Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 22:36:00 -
[1]
As the title says... now that we have "sized" rigs, why weren't any "XL" sized rigs introduced, for usage only on capital ships ?
If you look at ships by mass, you'll see : ~1mil kg ships use "small" rigs, ~10mil kg ships use "medium" rigs (component cost roughly x5 of small rigs), ~100mil kg ships use "large" rigs (componet cost roughly x25 of small rigs, or x5 of medium rigs) ...but... ~1000mil kg ships (caps) STILL use "large" rigs, instead of having "extra large" (XL) rigs (which would cost about x5 in components compared to a large rig, or x125 compared to a small one).
If you're "balancing" something, you might as well balance it all the way - capships are quite heavily used, so why not make them (FROM NOW ON) more expensive to lose (when rigged) by bumping up the needed rig prices (through higher material costs) ?
And while you're at it... why don't we also have 1GN (1000MN) AB/MWDs ? Yeah, I know, I know, it would be a bit too crazy to see MWDing carriers at no-propulsion-mod frigate speeds, so I can understant why we don't have them.
But XL rigs aren't that crazy, and we SHOULD have them.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 22:45:00 -
[2]
I concur. Additionally, if the Navy Mega is going to get SCREWED with it's new paint job, I think that all the rest of the faction ships should be inflicted with similar treatments: Navy Raven, Navy Apoc etc. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
|
Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 22:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T And while you're at it... why don't we also have 1GN (1000MN) AB/MWDs ?
...
Yes. Just because I want to try to cram one into a battleship.
|
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 23:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I concur. Additionally, if the Navy Mega is going to get SCREWED with it's new paint job, I think that all the rest of the faction ships should be inflicted with similar treatments: Navy Raven, Navy Apoc etc.
additionally boost blasters! (am i doin it rite?)
the navy raven got screwed with the fancy graphics upgrade, wtb classic cnr
although yes xl rigs! You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
|
Bestofworst
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.09.17 23:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Akita T As the title says... now that we have "sized" rigs, why weren't any "XL" sized rigs introduced, for usage only on capital ships ?
If you look at ships by mass, you'll see : ~1mil kg ships use "small" rigs, ~10mil kg ships use "medium" rigs (component cost roughly x5 of small rigs), ~100mil kg ships use "large" rigs (componet cost roughly x25 of small rigs, or x5 of medium rigs) ...but... ~1000mil kg ships (caps) STILL use "large" rigs, instead of having "extra large" (XL) rigs (which would cost about x5 in components compared to a large rig, or x125 compared to a small one).
If you're "balancing" something, you might as well balance it all the way - capships are quite heavily used, so why not make them (FROM NOW ON) more expensive to lose (when rigged) by bumping up the needed rig prices (through higher material costs) ?
And while you're at it... why don't we also have 1GN (1000MN) AB/MWDs ? Yeah, I know, I know, it would be a bit too crazy to see MWDing carriers at no-propulsion-mod frigate speeds, so I can understant why we don't have them.
But XL rigs aren't that crazy, and we SHOULD have them.
Because I touch myself at night. ---- My Music
Anything I say is only what I think. If you have a problem with me, take it up with me. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 00:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bestofworst Because I touch myself at night.
Dammit, I knew there WAS some obscure reason
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Steve Thomas
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 00:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Bestofworst Because I touch myself at night.
Dammit, I knew there WAS some obscure reason
well the real reason is probably because they have no clue as to what X to increase the drop rate of salvage.
After all while 5X is probably too high 2X is probably too low, and honestly do we realy want the developers making that kind of decision?
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Arec Bardwin
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 01:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
But XL rigs aren't that crazy, and we SHOULD have them.
XL Trimarks would be around 100m XL CCC would be around 50m
Looks fine to me.
|
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 02:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I concur. Additionally, if the Navy Mega is going to get SCREWED with it's new paint job, I think that all the rest of the faction ships should be inflicted with similar treatments: Navy Raven, Navy Apoc etc.
This comment is useless without pics. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 03:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Steve Thomas well the real reason is probably because they have no clue as to what X to increase the drop rate of salvage.
Drop rate of salvage won't get changed, you probably mean manufacture cost ?
Originally by: Steve Thomas After all while 5X is probably too high 2X is probably too low, and honestly do we realy want the developers making that kind of decision?
They already made that kind of decision for the medium and small rigs, and the decision was "x5 per size class".
Frigates cost from 30k to 300k ISK, destroyers under 1 mil, but small rigs will end up somewhere between 250k and 750k a piece (so more than the ship cost for most frigate/rig combos, and between 75% to 25% of destroyer prices)... but then again the absolute cost is minimal, so who cares about percentages when the modules themselves cost more if they're T2 ?
Cruisers cost between 3 and 8 mil ISK, battlecruisers up to almost 35 mil ISK, medium rigs will probably end up costing between 1-3 mil ISK (down to 12.5% for cruisers, between 9% and 3% for battlecruisers). Of course, it looks different for T2 ships, but let's leave those out for a moment because they already have an "uninsureable" quantity to them (goes for T2 battleships too).
Battleships cost between 60 and 180 mil ISK, a large rig costs around 5-15 mil ISK (25% to 8% of ship cost).
So far, for the only ship clases where it matters, the rig cost would hover at or above 10% of the ship cost (PER RIG). __
Now, carriers... well, they "should" cost around 700-800 mil even if you can find some dirt-cheap ones now and then, and an Orca (which should also use XL rigs) even for under 400 mil. On the other hand, dreads can go over 1.5 bil, and the supercaps... let's not even start assigning numbers. So, let's tug at it a bit and adjust it to, say 450 mil to 1.35 bil (to get a similar setup like battleship price ranges) per ship... following the same rules, we might conclude that 40-115 mil per "XL" rig would be about right, at a (roughly) x7.5 cost compared to large (battleship) rigs.
Under those circumstances, a mere x5 hike in material costs for XL rigs is NOT "probably too high", it's actually quite damn low. On the other hand, x10 would be a tad bit on the expensive side. But x5 ? Just about right. And since everything else is at x5 in rig prices... eh, to hell with it, why not ?
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
|
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 05:18:00 -
[11]
This thread makes far too much sense.
Supercap pilot (note that numbers come mainly from my nether region):
"I just spent 15 billion on my MS and 50 billion on all faction and officer modules, but those can be removed and reused. I just don't think 50 mil for 3 rigs that I can't remove without losing that ISK is a wise decision."
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
|
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 06:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I concur. Additionally, if the Navy Mega is going to get SCREWED with it's new paint job, I think that all the rest of the faction ships should be inflicted with similar treatments: Navy Raven, Navy Apoc etc.
CCP just hasn't gotten bored of nerfing gallente yet. I suppose it is our "turn" though. Hopefully soon (within the next 365 days) all these injustices will be corrected.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 06:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I concur. Additionally, if the Navy Mega is going to get SCREWED with it's new paint job, I think that all the rest of the faction ships should be inflicted with similar treatments: Navy Raven, Navy Apoc etc.
This comment is useless without pics.
See my entire thread on the subject in GD. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
|
BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 06:27:00 -
[14]
Hell No,
carriers are expensive enough as is
whats that? 1b is not much isk these days?
Hows about HELL YES 1b is alot of isk, for the casual player who rats every now and then when he has to and prefers doing things non-pve-is-eye-tearing-out related, even 100mill is heaps.
I myself have never owned more than 470mill isk.
Troll away.
EVE Trivia EVE History
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 06:31:00 -
[15]
I completely agree.
Capitals and supercaps should need XL-rigs and not L-rigs.
Everything else makes absolutely no sense. And to those people who say 'oh noes, to expensive'. Well, if it is to expensive, then don't fly a capital ship if you don't have the money to fit it.
|
Lance Fighter
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 06:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BiggestT Hell No,
carriers are expensive enough as is
whats that? 1b is not much isk these days?
Hows about HELL YES 1b is alot of isk, for the casual player who rats every now and then when he has to and prefers doing things non-pve-is-eye-tearing-out related, even 100mill is heaps.
I myself have never owned more than 470mill isk.
Troll away.
Carriers are extremely cheap at the moment.. Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. LAnce is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
Doddy
The Executives IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 07:30:00 -
[17]
OP makes way too much sense, must be a troll. Still t2 XL rigs are gonna be pricy....
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 07:41:00 -
[18]
Would remove T2 rigs from normal caps pretty much, so no, crappy idea.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 07:57:00 -
[19]
With current rigs having been designed to have a factor of 5 in price between them, XL rigs would be 100M+ each.
It is bad enough on BS hulls as rigs are a write-off in case of death, making capitals more expensive wont improve the game and cause unnecessary frustration.
Besides, with Titan blobs capable of insta-popping whole dread fleets coming to a neighbourhood near you. no amount of rigging will help
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 07:58:00 -
[20]
The only minor problem being what do you do with current capitals and super capitals fit with L rigs already? Do they pop off the ship and every cap pilot has to do terrible logistics for new rigs or do old capital ships get a free isk bonus by having their rigs upgraded to XL and newer pilots suffer. Or maybe a comedy CCP option where everyone gets screwed and ****ed off.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
|
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 08:24:00 -
[21]
This was asked in the original thread announcing the different rigs.
The devs responded that they had indeed made Capital size rigs or as you state XL rigs but had decided not to put them live at the time. We may get to the point they do sometimes or not hard to say. The main reason they decided not to was the cost.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 08:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua This was asked in the original thread announcing the different rigs.
The devs responded that they had indeed made Capital size rigs or as you state XL rigs but had decided not to put them live at the time. We may get to the point they do sometimes or not hard to say. The main reason they decided not to was the cost.
Good decision by the Devs.
|
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 08:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua The devs responded that they had indeed made Capital size rigs or as you state XL rigs but had decided not to put them live at the time. [...] The main reason they decided not to was the cost.
What ? A 20-to-100 mil pricetag on T1 XL rigs was TOO MUCH ?!? Too much for what ? Geez...
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Irongut
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 12:13:00 -
[24]
There are already more expensive rigs for capitals, they're called T2 rigs. No one would put XL T2 rigs on a carrier or dread if they cost 5x the price of L ones now because they'd cost more than the ship.
-- Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 12:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua This was asked in the original thread announcing the different rigs.
The devs responded that they had indeed made Capital size rigs or as you state XL rigs but had decided not to put them live at the time. We may get to the point they do sometimes or not hard to say. The main reason they decided not to was the cost.
This. Learn to read devblogs. That also means reading the respective thread that accompanies it.
But in all seriousness...cost? Generally, people whom fork over 15 bil for a ship and twice that amount for the mods have way more money than sense. Let them pay throgh the nose for XL (T2) rigs. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 18:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Irongut There are already more expensive rigs for capitals, they're called T2 rigs.
They're not expensive enough for what they give.
Quote: No one would put XL T2 rigs on a carrier or dread if they cost 5x the price of L ones now because they'd cost more than the ship.
T2 rigs already cost more than the ship on MOST ships (with the exception of a select few T2 ships, mostly battleship class, and T3 ships), what's wrong with a T2 XL rig costing as much as a whole dread ? So what if only supercaps would receive T2 rigs on a more or less regular basis, what's wrong with T1 rigs that they are "so beneath" a carrier/dread pilot ? Huh ?
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Rilwar
BlackStar Industrial
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 21:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Originally by: Akita T And while you're at it... why don't we also have 1GN (1000MN) AB/MWDs ?
...
Yes. Just because I want to try to cram one into a battleship.
/thread
-------------------------------------------------
Mitnal was here. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 21:12:00 -
[28]
To be completely honest, Akita, it probably has to do with the immense amount of salvage materials it would require to build them. You'd see the prices of some subcapital rigs skyrocket (for example, anything that uses the same materials as a Trimark Armor Pump) without commensurate changes to the drop rate or build requirements of other salvage and/or rigs, and that entire rebalancing headache is something CCP probably does NOT want to deal with when they have the whole Dominion thing coming up. ----
|
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 21:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin To be completely honest, Akita, it probably has to do with the immense amount of salvage materials it would require to build them. You'd see the prices of some subcapital rigs skyrocket (for example, anything that uses the same materials as a Trimark Armor Pump) without commensurate changes to the drop rate or build requirements of other salvage and/or rigs, and that entire rebalancing headache is something CCP probably does NOT want to deal with when they have the whole Dominion thing coming up.
The demand ended up dropping heavily a while after they introduced the medium/small sized rigs, since not everybody has to fit the expensive "large" ones if they fly a cruiser or a battlecruiser (and not enough new people take advantage of the cheaper smaller rigs to the full extent yet), you only have to look at the price history of Armor Plates and Melted Capacitor Consoles to see what I mean. If anything, the introduction of XL rigs would pretty much restore the status quo that was in place BEFORE the rig size changes. So no, they would have to tweak absolutely nothing extra, it was good enough as it is used to be.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.09.18 21:55:00 -
[30]
Agreed. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |