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate.
Thought it was twelve?
Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
256
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:03:00 -
[165] - Quote
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing. |
Yuri Szarkhov
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:38:00 -
[166] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.
Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:10:00 -
[167] - Quote
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing. Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.
Enjoy it well ya got it I guess. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec. Were is the FW exclusive frigate sized ship? I see the cruiser and battle ship.......... |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 09:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.
that does not take long. |
Stalking Mantis
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:32:00 -
[169] - Quote
Confirming Minmatar can now capture an Amarr Major Plex with an afterburner fitted armor repping rifter.
Whereby taking on a minmatar Major plex with anything less than a drake or at least two pilots is a lost cause.
Please fix this. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:40:00 -
[170] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote:
Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me.
They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN.[/quote]
You guys would just complain about something else not being fair. I still find it funny that in a few weeks since the patch Gals have gone from trolling Caldari because you expected to get a easy win after the FW update to complaining about losing and blaming it on NPC's.
You guys need to get off your asses and fight back. You guys are very lazy and unwilling to leave your blob behind.. That is why you are losing. The war front has changed and your blobs & sitting in 1 or 2 system with 30 or 40 of your closest buddies, will not help you.
The unexpected truth of the new plexing system is it has given a buff to smaller gang fighting, something Caldari has been doing for quite some time now. Caldari aren't running around with AFK condors farming plexes, winning the war with noob alts.. The bulk of Caldari's I see out are running minors in Dessies/frigs with PVP fits and fighting over plexes vs the few Gals that show up or local pies.
Gals on other hand sit in their home system do almost no defense and cry on forums about NPC's being unfair expecting to just undock 20 or 30 guys to chase a random noob, thinking that will win the war for them.
The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.[/quote]
Completely agree... we were rolling in a fleet of 8 BC or lower ships in nen area and we couldnt even get them to undock. and they complain about afk plex farmers.....0.o [/quote]
This is a pretty funny comment especially from a NC DOT group that has come to Caldari Militia and then super blobbed the Gal's. I mean well done for the attack boys but then you go and post up that we blob I mean come on WOW. |
|
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:02:00 -
[171] - Quote
Commissar Veldt wrote:Whether or not one faction has the advantage over others, it doesnt seem to have stopped the Federation in having a great deal of success. You have managed to remove the State Protectorate entirely from Enaluri (and hold the system), capture numerous strategic station systems in Black Rise (and hold them) and can rally highly organised fleets to successfully defend/capture complexes. My point being that even if it is un-balanced, it cant be so much that it is stopping the disadvantaged side from not only participating, but also succeeding in Faction Warfare. I dont have a Gallente alt and have never captured Minmatar complexes so I can not say that dopfied is definately right or horribly wrong. I am sure that Faction Warfare and complexes can be improved further with more fixes/tweaks/adjustments on all sides but to treat it as a dramatically un-balanced feature of EVE is perhaps a bit too over the top? As I said, the Federation still get good results in Militia overall so hopefully CCP will take this into account before making any major changes.
I do hope this 'temporary re-balancing' removal of electronic warfare isnt the start of a new trend... Im sure nobody would enjoy all having to fly the same ship types into generic complex #03 to destroy the same NPC's/pilots who use the same turrets to hit for the same damage type just so we can all sit comfortably in the knowledge that we are all on a completely equal playing field... Dopified, you have made a fair point and CCP have obviously heard this argument quite a lot of times by the sound of it. I am sure there is room for some more changes in Faction Warfare (there always is right?) but I just think the evidence offered from killboards (QCATS recent achievement), systems contested/occupied and my own personal experiences in militia (getting raped on a regular basis by your pilots) says that this issue is perhaps being blown slightly out of proportion by the general militia forum populace?
Let me please add that I am not against having the EW re-balanced in complexes at all.
Anyway, from a Caldari point of view, there is one bonus to having EW removed from complexes... I can finally stop wasting a mid slot on a sensor booster. Extra Invul Field II anyone?
Veldt
I can understand your position on this and actually respect you for stating actual truths here. The point that I am trying to make is that it is unbalanced. It should not be the job of CCP to make it easier or harder for one side of faction warefare. No matter how little of an advantage or disadvantage you think it is. The advantage should always come from THE PLAYER. Some of us in militia have put forth an effort and have given ourselves the advantage by tactics and hard work. When it comes to plexes and NEW mechanics, when a caldari can run a major plex in a pvp fit t1 frig deep in gallente space or close turn around and be ready to fight us is unfair. Gallente cannot go into a caldari MAJOR plex with this and have the option of fighting afterwards or even in the plex as stated and shown in my first post. Lets also get it straight I have posted that EW NPC's are not the problem. I think they are a great idea. The problem is the incoming Damage for the gallente with missile spams. No matter how much we speed tank a major you take massive amounts of damage thus having very few options when fitting a ship to run plexes, thus in turn alot of people can not go out sit in a plex and when a fight comes along be ready to engage anytime. With station lockouts we cannot move past our lines and pvp effectively thus the reason why some of our guys dont go 2-3 jumps past thier home when plexing and pvping. STATION LOCKOUT MEANS WE CANNOT RESHIP EASY TO FIGHT WHEN YOU DO COME.
If the gallente start losing and it is shown that the caldari start winning in PVP and PLEXING would you advocate for the caldari to swap the plexing mechanics thus giving gallente speed tanking so that they can have an advantage and caldari to take massive missiles spams???? Is this what i am hearing? Again I do not think it is CCP's place to give advantages to one side or the other, it needs to be equal in all regards. The advantage SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYER ACHIEVED.
Veldt gets respect from me even though i am not on the same page with this idea. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
256
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:04:00 -
[172] - Quote
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have. Redefining words is something you certainly do. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:14:00 -
[173] - Quote
Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it.
If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced"
The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing.
I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others.
You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:37:00 -
[174] - Quote
Dopified wrote:thus giving gallente speed tanking so that they can have an advantage and caldari to take massive missiles spams???? Is this what i am hearing? Again I do not think it is CCP's place to give advantages to one side or the other, it needs to be equal in all regards. The advantage SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYER ACHIEVED.
You have simply argued that you dont want AFK plexing with no skill alts (and no, I have not seen condors speed tanking either) and think that speed tanking is wrong because it can be done. Yet I have not yet heard you say single bad word about that low-skilled afk tanking incursus pilots coming from gallente side.
How do these differ from each other? Is "active tanking" more manly option of afking than "speed tanking" and thus justified? It's not like any t1 vanilla t1 frigate stays in a fight in a plex anyway if it's tanking full npc spawn at the same time (unless it's something like Bantam coming to attack it) |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:38:00 -
[175] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it. If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced" The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing. I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others. You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems.......
Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch.
Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE.
So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this.
Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's
PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:43:00 -
[176] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's
You are living in your own reality. I have already said afk plexing is stupid but you are not willing to admit your side is doing it almost as much as caldari. Only difference really is that your side has to shoehorn afk plexing to new incursus hull while caldari have more options for afk plexing.
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:50:00 -
[177] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it. If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced" The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing. I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others. You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch. Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE. So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this. Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA
Ok so you are simply mad at the mechanics and using a disillusioned argument to say that we are "afk plexing" I can also say you afk mission since you use an interceptor to speed tank your missions and a bomber to simply cloak and shoot.
You think caldari can just orbit a button and walk away without watching damage. Hell I was "speed tanking" a major plex last night and hit deep armor. You cant say it is "afk plexing" I am putting my time into plexing a system with a ship that has a disadvantage of not being able to fight and I still have to sit and watch, I also do not have the ability to dock up in a station a repair.
Seriously dude go join Ceaseran and his whining in the other threads. We have no just uncovered that umadbro
I have speed tanked gallente plexes without a problem as well. The problem that the gallente have is jamming not missile spam. I know this because I flew gallente.
Just get some of your own pilots out and actually do something.
BTW thanks for odamia, our afk condors totally did it on their own
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth? |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
256
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:06:00 -
[179] - Quote
It is just as absurd for a Caldari player in a rifter to be able to speed tank a major as it is for a Gallente player to speed tank a plex in an incursus. I demand the Federation hire NPC commanders that don't surrender simply because somebody in a tiny T1 frigate orbits a button for a set period of time. These guys need to grow a spine! |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
176
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:07:00 -
[180] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it. If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced" The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing. I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others. You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch. Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE. So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this. Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA Ok so you are simply mad at the mechanics and using a disillusioned argument to say that we are "afk plexing" I can also say you afk mission since you use an interceptor to speed tank your missions and a bomber to simply cloak and shoot. You think caldari can just orbit a button and walk away without watching damage. Hell I was "speed tanking" a major plex last night and hit deep armor. You cant say it is "afk plexing" I am putting my time into plexing a system with a ship that has a disadvantage of not being able to fight and I still have to sit and watch, I also do not have the ability to dock up in a station a repair. Seriously dude go join Ceaseran and his whining in the other threads. We have no just uncovered that umadbro I have speed tanked gallente plexes without a problem as well. The problem that the gallente have is jamming not missile spam. I know this because I flew gallente. Just get some of your own pilots out and actually do something. BTW thanks for odamia, our afk condors totally did it on their own
DotLan tells the story of the mighty battle of odamia lol
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Odamia http://clip2net.com/s/20vic |
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:09:00 -
[181] - Quote
Dopified wrote:Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth?
just on you Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:11:00 -
[182] - Quote
What your trying to say Damar/Bolster is ... mouth breathing re re with no sp afking a gal major == max skilled incursus while micromanaging cap/reps to complete caldari major
I mean I guess that makes sense if your the re re... Is sexy time? |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:17:00 -
[183] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Dopified wrote:Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth? just on you
I guess because i was one of the only ones that thought nicely of you over here or was at least nice with how i treated you LMAO. On me. to funny |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:25:00 -
[184] - Quote
If everything is pretty much the same why is there so much resistance to having the npcs switch around every now and then?
Why are there no fits posted to support these claims?
Actually they could have some gallente plexes guarded by cooperating minmatar npcs and some minmatar plexes guarded by gallente. The amarr and caldari could also cooperate in this fashion. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:29:00 -
[185] - Quote
Dopified wrote:BolsterBomb wrote:Dopified wrote:Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth? just on you I guess because i was one of the only ones that thought nicely of you over here or was at least nice with how i treated you LMAO. On me. to funny
OMG just stop already....yes dopified you are the master that took "poor ole' bolster in from the cold"
I bow to your presence "bolster sucks and without you I would be nothing"
Oh dopified please privileged us by providing us with your presence......
I fail who wants my stuff Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:48:00 -
[186] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Dopified wrote:Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's You are living in your own reality. I have already said afk plexing is stupid but you are not willing to admit your side is doing it almost as much as caldari. Only difference really is that your side has to shoehorn afk plexing to new permarunning repper incursus hull while caldari have more options for afk plexing. In both cases it does not matter what comes to challenge your plexing. If you are simply speed or repair tanking npcs without killing them, you are not in position to engage hostile vessels anyway.
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13530894
Again here is my evidence as stated in my first post and yes it was a good fight but look at the damage inflicted on him it did not change the fight at all. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
256
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:50:00 -
[187] - Quote
Cearain wrote:If everything is pretty much the same why is there so much resistance to having the npcs switch around every now and then?
Why are there no fits posted to support these claims?
Actually they could have some gallente plexes guarded by cooperating minmatar npcs and some minmatar plexes guarded by gallente. The amarr and caldari could also cooperate in this fashion. IMO, there's a few issues here. The "put missile spamming NPCs" only addresses the "fairness" issue.
1. Fairness - NPCs are imbalanced between races. 2. Overall game play - Nobody in a frig should make the NPC forces "surrender" simply by orbiting a button for 10-20 minutes. 3. Once your side wins a plex/bunker encounter (either a fight, or the other side bails), it loses. The immediate rewards for winning a plex/bunker bust when the other side bails favors the side that bails. The winning side gets "griefed" by being forced to orbit a button for a long period of time, or it moves on and the side that bails returns and finishes the job.
Dopified is right, NPCs for different militias aren't fair. Damar is right - All plexes can be won by pve oriented ships -even if an incursus cost 5 million more than a T1 rifter (seeing more bailing rifters than condors tbh).So what's the big deal? We can all afford 5 million isk incursuses. Everybody is right when they say it's gawd awful boring to sit in a plex after you've won it - especially if it didn't lead to a pvp encounter.
Hopefully CCP implements something that addresses all of these concerns (including the plex bug issue, plex standings issue and a few more issues Bad Messenger ought to put in a list and give to CCP).
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:51:00 -
[188] - Quote
At base CCP needs to decide if they want occupancy plexing to remain an activity that is best done in a pve ship or if they want to make it a pvp activity.
To the extent they increase the power and importance of npcs, they will make it more of a pve activity.
To the extent they make it easier for players to fight for plexes, they will make it more of a pvp activity. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:03:00 -
[189] - Quote
The biggest problem I see for removing NPCs from the plex is the local pirates now have a free pass to shut everyone down. Atleast with NPCs defensive plexing is bearable because you have help in the way of NPCs that also attack the pirate raiders. Remove that and nobody is going to defensive plex because unless it is your home system and you already have a lock down on the local pirate populace it just won't be worth it to stay there with -9.9s coming in every few mins chasing you. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
228
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:50:00 -
[190] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.
Humm it was 7 now 5.. We will see your 5 and raise you two captured Gallentte systems. Caldari forces have evicted the Gallente president from his slum lord offices in Ladistier, as well as captured Odamia.. (we are now losing by 3)
We are winning by losing.. It's like Charlie Sheen is our co-pilot. |
|
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:19:00 -
[191] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote: The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. Thought it was twelve? Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake. When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing. Humm it was 7 now 5.. We will see your 5 and raise you two captured Gallentte systems. Caldari forces have evicted the Gallente president from his slum lord offices in Ladistier, as well as captured Odamia.. (we are now losing by 3) We are winning by losing.. It's like Charlie Sheen is our co-pilot. On the NPC battle front I still see lots of NPC kills in the captured systems Caldari have taken, 1000 in the last 24 hours in Odamia, over 2000 in Ladistier.. Meanwhile in systems like Kehjari that is under attack by the AFK Dramiel coalition, funded by Gallente Militia, there has been only 116 NPC deaths in the last 24 hours., despite plexes being run almost 23/7. Things that make you go hummm. Could it be Gallente are just lazy & want to make excuses or could these 2 week old alts whom are farming Kehjari in AFK Dramiels, just happen to be elite Gallente plexers that are just much better than the rest of Gal Militia?
qft
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
257
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:24:00 -
[192] - Quote
[quote=Mutnin ]Humm it was 7 now 5..[ /quote] Do the math. You're still behind. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
257
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:24:00 -
[193] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Humm it was 7 now 5..[ /quote] Do the math. You're still behind.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
292
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:47:00 -
[194] - Quote
Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.
+1 for making fw plex require all rats to be killed. Or you could speed up the timer if rats are killed. Say you get a time bonus for killing each wave so you can speed tank a minor in 15 minutes or kill all the rats and complete it in 10 mins. Defensive plex needs to give something, even if it is only 2 lp just so it doesn't seem like you are wasting your time.
Upgrade bonuses are really lackluster as well. Clone costs - who cares it is low sec you rarely get podded and market tax and more slots aren't useful because most systems have no stations. I'd rather have a 5% boost to scan resolution or sensor strength per upgrade level or something. Or how about cheaper insurance or free repair or PI boost. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:00:00 -
[195] - Quote
So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness!
Vaal Erit wrote:Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.
Is sexy time? |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:20:00 -
[196] - Quote
I solo plex in PVP fits.
I am the 1%. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
458
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:01:00 -
[197] - Quote
Jones looks pretty cool in his goggles.
Mutnin and XG, not so much.
Why is that?
I do think it would be mildly amusing to see an animation of XG and Mutnin arguing with eachother about how to count to 7 in their goggles.
Maybe ccp should give up on faction war and go back to working on incarna. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:04:00 -
[198] - Quote
Brutor + goggles = sexytime |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
86
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:22:00 -
[199] - Quote
Schalac wrote:The biggest problem I see for removing NPCs from the plex is the local pirates now have a free pass to shut everyone down. Atleast with NPCs defensive plexing is bearable because you have help in the way of NPCs that also attack the pirate raiders. Remove that and nobody is going to defensive plex because unless it is your home system and you already have a lock down on the local pirate populace it just won't be worth it to stay there with -9.9s coming in every few mins chasing you.
What do you mean it's not worth it?! It's called you just sit there and fights come to you. Isn't that really the whole purpose of the FW plexes? ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Gunthar X
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:59:00 -
[200] - Quote
After 10 pages I have a simple solution for the Gallente in this grand war.
I know its complicated so I will make sure to state it clearly and simply.
DEFEND YOUR SPACE.
There, CCP no need for coding or spending more time on this I think my solution should solve all problems for FW. When we have attempted to take systems and the enemy has shown up in force to defend a system we either have to fight hard for it or run away and go after another system. If you sit in the station all day, or form your 45 man fleet with 4 neutral boosters and roam around FW space for hours while 4 of your systems are at 60% or higher then you will lose your space, the same can be said for every other militia. If the Amarr choose to run around minni space while one of their systems was at 75% then getting mad at CCP because they lost their space would anyone care? If you don't like the FW mechanics as they are come up with solutions that do not fix just your own little problem, the Amarr are in a much worse position than the Gallente because their NPC's are useless while the Minni's NPC's are a pain in the butt. Not to mention the MinniGÇÖs ships are specifically designed and built to kill Amarr so they work extremely well against them. I think the Amarr rats are the ones with the best case for change and buffing not the GalGÇÖs.
You need to choose your place within your militia if you want to form fleets and run around trying to PVP while ignoring your systems then don't blames CCP's "broken NPC's" for you losing those systems. It wasn't CCP's fault we lost the systems we have lost it was our decision to not defend them in any way NPCGÇÖs were not the reason. If you want to win you put in the work and you coordinate your fleets to fight for your militia and not your killboard. We are taking systems because we are all working together on a common goal and each corp within the militia has taken it upon themselves to fight for the good of the militia not themselves. We form fleets and plex our butts off for the systems we want which in most cases are plexed for days in advance by active pilots or fleets for the express purpose of claiming them not the afk LP farmers.
Oh yea one more thing, how many missile centric ships do the Gallente have in their inventory? If I am not mistaken the Gallente use hybrids and drones for the majority of their ships correct, so why would CCP "invent" ships that spam missiles just so afk LP farmers can't solo a plex? The Caldari use missiles just like the minni's use projectiles and the Amarr die uselessly this is the price you pay for using only the ships of the particular race. Instead of adding artificial buffing for the plexs just removed the NPC's all together and make a ping go off in the FW tab that someone is running a plex in XXXX system. I guess this would mean something if you actually defended your space beyond your home system.
|
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:32:00 -
[201] - Quote
No one on either side is really defending their space, squids lost 1 last night, will lose two or three more by the weekend. gals will lose another by weekend. This **** will flip flop constantly. It's gotten a bit better since QCATS started getting that sweet minmatar LP for running caldari plexes :)
Gunthar X wrote:After 10 pages I have a simple solution for the Gallente in this grand war.
I know its complicated so I will make sure to state it clearly and simply.
DEFEND YOUR SPACE.
Is sexy time? |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:07:00 -
[202] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote:Schalac wrote:The biggest problem I see for removing NPCs from the plex is the local pirates now have a free pass to shut everyone down. Atleast with NPCs defensive plexing is bearable because you have help in the way of NPCs that also attack the pirate raiders. Remove that and nobody is going to defensive plex because unless it is your home system and you already have a lock down on the local pirate populace it just won't be worth it to stay there with -9.9s coming in every few mins chasing you. What do you mean it's not worth it?! It's called you just sit there and fights come to you. Isn't that really the whole purpose of the FW plexes? If all you want to do is fight it doesn't matter where you sit in low sec. |
Lord Ryan
Quantum Cats Syndicate
526
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 18:11:00 -
[203] - Quote
Been using guns, reppers and boosters on my fits. Am I the only onw who kills the rats? Guess I'm doing it wrong again! -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 18:13:00 -
[204] - Quote
Na I kill them all as well...cant bring myself to fly anything that is not fit for pvp
Lord Ryan wrote:Been using guns, reppers and boosters on my fits. Am I the only onw who kills the rats? Guess I'm doing it wrong again!
Is sexy time? |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:28:00 -
[205] - Quote
You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie. You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF. You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC.
I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these. |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:40:00 -
[206] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie. You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF. You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC. I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.
You are correct in saying this and i agree with you 100%. This can be done in pvp ships. My origional arguement was that caldari and minmatar can do this with all three plex sizes in a pvp t1 frig.
And i quote from my first post
"This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers."
This is what i want changed. Thier ability to run all plexes in a t1 pvp frig give a massive advantage to a side because you can stay out in the field deep in enamy territory with one ship that can run easily or stay and fight because you are already set up. You also dont use ammo. The ammar and gallente cannot do this. I believe that this makes a difference in people plexing because they have the option of fighting pvp or running plexes for LP when no pvp is around. Yes the gallente want to pvp more then fight but if we could do this you would see more numbers doing it. You can run a minor med and major and keep going because all the respawns will hit right after the last plex is done. This makes a big difference because in one ship type you can keep running a systems plexes 24/7 all hours without reshipping. THIS MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:28:00 -
[207] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:No one on either side is really defending their space, squids lost 1 last night, will lose two or three more by the weekend. gals will lose another by weekend. This **** will flip flop constantly. It's gotten a bit better since QCATS started getting that sweet minmatar LP for running caldari plexes :) Gunthar X wrote:After 10 pages I have a simple solution for the Gallente in this grand war.
I know its complicated so I will make sure to state it clearly and simply.
DEFEND YOUR SPACE.
Actually we do defend quite a lot, but Nag was an acceptable loss because no one really lives in that area. Aside from that it's not worth the wasted asset loss getting around Snuff Box's insta locking T3 camps that catch frigs & everything else.
We have however pushed forward in Black Rise and protect stuff there even before the patch aside from useless systems like Iwisoda or other wasted dead end systems.
We defend our space quite well, but under this new system you have to accept certain losses will happen once you get to a peak capture status, at that point it's not worth the wasted time to defend a isolated or non tactical system when that defense time is better spent else where. Hell Caldari had 2 more Gal systems Vulnerable on Tue night, but we couldn't be assed to capture them because they serve no purpose. Alamel & Als were both vulnerable (dunno if they still are) but both were left un-captured because we really didn't need to take them.
What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes. |
Shadow Adanza
Colonial Marines EVE Division Villore Accords
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:39:00 -
[208] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:
What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes.
... why would the Gallente defend them (for no LP rewards) when we could let them fall and then get sweet sweet LP just one jump from home for plexing it back?
Win or lose, it's just a game. Respect your enemies and your teammates. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:44:00 -
[209] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes.
Personally, I would prefer all systems one jump from nenna be caldari owned - then I would get my sweet sweet minmatar LP for plexing in them while still be close to home for fleet ops.
It'll be sad if Immuri/Hikko/Akidagi get taken. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
261
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:10:00 -
[210] - Quote
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have. Hey by both of our definitions, Gallente FW is winning! How about that? |
|
SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
A possible solution for defensive plexing might be to replace/add the LP to the system that otherwise would have been taken if the plex was captured offensively - this gives the defensive plexer that little bit of tangible reward without physically giving them anything.
So: If 10k LP would have been given to the group offensively plexing (5k from the bunker and 5k from space) then a defensive plex of the same level would regenerate that 5k LP into the bunker.
Thoughts? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:00:00 -
[212] - Quote
SigmaPi wrote:...Thoughts? If the amount returned to the bunker is equal to what is lost by offensive means, then every system need only be invested in once per flip-cycle .. makes for a very poor LP sink. Defensive plexing is by its nature a lot less demanding, doubly so with docking denial for attackers, and while some sort of payment is in order for defensive work (time is spent regardless) then it does not have to be a lot .. must not expand on the FarmVilleGäó concept any further after all
25% percent of a given plex value into the pilots pocket and another 25% into the bunker (provided it has been drained by attack)., that should be more than enough to make defence worth while if/when the upgrade trees are made more relevant to FW.
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:19:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie. You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF. You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC.
I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.
Depends who you fly for. For amarr most pvp BCs will not be able to run major plex after major plex without docking to repair or get more cap boosters. Even with the restricted majors. The unrestricted majors you are looking at a pve bc or battleship.
Mediums can be run in certain shield tanked cruisers but almost any buffer armor tank is a no go. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Yuri Szarkhov
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 04:33:00 -
[214] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have. Hey by both of our definitions, Gallente FW is winning! How about that?
I'm curious about the length of your yardstick on that measurement.
It seems to me that since the "Rules of the War" changed (May 22) The Caldari have taken a sum of nine systems, one of which the Gallente recovered yesterday (Immuri) and two of which are Gallente Sovereign systems (Odamia and Ladistier.) So, that leaves six in the Caldari "neigbourhood" we've taken since the Inferno patch went live.
That's not so bad, considering how many (mysself included) expected the war to completely stagnate after Inferno.
In that time the Gallente have taken a total of three systems, one of which being Immuri, which we took only a few days prior. Two in the last two days.
It may also be worthy to note that none of the systems the Gallente militia took in this time contain stations.
So, eight systems taken and held versus three in the same period.
I'll grant that if our efforts stall and we cease the taking of systems and the Gallente pick up their pace this could be a "turning point." But, it really doesn't look that way. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
261
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 04:45:00 -
[215] - Quote
I thought you were talking about momentum such as Gallente flipping two systems (Nagamennan and Immuri) in the past 24 hours, and destroying a Caldari fleet in Alamel that itself was trying to bust a bunker - and still haven't for whatever reason. (Probably because you didn't want that system anyways or something like that).
|
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:43:00 -
[216] - Quote
Dopified wrote:My origional arguement was that caldari and minmatar can do this with all three plex sizes in a pvp t1 frig.
You are a MINMATAR, so what is the problem? By your own words you should be raking in the lp by taking all size plexes in your t1 frigate. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:55:00 -
[217] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Depends who you fly for. For amarr most pvp BCs will not be able to run major plex after major plex without docking to repair or get more cap boosters. Even with the restricted majors. The unrestricted majors you are looking at a pve bc or battleship.
Mediums can be run in certain shield tanked cruisers but almost any buffer armor tank is a no go.
Buffer Armor ships are always a bad idea if you do not have a place to dock and repair.
We are pretty consistently running Majors in groups of cruisers/frigs but I can easily solo them in a standard combat Drake. A shield Harb or Zealot would do way more DPS than my Drake and clear a major even faster.
I used self repping AFs or Frigs pretty often too. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Plexes are easy to run with standard combat fits.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
261
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:58:00 -
[218] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote: Plexes are easy to run with standard combat fits.
Which is how it should be. The only question is how to make them easy to run with standard combat fits but make it a PITA to run with PvE frigs. Allow appropriate sized ships to have an advantage in the appropriate sized plex. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
155
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:04:00 -
[219] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yuri Szarkhov wrote:Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have. Redefining words is something you certainly do. Bad Messenger wrote:that does not take long. Not disagreeing, but it needs to happen first.
Yea, still waiting when Gallente takes all systems, Andreus Ixibis already celebrated it so hard beforehand. |
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:08:00 -
[220] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness! Vaal Erit wrote:Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.
so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies??
|
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:23:00 -
[221] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness! Vaal Erit wrote:Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.
so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies??
The caldari militia is at WAR with the minmatar militia. You're hurting the enemy of the minmatar militia. |
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:31:00 -
[222] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Nave Drallig wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness! Vaal Erit wrote:Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.
so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies?? The caldari militia is at WAR with the minmatar militia. You're hurting the enemy of the minmatar militia. It's also quite amusing to see this being called an exploit: I don't think any QCATS have +5 to Caldari to permanently avoid rat aggro, and the documentation on FW has always been clear that allied factions can attack the dungeons of both of the militias they are at war with.
ok still dont see me refering to this as an exploit. just pointing out that you are trying to make something sound like your comming to the rescue when in reality your just taking advantage of that "sweet sweet mini LP" as one of your corp mates labeled it earlier.
also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:38:00 -
[223] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Cearain wrote: Depends who you fly for. For amarr most pvp BCs will not be able to run major plex after major plex without docking to repair or get more cap boosters. Even with the restricted majors. The unrestricted majors you are looking at a pve bc or battleship.
Mediums can be run in certain shield tanked cruisers but almost any buffer armor tank is a no go.
Buffer Armor ships are always a bad idea if you do not have a place to dock and repair. We are pretty consistently running Majors in groups of cruisers/frigs but I can easily solo them in a standard combat Drake. A shield Harb or Zealot would do way more DPS than my Drake and clear a major even faster. I used self repping AFs or Frigs pretty often too. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Plexes are easy to run with standard combat fits.
These comments are just regarding those fighting for amarr against the minmatar npcs:
Lots of people like buffer armor tanks for pvp. Especially at the cruiser level. No 1600 plate ruptures,vexors or thoraxes. Unless you want to kite them but then you are not on the button the whole time. As you say, you can't use them to run plexes.
But even a shield rupture can't solo them well or at all depending on the type. Even if you can make it before hitting armor you will likely have to warp off if an enemy comes. If someone else started the plex earlier and you have the build up of npcs forget about it.
If your favorite pvp cruiser is the caracal or some other active tank cruiser (I can't even think of one non faction t1 cruiser that I active tank) then you are right you will have no problem soloing the mediums in them. Otherwise though your options are a pretty limitted.
You can run closed majors in a heavy missile drake. But I would say running them in a ham drake will force you to run if any enemy pvpers that come during the majority of the time you are orbitting the button - unless you want to fight with less than half your tank.
Zealot I haven't tried. I generally like to fly cheaper/insurable ships in faction war. Shield harb does not work well, at least not the pulse harb I used. I haven't used a shield cane, but based on my experience with the ham drake its pretty unlikely to work, but the explosive damage profile may make it work out ok.
Have you soloed a major in any other ship besides a heavy missile drake? For the majority of the time you were there, if an enemy cam in, in the same sort of ship would you have to warp off? I generally go into plexes looking for pvp so fits where my tank is just about to break under npc fire is not really a good option for me.
But again we are talking only about restricted majors. Unrestricted majors you will likely have to warp out and kite off the button even in a heavy missile drake that is set up for pvp. They are very hard for even a non top skilled mostly pve dominix.
I don't fly allot of active tank pvp ships (and the few, I do use, use cap charges) so that might just be the difference between your experience and mine. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:42:00 -
[224] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote: ok still dont see me refering to this as an exploit. just pointing out that you are trying to make something sound like your comming to the rescue when in reality your just taking advantage of that "sweet sweet mini LP" as one of your corp mates labeled it earlier.
also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things.
The "exploit" part I was referring to who you quoted.
also, I believe I was the corp mate who called it "sweet sweet minnie LP"
Yes, game mechanics wise I am enjoying the minmatar LP. But the Minmatar are allied with the Gallente, and the Caldari is at war with them both, and I am attacking the Caldari. I see that as a pretty clear "I am attacking the entity that you are at war with, therefore I am helping you".
And I have no idea who Hatgris is, definitely not my alt. This wouldn't be the first time someone has made an alt name close to mine (See Chatgrus). |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 17:59:00 -
[225] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey,
We currently are looking at NPCs in the FW complexes. The plan is to remove all NPCs doing EW in all factions to equalize difficulty a bit. We won't touch the missile spam for now however as most of the NPCs are used in missions as well, but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. This also won't apply for FW missions, only FW complexes for now.
We also are looking into an issue that prevents FW complexes from despawning properly, which in turn prevents new sites from spawning until the next downtime. Estimated time for such changes is to have them out as soon as possible (sorry, can't give estimate though, still working on them as we speak).
Hope that helps a bit.
*yawn* again with the 'lets balance it by making everything the same'? CCP Ytterbium, you should be able to do better then that. You HAVE to do better then that.
How about balancing it by FINALLY adding some dynamic balancing mechanics to the game? Have the game keep track of completion rates, popularity , etc and have it adjust the difficulty on the fly by adding more ships with other abilities, or other nasty stuff.
The good thing about this is that you don't have to redo the whole thing manually again next year if CCP launches some new ships totally putting everything on it's head again.
Achieve balance by giving the other factions their own curve-balls to deal with, not simply remove all curve-balls! Be creative! Gallente plexes are too easy? Fine, have the game automatically start throwing stasis towers in the mix until the metrics match those of the Caldari.
Besides, equalizing downwards by making stuff easier is NOT the direction that belongs in EVE! Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:02:00 -
[226] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Besides, equalizing downwards by making stuff easier is NOT the direction that belongs in EVE!
This isn't meant to be pve content that's just being made easier: The rats are being adjusted so they do not impede PVP so much.
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:02:00 -
[227] - Quote
Quote:...but this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter. Rather pivotal line hidden in there .. he should have bolded it but 'meh' |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:06:00 -
[228] - Quote
Nothing is stopping you from running plexes with armor ships. I use armor thrashers for minors and armor Vexors (think drones \o/) for mediums. For majors I would imagine you at least have to fit a local rep on a myrm/cane/harb/etc.
Your arguments are not valid for me. Plexes never get my shield Rupture below 90% and my Drake never dips below 80% in majors. Your argument sounds like: I should be able to run a plex against NPCs solo and fight whatever player comes to kill me without a thought to my fit.
Good luck with that. BTW, I've ran majors with 2 thrashers. Also, I do not think unrestricted majors were designed to be soloed by a BC. There's a reason they are unrestricted... |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:08:00 -
[229] - Quote
I guess I honestly don't understand any of the issues you're complaining about. I plex in solo PVP fits all the time. No problems. And I get a ton of kills. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:10:00 -
[230] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:I guess I honestly don't understand any of the issues you're complaining about. I plex in solo PVP fits all the time. No problems. And I get a ton of kills.
It will be a lot better once they remove EWAR from the rats: I have serious problems running a major in my drake due to the time I spend jammed (often a minute at a time). |
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:11:00 -
[231] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Tobiaz wrote:Besides, equalizing downwards by making stuff easier is NOT the direction that belongs in EVE! This isn't meant to be pve content that's just being made easier: The rats are being adjusted so they do not impede PVP so much.
There's nothing wrong with having to fight on a obstacle course. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:12:00 -
[232] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:chatgris wrote:Tobiaz wrote:Besides, equalizing downwards by making stuff easier is NOT the direction that belongs in EVE! This isn't meant to be pve content that's just being made easier: The rats are being adjusted so they do not impede PVP so much. There's nothing wrong with having to fight on a obstacle course.
Try getting a thorax into structure in a thrasher, and then being jammed for 3 full cycles (60s!) unable to do anything but sit there and die :P. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:18:00 -
[233] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Tobiaz wrote:chatgris wrote:Tobiaz wrote:Besides, equalizing downwards by making stuff easier is NOT the direction that belongs in EVE! This isn't meant to be pve content that's just being made easier: The rats are being adjusted so they do not impede PVP so much. There's nothing wrong with having to fight on a obstacle course. Try getting a thorax into structure in a thrasher, and then being jammed for 3 full cycles (60s!) unable to do anything but sit there and die :P.
I'll agree that ECM balance has issues, but this is an overall problem, which should be addressed instead of just removing all NPC that the players deem annoying.
Something like reducing ECM cycles to 5 seconds and giving drones the option to prioritize and auto-engage jamming ships. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Major Killz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:46:00 -
[234] - Quote
Interesting. Alot of the same arguments, issues, problems and concerns that have been made since the inception of faction warfare. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
113
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:54:00 -
[235] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Interesting. Alot of the same arguments, issues, problems and concerns that have been made since the inception of faction warfare.
Except now CCP is actually trying to fix the issues, for which myself (and many others) are quite thankful for. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:17:00 -
[236] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote:also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things. Hatgris is part of our legion of afk plexing atrons that are currently being onlined to help clean up the mess of people like you in afk plexing Merlins.
Lame? Yes. Necessary? Yes (adapt or die, right?). Otherwise we will be bored to tears running defensive plexes with our mains.
Should there be a mechanic that discourages weaponless T1 frigs from influencing the Occupancy War that doesn't involve chasing rabbits forever? Definitely. Hopefully CCP will get on it ASAP. (Suggestions: Kill all NPCs requirement for offensive, timer speed for defensive plexes based on ship brought to plex, timer moves back to baseline zero quickly if nobody is on button). |
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:23:00 -
[237] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Nave Drallig wrote:also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things. Hatgris is part of our legion of afk plexing atrons that are currently being onlined to help clean up the mess of people like you in afk plexing Merlins. Lame? Yes. Necessary? Yes (adapt or die, right?). Otherwise we will be bored to tears running defensive plexes with our mains. Should there be a mechanic that discourages weaponless T1 frigs from influencing the Occupancy War? Definitely. Hopefully CCP will get on it ASAP. (Suggestions: Kill all NPCs requirement for offensive, timer speed for defensive plexes based on ship brought to plex).
see as previously stated i play to win. and thats what im doing, if this requires exploiting a loophole im all for it. and dont do that holier then thou crap. i was chasing your afk plexers out long before i started doing it, i just embraced it as a valid tactic before you. but i see even you Qcats are now down playing in the mud and that makes me smile because it shows your adapting and will make this war even more fun. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:33:00 -
[238] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Major Killz wrote:Interesting. Alot of the same arguments, issues, problems and concerns that have been made since the inception of faction warfare. Except now CCP is actually trying to fix the issues, for which myself (and many others) are quite thankful for. If you take a step back and try not to take the rules to their logical extremes FW plex fighting is pretty fun.
Plexes were intended to provide ship limited combat that isn't found as much anywhere else in Eve due to "hot drop itis" and other ways of ganking the hell out of potential targets. And in this, they actually work out really well.
They are also tied to occupancy warfare and the issue here is that ships not intended to be used in them (unfit T1 crap frigates for both defensive and offensive) can be used to solo them. Just as it sucks that a T1 crap frig can solo an offensive major, it sucks that an unfit Atron can solo a defensive major as well. CCP ought to provide a mechanic that encourages players to bring the properly sized ship for the properly sized plex. If an unfit ship can close an unrestricted major in 20 minutes, it ought to be an unfit Battleship so that there is more risk to their wallet if somebody figures out a way to gank them. If somebody wants to bring an unfit atron to the unrestricted plex, it ought to take them 3 hours to close it, or something ridiculous like that to encourage them to ship up.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:34:00 -
[239] - Quote
Nave Drallig wrote:see as previously stated i play to win. and thats what im doing, if this requires exploiting a loophole im all for it. and dont do that holier then thou crap. i was chasing your afk plexers out long before i started doing it, i just embraced it as a valid tactic before you. but i see even you Qcats are now down playing in the mud and that makes me smile because it shows your adapting and will make this war even more fun. I hope you agree that both are lame tactics. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:44:00 -
[240] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Yes, game mechanics wise I am enjoying the minmatar LP. But the Minmatar are allied with the Gallente, and the Caldari is at war with them both, and I am attacking the Caldari. I see that as a pretty clear "I am attacking the entity that you are at war with, therefore I am helping you, on top of that fact we are in fact allies".
And it's not just the LP making me think this is OK. Before I was in the Minmatar militia for the LP if you read the forum thread "There are only two militias" you'll see I was pretty pissed about SOTF assisting the Amarr against the Minmatar. I see FW as two groups of two allied militias fighting alongside each other. The Gallente Federation even assisted the Minmatar in gaining freedom in the first place.
Except for the fact that this is not how FW works. You know this. There are basically two wars going on, Matar vs. Amarr and Gallente vs. Caldari. They are in different regions and far apart. With a few rare exceptions, the allied militias do not cooperate and do not help each other.
Fact is that it doesn't make sense that the matar reward you for taking caldari plexs over the gallente. The gallente are the main enemies of caldari, matar are secondary. CCP was also very clear in their FW dev blog that they wanted to award the winning side, hoping on the winning side because your side is losing(or winning w/e I'm not trying to troll here) shouldn't be rewarded.
But I will admit if I was gallente militia I'd do the same thing and come up with crazy logic defying reasons to keep my awesome lp store and bonuses too. It's a clever exploit of the mechanics (or the rest of gallente are too dumb to do it) so kudos for that. But this entire thread is about making things fair whether it be speed tanking majors (a problem since day 0 of FW) or other mechanics. |
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:47:00 -
[241] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:The next thing you should try is getting your alt to +5 Federation standings so you can enter all Gallente faction plexes and not get shot at by NPCs. Then you can bring a real pvp ship.
This hasn't been fixed? Wow that's crazy lame as well. I agree completely, death to all these lame tactics! Shouldn't be too hard for CCP to fix, let's hope we won't have to wait for the next expansion for fixes. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:51:00 -
[242] - Quote
Actually I'll help you out with your goal of playing to win, and hopefully CCP sees this as well and decides to fix these in the future. Here are two best ways to "Play to Win":
1. Get two alts and have them join their own Gallente militia corp and have them plex up their standings to +10. Now you join the same Gallente militia corp. What does this do? You can now fire on your own militia member and not suffer any consequences whatsoever because even though your militia standings will go down to -10, your corp mates (alts) will keep your corporation standings above zero. They fire on you first? They get faction standings hit and possibly booted from militia. You fire on them first? Nothing. Cool idea huh?
2. As said before, get Federation faction standings above +5. Now you can enter any Gallente militia plex as a Caldari/Amarr pilot and never get shot at. Forget T1 crap fit frigate - Run all of these plexes with your pvp ship. No problems.
There are other really cool "play to win" tactics you can use. Hit me up in game and I'll give you a few.
|
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 23:52:00 -
[243] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Nave Drallig wrote:see as previously stated i play to win. and thats what im doing, if this requires exploiting a loophole im all for it. and dont do that holier then thou crap. i was chasing your afk plexers out long before i started doing it, i just embraced it as a valid tactic before you. but i see even you Qcats are now down playing in the mud and that makes me smile because it shows your adapting and will make this war even more fun. I hope you agree that both are lame tactics, and that CCP ought to find a way to make them not efficient. Edit: Also be careful w.r.t wishing for lame tactics to be used in FW. They can get very, very lame indeed. The next thing you should try is getting your alt to +5 Federation standings so you can enter all Gallente faction plexes and not get shot at by NPCs. Then you can bring a real pvp ship.
i Completely agree its a lame tactic. ive actually moved away from it because of how boring it is and mostly just do minors in a hookbill now also still boring because its pve but less then reading a book and occasionally scaning (and yes i kill all the npc's). only problem is being a late night player is the lack of fights, well.. realistic fights im not going to fight a pair of thrashers in my hook or something along those lines. which is all i seem to run into lately
also X gal can you tell your corp mates to come out and play ... we even came to your home last night in nen and sat just outside of station... we loaned you some missles and would really love them back |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
263
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 00:49:00 -
[244] - Quote
They're playing LoL and practicing for alliance tourney.... you'll have to wait a couple weeks.
|
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 01:18:00 -
[245] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:They're playing LoL and practicing for alliance tourney.... you'll have to wait a couple weeks.
thier lack of pew pew is depressing |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 04:34:00 -
[246] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Nothing is stopping you from running plexes with armor ships. I use armor thrashers for minors and armor Vexors (think drones \o/) for mediums. For majors I would imagine you at least have to fit a local rep on a myrm/cane/harb/etc. ...
The difference is I do not "imagine" it. I actually have run them in different fits. I have tried running them in a myrm and in a ham drake and in a shield harby.
Ill ask again, have you run major plexes solo, in bcs other than a heavy missile drake? Because until you have I am not sure why you are pushing this issue.
As far as fitting a local rep I do that on my myrm. But no I typically don't fit local reps on my pvp armor canes or harbies. On my myrm I end up eating my cap boosters to the point that if I run more than one major I will likely be out of them if any enemy comes to pvp.
Jones Bones wrote: Your arguments are not valid for me. Plexes never get my shield Rupture below 90% and my Drake never dips below 80% in majors. Your argument sounds like: I should be able to run a plex against NPCs solo and fight whatever player comes to kill me without a thought to my fit.
Well I admit that I stopped running plexes in my shield rupture so perhaps the rats have changed. But my shield rupture fit would always get below 50% even when i would attack the swarms as they came in. Now if you are kiting them and leaving the orbit button that is a different story. Yes you can kite them outside the orbit range and keep your shield at whatever. But it takes allot longer to run the plexes.
If you go into a plex where the rats already started spawning and so you have the mass of them then you can forget it in a rupture. You will spend so much time kiting them outside the orbit range you would be better off doing 3 other new medium plexes in that same time.
Jones Bones wrote: Good luck with that. BTW, I've ran majors with 2 thrashers. Also, I do not think unrestricted majors were designed to be soloed by a BC. There's a reason they are unrestricted...
I am sure you can run a major with 2 ships. Have one collect aggro etc. If you just have them both basically fighting the rats in pure pvp fits at the button I would think you would have to do warp outs. But I will admit I do not dual box so I don't know. I do know I was in a coercer and I was going to try to fight a thrasher and 2 t1 frigates in a major but before I could even mwd into disruptor range the rats were tearing into me so bad I had to warp out. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Nave Drallig
Astra Enterprises Happy Endings
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 16:21:00 -
[247] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Actually I'll help you out with your goal of playing to win, and hopefully CCP sees this as well and decides to fix these in the future. Here are two best ways to "Play to Win":
1. Get two alts and have them join their own Gallente militia corp and have them plex up their standings to +10. Now you join the same Gallente militia corp. What does this do? You can now fire on your own militia member and not suffer any consequences whatsoever because even though your militia standings will go down to -10, your corp mates (alts) will keep your corporation standings above zero. They fire on you first? They get faction standings hit and possibly booted from militia. You fire on them first? Nothing. Cool idea huh?
2. As said before, get Federation faction standings above +5. Now you can enter any Gallente militia plex as a Caldari/Amarr pilot and never get shot at. Forget T1 crap fit frigate - Run all of these plexes with your pvp ship. No problems.
There are other really cool "play to win" tactics you can use. Hit me up in game and I'll give you a few.
we have our own rat named Quake something that does this in a hawk and hunts the unaware most of us kill on sight now. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
266
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 01:05:00 -
[248] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:Major Killz wrote:Interesting. Alot of the same arguments, issues, problems and concerns that have been made since the inception of faction warfare. Except now CCP is actually trying to fix the issues, for which myself (and many others) are quite thankful for. If you take a step back and try not to take the rules to their logical extremes FW plex fighting is pretty fun. Plexes were intended to provide ship limited combat that isn't found as much anywhere else in Eve due to "hot drop itis" and other ways of ganking the hell out of potential targets. And in this, they actually work out really well. They are also tied to occupancy warfare and the issue here is that ships not intended to be used in them (unfit T1 crap frigates for both defensive and offensive) can be used to solo them. Just as it sucks that a T1 crap frig can solo an offensive major, it sucks that an unfit Atron can solo a defensive major as well. CCP ought to provide a mechanic that encourages players to bring the properly sized ship for the properly sized plex. If an unfit ship can close an unrestricted major in 20 minutes, it ought to be an unfit Battleship so that there is more risk to their wallet if somebody figures out a way to gank them. If somebody wants to bring an unfit atron to the unrestricted plex, it ought to take them 3 hours to close it, or something ridiculous like that to encourage them to ship up.
It's rather bullshit that my drake or navy caracal cannot run a major stronghold (getting hit for wrecking shots at 80 km away....so you have to warp in and out for 10-15 mins and kill the BS rats before you can even start running the timer...) whereas if I stepped into an afterburner frig I can run it immediately without a hitch. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
266
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 01:09:00 -
[249] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Nave Drallig wrote:also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things. Hatgris is part of our legion of afk plexing atrons that are currently being onlined to help clean up the mess of people like you in afk plexing Merlins. Lame? Yes. Necessary? Yes (adapt or die, right?). Otherwise we will be bored to tears running defensive plexes with our mains. Should there be a mechanic that discourages weaponless T1 frigs from influencing the Occupancy War that doesn't involve chasing rabbits forever? Definitely. Hopefully CCP will get on it ASAP. (Suggestions: Kill all NPCs requirement for offensive, timer speed for defensive plexes based on ship brought to plex, timer moves back to baseline zero quickly if nobody is on button).
Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work? |
pelchan
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 02:08:00 -
[250] - Quote
Interesting. |
|
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 04:30:00 -
[251] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work?
Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted.
Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
264
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 04:41:00 -
[252] - Quote
I can't hear you Mutnin over our +9 in captured systems. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 07:10:00 -
[253] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I can't hear you Mutnin over our +9 in captured systems.
We didn't want those systems anyway? Kinda like the 3 Gal systems that have been vulnerable for 2 or 3 days now that no one can be bothered to shoot the bunkers to capture them.. No one wants to defend on your side or ours.. It's all just space farmville where the smart guys just toss alts in which ever side has the highest & easiest to maintain warzone control. (yes I have my own personal stash of Stabber FI's now)
CCP kinda got it close to right, but with out any reason to defend the systems there is little to no reason to do so. PVP is up but the influx of farm alts is 10 times worse than it was with mission farmers. It's gonna get worse too because the hoards of Null Bears are starting to show up and they will do nothing but flood the market with stuff killing any profits from LP's.
There has to be some sort of balance system put in place to encourage defense & some way to stop the hoards of noob alts farming plexes, like requiring all NPCs' be killed. |
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 22:15:00 -
[254] - Quote
The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.
All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.
Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.
All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.
Balance shall be restored. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
267
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:24:00 -
[255] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Super Chair wrote:Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work? Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted. Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it.
Would you like a bandaid for that butthurt? |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
116
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 01:06:00 -
[256] - Quote
Marzuq wrote:The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.
All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.
Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.
All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.
Balance shall be restored.
And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?)
All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range). |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
268
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 01:18:00 -
[257] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Marzuq wrote:The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.
All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.
Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.
All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.
Balance shall be restored. And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?) All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range).
Not empty quoting |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
231
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 05:38:00 -
[258] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Mutnin wrote:Super Chair wrote:Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work? Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted. Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it. Would you like a bandaid for that butthurt?
Keep pushing Superchair and we will see where your talk gets you. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
540
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 09:07:00 -
[259] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Marzuq wrote:The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.
All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.
Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.
All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.
Balance shall be restored. And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?) All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range).
This is an easy fix.
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
182
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 15:20:00 -
[260] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:This is an easy fix. You'd think, right?
We plexers suggested it years ago as a band-aid until CCP could get around to sorting the NPCs proper or even as a stand alone fix with eWar addressed. The plexing balance has been out of whack since day one, it is only now, four years later that CCP are officially "looking into it", Goddess only knows what solution they come up with ..
|
|
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 15:51:00 -
[261] - Quote
I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.
I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
|
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 16:29:00 -
[262] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.
I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
I can take matar major outposts in navy caracal without much issues.
ECM is just a crutch that unskilled people whine about these days since in outposts (where 90% of the plex fights occur anyway) have exactly two jamming NPC's inside them, both in initial spawn. The horror!
And for this they want even that removed. Never mind that their plexes have massively better ewar in form npcs where each of them packs a potential damp on you and their cruiser spawns will reduce targeting range to 5km or so in a battlecruiser. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 17:32:00 -
[263] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.
I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
The issue is you can't stay to pvp when enemies come in.
Perhaps you can manage to sig tank the rats with the vengeance's peculiar amarr t2 resists. But your enemies can come with battlecruisers and cruisers into a major. Are you going to fight for that plex when that happens or just warp off?
If you just warp off you are just basically trying to pve your way to victory. Thats why your example of pveing your way to victory in a vengeance instead of flying the more powerful ships that these plexes allow actually proves there is a problem.
If you use a ship that these plexes are meant for, (with a few exceptions) then the rats will do too much damage for you to stay and fight if any wartargets come. That is my main problem with the minmatar rats. Most pvp fits don't work in these plexes. You are stuck with just a few fits. Caracal for the mediums and heavy missile drake for majors - if you want to pvp with the more powerful ships that can enter that plex. (yeah you can use navy cruisers as well but they are a bit too pricey for me, and few enemies will want to fight you when you have one of them anyway.) Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 18:25:00 -
[264] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Jones Bones wrote:I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.
I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
I can take matar major outposts in navy caracal without much issues. ECM is just a crutch that unskilled people whine about these days since in outposts (where 90% of the plex fights occur anyway) have exactly two jamming NPC's inside them, both in initial spawn. The horror! And for this they want even that removed. Never mind that their plexes have massively better ewar in form npcs where each of them packs a potential damp on you and their cruiser spawns will reduce targeting range to 5km or so in a battlecruiser.
Assuming your analysis is correct, then everyone is going to have better pvp opportunities with this removed ewar. In fact, you'll have better rats on your side (100k+ missile spam vs the guns that miss), and according to you the caldari will benefit more from this change than the gallente.
So why are you complaining? |
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 18:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
chatgris wrote:So why are you complaining?
Is it not obvious? You whined and had caldari NPC's nerfed to a point of joke. And now CCP finally decides to take action and remove all rats. So for a long time gallente rats had superior wtfpwn ewar while caldari were completely neuted out.
So basicly CCP let gallente have another free ride with superior NPC damps since unlike you, we dont go and whine in forums in masse about evil npc's and refuse to plex until CCP holds our hands and nerfs them to kingdom come. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:03:00 -
[266] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:chatgris wrote:So why are you complaining? Is it not obvious? You whined and had caldari NPC's nerfed to a point of joke. And now CCP finally decides to take action and remove all rats. So for a long time gallente rats had superior wtfpwn ewar while caldari were completely neuted out. So basicly CCP let gallente have another free ride with superior NPC damps since unlike you, we dont go and whine in forums in masse about evil npc's and refuse to plex until CCP holds our hands and nerfs them to kingdom come.
Alright, I thought you were complaining about the upcoming changes removing all ewar.
Well, we do disagree on pre-ewar removal rats (with damps I can still fly close range boats, not so with ECM). But that's a moot point since all ewar is now getting removed. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
85
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:46:00 -
[267] - Quote
Cearain wrote: If you use a ship that these plexes are meant for, (with a few exceptions) then the rats will do too much damage for you to stay and fight if any wartargets come. That is my main problem with the minmatar rats. Most pvp fits don't work in these plexes. You are stuck with just a few fits. Caracal for the mediums and heavy missile drake for majors - if you want to pvp with the more powerful ships that can enter that plex. (yeah you can use navy cruisers as well but they are a bit too pricey for me, and few enemies will want to fight you when you have one of them anyway.)
/me shrugs
I have over 100 kills this month and probably half of them are insides plexes or on the gate of a plex. New system is working as intended IMHO.
|
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
231
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 20:06:00 -
[268] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Jones Bones wrote:I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.
I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
The issue is you can't stay to pvp when enemies come in. Perhaps you can manage to sig tank the rats with the vengeance's peculiar amarr t2 resists. But your enemies can come with battlecruisers and cruisers into a major. Are you going to fight for that plex when that happens or just warp off? If you just warp off you are just basically trying to pve your way to victory. Thats why your example of pveing your way to victory in a vengeance instead of flying the more powerful ships that these plexes allow actually proves there is a problem. If you use a ship that these plexes are meant for, (with a few exceptions) then the rats will do too much damage for you to stay and fight if any wartargets come. That is my main problem with the minmatar rats. Most pvp fits don't work in these plexes. You are stuck with just a few fits. Caracal for the mediums and heavy missile drake for majors - if you want to pvp with the more powerful ships that can enter that plex. (yeah you can use navy cruisers as well but they are a bit too pricey for me, and few enemies will want to fight you when you have one of them anyway.)
The great thing about plexes is they let you "choose" the fight you want to a certain degree by picking the plex you run & the ship you run it in. If you choose to run a plex in a ship that can't kill the NPC's then you are making a decisions to run from the fight before the fight ever comes to you.
I think the problem here is that people expect to have their cake and eat it to while being able to fly sub par ships for the job at hand. (ie most of guys complaining just want to farm plexes not actually fight)
The other night I was bored.. I decided I wanted to go dual box my two Drakes. I went to Nennamaila and I popped open a major plex to pick a fight in Gals home system. I shot the NPC's as they spawned and got some PVP mid way through killed 2 BC's played patty cake with their reinforcements and was ran off with about 2 mins on the timer.
IMO that was a successful plex run and I used the plex for it's intended purpose. I picked the ship(s) I wanted to fly, went to a busy system and used the plex mechanics to pick a fight.
People that are bitching and moaning that they can't run a major plex are quite simply just complaining because they can't easily play farmville. While the other side can. It doesn't matter that one side can or can't run majors in a t1 frig.. The end of the day you are just farming and abusing a game mechanic to farm LP's.
If you want to ***** about Plexes, then the only valid argument is bitching about the EW from NPC's in majors. Aside from NPC's & their EW if you can't tank the damage or kill the NPC's then you are using the wrong ship for the job and you are likely there just to farm LP's. End of story.
(not directed at you specifically Cearain, but at everyone complaining they can't speed tank NPC's while the other side can) |
Dopified
Quantum Cats Syndicate
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 17:27:00 -
[269] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:
The great thing about plexes is they let you "choose" the fight you want to a certain degree by picking the plex you run & the ship you run it in. If you choose to run a plex in a ship that can't kill the NPC's then you are making a decisions to run from the fight before the fight ever comes to you.
I think the problem here is that people expect to have their cake and eat it to while being able to fly sub par ships for the job at hand. (ie most of guys complaining just want to farm plexes not actually fight)
The other night I was bored.. I decided I wanted to go dual box my two Drakes. I went to Nennamaila and I popped open a major plex to pick a fight in Gals home system. I shot the NPC's as they spawned and got some PVP mid way through killed 2 BC's played patty cake with their reinforcements and was ran off with about 2 mins on the timer.
IMO that was a successful plex run and I used the plex for it's intended purpose. I picked the ship(s) I wanted to fly, went to a busy system and used the plex mechanics to pick a fight.
People that are bitching and moaning that they can't run a major plex are quite simply just complaining because they can't easily play farmville. While the other side can. It doesn't matter that one side can or can't run majors in a t1 frig.. The end of the day you are just farming and abusing a game mechanic to farm LP's.
If you want to ***** about Plexes, then the only valid argument is bitching about the EW from NPC's in majors. Aside from NPC's & their EW if you can't tank the damage or kill the NPC's then you are using the wrong ship for the job and you are likely there just to farm LP's. End of story.
(not directed at you specifically Cearain, but at everyone complaining they can't speed tank NPC's while the other side can)
You are correct in saying you can chose the fight you want in plexes. The arguement i made in my first forum post was that Gallente and Ammar can not do this with ease as the Minmatar and Caldari can. Again as stated and evidence shown we take alot of incoming damage in a fight. This matters when looking for pvp. A t1 frig that is running a major then turns around and is able to fight inside the major is somewhat of an advantage. I actually lost a firetail to a dram this way the npc's did nothing and the other pilot agreed with me. Funny how even alot of caldari are admitting this openly.
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Alain Colcer
Quantum Cats Syndicate
28
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Posted - 2012.06.12 17:59:00 -
[270] - Quote
After Reading all pages (and being a bit embarrassed by all the smack happening) i would like to make a review post:
-People have agreed that the timer should restore itself to starting point, when an enemy has been successfully pushed away before its completion. -People have agreed that defensive plexing currently does not offer any reward at all, it should, albeit at a much lower rate than offensive plexing. -People have mentioned they wish FW NPCs behave a bit more intelligent -People have mentioned the idea of making the requirement to clear NPCs first before being able to run the timer (or button) on the complex.
Now let me add a few other aspects:
1) "Plexing", is an activity that albeit done in groups provide better safety, does not provide increased returns. In fact, fleets of people plexing obtain better results by splitting and running multiple sites simultaneously. 2) Low-sec FW has not only the regular 4 empire -aligned pilots flying around, it also has null-sec casual roaming, pirates and outlaws, and the occasional guys trying their first hand in pvp. Therefore a pilot looking to "plex" will often choose a "fast and agile" ship that provides a maneuvering advantage to avoid unwanted ganks or evade pursuers. This of course means choosing ship hulls that can speed tank (from t1 frigs to cynabals and vagabons).
3) Currently NPC rats present in plexes are bound by the design choices given for regular missions. These design constraints do not apply well in a pvp-rich target environment. If the NPCs apply to much ECM/TP/TD/SD then the affected pilot cannot fight well against incoming player enemies. There is also a lack of webbing or scrambling on these scenarios and EWar is often applied by a variety of different NPCs, not just a few recognizable hulls.
4) Finally, not only there are 3 sizes of complexes (minor, medium, major) there is also a scaled difficulty level with Outposts, Facilities, Installation and Compounds.
So that puts quite a few things in perspective. CCP please take them into consideration. |
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
231
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Posted - 2012.06.12 20:07:00 -
[271] - Quote
Dopified wrote:
You are correct in saying you can chose the fight you want in plexes. The arguement i made in my first forum post was that Gallente and Ammar can not do this with ease as the Minmatar and Caldari can. Again as stated and evidence shown we take alot of incoming damage in a fight. This matters when looking for pvp. A t1 frig that is running a major then turns around and is able to fight inside the major is somewhat of an advantage. I actually lost a firetail to a dram this way the npc's did nothing and the other pilot agreed with me. Funny how even alot of caldari are admitting this openly.
You are expecting NPC's to do the work for you when you shouldn't. I attacked a Ishtar in a Gal lvl 4 mission in a Rupture and I died.. This must mean Cal NPC' s are not so over powered right, not that it was a bad fight to take, regardless of NPC's on the field or not?
You are expecting to beat a Dram in a Firetail just because of NPC aggro?
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 20:12:00 -
[272] - Quote
Alain Colcer wrote:After Reading all pages (and being a bit embarrassed by all the smack happening) i would like to make a review post:
-People have agreed that the timer should restore itself to starting point, when an enemy has been successfully pushed away before its completion. -People have agreed that defensive plexing currently does not offer any reward at all, it should, albeit at a much lower rate than offensive plexing. -People have mentioned they wish FW NPCs behave a bit more intelligent -People have mentioned the idea of making the requirement to clear NPCs first before being able to run the timer (or button) on the complex..
I'm not sure I agree defensive plexing gives no rewards. The lack of individual rewards for defensive plexing seems to be the only thing to provide balance here. I'm not saying I would be against some very small benefit (although I do think you get standings gains) but I think its too early to call this. I would say leave it as is until we have something evidence this is a problem.
I'm not sure people agree that the rats should be more intelligent as in some sort of sleeper ai. In fact I think most agree it shouldn't. I know I have no interest in matching wits with a computer ai and would prefer rats play less of a role in plexing.
As for 1)the timer going down when chased out and 2) killing all the rats I agree there has only been mostly positive responses for those proposals.
Alain Colcer wrote: Now let me add a few other aspects:
1) "Plexing", is an activity that albeit done in groups provide better safety, does not provide increased returns. In fact, fleets of people plexing obtain better results by splitting and running multiple sites simultaneously...
I think that is how it should be. I am against artificial pay increases for doing the same job just because you use more people. If a pilot(s) is/are good enough at pvp to capture a plex with fewer people they should get greater rewards.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 20:12:00 -
[273] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Dopified wrote:
You are correct in saying you can chose the fight you want in plexes. The arguement i made in my first forum post was that Gallente and Ammar can not do this with ease as the Minmatar and Caldari can. Again as stated and evidence shown we take alot of incoming damage in a fight. This matters when looking for pvp. A t1 frig that is running a major then turns around and is able to fight inside the major is somewhat of an advantage. I actually lost a firetail to a dram this way the npc's did nothing and the other pilot agreed with me. Funny how even alot of caldari are admitting this openly.
You are expecting NPC's to do the work for you when you shouldn't. I attacked a Ishtar in a Gal lvl 4 mission in a Rupture and I died.. This must mean Cal NPC' s are not so over powered right, not that it was a bad fight to take, regardless of NPC's on the field or not? You are expecting to beat a Dram in a Firetail just because of NPC aggro?
Hey he has a booster! Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
460
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 20:30:00 -
[274] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Cearain wrote: If you use a ship that these plexes are meant for, (with a few exceptions) then the rats will do too much damage for you to stay and fight if any wartargets come. That is my main problem with the minmatar rats. Most pvp fits don't work in these plexes. You are stuck with just a few fits. Caracal for the mediums and heavy missile drake for majors - if you want to pvp with the more powerful ships that can enter that plex. (yeah you can use navy cruisers as well but they are a bit too pricey for me, and few enemies will want to fight you when you have one of them anyway.)
/me shrugs I have over 100 kills this month and probably half of them are insides plexes or on the gate of a plex. New system is working as intended IMHO.
We addressed specific issues about major and medium plexes and now you are just back tracking to vague generalities.
I agreed that minor plexes present no real problems for most pvp fits.
By including fights on the gate of a plex you of course won't have problems with npcs.
I can say that I pretty much never run major plexes or get any pvp inside major plexes due to the rats. I mainly just run minors because the mediums and major plexes are too limiting as to what I can fly.
I would guess about 80-90% of my pvp fights are inside plexes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.06.12 20:52:00 -
[275] - Quote
Hopefully with NPC E-war removal people will me more inclined to fight, It will certainly allow me to try plexing majors in ships other than my Ishtar.
Still DPS can be heavy and the fits require heavy tanking specifically against certain resists, I still feel there is a lot to be said for overhauling NPC's.
Again I can run caldari majors in a frigate or assult ship but cannot be set up to PVP at the same time, it is not the fact that it is not possible it is the fact that it is open to farming and does not result in quality gameplay.
In the test sever thread it talked about additions to the LP store there are shirts in the LP stores on sisi I don't remember seeing before 400mill and 400k lp at control level 1, was hoping for something more useful really. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 21:01:00 -
[276] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Again I can run caldari majors in a frigate or assult ship but cannot be set up to PVP at the same time, it is not the fact that it is not possible it is the fact that it is open to farming and does not result in quality gameplay. .
And this is what we call the give and take
Go run it in a pvp ship then or go into mediums instead.
And there is a thing called burning BEHIND the warpin so you dont get aggro.......... Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
268
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 21:59:00 -
[277] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Alticus C Bear wrote:
Again I can run caldari majors in a frigate or assult ship but cannot be set up to PVP at the same time, it is not the fact that it is not possible it is the fact that it is open to farming and does not result in quality gameplay. .
And this is what we call the give and take Go run it in a pvp ship then or go into mediums instead. And there is a thing called burning BEHIND the warpin so you dont get aggro.......... 10k LP/minor is 5 to 80 million isk depending on Warzone Control Level.
1 day alt? 30 to 480 million isk/hour. Priceless!
Only you Bolsterbomb don't see a problem with that. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 00:36:00 -
[278] - Quote
You know, I think I might be changing my mind on the 'clearing all rats to cap a plex' idea.
Mainly I'm changing my mind because plexing is pretty much the only way I'm making ISK in EVE right now. I used to just buy PLEXes with real money, but now I just plex a system, move plex another system, move back and keep going.
Then again, the only way that I can actually plex majors is because of a well fit dual prop incursus and not a 1 day old alt. I do mind alts with almost no training to do the same thing. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 00:48:00 -
[279] - Quote
I personally think the FW specific aspects of the latest "update" are absolute garbage.
CCP took the most boring, painful and utterly flawed aspect of FW...and now made it the central aspect of "control".
Should have fixed plexing - rat "balance", glitches, capping - looooong before they made this terribad mechanic as "important" as they did. Glad they're "interested" now......kinda late tbh......
Personally for me...I can't stand the way the game plays now. 3 years of FW for this.... |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
46
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Posted - 2012.06.13 02:15:00 -
[280] - Quote
But... the KILLS!!!! -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
231
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Posted - 2012.06.13 08:55:00 -
[281] - Quote
Cromwell Savage wrote:I personally think the FW specific aspects of the latest "update" are absolute garbage.
CCP took the most boring, painful and utterly flawed aspect of FW...and now made it the central aspect of "control".
Should have fixed plexing - rat "balance", glitches, capping - looooong before they made this terribad mechanic as "important" as they did. Glad they're "interested" now......kinda late tbh......
Personally for me...I can't stand the way the game plays now. 3 years of FW for this....
You aren't the only one.. On one hand I like that it's easier to get fights in plexes, but the reality of that is, it's usually just defensive plexes that get the PVP.
If I go to an offensive plex almost no one comes to chase me off or fight, unless its in a very busy system. Two days ago I ran 4 minors (40 mins) with war targets coming in and out of system and it took till the 5th plex to have a fight.
Meanwhile if I go chase a war target out of a plex & defend it, there is a better chance that I might get a fight, because I'm chasing him off his ISK farming and he's gonna call for help.
IE... plexing right now just favors ISK farming and fighting typically comes if someone forces the fight by defending. Yet defenders get nothing for this while the PVE bears get rich.
As far as the whole making FW revolve around PVE & Sov War thing, it's already starting to have it's bad affects show up, with space Hitlers trying to tell everyone what to do. |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 14:33:00 -
[282] - Quote
Cromwell Savage wrote:I personally think the FW specific aspects of the latest "update" are absolute garbage.
CCP took the most boring, painful and utterly flawed aspect of FW...and now made it the central aspect of "control".
Should have fixed plexing - rat "balance", glitches, capping - looooong before they made this terribad mechanic as "important" as they did. Glad they're "interested" now......kinda late tbh......
Personally for me...I can't stand the way the game plays now. 3 years of FW for this....
I think the change is an improvement, at the very least you now get a wider array of fight opportunities with a lot of solo or small gangs running plexes, in all kinds of systems (really a dream for solo roaming). The problem is, there isn't enough of a disincentive for someone running a plex to engage should someone come in and contest their plex.
Plexes right now are a pretty good carrot on a stick to get players out into low sec and the sheer spike in interest is probably the biggest contributor to the high kill count for the month. There is definitely room for iteration, including the removal of EWAR, adding tactical variation, and improving the capture mechanic. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
67
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Posted - 2012.06.13 15:02:00 -
[283] - Quote
Strange I always thought plexing was the only aspect to system control. It just means something now. Exactly what we (the FW community) asked for.
Cromwell Savage wrote:I personally think the FW specific aspects of the latest "update" are absolute garbage.
CCP took the most boring, painful and utterly flawed aspect of FW...and now made it the central aspect of "control".
While I agree these are annoying bugs and rat balance is way off, if a game feature is ****, what does it matter is it works properly? Now that they have revised the FW system balancing the rats is a logical next step, which they seem to be doing.
Cromwell Savage wrote: Should have fixed plexing - rat "balance", glitches, capping - looooong before they made this terribad mechanic as "important" as they did. Glad they're "interested" now......kinda late tbh.......
This confuses me, this is a sandbox, you are never forced to play the game a certain way. Still not sure what you are upset about but if its plexing, then do not plex.
Cromwell Savage wrote: Personally for me...I can't stand the way the game plays now. 3 years of FW for this....
Is sexy time? |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:31:00 -
[284] - Quote
Sorry...I asked for very little of what was actually implemented.
Plexes to have "meaning" - sure, but not like this - not by a long shot. I was not in favor of denying docking rights, especially like this, in the least. Not plexing is always an option (I don't have to rely on FW LP to fund my PvP) ...until your station system becomes endagered. Sure, not an issue for us in Nenna right now, but it will at some point. I don't like the fact that most of the squids moved back to frikkin hi-sec after it took so long to get them to move out in the first place - lol.
Docking rights and LP for plexing have done nothing for dealing with/limiting farming alts (i.e. the 'old' cloaky missioners who never fought). IMHO, it's worse now than before.
Ship changes and LP for kills are great changes, but everything associated with plexing - especially before the mechanic itself has been fixed - is borked. I don't have the "lust" to play this game like I had before the patch. I took a few days off to watch a mini-series on TV (was during my prime-time Eve time) and found myself not really hankering to get back like I have been in the past. The whole "feel" of the game is off for me since the patch.
I don't know...just not on board with the direction this has us going... |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
275
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:20:00 -
[285] - Quote
If the cost of more pew is the loss of massive numbers of systems to afk plexing alts, then I'm all for it. Hopefully the influence of no-skill alts (both offensive and defensive) will be nerfed out of the war at some point. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 17:05:00 -
[286] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:If the cost of more pew is the loss of massive numbers of systems to afk plexing alts, then I'm all for it. Hopefully the influence of no-skill alts (both offensive and defensive) will be nerfed out of the war at some point.
You'll pry my EZ Mode LP making alts from my cold, dead hands.
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