Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1199
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:it's the re-specialization that can be a problem as is required in EVE There are two places I see where re-speccing is a problem. The first is in shifting nullsec fleet doctrines, and being an obeying lapdog is what you sign up for when you sign up for someone who does large sov warfare. No sympathy there.
The second is for people who insist on flying flavor of the month garbage. Drake gets changed to be in line with the other BCs? Boo-hoo, I have to respec. Dramiel got brought back in line? Boo-hoo, I have to find a new autowin mobile. Datacores changed? Oh no, I have to respec!
If you're suckling the teat of one very specific aspect of a very dynamic game, you are very misinformed, and you don't need faster training to be able to switch between teats more quickly as they dry out.
Elzon1 wrote:Also, think of the new people who join this game and see the huge amount of time it takes to get just about anywhere in EVE that is interesting in terms of skills. Quite a few people get turned off by the huge time investment that EVE can be in terms of training. Some of these people are perfectly willing to adapt to change and can, it's just that the time it takes to do so seems unreasonable to them. A couple of very young (a couple months, if that) pilots in electronic warfare ships were crucial to my corp getting a 2+ billion ISK Tengu kill today. The problem is not that newbies are useless, but that nobody helps them find their place properly. That is not going to be solved by more SP.
Elzon1 wrote:Reducing the training time will have little effect on EVE overall Nope. Faster training, SP reimbursements, and all that shebang simply encourages "shoot from the hip" training towards whatever is perceived to be the "best ship" at that time, and reduces the rewards of long term commitment to a particular ship or play style. In other words, you know how there is an overabundance of Drakes and Hurricanes? Think of that, but worse.
Elzon1 wrote:Indeed, by why not actually have that skill at level V and maximize a given ships/module's potential. Skill is a major deciding factor in EVE and SP has little to do with that skill. Given such logic I don't see how reducing the training time overall will have much of a lasting negative impact. Such a change would make EVE less of a time grind and not much else. As you and others have put it individual skill is the real deciding factor in EVE not SP so lowering the overall training time isn't going to change things in EVE it just increases the quality of one's EVE gaming experience. Removing level V skills as niche rewards for dedicating oneself to a particular ship or play style for a long time would never fly with those who have already trained level V skills. Level IV in a ship's skills means "I can fly this well", while level V means "I fly this great, and all the time". The former is casual. The latter is specialization. Specialization is rewarded in Eve.
tl;dr: idea is bad because of FOTM, because of penalizing bittervets, because of not rewarding commitment/specialization, and because of Falcon. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1566
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Martin0 wrote:Eve is about specialization. You are NOT supposed to train everything. Did I suggest anyone train all the skills to level V, nope. Was I implying such a thing, nope. All I am after is to reduce the overall time it takes to train individual skills in general, not to train them all to level V. I am suggesting training in EVE simply takes too long in general and that reducing that time overall without harming the highest SP players as an equitable solution.
If all you want is perfect core skills and every subcap / weapon spec to IV, that only takes like 3-4 years. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
332
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Yey, I'm halfway there.
Don't a change a thing.
Tal
Who cares, SP has got nothing to do with success in EVE so it wouldn't matter even if you would be finished training forever. True skill and experience are the makings of success in EVE and what makes it fun not SP. Someone playing as long as you have would know already know this and would therefore know that training all the skills there are to train isn't the true EVE experience. Reducing the time it takes to train all skills overall can only increase one's experience of EVE at a more rapid rate. It is this experience that is what makes EVE fun and I am all for more fun how about you?
No I disagree : )
For one thing I'm not halfway there (except in time) as I have taken breaks and been lax with training sometimes. I like the skill system. You train for what you need and when your done move onto to something else. I like the fact it takes time, I also like the fact I don't have to grind skill points by killing 100 space bunnies.
I have lots of fun. Disagreeing with you doesn't remove the fun from the game. (actually it might add some)
Tal |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1566
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Martin0 wrote:Eve is about specialization. You are NOT supposed to train everything.
Oh oh.
It's those little green check marks. I can't stand them. Maybe I have ass burgers.....
|
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
635
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Those who rush to train a BS without understanding it nor spending ample time in a cruiser or BC, usually die hard. Training time length is more a helmet check to ensure people don't rush into things they don't understand or afford. Imagine all the nubs who would be trying to gate jump carriers because it only took them 3 weeks to train for one. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:If all you want is perfect core skills and every subcap / weapon spec to IV, that only takes like 3-4 years.
Takes less than that if you use +4s and remaps eh |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gerald Taric wrote:Elzon1 wrote:The time it takes to train everything in EVE to it's maximum base potential doesn't seem very sane really. Isn't 18+ years of training a bit much? This was the introductionary sentence of your OP, where i underlined the important part. The next part was a solution suggestion. If we understood you wrong, then the OP construction was wrong.
I don't think you are understanding my sentence structure incorrectly. Perhaps it is the assumptions about my frame of mind you made when reading such statements that were incorrect?
By saying saying 18+ yeas of training is a bit much I am logically implying that generally everything in the overall skill tree takes too long.
Gerald Taric wrote:Anyway.... I can just speak for myself: After one year of playing EVE i reached a skill state with my main character, which is rather satisfactionary. And i just took some skilltime to put it into a second charakter on the same account.
And if that "skill state" only took 6 months to attain would you be less satisfied or perhaps filled with rage about how little time it took. I am going to take a guess on that and so no.
Gerald Taric wrote:Therefore: No, the time is not too long.
Ah, then you would prefer it to be longer then? How about 50 years? 100 years?
See what I am getting at there? Making training take less time seems better than making it longer, no? Or did you want a 1,000 year training queue you glutton? |
Conrad Makbure
Phoibe Enterprises
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:The time it takes to train everything in EVE to it's maximum base potential doesn't seem very sane really. Isn't 18+ years of training a bit much?
Simple suggestion: Take the character with the most SP and add 1 month's worth of SP on top of that. Now compress the time it takes to complete all skills to level V proportionately so that it equals that character's total training plus 1 month. After doing that give back the total SP lost in compressing all those skill times. Of course, you would do this for everyone.
Doing this will reduce everyone's training time without alienating those of the highest SP level.
I think this is an equitable suggestion and will help bring about a saner EVE.
Maybe it will help EVE out of beta a little bit too...
Yeah, the training time in this game is absurd. People keep paying to play so it's not going away, that's for sure. We should be able to do more with ranks 1 - 4 on all skills, making exceptions for capital ships and leadership. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Anyone else start a skill, note it will take under a week to ten days to complete, and mumble to themselves, "Great, another short skill..." while wondering what to train next after that...? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
333
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Gerald Taric wrote:Elzon1 wrote:The time it takes to train everything in EVE to it's maximum base potential doesn't seem very sane really. Isn't 18+ years of training a bit much? This was the introductionary sentence of your OP, where i underlined the important part. The next part was a solution suggestion. If we understood you wrong, then the OP construction was wrong. I don't think you are understanding my sentence structure incorrectly. Perhaps it is the assumptions about my frame of mind you made when reading such statements that were incorrect? By saying saying 18+ yeas of training is a bit much I am logically implying that generally everything in the overall skill tree takes too long. Gerald Taric wrote:Anyway.... I can just speak for myself: After one year of playing EVE i reached a skill state with my main character, which is rather satisfactionary. And i just took some skilltime to put it into a second charakter on the same account. And if that "skill state" only took 6 months to attain would you be less satisfied or perhaps filled with rage about how little time it took. I am going to take a guess on that and so no. Gerald Taric wrote:Therefore: No, the time is not too long. Ah, then you would prefer it to be longer then? How about 50 years? 100 years? See what I am getting at there? Making training take less time seems better than making it longer, no? Or did you want a 1,000 year training queue you glutton?
1 MILLION YEARS, pinky to the corner of my mouth .
Tal
|
|
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
635
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Anyone else start a skill, note it will take under a week to ten days to complete, and mumble to themselves, "Great, another short skill..." while wondering what to train next after that...?
Its gotten to the point where I only look for 20+ day skills to train. Granted I don't play much anymore, and hell I even think my skill queue is inactive and has been for acouple days now.
|
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Chribba wrote:18 years you say... that means I'm halfway there nice! Although last time I checked iirc it was 25+ years...
/c
Cool 25+ years even longer, doesn't change my argument.
And being halfway done doesn't mean anything in EVE so it does nothing for you to mention it.
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1199
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:hell I even think my skill queue is inactive and has been for acouple days now. How... how can you bear the pressure?! Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Anyone else start a skill, note it will take under a week to ten days to complete, and mumble to themselves, "Great, another short skill..." while wondering what to train next after that...?
Yep. I look at 30 day plus skills and load them without a second thought now.
The OP does not get Eve. If you are too impatient to wait for the good things you do not deserve them. The only positive I can see from implementing the OPs impertinent idea is that there will be a rapid increase in the number of people flying ships they do not have the real life skills to be flying, and thus a rapid influx of easy to beat pilots.
|
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Chribba wrote:18 years you say... that means I'm halfway there nice! Although last time I checked iirc it was 25+ years...
/c Cool 25+ years even longer, doesn't change my argument. And being halfway done doesn't mean anything in EVE so it does nothing for you to mention it.
Do you know who you are so mindlessly flipping off there?
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
576
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
I say 18 years is not long enough. Idiot players trying to do everything by themselves are a plague for MMOs Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
441
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Yeah, most of that 18 years is taken up with things like Outpost Construction V and niche skills that nobody really needs to train anyway.
Basically the OP is a big dummy who thinks he needs to grind up to Level 80 before he can raid for purples. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:How do you reduce the time it takes to train skills in general without reducing the time it takes to get to level 5?
You do reduce the time it takes to get to level 5 and I see no harm in that overall.
Mara Rinn wrote:Without increasing the multiplier for level 5, reducing training time will impact that 18 years figure.
I'm sure CCP can figure out the technical details, overall its just math. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:No I disagree : )
For one thing I'm not halfway there (except in time) as I have taken breaks and been lax with training sometimes. I like the skill system. You train for what you need and when your done move onto to something else. I like the fact it takes time, I also like the fact I don't have to grind skill points by killing 100 space bunnies.
I have lots of fun. Disagreeing with you doesn't remove the fun from the game. (actually it might add some)
Tal
"I like the skill system."
As do I and I didn't say otherwise.
"You train for what you need and when your done move onto to something else."
Yep, nothing wrong with that and it doesn't disagree with my argument.
"I like the fact it takes time, I also like the fact I don't have to grind skill points by killing 100 space bunnies."
Same here.
If you don't think it takes too long overall to train things in EVE then I guess you wouldn't mind it taking significantly longer than it already does.
You really don't seem to disagree with my argument overall. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3643
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Chribba wrote:18 years you say... that means I'm halfway there nice! Although last time I checked iirc it was 25+ years...
/c Cool 25+ years even longer, doesn't change my argument. And being halfway done doesn't mean anything in EVE so it does nothing for you to mention it. Sure it means something, it means I'm halfway there. Although by the next patch CCP added more skills to make me only 1/4 of the way there so...
And tbh, when I got maxed on SiSi before, those 450m SP didn't make me jack better at PVP so I'm sorry to say, maxing out is NOT an end goal.
/c
|
|
|
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
The beauty of long V's = being able to multitask RL with Eve.
|
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Marcus Ichiro wrote:Training everything isn't the point. I wasn't saying it is. Just that it takes too long overall. Marcus Ichiro wrote:The point is that you're supposed to specialise. Indeed, and this change would make that just a little quicker now wouldn't it.
The training time is an unobtainable goal. Like 'having it all". As such, your suggestion is an attempt to make it obtainable and that is not going to happen.
Just like other games, when you reach "max level", you are done - not quite, they add things that extend it. From EQ1 with AA's through Rift with it's Planar Attunement -- as you approach or obtain those "beyond max level" limits, they added more so you still have something to go for.
So all those skills you don't have but want, you keep training for and still see yourself as advancing and improving. It's part of the designed motivation to keep players playing.
Removal, putting them in reach... Not gonna happen. Too many would go "I got there, I'm done" and that isn't part of the plan for such a game world as this. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
333
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:No I disagree : )
For one thing I'm not halfway there (except in time) as I have taken breaks and been lax with training sometimes. I like the skill system. You train for what you need and when your done move onto to something else. I like the fact it takes time, I also like the fact I don't have to grind skill points by killing 100 space bunnies.
I have lots of fun. Disagreeing with you doesn't remove the fun from the game. (actually it might add some)
Tal "I like the skill system." As do I and I didn't say otherwise. "You train for what you need and when your done move onto to something else." Yep, nothing wrong with that and it doesn't disagree with my argument. "I like the fact it takes time, I also like the fact I don't have to grind skill points by killing 100 space bunnies." Same here. If you don't think it takes too long overall to train things in EVE then I guess you wouldn't mind it taking significantly longer than it already does. You really don't seem to disagree with my argument overall.
I just like it where it is, there is that peculiar sense of accomplishment (I don't know why) when you come to the end of a particularly long training skill.
I think several ppl have said that the returns for lvl 5 are marginal and its more efficient to go to lv l4 (Tippia has a link at the bottom of her sig) then train something else, so if you wanted to, you could take years off doing that.
Tal
|
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:Elzon1 wrote:Chribba wrote:18 years you say... that means I'm halfway there nice! Although last time I checked iirc it was 25+ years...
/c Cool 25+ years even longer, doesn't change my argument. And being halfway done doesn't mean anything in EVE so it does nothing for you to mention it. Do you know who you are so mindlessly flipping off there?
Indeed, the veld king and fervent supporter of all things EVE.
And I don't think what I said was flipping him off. I was merely voicing the argument overall SP count has little to do with how successful you are in EVE.
|
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:Elzon1 wrote:Chribba wrote:18 years you say... that means I'm halfway there nice! Although last time I checked iirc it was 25+ years...
/c Cool 25+ years even longer, doesn't change my argument. And being halfway done doesn't mean anything in EVE so it does nothing for you to mention it. Do you know who you are so mindlessly flipping off there? Indeed, the veld king and fervent supporter of all things EVE. And I don't think what I said was flipping him off. I was merely voicing the argument overall SP count has little to do with how successful you are in EVE.
If SP has little relevance to your success in Eve it then makes no difference how long it takes to earn them. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
113
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
During next 18 years they can add another new 300-400 skills and like 3 new playable rases, areas ,modules, features, here is no end game all is depent Devs imagination. As somone before said eve last steps, is about specialisations, if fact while you even got 200mil sp you cant use all sp at once, so here no sense to train existed skills to lvl 5 :D
For example one of my alts got +40mil sp, but in fact he sitting in naga pass four months, this mean i use only few skills form gunery and spaceship , all rest of sp are like like uselles in frezz mode, so here no sense at all to possess all skills espetialy to lvl5. |
Whisperen
That's Not A Knife Flatline.
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
If the training times where less there would be less demand for alts or even worse other players to play with this is a MMO after all having to depend on fleet/corp/alliance mates to do the things you cant are what make it fun. I mean why even talk to people if you can do it all your self? |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Sure it means something, it means I'm halfway there. Although by the next patch CCP added more skills to make me only 1/4 of the way there so...
And what has that got to do with anything in EVE other than the skill tree itself? Nothing much in terms of success in EVE.
Chribba wrote:And tbh, when I got maxed on SiSi before, those 450m SP didn't make me jack better at PVP so I'm sorry to say, maxing out is NOT an end goal.
/c
Even you agree that SP count has little to do with success in EVE as I do.
At no point did I say maxing out is an end goal. It just takes to long overall to train and that includes all skills to level V.
You see in order for me to say training takes too long in EVE I have to say training everything overall takes too long.
I constructed my argument in a logical way and at the same time I drew out the assumption that people thought I wanted to traing everything to level V like a nub. People seem to be fighting an assumption and not the actual argument I am making.
Argument: Training takes too long.
Assumption with argument: "He thinks training makes him better, nub"
I am merely making the argument that training takes too long and I am not insinuating anything about training, just it's overall length.
If someone thinks training doesn't take too long I leave it up to them to come up with a reason outside of their opinion.
Shortening the overall training time can improve user experience and any argument to the contrary seems folly. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:If SP has little relevance to your success in Eve it then makes no difference how long it takes to earn them.
Then why not just shorten it? Why waste time training when you could be having fun being blown up in that new ship now? |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 09:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:If SP has little relevance to your success in Eve it then makes no difference how long it takes to earn them. Then why not just shorten it? Why waste time training when you could be having fun being blown up in that new ship now?
Because that is one of the things what separates Eve Online from the silly little clone MMOs for kiddies.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |