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Gerald Taric
Adamantium Industry
63
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:37:00 -
[91] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:[...]Or did you want a 1,000 year training queue you glutton? "you glutton" = overeater, chowhound, greedy pig,
If you want to discuss, do it in constructive way. Try again without insult.
Until then i remain with "NO" like many others here. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
138
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:ModeratedToSilence wrote:Because that is one of the things what separates Eve Online from the silly little clone MMOs for kiddies.
And shortening the training time from 25+ years to about 10 years is going to turn EVE into a theme park MMO. I don't think so.
CCP should increase EvE training time to 50 years, not the other way around. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2012.06.05 11:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote:Training everything isn't the point. The point is that you're supposed to specialise.
That would be true only if you started Minmatar or Amarr, if you started Gallente then you have no other choice at some point because balance is not intended to make stuff equal, balance is made so you have the feeling of being good at eve because you fly minmatar and angel even if it's a lie but your internet e peen doesn't care about anything else.
Sad panda brb |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
Gerald Taric wrote:Elzon1 wrote:[...]Or did you want a 1,000 year training queue you glutton? "you glutton" = overeater, chowhound, greedy pig, If you want to discuss, do it in constructive way. Try again without insult. Until then i remain with " NO" like many others here.
Whoops sorry about that. I have gotten a little tired and forgot to include the other part of that last word ... for punishment...
In other words I didn't simply mean glutton. I meant to say "glutton for punishment" the idiom and instead I just typed "glutton".
My apologies for not correcting that mistake.
I respect that you are of the opinion that the overall training length should stay the same or increase.
Of course, I just don't see good reason for the training length to exceed a decade.
I will probably talk to the CSM about this and get their take on the matter in terms of the future of EVE. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
220
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
That's what I love the most about eve: can't get everything in a few months. Think ahead, and maybe add a new account if you can't wait. One of the best things: no grinding for EXP. EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
318
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:10:00 -
[96] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Gerald Taric wrote:Elzon1 wrote:[...]Or did you want a 1,000 year training queue you glutton? "you glutton" = overeater, chowhound, greedy pig, If you want to discuss, do it in constructive way. Try again without insult. Until then i remain with " NO" like many others here. Whoops sorry about that. I have gotten a little tired and forgot to include the other part of that last word ... for punishment... In other words I didn't simply mean glutton. I meant to say "glutton for punishment" the idiom and instead I just typed "glutton". My apologies for not correcting that mistake. I respect that you are of the opinion that the overall training length should stay the same or increase. Of course, I just don't see good reason for the training length to exceed a decade. I will probably talk to the CSM about this and get their take on the matter in terms of the future of EVE.
Lol, still insisting that we want the time increased just because we think your idea is dumb. The idea of accelerating skill training has been discussed and dismissed long before you ever got here, it is a dead subject.
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7663
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
No, 18 years is not too long for the simple reason that it doesn't take 18 years.
Tippia is 4-+ years old. She will be GÇ£finishedGÇ¥ training in less than a year (-¦ some stuff just added for fun that I might end up skipping).
Once that is done, I'm thinking about starting a new character doing something else (or, rather, doing the same thing, but with more focus since this character does everything).
It does not take much time to respec into something new because there are only two large trunks to the skill tree: ships and science. Once you start either path, you are done with the foundation in very short order and anything on top of that is just garnish. If you want to change focus within each branch, it's just a matter of adding a different garnish and each of those have their own, thinners set of branches with their own foundations that take very little time to finish. Shifting from one main trunk to the other is a slightly bigger undertaking, but it's all just a matter of building that foundation, and you have to cross-train between the two anyway to make the character useful.
GǪunless you go the alt route and do both at once on different characters, effectively cutting those 18 years down to 9.
In fact, people are already running out of things to train so CCP should probably think of some way to extend those 18 years to at least 25GÇô30 (again, since the reduction 18 was just a en effect of having more efficient skill training tools at our disposal). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Velicitia
Open Designs
977
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:15:00 -
[98] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:This is perfect business model where new subscribers have to pay for a year (or two) long subscription to get decent pilot (compared to 9-15 days character leveling time in SWTOR or Rift) +
this model support status quo where old subscribers are superior to new pilots. So every older subscriber will tell you it's perfect having toons with 20+ millions SP in engineering, navigation, electronics, etc.
WTF are you talking about?
You're "very good" (i.e. all the recommended certs) in a Frigate in ~30 days (5 weeks, tops including web/scram/ab/mwd). I don't remember offhand, but I'm pretty sure that this doesn't include the "extra" support skills (gunnery/missiles, or some of the other things for the other support certs) -- so it's just "very good in a Frigate".
Make it 3 months, and you've achieved some/many of the other support certs (high velocity helmsman, etc). You're also in Cruisers/BC in this time. Make it 6 months, and you're "good" (bordering on very good) in a battleship ...
After that, it's getting things to L4/5 as necessary, filling out your T2 arsenal (you're probably just using T2 tank or guns at 6 months), and deciding whether or not to train this class or that class to L5... not to mention expanding your versatility (e.g. a new racial line of ships). |
Gerald Taric
Adamantium Industry
63
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:My apologies for not correcting that mistake. Acceptet, although i'm not sure, what it would mean now.
Anyway:
Rising the training time would result in a stronger force to choose the wanted skills wisely. But it also would rise frustration, as it will take *too much* time to reach anything.
Lowering it too much would result in new people gaining "everything" too fast. As EVE has no fixed "endgame", we should not gain the feeling of possible reaching "the end". "Now i got all, i could quit, no challenges anymore."
I think, we reached something which could only evaluated in a subjective way.
As a common observable fact we could state, that not everyone can be pleased by a decission done. Especially not, if the amount of people being affected is getting high.
It looks like that many people are okay with the current situation.
How much do you want the training time being decreased? And what if - after that - the next one comes up with .... "it's (still) too much time for me ..." Where do you feel the preassure of needing less tringing time so much?
I personally am fine with the current situation. Yesterday i set some skills for another charakter for me to reach a "good drake fitting". Takes some days. But not that much, which would cause a "this is insane!"-feeling.
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
31
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:You realise that there are characters in game who are (if I recall the max SP potential correctly) more than halfway through this yes?
Indeed.
Jacob Holland wrote:You realise that people like Dr Caymus were apparently running out of industrial and science skills at the time neural remaps came in yes?
Yes.
Jacob Holland wrote:You realise that, as a miner, you can reach the peak of your training and have to search for something else in around six months; as a broader Industrialist in a couple of years...?
Yeah.
Jacob Holland wrote:Have you looked at the threads from various characters looking for viable training routes because they feel they've trained everything they want to by 60 or 80 million SPs?
Yes, I have read a few threads like that.
Did you actually read my post? It doesn't seem like you did. None of what you posted causes any problems with what I suggested in my post.
Just in case you didn't read my post I shall copy it here for you:
Elzon1 wrote: The time it takes to train everything in EVE to it's maximum base potential doesn't seem very sane really. Isn't 18+ years of training a bit much?
Simple suggestion: Take the character with the most SP and add 1 month's worth of SP on top of that. Now compress the time it takes to complete all skills to level V proportionately so that it equals that character's total training plus 1 month. After doing that give back the total SP lost in compressing all those skill times. Of course, you would do this for everyone.
Doing this will reduce everyone's training time without alienating those of the highest SP level.
I think this is an equitable suggestion and will help bring about a saner EVE.
Maybe it will help EVE out of beta a little bit too...
All I am proposing is that the max training time be set to what the highest SP character has plus 1 month.
After compressing all the skills down proportionately players are reimbursed SP accordingly.
After the SP reimbursement the highest SP player would have only 1 month left of training to do and then would run out of things to train.
Whenever a new skill is to be added all other skills get compressed proportionately a little bit and the new skill is shimmied in. Of course all players will be reimbursed their SP from the compression. If the player in question was previously maxed out then all he/she has to do is apply the reimbursed to the new skill and once again the player in question will be maxed out.
All I want is for CCP to establish a maximum training time and stick with it. The maximum of course decided by the max SP character so as to not alienate veterans. |
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Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
344
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:28:00 -
[101] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote:Training everything isn't the point. The point is that you're supposed to specialise.
The point is that they want you to buy multiple accounts.
... |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
318
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:
ONE WORD REPLIES TO OTHER PEOPLES POSTS CONSISTING OF VARIATIONS OF THE WORD YES
LOTS AND LOTS OF RAMPANT STUPIDITY
MORE DRIBBLE
All I am proposing is that the max training time be set to what the highest SP character has plus 1 month.
After compressing all the skills down proportionately players are reimbursed SP accordingly.
After the SP reimbursement the highest SP player would have only 1 month left of training to do and then would run out of things to train.
Whenever a new skill is to be added all other skills get compressed proportionately a little bit and the new skill is shimmied in. Of course all players will be reimbursed their SP from the compression. If the player in question was previously maxed out then all he/she has to do is apply the reimbursed to the new skill and once again the player in question will be maxed out.
All I want is for CCP to establish a maximum training time and stick with it. The maximum of course decided by the max SP character so as to not alienate veterans.
There is no need, at all, whatsoever, for training times to be compressed. All your ideas are worthless, it's just that most people here are too polite to actually come right out and say it. Your idea is dumb, this thread is dumb and you should feel dumb for having done it. The fact that you don't understand WHY we don't need or want skill times reduced means that any further discussion with you on this topic is as pointless as two bald men fighting over a comb. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7664
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:All I am proposing is that the max training time be set to what the highest SP character has plus 1 month. After compressing all the skills down proportionately players are reimbursed SP accordingly. After the SP reimbursement the highest SP player would have only 1 month left of training to do and then would run out of things to train. GǪand the question remains: why?
What you're proposing makes no sense. It doesn't solve any problems. Having a GÇ£max training timeGÇ¥ is not GÇ£saneGÇ¥ (quite the opposite). All you're doing is devaluing years worth of SP for no good reason and frustrating those who have spent those years to get there. You're effectively removing the planning, specialisation, and decision-making properties of the skill system, all because you are a bit impatient and/or don't think things through before picking the skills you train. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
792
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:The point is that they want you to buy multiple accounts.
CCP is a business, not a charity. eh |
Neftaran
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Li3 Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.06.05 13:54:00 -
[105] - Quote
This way they force a player that enjoys the game to purchase multiple accounts. This 'game' is super niche and does not attract volumes of customers so they must offset it somehow. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
4
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:05:00 -
[106] - Quote
Cry Baby: They nerfed my super specialized toon. I want my SP back
Troll: Eve is hard. Can i have your stuff ?
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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
197
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:10:00 -
[107] - Quote
Quote:on the gameplay side the rationale is that EVE is all about meaningful trade-offs and that forced specialization encourages cooperation between players.
Though the reality is of course people just wind up with 2+ accounts and various specialized non-training alts. Which I'm not necessarily saying is a bad thing, but it has to be acknowledged in any discussion on the subject.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 14:17:00 -
[108] - Quote
Neftaran wrote:This way they force a player that enjoys the game to purchase multiple accounts. This 'game' is super niche and does not attract volumes of customers so they must offset it somehow.
From 10 ive left 2 that will end in a single one once I've reached my goal with second char. It's tedious enough. brb |
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
60
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
I want to go to college and get a degree in EVERYTHING! MAKE COLLEGE SHORTER KKTHXBAI?! Naga stole my bike!
Talos, the official Pizza Wedge of the Gallente Federation. |
Cap'in Haddock
Haddock's Legitimate Trading
1
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:24:00 -
[110] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote: After the SP reimbursement the highest SP player would have only 1 month left of training to do and then would run out of things to train.
Running out of things to train?
DO NOT WANT
(Seriously, Listen to Chribba. Suckle at the teat of his knowledge) |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2009
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
Ideally you should never run out of things to train for, new skills to try and attain.
This applies both in and out of game. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Widow Cain
15
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:35:00 -
[112] - Quote
I think it [training] is just about perfect time wise. If I had gained faster I would not be able to afford the ships I could fly and would not know the things I need to know so I would just get blown up frustrated and not be here. OMG You are sooo pixel macho... |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
275
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
The "don't change Eve it's perfect" crowd always comes out in force when this idea is proposed. The players with a nine-year training advantage aren't about to give that up. Eve is hard and should be harder. That's the only answer you'll ever get from this crowd. |
c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
47
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:53:00 -
[114] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:The time it takes to train everything in EVE to it's maximum base potential doesn't seem very sane really. Isn't 18+ years of training a bit much?
Simple suggestion: Take the character with the most SP and add 1 month's worth of SP on top of that. Now compress the time it takes to complete all skills to level V proportionately so that it equals that character's total training plus 1 month. After doing that give back the total SP lost in compressing all those skill times. Of course, you would do this for everyone.
Doing this will reduce everyone's training time without alienating those of the highest SP level.
I think this is an equitable suggestion and will help bring about a saner EVE.
Maybe it will help EVE out of beta a little bit too...
**** you go away. This is exactly the kind of mentality we don't need in EVE. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2010
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Posted - 2012.06.05 14:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The "don't change Eve it's perfect" crowd always comes out in force when this idea is proposed. The players with a nine-year training advantage aren't about to give that up. Eve is hard and should be harder. That's the only answer you'll ever get from this crowd.
Urban myth's are fun aren't they...
A 9 month old character can do the things he is specialized in just as well as I can, I can merely do a wider variety of things. Since I can't fly more than one ship at the same time, that's not much of an advantage now is it.
If you find yourself losing to an older character, it usually has little to do with his experience point total. I suppose it is nice to have something to blame your failure on that the uneducated will readily believe. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:05:00 -
[116] - Quote
Meh... get 18 alts and you could do it all in year :P |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
15
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:How do you reduce the time it takes to train skills in general without reducing the time it takes to get to level 5? Without increasing the multiplier for level 5, reducing training time will impact that 18 years figure. You could implement a system where you gain skills rapidly at first, slow down after a while, and then slow to a crawl after a certain mark. It would be an extension of the current skill training philosophy, but based around total skill points instead of specific skills.
You could give specialization bonuses based around combat, industry, science, etc. If you're interested in training ship skills and that's almost all you do, then you train at an increased speed, but if you've specialized at ship skills and then try industry skills, it takes you longer than someone who's specialized in industry.
Those are just two systems but I could think of a couple more if your goal is to speed up training in individual skills while keeping an 18-year total for maxing all skills. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
213
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:10:00 -
[118] - Quote
bad post
1. the long training time means you have tough choices on what to train for 2. the long training time means there is no end-game in regards to training On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
88
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Posted - 2012.06.05 15:20:00 -
[119] - Quote
Martin0 wrote:Eve is about specialization. You are NOT supposed to train everything.
So confirming EvE is NOT a Sandbox then. End of Debate. Thanks for playing. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
138
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 15:21:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The "don't change Eve it's perfect" crowd always comes out in force when this idea is proposed. The players with a nine-year training advantage aren't about to give that up. Eve is hard and should be harder. That's the only answer you'll ever get from this crowd.
"This crowd" is the EvE Online players, you know, the people that CCP makes the game for.
Now, on the other hand, "your crowd" is the theme parkers whiners that have quit EvE months ago but still post every single day. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
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