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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:34:00 -
[1]
I might be moving down to low-sec or 0.0 soon. That means my totally industry specced pilot needs to grow some claws.
Im looking for suggestions as how to not make a fool out of myself in case Im attacked, I dont aim to be a feared pirate or something like that.
My initial calculations seems to suggest that missiles with armor tanking requires the fewest skill points to be handled good-enough, while drones and projectile weapons need more. What ships, skills and weapons do you suggest? Keep in mind that Im not looking for an overpowered combo or the FOTM, cheapest and quickest way to barely-survivable PVP.
I want to last ten seconds in a fight and claim that I "at least shot back". Or is it true what they say? Regarding PVP, just forget about it in your first year of EVE.
Oh, btw, Ive been told that "just fit a web on a cheap frig and tail someone in your corp, that way you can say you have done PVP". No, dont wanna do that.
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Novantco
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:46:00 -
[2]
Rifter or another T1 frig of your choice. Best to learn in something cheap and cheerful to start of with then move onto cruisers etc.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:51:00 -
[3]
Rifter, maby Punisher or Merlin
Cheap, low SP, fun! :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:09:00 -
[4]
So my initial guess of missiles/rockets was way off? I started looking into the Breacher (minmatarr missile frigate).
But the Rifter then. I would guess artillery is easiest to handle, just fly away from your opponent with an ab/mwd and keep shooting.
I assume warp core stab is a must? Or is it better (since I, assume I wont do any real impact in PVP) to just go out with all guns blazing and full offense? Maybe I even manage to make a dent that way.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nihn Lemai So my initial guess of missiles/rockets was way off? I started looking into the Breacher (minmatarr missile frigate).
But the Rifter then. I would guess artillery is easiest to handle, just fly away from your opponent with an ab/mwd and keep shooting.
I assume warp core stab is a must? Or is it better (since I, assume I wont do any real impact in PVP) to just go out with all guns blazing and full offense? Maybe I even manage to make a dent that way.
All offence man! :D
and no warp core stab, that slot can be better use to actually win the fights :P
nope on artillery, use autocnannon. And rememebr your warp scrambler! :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:22:00 -
[6]
Doesnt autocannons need quite a lot of skillpoints and various upgrades to be effective?
There are many PVP guides out there. The very core of my question could be seen as "what is the lowest SP I could kill someone in EVE with?". Wasnt there a video about something like that btw?
Im not looking to be the best, or ever good, mere survival is all I want and at which point I go back to train the stuff I enjoy doing.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nihn Lemai Doesnt autocannons need quite a lot of skillpoints and various upgrades to be effective?
There are many PVP guides out there. The very core of my question could be seen as "what is the lowest SP I could kill someone in EVE with?". Wasnt there a video about something like that btw?
Im not looking to be the best, or ever good, mere survival is all I want and at which point I go back to train the stuff I enjoy doing.
Artillery needs the same skills as AC. but AC works well up close and with low SP on a rifter better then artillery.
equip 3 AC + 1 rocket in high slots, and I once used AB+MSE+Scram in mis slots, in low slots I used 1 DCII and 2 nanos.
But mids with MWD+Web+Scram and lows with DC II + armor plate and a repper works as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
TaluxA
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:58:00 -
[8]
If you want to just be helping the alliance/corp out, then a tackler or basic ewar ship like a blackbird is usually quite welcome. Or you could consider an interceptor if you want to train a little longer.
Otherwise, if you'll mainly be in really small gangs, then you can do quite a bit with a tech 1 frig like a rifter or punisher (which only needs a couple of weeks training to be really good). Plus it's a cheap and fun way to learn.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:20:00 -
[9]
[Thrasher, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer I Gyrostabilizer I
Warp Disruptor I 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution
280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Titanium Sabot S
Worth 1.5ish mil and will kill 40 mil intis.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:39:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/09/2009 13:40:07
Originally by: baltec1 [Thrasher, New Setup 1] Worth 1.5ish mil and will kill 40 mil intis.
And only needs engineering 5, electronics 5, weapon upgrades 5 and AWU 3 to fit...
If you include the skills to actually do some decent damage (if you dont want to watch the inty warp off or worse, kill you), I dont see this being suitable for a new player.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
And only needs engineering 5, electronics 5, weapon upgrades 5 and AWU 3 to fit...
If you include the skills to actually do some decent damage (if you dont want to watch the inty warp off or worse, kill you), I dont see this being suitable for a new player.
ah good point...
ECM griffin then
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:55:00 -
[12]
got to be a bit more specific the level of PVP capability you are trying to reach otherwise its hard to advise.
Originally by: Nihn Lemai "what is the lowest SP I could kill someone in EVE with?".
solo? in a group? how skilled is the "someone"? a newcomer? a seasoned PVPer?
Originally by: Nihn Lemai mere survival is all I want and at which point I go back to train the stuff I enjoy doing.
mere survival? does this mean defeating your opponent or just running away? because even a shuttle can run away.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:58:00 -
[13]
For sheer survival you cant beat the punisher ofcourse but it is a bit limited in the tackling department. Rifter you cant beat for speed ofcourse. Griffin if you want to be more dangerous than just your tackling, but be prepared for more "love" coming your way during fights.
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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Darthewok got to be a bit more specific the level of PVP capability you are trying to reach otherwise its hard to advise.
Yea, I to felt my post was I little bit vague.
See, the very reason I came here for advice is because of my dilemma; I want to move to 0.0 but I dont want to give up my industry focused game. I.e, high-end ore but no fighting. Which is, as even I am aware, very very naive.
A very probable scenario would involve me settling in a system and start mining. Occasionally chase of other miners. But when some old character, all geared up and looking for a fight arrives I will probably just run. I assume I wont stand a chance there.
The setup, and relevant skills/ships, Im looking for is purely for solo flying (when not alone I rely on others for protection). It is to be able chase away others mining "my" ore, and should at least have a chance of escaping when that someone comes, looking for me as easy prey.
I still think Im a bit vague but that is probably because I have so little experience in PVP so I dont even know what to ask.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:36:00 -
[15]
let me explain the 0.0 mining situation:
1) forget about mining regularly in a 0.0 region without belonging to an alliance. mining ships are slow and easy targets. they need friendly PVPers to keep the region clear of roaming enemies. they need a place to store the ore if they are not near a station. 2) your safety as a miner in 0.0 depends more on the strength of your alliance at holding and guarding its space more than your individual skill. even if you are a super skilled PVPer, you cannot defeat or keep out roaming gangs. only a corp or an alliance can. 3) any alliance strong enough to hold 0.0 is usually expecting members to be able to do their share of contributing to its defence as well by way of quite high PVP skills. 4) if you are in a mining ship, you don't stick around and try to fight back. mining ship vs combat ship, combat ship usually wins no matter what your skill levels are.
mebbe that clarifies.
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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Darthewok let me explain the 0.0 mining situation:
1) forget about mining regularly in a 0.0 region without belonging to an alliance. mining ships are slow and easy targets. they need friendly PVPers to keep the region clear of roaming enemies. they need a place to store the ore if they are not near a station. 2) your safety as a miner in 0.0 depends more on the strength of your alliance at holding and guarding its space more than your individual skill. even if you are a super skilled PVPer, you cannot defeat or keep out roaming gangs. only a corp or an alliance can. 3) any alliance strong enough to hold 0.0 is usually expecting members to be able to do their share of contributing to its defence as well by way of quite high PVP skills. 4) if you are in a mining ship, you don't stick around and try to fight back. mining ship vs combat ship, combat ship usually wins no matter what your skill levels are.
mebbe that clarifies.
Hmm, I was expecting that. But how about a regular low-sec system then? That hasnt been "claimed" by anyone.
And for the record, Ive been totally clear on 4. the entire time, no question there.
But were getting somewhere here. The mining situation was just an example. Say I try to join a 0.0 alliance and they want me to be able to help defending, which is totally fair imo. But I dont want to halt my industry career for 2 months and train pvp.
Ill rephrase the question; I want to get into pvp, but I dont want to spend much time training.
So I guess it depends on what skills I actually got. I have minmatarr frigate lvl 5. But electronics, engineering, gunnery, missile launcher operation and mechanic is barely 2 million SP. I take that, generally, its those categories thats interesting in pvp.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:13:00 -
[17]
Electronics and Engineering are incredibly important skill categories for practically everything in EVE. About the only career choice where they may not be important is trading/scamming. For everything else those two groups pretty much determine what and how much you can fit to your ship.
Now, I'd assume you already have the basics at least partially covered. By that I mean skills like Electronics, Engineering, Energy Management, Energy Systems Operation, Shield Upgrades, Shield Management, Shield Operation, Hull Upgrades, and so on.
I'd definitely recommend the Rifter as a beginning ship for PvP combat. You'll need Propulsion Jamming; this is the skill that makes PvP combat possible, because without it the other guy will run away as soon as you get the upper hand. For gunnery you'll need Gunnery, Small Projectile Turrets, Rapid Firing, Surgical Strike (once you get the prerequisites done if you go that far), and Sharpshooter as weapon skills. Trajectory Analysis is good in the long term, but requires Gunnery V before you can train it. The first part of the list you can probably train to level 3-4 within two weeks. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:16:00 -
[18]
hmm, a "respectable" PVPer in 0.0 can at least fly a BC or a BS, usually with T2 guns. a player with 10-15 mil skill points in PVP is not even considered particularly good at PVP in 0.0. so to train only 2 mil skill points in PVP and expect to hold your own in 0.0 may not be a reasonable plan. a T1 frig can be used to learn PVP, but if your intention is to stop at T1 frig and learn no more and be seen as a respectable PVPer, that is unrealistic.
why not go do missions in empire instead and along the way pick up BC skills then go to 0.0. mining is not particularly lucrative except in 0.0 and you usually need decent combat skills to survive there.
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Soralio
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/09/2009 13:40:07
Originally by: baltec1 [Thrasher, New Setup 1] Worth 1.5ish mil and will kill 40 mil intis.
And only needs engineering 5, electronics 5, weapon upgrades 5 and AWU 3 to fit...
If you include the skills to actually do some decent damage (if you dont want to watch the inty warp off or worse, kill you), I dont see this being suitable for a new player.
Drop down to 250mm's then, you'll still knock out some serious hurt to the ceptor pilots.
Originally by: Mrs Ravenfire
Originally by: IamBeastx you molest dead corpses?
And you? You molest living corpses? I think thats way worse - poor zombies
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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Darthewok hmm, a "respectable" PVPer in 0.0 can at least fly a BC or a BS, usually with T2 guns. a player with 10-15 mil skill points in PVP is not even considered particularly good at PVP in 0.0. so to train only 2 mil skill points in PVP and expect to hold your own in 0.0 may not be a reasonable plan. a T1 frig can be used to learn PVP, but if your intention is to stop at T1 frig and learn no more and be seen as a respectable PVPer, that is unrealistic.
why not go do missions in empire instead and along the way pick up BC skills then go to 0.0. mining is not particularly lucrative except in 0.0 and you usually need decent combat skills to survive there.
So its true what they say then? If you dont train for months youre better off just forgetting about the PVP aspect of EVE?
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nihn Lemai So its true what they say then? If you dont train for months youre better off just forgetting about the PVP aspect of EVE?
you don't have to train for months to START PVPing. you can start right now.
however, to reach a respectable level of PVP skills in 0.0, you do have to train for months. because the people you will fly with and fly against, will have trained for months in PVP skills, and you will need near the same level of skills to hold your own.
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Tekei
Woopatang Primary.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nihn Lemai So its true what they say then? If you dont train for months youre better off just forgetting about the PVP aspect of EVE?
No, it's not true. You can PvP pretty much out of the box. This is even more true if you're flying in a group.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:58:00 -
[23]
to clarify, yes you can START pvping out of the box like the above poster said. and some 0.0 alliances may accept PVP rookies too, but they will expect you to improve over time.
to STOP training PVP skills at like 2 mil skillpoints instead of at least 10-15mil skillpoints will mean you will always be a dependent rookie instead of a self-sufficient contributing member in a 0.0 alliance. eh, mebbe its clearer now.
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Smabs
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:05:00 -
[24]
It's partially true that you need to train for months.
As far as solo goes... well, your range of targets increases with SP. At a week or two worth of training you can kill miners, missioners, ratters and occasionally get a lucky break against a pvp target. And you can tackle for a larger gang, which is definitely useful, although you'll often get swatted straight out of the sky.
Two months and you can take on AFs and some interceptors if you play your cards right. After four months probably cruisers and some BCs. Several months and you can take on a bunch of different stuff. After a year or so, if you're skilled and patient enough, you could potentially take on battleships or multiple smaller enemies.
So yeah, SP does matter, especially solo. You need a good 10 - 15 mil SP to start taking on bigger targets, like the earlier poster said. But it'd be really difficult to go solo and take down anything pvp fit (other than frigs) with just 1-2 million combat SP.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:15:00 -
[25]
Contact me ingame if you have questions or need some more help.
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Draeklore
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:25:00 -
[26]
Get yourself a few T1 frigs and start tackling. You don't need to worry about SP to be a good tackler really. As long as you can fit a your webber, scram/disrupter, and a mwd you can tackle.
Now if you want to continue tackling your best bet would be to train towards interceptors. These are VERY useful ships in PvP as they can hold down just about any target until other gang members arrive. You could also consider assault frigs which can either be a heavy tackler or support dps.
Many people might tell you to go towards cruisers but that will require a little more SP investment to use medium guns plus the shift into a larger ship will be a bit different. But if you decide you don't like the small ship thing then this would be the next best thing. Cruisers in PvP are generally anti-frig and support dps.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:44:00 -
[27]
if you already have minmatar frigate 5 get a stiletto no gun are required you just need to skill evasive manouvering 5 (which also help your barges align time ), propulsion jamming 2 fot T2 disruptor, skill to use mwd. fitting power on the stiletto is very large so you wont have much trouble even with low engeneering/electronics skills. and a interceptor is always welcome in gang
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:13:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 05/09/2009 18:15:40
Originally by: Smabs Edited by: Smabs on 05/09/2009 16:09:05 It's partially true that you need to train for months.
As far as solo goes... well, your range of targets increases with SP. At a week or two worth of training you can kill miners, missioners, ratters and occasionally get a lucky break against a pvp target.
I lost my Rifter, T2 fit and all, to a 3 day old player in a destroyer once A corpmate of mine barely survived in his Claw vs a month old Rifter (he says he would've lost if the Rifter had T2 guns) a few days ago.
With the correct starting character, you can pilot a Rifter with T2 guns and frig IV plus the essentials in like two days.
You can pilot the small ships very effectively in a very short time. Plus you will kill miners/industrialists/ratters/etc.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:36:00 -
[29]
If all the op wants to do is some low sp pew pew then what he needs to do is seperate it from his high sec industry character and use one of his extra character slots to roll a pvp pilot. With the double training time to 1.6 mil and some cheap +2 or +3 implants you can have it up and running around in t2 fit frigates and destroyers in no time. Add a couple of months extra training and you will be able to fly all manner of t2 frigates just as well as a 40 mil sp player. The bonus to this after the pvp alt is done training is now you can just sit your industry alt in the most profitable system grinding away those level 5 skills with a set of +5 implants in complete safety. Then when the itch to fight comes around you use your pvp alt to go roam and pew pew away to your hearts desire with its low cost low sp clones. Plus when you lose the first pod with the attribute implants you won't need to replace them.
Three character slots per account ftw.
Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zeba With the double training time to 1.6 mil and some cheap +2 or +3 implants you can have it up and running around in t2 fit frigates and destroyers in no time.
This. You can roll a minmatar char which will have minmatar frigate IV and small projectile turret V right off the bat.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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