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Seriphyn Inhonores
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
123
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Posted - 2012.06.04 21:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen so much of this by this point, that this question is now asked with genuine curiousity rather than snide condescension.
Many of you are not approving of stereotypical Gallentean practices of hedonism and decadence. Fair enough, I'd eradicate militarism from Caldari culture if it meant no more war, if I could.
Yet, these same individuals attended Madame Silas Vitalia's party and made no complaint as to how it was conducted, particularly the activities of the lower level. It involved narcostics, and scantily-clad to nude male and women dancers. I've seen many jokes or prejudiced remarks about Gallentean fashion, yet I saw no issue being taken up there. Amarr and Caldari culture are better known for having widespread expectations of discretion and principle, whereas in Gallente culture, that is only reserved to certain groups (such as those expected to embody classical Federal ideals, or high-class artists). I saw none of this typical cultural behaviour from the Caldari or Amarrians present.
In short, everyone behaved exactly like stereotypical Gallenteans, while having stereotyped Gallenteans in the past. Why? It is no wonder that Gallentean culture has been able to penetrate every other empire, when people and capsuleers act so receptive to it. Many parts of it cater to base human drives, after all. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
353
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Posted - 2012.06.04 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Two reasons.
1. Drugs are very, very fun. As such, enjoyment of drugs is not limited solely to cultures with reputations for decadence. Have you ever tried Amarrian blow? Stuff will make you feel like an emperor. 2. Yours is a race of gaudy over-the-top prostitutes and look-at-mes. Wasn't it a few years ago when your ladies were wearing translucent polymer tops? Not all could pull off the look. I'm glad that fashion trend went away, though I miss the plastic neon visors and skullcaps you lads used to sport! Anyway, the most prominent features of a race are often caricatured, and you guys fly ships shaped like dicks. |
Aldrith Shutaq
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
22
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Posted - 2012.06.04 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I protested. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
229
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was not in attendance of the party, nor did I have any desire to be in attendance.
As to your question (and statements), the culture of the Federation is designed specifically to appeal to the base instincts and pleasures of humanity, it is how the Federation spreads its influence. The Amarr Empire simply declares its intention to conquer and enslave you in the name of their god, the Federation offers the hand of friendship while infesting every aspect of your culture until it is transformed into a reflective image of the Federation itself.
It is because of this appeal that many are drawn into the very same behaviors when confronted with them.
As a side note, I have no desire to remove any aspect of Gallente culture from the Gallenteans, I simply work to remove its influence from my people's culture. I do not practice base revelry and discourage others from doing so for a number of reasons. However, since the majority of these reasons are personal to myself and/or my culture and are likely to just spark a debate here, I'll keep them to myself. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon WHG Recruitment Video |
Deceiver's Voice
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:In short, everyone behaved exactly like stereotypical Gallenteans, while having stereotyped Gallenteans in the past. Why? Perhaps reducing everything to stereotypes is not the best way to approach any subject, non? Just as these other people you speak of have stereotyped your culture, it seems you are stereotyping both them and your culture.
The Gallenteans do not hold exclusive rights to hedonistic excess, and Gallente culture is not the sole purveyor of such.
Get over yourself. |
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
18
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr. Inhonores, It is about time that someone asked this question. Thank you for doing so. Capsuleers in particular love to stereotype competing races for any number of reasons. 1. All Amarrians are slave holding oppressors. 2. All Gallenteans are Hedonistic to excess. 3. All Caldari are greedy corporate SOB's. 4. All Matari are foul-mouthed, godless, pagan savages. 5. All Khannid are Xenophobes except for Khannid capsuleers who are slave holding, hedonistic, greedy foul-mouthed, pagan corporate SOB's.
Yes, of course I am exaggerating; we are far more subtle in our stereotypes, but Oh the fun we have doing it anyway. Why? So we can all justify our own excesses by accentuating those of others. It is the universal ad-hominem. Attack the other in order to avoid addressing my own problems. Attack the other races to avoid facing the weaknesses of my own.
Each race race has something positive to teach the other races. Why not focus on that? 1. Gallenteans honor personal liberty and an unfettered growth of the conscience. 2. The Caldari honor personal and community initiative and a powerful work ethic. 3. The Amarr honor faithfulness and honor. 4. The Matari experience freedom and value it as something precious and not presumed. 5. The Khannid have great hairstyles.
Mr. Inhonores raises a valid point. Perhaps the greatest excess of all the races is how we so readily find fault in the other while avoiding the acknowledgment of our own faults. "The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri) |
Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
535
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Two reasons.
2. Yours is a race of gaudy over-the-top prostitutes and look-at-mes. Wasn't it a few years ago when your ladies were wearing translucent polymer tops? Not all could pull off the look. I'm glad that fashion trend went away, though I miss the plastic neon visors and skullcaps you lads used to sport! Anyway, the most prominent features of a race are often caricatured, and you guys fly ships shaped like dicks. They aren't THAT bad! |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
581
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Posted - 2012.06.04 23:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I did not take drugs or dance half naked on a platform with a complete stranger, unlike some. I did enjoy a few alcoholic drinks and dance romantically with my significant other, however. I also spoke with many other patrons, forging friendships and gathering simple information about those I interacted with.
I attended the event because it was an opportunity to keep the proverbial finger on the pulse of the community. Isolating ourselves in offices does not help us stay up to date on what is going on around us, and failing to stay informed is a recipe for failure. In other words, it's good for everybody to get out of the office sometimes and mingle with your peers.
It's also worth noting that Caldari do know how to have fun, contrary to popular belief. We do drink, we do gamble, we do party, and we do enjoy it. As long as it does not bring dishonor to ourselves or our families (I use the term family loosely), it is generally acceptable. Enjoy yourself within reason, I suppose the proverb would be. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
255
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Posted - 2012.06.04 23:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nobody's come up with the obvious answer yet: Because it annoys you enough to post threads like these, Seriphyn. |
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
0
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Posted - 2012.06.05 01:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
You're assuming that the individuals who've expressed those opinions you don't like are the same as the specific people who went to the party. If I weren't such a sweet, kind, trusting person, I'd think you make that assumption knowingly so that you can accuse people of hypocrisy and thereby make yourself look better.
Not that I'd actually suggest such a thing, because as we all know you are the one true paragon of virtue. |
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Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
100
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Posted - 2012.06.05 04:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Casiella Truza wrote: Not that I'd actually suggest such a thing, because as we all know you are the one true paragon of virtue.
Paragon of Virtue? I thought the one true Paragon of Virtue was the esteemed Holder of Many Honors, Man of Myriad Titles, our dear Lord Vaari.
In all seriousness I believe you're simply taking thoughtless comments beyond their scope. In my experience, when people make such sweeping generalizations as to say "Gallenteans are all gentlemen/ladies of ill repute" they are saying it either in jest or in a rather obvious attempt to push someone's buttons. In which case, I think Morwen has the right of it.
I'll also point out that while I didn't stay at the party long, I saw no extremely objectionable behavior from the guests or the staff. Then again I'm not troubled by people dancing in a state of undress, in a controlled private environment, as their profession. Neither am I bothered by the veritable plethora of alcoholic drinks strong enough to be considered afterburner fuels, or the proclivity of narcotics, the noise that passes for dancing music at such parties ( not your performance Morwen, that was rather lovely.) Nor am I bothered by having the chance to casually speak with people I would otherwise not meet.
However, what does bother me is attending a function hosted by Lady Vitalia and then seeing a young girl in attendance of a function that was essentially promised to be a celebration of debatable activities. I was further bothered by the fact that the girl's father was in attendance as well, but not as a dutiful parent and chaperon. It was quite a surprise to me, given the fact that Lady Vitalia's last social function ended in large scale destruction, that anyone would let their young daughter attend at all. In fact I'm relatively certain that if my parents knew about it they would have tried to stop me from attending it myself. |
Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
0
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Posted - 2012.06.05 07:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
That was all just a bunch of innocent fun. Until the bloke self-immolated.
It's unfortunate to me that there are folks who consider fun a Gallentean stereotype. There weren't any kids present, no one was forcing anything on anyone until that aforementioned immolation. There's a time and place for everything, aye? And a party for adults seems the right place for what you mention. |
Halete
Echoes of Korgoth Initiative
138
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Posted - 2012.06.05 10:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:The Amarr Empire simply declares its intention to conquer and enslave you in the name of their god, the Federation offers the hand of friendship while infesting every aspect of your culture until it is transformed into a reflective image of the Federation itself. .
And this man flawlessly captured why I abhor the Federation and feel that it is a tragedy that so many of my brothers and sisters live within it. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in. |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
58
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:In short, everyone behaved exactly like stereotypical Gallenteans, while having stereotyped Gallenteans in the past. Why? It is no wonder that Gallentean culture has been able to penetrate every other empire, when people and capsuleers act so receptive to it. Many parts of it cater to base human drives, after all. So if you put in a day of work, are you behaving like a stereotypical Caldari, while having stereotyped Caldari in the past?
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
304
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Halete wrote:Malcolm Khross wrote:The Amarr Empire simply declares its intention to conquer and enslave you in the name of their god, the Federation offers the hand of friendship while infesting every aspect of your culture until it is transformed into a reflective image of the Federation itself. . And this man flawlessly captured why I abhor the Federation and feel that it is a tragedy that so many of my brothers and sisters live within it.
Without any offense and out of curiosity, if your brothers and sisters really hate the Federation ideals, would they still choose that way of life you despise so much, or are you just trying to say that you deny them their free will ? Or consider them weak enough to get seduced by it ?
Edit : my remark is not aimed at the immigrated people living directly in the Federation, but more to people complaining that Federal and Amarrian ideals seem somehow to "infect" their "kin". |
Tessa Scyne
Shadowknight Securities
1
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
*Takes a long, exaggerated sip from her refreshing bottle of Quafe*
Another one of these posts now? I'm dismayed that no one wants to get any understanding from each other rather than just stating the things that they hate about each other... |
iyammarrok
Federation Manufacturing Conglomerate Elemental Tide
6
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcolm, I like you, most of the time and you are better than this.
The federation's culture is based on a single premise: That it is everyone's inaliable right to freedom of speech and action, unless that freedom infringes upon anothers right to the same.
If a culture feels threatened by that simple right, the birthright of any human, then surely some degree of introspection is in order. Perhaps the extremes cases within the federation are exactly that, and would not be acceptable in some cultures, but they are the exception, not the norm.
When i see you comment upon other topics, it is this middle ground that you apparently seek, yet your comment in this thread is combative, almost to the point of bigotry. I can only hope that you take a step back and look again at the truth of the matter.
To put this in context, I am Intaki, and I am proud to be so. My people have been in the federation for quite some time, yet we retain our own culture and have, in some cases, spread aspects of it to the federation. Yet we have also grown stronger as a people by taking those aspects of the federation's culture that proved advantageous.
That said, there really isn't a 'federation culture' as so many of those who stand outside the federation claim. It is a melting pot, with hundreds if not thousands of varying cultures within it. The mistake that so many make is the belief that accepting outside influence somehow lessens their own culture, when in my opinion, the very opposite is true.
Stagnation, in culture, technology and many other areas, breeds nothing but entropy. Change is good. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
953
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anyone who condemns Gallentean hedonism and then participates in one of Vitalia's bacchanalias is a hypocrite.
Luckily for me, I've never attended such a gathering.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
233
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Saisa iyammarrok,
I seek truth and wisdom in my standpoints and understanding, not a middle ground.
I admit that my viewpoint of the Federation is most certainly a biased one, seeing as I have seen the negative effects of the Federation on those around it and those within it but have not personally experienced the positive effects. I am sure there are good aspects to the Federation (if their weren't, then the people would have surely rebelled by now), but these are aspects that I am not familiar with in my current experience.
You are Intaki, so you understand that the Intaki have not always welcomed the Federation openly. The history of the Federation and the Intaki is rife with disagreements, conflicts, tension and even outright isolation. One need look no further than the recent history regarding the conclusion of the original Gallente/Caldari War and now the Intaki Liberation Front working to secure autonomy, independence and personal identity separate from the Federation to know the truth of this. This does not mean the Intaki are at war with the Federation, nor does the ILF represent all of the Intaki, but the evidence is there to suggest that many are not happy with the effects the Federation has had on them.
I will not go into a detailed history between our people as it is well known and leads to nowhere but continued bitterness, but I will state that the Federation promotes freedom and liberty while simultaneously attempting to force others to live by their same interpretation and practice of those principles.
Degrees of change are good, yes. Change that is undesired and requires the dissolution of individual identity is not good, and this is the sort of change that all-too-often occurs when the Federation assimilates a people into its "melting pot."
I do not mind that the Federation seeks to live by the standards it lives by, nor that it promotes the ideals it promotes. My problem stems from the practice of expecting others to do the same. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon WHG Recruitment Video |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
390
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Halete wrote:Malcolm Khross wrote:The Amarr Empire simply declares its intention to conquer and enslave you in the name of their god, the Federation offers the hand of friendship while infesting every aspect of your culture until it is transformed into a reflective image of the Federation itself. . And this man flawlessly captured why I abhor the Federation and feel that it is a tragedy that so many of my brothers and sisters live within it.
Beat me to it, but it bears emphasising, so...^^This!^^
Game, set, and match.
In irae, veritas. |
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Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
34
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
It Is Impolite To Criticise the Hostess During The Party. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
582
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote: However, what does bother me is attending a function hosted by Lady Vitalia and then seeing a young girl in attendance of a function that was essentially promised to be a celebration of debatable activities. I was further bothered by the fact that the girl's father was in attendance as well, but not as a dutiful parent and chaperon. It was quite a surprise to me, given the fact that Lady Vitalia's last social function ended in large scale destruction, that anyone would let their young daughter attend at all. In fact I'm relatively certain that if my parents knew about it they would have tried to stop me from attending it myself.
This. This right here. I'd like to see the General explain that. |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
68
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Uraniae Fehrnah wrote: However, what does bother me is attending a function hosted by Lady Vitalia and then seeing a young girl in attendance of a function that was essentially promised to be a celebration of debatable activities. I was further bothered by the fact that the girl's father was in attendance as well, but not as a dutiful parent and chaperon. It was quite a surprise to me, given the fact that Lady Vitalia's last social function ended in large scale destruction, that anyone would let their young daughter attend at all. In fact I'm relatively certain that if my parents knew about it they would have tried to stop me from attending it myself.
This. This right here. I'd like to see the General explain that.
I did not attend, so I must ask: Who is being mentioned here? Ilsenae Alexandros Khross, Chaika Eskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
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Safai
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
11
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Posted - 2012.06.05 16:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
I believe the girl in question was General Inhonores' daughter. Some sort of celebrity if I recall. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
295
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Posted - 2012.06.05 17:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Wait.
General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?
Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena? |
Kalaratiri
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
155
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Posted - 2012.06.05 17:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Wait.
General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?
Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?
Yes, but apparently finding volunteers was an issue. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
295
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Posted - 2012.06.05 17:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:
Yes, but apparently finding volunteers was an issue.
Was this known prior to the party? Because otherwise, seriously, what in the hell? |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
68
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Posted - 2012.06.05 18:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Wait.
General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?
Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?
For parental decency I hope that this is not true.
For comedy I hope that it is. Ilsenae Alexandros Khross, Chaika Eskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
304
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Posted - 2012.06.05 18:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote: I will not go into a detailed history between our people as it is well known and leads to nowhere but continued bitterness, but I will state that the Federation promotes freedom and liberty while simultaneously attempting to force others to live by their same interpretation and practice of those principles.
May I ask you to elaborate ?
Malcolm Khross wrote:Degrees of change are good, yes. Change that is undesired and requires the dissolution of individual identity is not good, and this is the sort of change that all-too-often occurs when the Federation assimilates a people into its "melting pot."
I do not mind that the Federation seeks to live by the standards it lives by, nor that it promotes the ideals it promotes. My problem stems from the practice of expecting others to do the same.
If the "change dissoluting individual identity"you talk about is truly undesired , then why are people adopting it to various degrees ? That sounds like contradicting itself to me. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
270
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Posted - 2012.06.05 19:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Wait.
General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?
Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena? For parental decency I hope that this is not true. For comedy I hope that it is.
The gladiator thing didn't happen, thankfully, but yes, Anette was there; I spoke with her a few times over the course of the evening. She didn't go downstairs, though, to my knowledge - I only saw her upstairs and once on the main floor. In addition, she was, arguably, on better behavior than her father, but then, what's new there?
She also had one of those intelligent perception filter masks that are popular with some parents in the Federation, so as I joked to her, if she did for some reason wander downstairs she probably would've been running into walls because she wouldn't be able to see anything. Never used one myself, so I'm not sure of how well they work - but they wouldn't sell if they didn't, so...
As far as my own presence, I was there because I was invited to perform. I'm glad that people enjoyed the performance; I spent a lot of time preparing for it and it's always good to hear that it was time well spent. |
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