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admiral horrus
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: admiral horrus on 06/09/2009 18:11:55 i'm getting close to being able to purchace a navy issue raven and wanted to know if there are any good passive shield loadouts for PVP?
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xXxZeroCoolxXx
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:18:00 -
[2]
No dont use a Navy Issue Raven. No don't passive tank a Raven. No don't PVP in a Raven. I'd recommend a Scorpion to PVP.
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Soralio
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:18:00 -
[3]
Lul.
Originally by: Mrs Ravenfire
Originally by: IamBeastx you molest dead corpses?
And you? You molest living corpses? I think thats way worse - poor zombies
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admiral horrus
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:22:00 -
[4]
well i've seen them take quite a beating on lvl4 missions and thought that it would be the same as if i were being attacked by a player. thx for the comments so far guys, but i really want to fly a raven
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:30:00 -
[5]
Buffer tank yes, passive tank hell no, and don't use a CNR for learning PVP. Normal raven will do just fine, if you really really must learn in a BS.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Denuo Secus on 06/09/2009 21:25:14 You can't passive tank a BS really. Because there are no oversized shield extenders for that class. Fitting just purgers and SPRs is not enough imho. Active tank it or fit a shield buffer.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: admiral horrus
i'm getting close to being able to purchace a navy issue raven and wanted to know if there are any good passive shield loadouts for PVP?
There are no good passive shield fits for any PVP ship whatsoever. That is all.
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Diefer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gypsio III
There are no good passive shield fits for any PVP ship whatsoever. That is all.
I see you haven't tried PvP in class 6 Pulsar WH system...
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Diefer
Originally by: Gypsio III
There are no good passive shield fits for any PVP ship whatsoever. That is all.
I see you haven't tried PvP in class 6 Pulsar WH system...
I see you don't know what a passive shield tank is.
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Diefer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gypsio III
I see you don't know what a passive shield tank is.
Oh, I assuredly know. The point is, ship fits tailored to WH system effects break many of the normal "truths". In C6 Pulsars case, a good passive shield tank fit is perfectly viable for PvP. Certainly much better than any armor tank in those contitions.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 22:27:00 -
[11]
No, you don't. Pulsars give bonuses to shield HP. What you want is a bog standard buffer tank.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.09.06 22:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gypsio III No, you don't. Pulsars give bonuses to shield HP. What you want is a bog standard buffer tank.
The shield HP bonus will boost the passive tank considerably though. Heck, even a simple buffer gets enough passive recharge to count as a tank there.
On the other hand, what are you gonna do, wait for your enemies to find your WH system to get some PVP? Sounds a tad bit time-consuming and terribly boring if you ask me.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:11:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/09/2009 06:15:29 Gypsio III said " Pulsars give bonuses to shield HP. What you want is a bog standard buffer tank." Pulsars mean a HP regen passive tank can tank multiply ships. You should in theory be able to PvE with HP regen then have more than enough HP regen to not worry about small gangs. Being wormhole space it tends to be small gangs that you bump into, not large fleets. Even outside Wormwhole space HP regen tanks are fine for small gangs. Buffers are only better for larger gangs.
A buffer tank would mean you would get locked down for a while then die. A HP regen tank means they cannot kill you.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Badmin
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Badmin on 07/09/2009 06:23:44 Edited by: Badmin on 07/09/2009 06:22:59
Originally by: Pottsey
A buffer tank would mean you would get locked down for a while then die. A HP regen tank means they cannot kill you.
Depends, HP regen means its harder for a single ship to kill you (because they barely do more dps or equal to your passive fit), but on the flip side you do not have as much HP meaning its much EASIER for someone that does double ur HP regen tank to kill you.
Look at it this way.
8000 HP shield with 300 dps passive tank will last about 10-20 seconds when introduced with a mere 600 DPS (2 stealth bombers).
meanwhile the 15000 HP version (buffer fit) will last almost twice as long.
In the end, Ravens should only be active or buffer fit, preferably Active since they have crap PG.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/09/2009 06:47:18 Lol, telling me of all people how passive tanks work :) In a Pulsars system a passive HP regen tank can tank upwards and over 10ships depending on just what the ships are. You get up to a 100% bonus to hitpoints.
In a pulser system you can end up with more than 1 ship can kill you as a buffer but not kill you as a HP regen ship. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:57:00 -
[16]
Wormholes or not, its never a good idea to HP regen tank. You lose too many mid and lows slots to be an effective PvP ship. You'll get a slow ship, with a gimped capacitor and well below average DPS.
Just Tanking Is Not A Suitable Role In PvP
Before you can even think about the phrase "But I'm the bait!", its still a very poor choice. You and what capacitor plan on tackling your enemy? What if your target wants to run away, then what? What if your target brings backup, how do you plan on aiding your gang? *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/09/2009 07:20:51
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/09/2009 06:47:18 Lol, telling me of all people how passive tanks work :) In a Pulsars system a passive HP regen tank can tank upwards and over 10ships depending on just what the ships are. You get up to a 100% bonus to hitpoints.
A 100% bonus to hitpoints will boost your passive tank by 100%. Ok. Let's say you're using T2 med purger rigs and, say, DG invulns on a NH/Drake and sticking a truckload of SPRs. So you tank 3K DPS. Yay, you tank 4 T1 BCs (actually, you don't tank 4 BCs), provided nobody is neuting you.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Diefer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gypsio III No, you don't. Pulsars give bonuses to shield HP. What you want is a bog standard buffer tank.
And more shield HP means more passive regeneration. Furthermore, you are going to fight mostly small gangs.
Originally by: Omara Otawan
On the other hand, what are you gonna do, wait for your enemies to find your WH system to get some PVP?
No, you do whatever you usually do in WH systems. Park your PvP ship into POS, and take it out when you have visitors. You can even tailor the final fit based on intel before committing.
Originally by: Artemis Rose Wormholes or not, its never a good idea to HP regen tank. You lose too many mid and lows slots to be an effective PvP ship. You'll get a slow ship, with a gimped capacitor and well below average DPS.
And here I thought cap booster was "must fit" module in PvP ships anyway... Gimped cap regen does not matter, use NOS/cap booster depending on ship/role.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Just Tanking Is Not A Suitable Role In PvP
Agreed.
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Diefer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Ok. Let's say you're using T2 med purger rigs and, say, DG invulns on a NH/Drake and sticking a truckload of SPRs. So you tank 3K DPS. Yay, you tank 4 T1 BCs (actually, you don't tank 4 BCs), provided nobody is neuting you.
Are you seriously saying, that tanking 3k dps is a bad thing
If you manage to drop even one of those 4 BCs, you can tank the rest indefinitely. And if you have no change to drop one, why are you in combat with them.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/09/2009 06:47:18 Lol, telling me of all people how passive tanks work :) In a Pulsars system a passive HP regen tank can tank upwards and over 10ships depending on just what the ships are. You get up to a 100% bonus to hitpoints.
In a pulser system you can end up with more than 1 ship can kill you as a buffer but not kill you as a HP regen ship.
I feel like this is a very silly tangent to the question. it maybe valid but it just seems a bit to obscure to justify passive tanks elsewhere.
I had someone tell me that their drake could tank 1k kin/therm dps, to which I replied that is great, i can do over 1k em/therm damage how well can you tank that. also but a bs + gate guns will do more then 1k dps. the argument then got a bit silly
there will always be a few cases where the passive tank is the better tank, but against most of what you will see in eve the buffer tank is superior imo.
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:07:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Harotak on 07/09/2009 08:10:52
If you REALLY want to passive recharge tank a faction battleship(fail), you will get better results from a navy mega(seriously; eight CPRs is the key here)
It would be an otherwise worthless setup for an nMega, but it could result in some epic lulz.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:15:00 -
[22]
Cpt Branko said ôYay, you tank 4 T1 BCs (actually, you don't tank 4 BCs), provided nobody is neuting you.ö You tank 4 ships I would day thatÆs pretty good compared to a buffer tank that cannot tank 4 ships. LetÆs see die as a buffer tank against 4 ships or survive against 4 ship with a HP regen tank. I know which would pick.
You do realise donÆt you that a pulsar system can give a passive tank a good 270 HP/s extra. Then add in a gang member for another 15% hitpoints perhaps a Vulture for some extra resistance and you have one mean tank. That a HP regen tank with 115% to hitpoints has a pretty good secondary buffer tank. Best of both worlds.
Artemis Rose said ôtackling your enemy? What if your target wants to run away, then what? What if your target brings backup,ö tackling? I donÆt do that itÆs not my role. ThatÆs the role of the small fast support ships not the big ships. Target wants to run away? Again not my role the small fast ships stop that. Target brings backup? Unlikely its wormhole space neither side will be bringing much if any backup past the first group to engage. I know not all gangs and people think like this but in my mind the larger slower ships should not be doing the tackling when possible. Having tackling gear on every ship in the gang is a waste of slots.
Just did some quick math a pulser system at 100% HP can boost your passive tank by as much as 270 HP/s extra. That can be further boosted by being in a gang for another 15% hitpoints and/or gang assists resistance boost.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Trvaeler
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Badmin Edited by: Badmin on 07/09/2009 06:23:44 Edited by: Badmin on 07/09/2009 06:22:59
Originally by: Pottsey
A buffer tank would mean you would get locked down for a while then die. A HP regen tank means they cannot kill you.
Depends, HP regen means its harder for a single ship to kill you (because they barely do more dps or equal to your passive fit), but on the flip side you do not have as much HP meaning its much EASIER for someone that does double ur HP regen tank to kill you.
Look at it this way.
8000 HP shield with 300 dps passive tank will last about 10-20 seconds when introduced with a mere 600 DPS (2 stealth bombers).
meanwhile the 15000 HP version (buffer fit) will last almost twice as long.
In the end, Ravens should only be active or buffer fit, preferably Active since they have crap PG.
Can you explain this in greater detail?
600dps * 20 seconds = 12000 damage
300dps regen * 20 seconds = 6000 regen
8000 + 6000 = 14000
Meanwhile, the 15000 buffer will last just a wee bit longer @ 600dps.
So, how again will 600dps destroy a 8000hp + 600dps regen tank in 10-20 seconds? What am I missing?
Do it again with 500 DPS for 30 seconds and it's a bit of a different story;
500dps * 30 seconds = 15000dps - enough to kill the buffer tank ... but in 30 seconds, the 300dps passive tank can regen 9000 + 8000 = 17000dps .. (ie: the 15k buffer will die before the passive tank in this case).
So it all depends on what you're going up against. There is no better choice overall. 1 on 1, a passive tank is often the right choice. In 1 vs many, not so much. |
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: admiral horrus well i've seen them take quite a beating on lvl4 missions and thought that it would be the same as if i were being attacked by a player. thx for the comments so far guys, but i really want to fly a raven
Troll detected.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.07 09:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Trvaeler 8000 + 6000 = 14000
So, how again will 600dps destroy a 8000hp + 600dps regen tank in 10-20 seconds? What am I missing?
That you don't actually regen 600 DPS except at a very small part of your tank. Your shields effectively melt like butter down to 40%, and then they melt like butter after 20%.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Red zeon
Caldari Circle of Shadows Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.09.07 13:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Denuo Secus Edited by: Denuo Secus on 06/09/2009 21:25:14 You can't passive tank a BS really. Because there are no oversized shield extenders for that class. Fitting just purgers and SPRs is not enough imho. Active tank it or fit a shield buffer.
tell that to the scorpion :P
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.07 13:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 07/09/2009 13:53:00 158000+ EHP with 341 passive regen, no prob fitting the tachs AND -38.3 +85.4 energy with ANM where your frinds can NOS for energy :p
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, New Setup 2] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Core Defence Field Extender II Core Defence Field Extender II Core Defence Field Extender II
Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
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irion felpamy
Minmatar HellJumpers Corp Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2009.09.07 14:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 07/09/2009 13:53:00 158000+ EHP with 341 passive regen, no prob fitting the tachs AND -38.3 +85.4 energy with ANM where your frinds can NOS for energy :p
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, New Setup 2] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Core Defence Field Extender II Core Defence Field Extender II Core Defence Field Extender II
would die to a rupture
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.09.07 14:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/09/2009 07:20:51
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/09/2009 06:47:18 Lol, telling me of all people how passive tanks work :) In a Pulsars system a passive HP regen tank can tank upwards and over 10ships depending on just what the ships are. You get up to a 100% bonus to hitpoints.
A 100% bonus to hitpoints will boost your passive tank by 100%. Ok. Let's say you're using T2 med purger rigs and, say, DG invulns on a NH/Drake and sticking a truckload of SPRs. So you tank 3K DPS. Yay, you tank 4 T1 BCs (actually, you don't tank 4 BCs), provided nobody is neuting you.
I know you're having a conversation with another guy, but just chipping in. Buffer tank is often one of the best tanks around, but there IS a time and a place for active tanks. Honestly, if I could tank 3k dps and still put out 3 or 4 hundred dps I'd active tank... no question. While there will be lots of times you'll still be killed, there will be lots of times you'll live when you might have died.
btw... he's not actually tanking 4 bcs in your example.... he only tanks 4 for long enough to kill 1. Then he only tanks 3... then kills one... then he tanks 2... kills 1... etc. etc. etc. To be honest, if active tanks were that effective on ships in the under 100mil price range, we'd be seeing a lot more active tanks than buffer tanks.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:17:00 -
[30]
The interesting part for me is: the more opponents dealing damage to you the smaller the difference between shield buffer and shield regen tank. Really, it's just a matter of seconds! While a regen tank is quite effective in 1 vs 1 or few vs few situations.
A passive shield tank becomes silly in PvP when the tank consumes all low and med slots imo. Gallante is the only race who can afford such a fitting because of drone boats - maybe. Drones don't need cap to fire and no low slots for damage improvement. But there are still some modules to fit. And these consuming cap too...
So my consideration: regen tank doesn't mean 7 SPR + 3 Purgers. Why not using purgers and some PDU's for instance? Something in between the extremes...just as an idea.
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