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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
457
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Posted - 2012.06.06 16:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
I agree for the most part.
But would point out a few things:
1) Pvpers only base out of a de minimis number of systems. For example, Minmatar can easilly get all the highest economic rewards and completely ignore Kamela and Sahtogas.
2) To the extent you say epeen is the driver to do plexes then you are to that extent saying consequences added by ccp are not the driver. I don't really care whether its epeen or isk that drives people. I just want some sort of sensible backdrop to this war. I want a larger context that my pvp efforts fit into. Currently pvp efforts are too far removed from the new consequences. Alt plexing is the most efficient way to actually garner the rewarding consequences ccp added.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
75
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
1) Pvpers only base out of a de minimis number of systems. For example, Minmatar can easilly get all the highest economic rewards and completely ignore Kamela and Sahtogas.
Minmatar have lost 3 systems in just a few days. They have too many systems too defend and Amarr can easily defend what they have (see: Said). I would say, working as intended.
Quote: 2) To the extent you say epeen is the driver to do plexes then you are to that extent saying consequences added by ccp are not the driver. I don't really care whether its epeen or isk that drives people. I just want some sort of sensible backdrop to this war. I want a larger context that my pvp efforts fit into. Currently pvp efforts are too far removed from the new consequences. Alt plexing is the most efficient way to actually garner the rewarding consequences ccp added.
LP means nothing to me really, but I really want the Dal/Auga/Sis/Vard pocket. So that is where I spend my time plexing. Call it ePeen or whatever, I have a "purpose". PVE might matter the most from 0-50% contested. But once you are in the most contested systems you will face PVP as your goals contradict those of the other faction. We're getting constant fights in systems that are being actively plexed, both offensive and defensive.
BTW, the "button orbiting" alts have little affect on FW. The only way to take a system is for there to be a concentrated effort to do so. 39 hours of plexing (that's 116 total offensive plexs ran) is not going to be affected by alts in stabbed frigates.
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Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
32
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Should a system flip without PVP happening?
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Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
212
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Posted - 2012.06.06 18:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:
BTW, the "button orbiting" alts have little affect on FW. The only way to take a system is for there to be a concentrated effort to do so. 39 hours of plexing (that's 116 total offensive plexs ran) is not going to be affected by alts in stabbed frigates.
Dude, it's caldari, we're not talking a few farming alts, we're talking an army of them. :)
That beeing said, VP could be awarded for kills based on the same LP is (market value) . That way if you want to kill your alt in a tengu 50 times to flip a system, feel free to, otherwise it's simply not going to happen. And if the fact that some remote systems never see pvp is a concern, VP could be awarded directly to players and then they could be used to capture a system p much the same way LP is used to upgrade a system atm .
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
265
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Posted - 2012.06.06 18:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening? I'd be p happy if FW capture mechanics were designed to produce fights 100% of the time for a system flip to happen.
You're aware that structure grinding in 0.0 also can lead to systems flipping without PvP happening, right? Some alliances may choose to let the enemy waste their time grinding structures as a strategy then eventually pushing back with a higher morale. At first, I thought the gallente militia was employing a simillar tactic, letting the caldari burn themselves out from grinding plexes then take back a flurry of systems. However it seems that a lot of the gallente militia just don't want to leave their hives. It seems like most of the gallente militia must be herded by an FC to go out and do stuff in a blob rather than small gang. Guys like loren, chatgris, and princess nexx at least have the balls to go out in smaller (even solo) gangs to get fights while dothers sit in their stations and cry for fights to come to them because they don't want to put forth the effort to go out and find them. If you don't go out and stop people from plexing chances are you're likely not going to get PvP because you're not going out to look for it, and yes systems will fall because you're not out defending them (what a concept!). Sometimes you'll die to a 40 man frig gatecamp when you roam (sometimes twice a day ) but that's part of the game. Yes there are farmers that will blueball you and yes it's annoying, but in the end everyone has to ask "how much do i value this system?", if it was nenna/nis you guys would be orbiting buttons to decontest even if there was no fight to be had. I imagine stationless pipe systems will flip-flop between militias because there's no incentive to defend them (except catching plexers in the act and trying to get fights).
I for one and excited to see a lot more gallente going out in smaller gangs to find fights rather than the "jesus blob" sitting in heyd, nenna, nisuwa, or rakapas all day waiting for a caldari gang to knocking at the door and attempt to overblob/reship to get the exact counter fleet comp to the caldari gang. I see qcats, villore accords, and the screaming war eagles/other corps in my area getting constant fights, I don't see that many SOTF around i'm not sure if that's due to bittervet syndrome. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
458
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Cearain wrote:
1) Pvpers only base out of a de minimis number of systems. For example, Minmatar can easilly get all the highest economic rewards and completely ignore Kamela and Sahtogas.
Minmatar have lost 3 systems in just a few days. They have too many systems too defend and Amarr can easily defend what they have (see: Said). I would say, working as intended.
I do agree its working as intended and kudos to ccp in this aspect of balance. But I don't think its because there are "too many systems to defend." The amount of territory you can defend is a matter of how many players you have and the amarr don't have allot more players. And indeed since they can dock throughout minmatar have some advantage. One reason I think we took a few systems has more to do with the whole no lp for defensive plexing bit. CCP using the selfishness of its playerbase as a balance mechanic is pretty cool. Regardless of whether it works int he end.
There are other reasons why we took systems as well.
Jones Bones wrote:Quote: 2) To the extent you say epeen is the driver to do plexes then you are to that extent saying consequences added by ccp are not the driver. I don't really care whether its epeen or isk that drives people. I just want some sort of sensible backdrop to this war. I want a larger context that my pvp efforts fit into. Currently pvp efforts are too far removed from the new consequences. Alt plexing is the most efficient way to actually garner the rewarding consequences ccp added.
LP means nothing to me really, but I really want the Dal/Auga/Sis/Vard pocket. So that is where I spend my time plexing. Call it ePeen or whatever, I have a "purpose". PVE might matter the most from 0-50% contested. But once you are in the most contested systems you will face PVP as your goals contradict those of the other faction. We're getting constant fights in systems that are being actively plexed, both offensive and defensive.
I would much prefer more isk to less isk myself. So I admit being a greedy bastard motiviated by isk.
To get a system to 50% contested is allot of pve.
My limitted plexing has been going on in the same systems you called out. Auga and dal were completely decontested Siseide at like 10%.
Jones Bones wrote: BTW, the "button orbiting" alts have little affect on FW. The only way to take a system is for there to be a concentrated effort to do so. 39 hours of plexing (that's 116 total offensive plexs ran) is not going to be affected by alts in stabbed frigates.
Why do you think the systems you have been plexing are completely decontested? Jones welcome to the world of faction war plexing.
But to be fair, I will admit the last 2 times I logged on plenty of minmatar were willing to fight. The mechanic may be flawed but as long as the minmatar don't take too much advantage of the flaw, I guess it shouldn't bother me.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
458
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening?
Minmatar don't need another excuse to avoid pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
0
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
My 5 cents:
Make system capture 100% PvP is technically impossible due fact that other side may decide not to show up and there is no way to force it to do so. So forget about it - that is not possible in this reality. You can only propose PvP by giving rewards for it or making life unpleasant for not doing it (what CCP did with station lock out and other stuff). About complains of PvPers that its not enough PvP now - lets imagine that one side has left only one system. That means that all l33t PvPers will be concentrated in it to defend plexes in it 23/7 and all enemies players (mains and alts alike) will be going to same system to capture it. So at that moment You will get Your wet dream - PvP content that has been provided to You on silver platter straight to Your doors. So just relax, lean back and enjoy ride :) |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
257
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening? I'd be p happy if FW capture mechanics were designed to produce fights 100% of the time for a system flip to happen. If nobody shows up to defend, then hell yes it should be flipped.
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
228
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening?
Minmatar don't need another excuse to avoid pvp.
Neither do Gallente.. |
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
63
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Cearain wrote:Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening?
Minmatar don't need another excuse to avoid pvp. Neither do Gallente..
Squids be squidding Is sexy time? |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
458
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Posted - 2012.06.06 20:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Cearain wrote:Annie Anomie wrote:Should a system flip without PVP happening?
Minmatar don't need another excuse to avoid pvp. Neither do Gallente.. They complain on the forums about losing systems & being out plexed, but truth is they never show up to the bunkers and they rarely bother to do any defensive plexing. They run off and farm LP's for offensive plexes but never defend, then sit here on the forums and complain that Caldari are taking their systems. Meanwhile Caldari has decent amount of defenders because we aren't lazy, and we go more than 3 jumps from our home systems to defend. There have been a few systems of Caldari's that have hit 80-90% contested and Caldari has defended each. Meanwhile Gal systems keep going vulnerable. Much less the bulk of the systems Caldari have captured have been with-in a few jumps of Gallente home systems. Meaning it's not like we are capturing systems all over the map, aside from Ladister (which is 2 jumps from Heydieles anyway).
Thats great, son. I am very proud of you. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
228
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Posted - 2012.06.06 20:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Thats great, son. I am very proud of you.
Bahh I'm lite on the plexing end. I show up to bunkers when I'm online and typically do some defensive plexes to help out with a handful of offensive here & there, but the hard work is done by others.
I like taking out small BC gangs with our corp and sadly there isn't a lot of plex fighting to be done with those. The bulk of the plex fighting is done with frigs, dessies & cruisers. We have several guys in our corp that go plexing much more than I do, but even as a corp we aren't focused heavily on plexing. (although I do try to push it)
I'm however am pretty heavy on the trolling Gal Militia war front. |
marketjacker
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
33
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Posted - 2012.06.06 23:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Trolling yourself perhaps. Pretty sure no one really cares that enjoys pvp. You sure aren't any better at that. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
230
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Posted - 2012.06.07 09:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
marketjacker wrote:Trolling yourself perhaps. Pretty sure no one really cares that enjoys pvp. You sure aren't any better at that.
You are always so bitter and full of the hateraide. |
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