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Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
~Haters gonna Hate~ |
Luis Graca
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
sometimes i wounder whats the right answer to that question CCP SUCKS |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, a lot of people in eve get off when they get kills. They will go off talking as much crap as they can because they got the most awesome kill.
The times of "GF" don't exist much anymore in eve. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1568
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
There are sociopaths who PVP but being a PVPer does not make you a sociopath.
If all sociopaths played this game instead of getting into politics or becoming cops the real world would be a better place.
|
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:There are sociopaths who PVP but being a PVPer does not make you a sociopath.
If all sociopaths played this game instead of getting into politics or becoming cops the real world would be a better place.
Lol, perhaps it would. EVE would become more interesting to be sure |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote: For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
It's an interesting question. But the trouble with it is you've used the term "PvP'ers". Nobody would agree with it in that form. |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Knus'lar wrote: For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
It's an interesting question. But the trouble with it is you've used the term "PvP'ers". Nobody would agree with it in that form.
Okay, then lets assume i mean high sec gankers, because thats what the threads are usually crying about anyways |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
834
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
People who shoot at me are all filthy deviant sociopaths who should be institutionalised.
Now, when I shoot people, it's just fun, and just a game.
gfgfgfgfgfo7o7o7 |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
410
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African
*Hair done by LGÇÖOr+¬al, because I'm worth it. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1473
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Tell me you don't secretly think that hisec carebears are balanced and responsible people in real life? |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
794
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Accusing strangers of moral or psychological deviancy based on behavior in a video game only shows your own shortcomings to the world. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
If all PvPers were sociopaths, Hulkageddon would have never happened. Sociopaths are horrible at forming stable, long term relationships, which is exactly what the largest PvP groups are. It's just as likely that a high-sec miner who comes on the forum to rage about how PvPers are evil bastards is a sociopath. They tend to blame others for their failures and are prone to snap at things the average person can cope with.
That said, I dislike attributing negative personality traits and behaviors to mental illness. People can be assholes or entitled jerks without being mentally ill.
although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
794
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Sociopaths are horrible at forming stable, long term relationships, By this criteria, its the solo miners who are the sociopaths
Might want to take some of those threats to kill you next fanfest more seriously, guys Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
643
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reactions I've gotten from other pvpers/gankers/"griefers" after killing/getting killed by them:
- "gf" - "better watch your back lol" - emoticons - compliments - smacktalk with or without light cussing - promises of petitions due to alleged desyncs/disconnects - rarely, genuine dislike for me as a player, but limited to the scope of the game
Reactions I've gotten from carebears after killing them:
- extreme cussing - promises of petitions due to my apparent use of hacks and exploits - accusations of real-life terrorism - threats of lawsuit/police action - real-life threats to harm me (mostly done by people who also claimed to be in the armed forces or in possession of weapons) - real-life threats to sexually-assault me - real-life threats to harm my wife/significant other (I am unmarried) - real-life threats to harm my children (I have no kids) - real-life threats to sexually-assault my wife/significant other - real-life threats to sexually-assault my children (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1571
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection.
Oh dear.
DO NOT joke like that. It's bad enough being known to be a firearms instructor, worse actually having to work in an office.
People like to ninny and say they feel threatened. It's kind of like meta-gaming in an MMO. Sure they can't get your job or get promoted over you or something, but if they can say they "feel threatened" and get you hauled off by the cops, they will. Again I prefer if people who do stuff like that would play this game. That sort would come up to a belt in a Wreathe and one miner and see a Hulk and hit the "report bot" button just out of jealousy.
People would joke and ask me if I would bring a gun to work to help straighten out management and I would say "STFU that crap gives cops a chance to add to their own gun collections:"
Don't joke about that stuff. Eventually you will be dealing with someone who hears the word "gun" and they grow a 500 lb vagina and start peeing themselves and then you might find yourself in trouble. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
344
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection.
We have a winner
Tal |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1047
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
You have a link where someone who was ganked (NPC alt's don't count) saying flat out that anyone who ganks or does PvP is a sociopath?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Gealbhan
Used Shuttle Sales Representative
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Well, a lot of people in eve get off when they get kills. They will go off talking as much crap as they can because they got the most awesome kill.
The times of "GF" don't exist much anymore in eve.
Um... they never did... |
Diablo Ex
Pro Synergy ARK.
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animal are... PRO SYNERGY - We salvage and process the loot, and pay YOU for it. Proven methodology, weekly payout, great attitude. - join game channel "Pro Synergy" for details. http://sites.google.com/site/prospersynergy/ |
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Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:
You have a link where someone who was ganked (NPC alt's don't count) saying flat out that anyone who ganks or does PvP is a sociopath?
I can't tell if he was ganked or is an alt, but from here.
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether?
although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
164
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Pixels dont cry, if you PvP for the 'tears' you have serious RL issues.
|
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1050
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Even though he does have a point, he is in an NPC corp. So it doesn't count.
I do find Kimmi Chan's post amusing because he groups ALL high sec residents as wanting high sec to be 100% safe. Which of course is a flat out lie. There has only be a very tiny amount (like 7 last I counted and not in NPC corps) posts where they specifically said they wanted high sec to be 100% safe. This game has over 300,000 subscribers. Do you honestly think 7 people represent all of high sec?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
294
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? Pixels dont cry, if you PvP for the 'tears' you have serious RL issues. What if I just pvp because I know they want to pvp? Or what if I want to make their day crap? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
309
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
The term sociopath has become quite popular for those that take the game a bit too seriously. Perhaps they should learn the worth catharsis. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
164
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Ten Bulls wrote: Pixels dont cry, if you PvP for the 'tears' you have serious RL issues.
What if I just pvp because I know they want to pvp? Or what if I want to make their day crap?
If you have ingame reason to PvP then your fine, for example if you PvP to defend territory, or to demonstrate your a better pilot, or for a challenge, whatever, as long as its about ingame issues.
If your doing it to make the player suffer in RL, and you dont know them in RL, then thatGÇÖs obviously a sign of a sociopath and/or narcissistic personality IMO (but im not a shrink).
|
pussnheels
399
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
if you are talking about the majority of players who engage in actual pvp as their major profesion in EVE the answer is no If you talking about that small minority with a instant gratification complex ,that is convinced that this game should be turned into a arcade MMO and who think that gianking unarmed ships jwith th sole purpose of griefing is PVP , the I MUST WIN generation like i call them , then yes you are right I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1356
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.
This might be accurate if there were real world consequences for blowing up someone's ship. You don't know |
Aramatheia
European Nuthouse
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
pvper's are evil child bashing aberrant freaks
miners/any high sec dwellers are plagues, burdens diseases
which one is correct? or are they both done to death, dead ended shallow minded "insults" hurled back and forth on an internet forum |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
74
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:This might be accurate if there were real world consequences for blowing up someone's ship. Edit: Also, the term sociopath applies to someone who suffers from a one (or more) of a conditions from a large collection of semi-related psychological issues, most of which are highly, highly debatable as to whether they are a condition or an amalgamation of various unrelated symptoms. IE: With the "right" doctor, anyone could be considered a sociopath, hence why psychology/psychiatry are still considered in a very, very early stage. For a fairly brief summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SociopathOne very core part of it, though, is basically being unable to relate to society. Anti-social. A group, by definition, is a social construct. Lookin at you, solo miners.
He isn't talking about consequences of actions, he is talking about people's behaviors in an "anonymous" world in how it actually is showing your true nature. |
|
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
164
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Degren wrote: One very core part of it, though, is basically being unable to relate to society. Anti-social. A group, by definition, is a social construct.
Lookin at you, solo miners.
Hmm, so your sayin its the solo miners that are mining the minerals that almost every item in eve is constructed from are the ones that are unable to relate to EVE society. That the players that shoot those defenseless mining ships are actually helping EVE as a group by making those naughty miners stop with their selfish activities...
I cant possibly think think of any flaws in that argument, no sir no flaws in that logic, we just get rid of the selfish primary producers and the rest of society will be just fine. Or your making excuses to justify your previous beliefs, one or the other.
|
hedge betts Shiyurida
State War Academy Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Accusing strangers of moral or psychological deviancy based on behavior in a video game only shows your own shortcomings to the world. downer
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
411
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection. Oh dear. DO NOT joke like that. It's bad enough being known to be a firearms instructor, worse actually having to work in an office. People like to ninny and say they feel threatened. It's kind of like meta-gaming in an MMO. Sure they can't get your job or get promoted over you or something, but if they can say they "feel threatened" and get you hauled off by the cops, they will. Again I prefer if people who do stuff like that would play this game. That sort would come up to a belt in a Wreathe and one miner and see a Hulk and hit the "report bot" button just out of jealousy. People would joke and ask me if I would bring a gun to work to help straighten out management and I would say "STFU that crap gives cops a chance to add to their own gun collections:" Don't joke about that stuff. Eventually you will be dealing with someone who hears the word "gun" and they grow a 500 lb vagina and start peeing themselves and then you might find yourself in trouble.
haha yeah...
They actually said they would love to see me loose control since I never do.
But if people around me did not know my personality or how I behave then I might have had an issue with what you describe. Only make jokes like that and push boundries if you know people can take it. It takes a small slip in misjudgement of others threshold to recieve an invitation from HR to join them for Coffee. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African
*Hair done by LGÇÖOr+¬al, because I'm worth it. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1522
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
I seriously consider people that scream "u mad" and ignore everything the other man says as sociopaths, yes. They simply ignore every actual feeling one has and project only their own **** onto the other.
People that are so desperately in need of "SchadenFreude", that they have no idea about what's actually going on/said by the other man ... definitely have issues with themselves.
And for the "it's just roleplaying"-crowd, i have to say that NOBODY can untie any of his behaviour from his inner workings / mental state / emotional situation.
The last idiot i've blocked said he "raped" me and was proud about his mate using a disruptor and himself using a neut, while the faction police killed me. And then they claimed awesomeness and me being mad, although they haven't done anything except killwhoring. Acting like literally 12 year old kids that try to find a spot in their life, because they haven't figured out yet how to be actually proud of themselves.
I sure hope i don't run out of blocking-slots too soon. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
...
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection. Oh dear. DO NOT joke like that. It's bad enough being known to be a firearms instructor, worse actually having to work in an office. ... People would joke and ask me if I would bring a gun to work to help straighten out management and I would say "STFU that crap gives cops a chance to add to their own gun collections:" Don't joke about that stuff. Eventually you will be dealing with someone who hears the word "gun" and they grow a 500 lb vagina and start peeing themselves and then you might find yourself in trouble.
No need to overthink it. Where I'm from, you make joke/threats like that and magical things start to happen. Things like your wheel-nuts becoming loosened.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
A sociopath isn't able to build long term relationships and I see many lonely miners in the belts. |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
These things go through fashions. At the moment it's "You ganked my ship, you must be a sociopath."
Before that it was "You ganked my ship, you must have been abused as a child"
Before that it was "You ganked my ship, you must be an obese basement dweller"
Before that it was "You ganked my ship, you must be a teenage kid"
Before that, I wasn't playing EVE, but no doubt there was an equally plausible and evidence-based reason for you ganking my ship. Possibly because you were a hacker or maybe a communist vampire.
I wonder if it will ever be "You ganked my ship, you must have outplayed me in this encounter. Maybe next time I'll do the same to you"...?
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 09:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
This comment usually comes from buthurt players that don't understand what EvE Online is. It's simply the result of their two-digit IQ at work.
It's like playing Poker and then calling someone "sociopath" because they took your money. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 09:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Quote:This might be accurate if there were real world consequences for blowing up someone's ship. He isn't talking about consequences of actions, he is talking about people's behaviors in an "anonymous" world in how it actually is showing your true nature.
He was actually talking about people's actions when consequences are removed or diminished shows the strength of their moral character. This is true other than the fact that this is a computer game. Killing someone in a game or stealing in a game doesn't really have the same kind of effect on the victim/s as it does in real life, which is where the comparison doesn't really work.
Destiny Corrupted wrote: - to a small/moderate degree, all of the above, but more often than not, mostly from the following list:
- extreme cussing - promises of petitions due to my apparent use of hacks and exploits - accusations of real-life terrorism - threats of lawsuit/police action - real-life threats to harm me (mostly done by people who also claimed to be in the armed forces or in possession of weapons) - real-life threats to sexually-assault me - real-life threats to harm my wife/significant other (I am unmarried) - real-life threats to harm my children (I have no kids) - real-life threats to sexually-assault my wife/significant other - real-life threats to sexually-assault my children
(I really wish I didn't have to put that last one on there, but I don't want to sugar-coat the issue either; not only has it happened, it's happened more than once.)
It's amazing how many people can go absolutely ape **** over something like a game and then in the same breath accuse you of mental instability. A lot of people gank simply because of the hilarity of the reactions they get. |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
413
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
To go back on topic...
With regards to what people think Griefers/pvpers are compared to Carebears.
I have more abuse from Carebears than Griefers/pvpers. I see destiny has put it in list nicely and I can tell that is exactly how it is.
I get more threats from Carebears when they loose ships than I do from other PVP'ers.
So to me it appears the really calm and good people are PVP'ers to do something they can;t do in RL... like blow up spaceships. Carebears are the sociopaths. Very agressive in RL, do something calming ingame until there world explodes into threats of retribution. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African
*Hair done by LGÇÖOr+¬al, because I'm worth it. |
|
Spy 21
Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
I try not to let things bother me.
But, I do think the reason underneath a good bit of the rage and name calling from the gankee community might very well be based in jealousy.
Who doesn't want to be the cool kid who runs around killing folks randomly without seeming to care about consequence or reputation... who has the skill to pull off such ganks, the balls to actually pvp, who does not seem at all constrained by societies norms... those norms which so hinder themselves.
S "The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7707
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nah. The argument doesn't bother me.
What bothers me is the hypocrisy of the people saying it (considering that they almost universally raise every flag on the list of ASPD characteristics, in particular the one about not adhering to rules and norms).
Then again, that level of self-reflection is pretty much out of the question for them so it's to be expected, I suppose. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Son, the world is ruled by sociopaths,....know what? Most of them were even elected by their people.
To topic: I think a lot of people do actually take this and other Games FAR to serious.
I can tell you an anecdote: Some years ago, a "friend" who was playing WoW on a PvP server by that time thought about trying out another faction on a role play server. Leaving the first starter area heading for the capital he stumbled across a group of Nightelves and Humans who were just busy with "erotic role play" in front of stormwind. I mean...thats just wrong...
Others try to substitute their lack of real life contacts online, and those guys really take things serious ingame.
I personally love the hatered comments we often get in local when we pop all this little pixel-dreams...for me it is all about the fun after a hard day or week of work. In fact most pvp pilots I know have quite time consuming real life jobs, families and social relations and log in for a few hours a week to...well, just blow up other peoples stuff. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
321
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:
You have a link where someone who was ganked (NPC alt's don't count) saying flat out that anyone who ganks or does PvP is a sociopath?
I can't tell if he was ganked or is an alt, but from here. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether? Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberatly provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. And I maintaine that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.
The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.
I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, sociopaths in real life, quite ironic. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
530
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
I don't know about anyone else, but I act the same in real life. Say someone cuts me off on the highway. I shoot out their tires, ram into the rear of their vehicle, get out, fling open their door and throw them over the divider and then I blow up what's left of the car.
Afterward, I steal everything I can from the owner of the destroyed vehicle, then I leave him/her naked on the side of the highway.
|
nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
no for the simple fact if you did anything like alot of people do in eve you'd get your butt stomped if you did **** this in the real world. eve you can be at jerk off you wished you could be for the fact its online and 99% of the people in eve dont care its the "i dont know you int the real world so ill f you in the butt untill you stop playing." |
nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:I try not to let things bother me.
But, I do think the reason underneath a good bit of the rage and name calling from the gankee community might very well be based in jealousy.
Who doesn't want to be the cool kid who runs around killing folks randomly without seeming to care about consequence or reputation... who has the skill to pull off such ganks, the balls to actually pvp, who does not seem at all constrained by societies norms... those norms which so hinder themselves.
S
Ganking a help less mining ship 1 dont take skill. 2 ganker dont have balls they just have wallets that let them gank. 3.Ganks there not sociopath's they just think there big stuff when there not. just sad sacks that think there big pvpers "look i have 4 bil in hulk kills" with what 20 mil lose in a destoryer my my want a skilled pvper.
i have gank 3 mining ships in the 4 and half years in eve i was really bored but in the end what the fun in ganking a ship that really cant fight back and there no honor in it eather "honor" is something lacking in most eve players i see btw.
|
Geoscape
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Until recently i thought that true carebears were rare in eve online. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
799
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.
The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.
I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic. Say we are playing poker, and the game has run to high stakes. When I take you for $10000 dollars, does that or does that not ruin your day? And if it does, and I not allowed to enjoy the fact that I won?
At worst, gankers who gloat about it are bad sportsmen, but it is also very poor sportsmanship to sry about loosing. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:44:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.
The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.
I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic. Say we are playing poker, and the game has run to high stakes. When I take you for $10000 dollars, does that or does that not ruin your day? And if it does, and I not allowed to enjoy the fact that I won? At worst, gankers who gloat about it are bad sportsmen, but it is also very poor sportsmanship to sry about loosing.
But see, EVE is real, therefore... |
|
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
272
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
I was watching a show the other day about sociopaths. Apparently they tend to wind up in CEO positions. So before you start looking at your trigger happy mates around you, look up the ladder to your corp and alliance leaders.
That's right. One day they're going to show up at your house wearing a suit and a smile. They're going to shake your hand and then stab you repeatedly while firmly stating 'Good job on the Dow Corning contract Ted, great work!' You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
pussnheels
401
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
You know this is really getting out of hand this whole debate . The huge majority of EVE players are either PVP oriented or industrial oriented players and usually go along well , with the ocasional war , gank etc like it has been for ...always in EVE But there are these 2 small minorities , the true hardcore carebears and the hardcore griefers everybody seems to talk about
Seems like people can"t see the difference any more , either you are a hardcore carebear or a hardcore griefer
and the goons pouring even more fuel over the fire doesn't really help either I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
413
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
While Im sure it doesn't stand for everyone, there are a few that are really sociopaths. Never encountered any in Eve but in another game I have, was even on vent with him when he had a total meltdown (insane jumble of rl insults and threats of finding another person irl to kill him). It was quite disturbing because a few months prior to this a Russian in the same game had actually beaten someone to death.
http://kotaku.com/345969/russian-man-killed-over-lineage-ii-clan-grudge This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Millur
Blue Beret UFO Retrieval Team
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately Internet forum is always spammed with trolls and rage in all forms, I for one never take them serious and get my lols and move on. General section in particular are the worst so just ignore this place and stick to the more specific sections of your interest for the best nuggets of posts and then game on. You cant arrange them by *****... |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Well, if a fat real life ******, discarded by his parents and regularly beaten by his school mates uses his time in the bunk to kill pixels instead of torturing kittens, I guess that is called improvement.
If moral ambiguous person found out that ganking hulks is profitable business in eve, I wouldn't blame him for following that money trail.
If a real as..ole is willing to show his true colors, and thereby gives you an opponent that you can leave bleeding on the street without feeling any remorse, I guess that gives the game some great opponents, and fun to play.
What I really don't like is the attitude of the game designers, doing such a poor job in creating a functioning sand box with a reasonable risk / reward ratio, and even take pride in their failures, as shown in the dev blog about burn jita.
|
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:While Im sure it doesn't stand for everyone, there are a few that are really sociopaths. Never encountered any in Eve but in another game I have, was even on vent with him when he had a total meltdown (insane jumble of rl insults and threats of finding another person irl to kill him). It was quite disturbing because a few months prior to this a Russian in the same game had actually beaten someone to death. http://kotaku.com/345969/russian-man-killed-over-lineage-ii-clan-grudge
Do you even know the meaning of the term "sociopath"? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
309
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mussaschi wrote:Well, if a fat real life ******, discarded by his parents and regularly beaten by his school mates uses his time in the bunk to kill pixels instead of torturing kittens, I guess that is called improvement.
If moral ambiguous person found out that ganking hulks is profitable business in eve, I wouldn't blame him for following that money trail.
If a real as..ole is willing to show his true colors, and thereby gives you an opponent that you can leave bleeding on the street without feeling any remorse, I guess that gives the game some great opponents, and fun to play.
What I really don't like is the attitude of the game designers, doing such a poor job in creating a functioning sand box with a reasonable risk / reward ratio, and even take pride in their failures, as shown in the dev blog about burn jita.
And here we have a prime example, throwing generalisations around like confetti at a wedding and adopting a (fake) moral superiority by convincing themselves that anyone who shoots a hulk or industrial ship is a backward neckbeard with emotional difficulties.
It's actually attitudes like this being waved around that has made so many want to gank hulks in the first place and I understand the sentiment so well. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:[Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.
The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.
I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic. If you refuse to accept that 'it's just a game' then it is you that has the problem. |
Winters Chill
Homeworld Republic United Homeworlds
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
The people who say that are the kind of people that have temper tantrums when they play monopoly with their family.
Read "emotionally volatile". |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
The whole thing is dumb. The voices in my head clearly tell me I'm a psychopath |
|
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote: It's actually attitudes like this being waved around that has made so many want to gank hulks in the first place and I understand the sentiment so well.
What attitude? Let's face it the reason you want to gank Hulks is for the giggles and to get points in your peer group. It's nothing to do with what The Other is doing in his Hulk. I mean why would you care one little bit what some other guy half way across the game galaxy is doing in his little barge? Just admit it and we can move along and start talking about something more interesting, because these Hulk/Mining threads are getting really boring. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
It's an interesting question. I do believe that people WOULD act like they do in games in real life, provided their actions had the same consequences in real life as in video games.
Someone who would set a village of innocent peasants on fire and laugh as they run around screaming probably has a screw loose someplace. Doesn't necessarily mean he'd go on a murdering rampage, but I'd say he definitely has some personality traits that are bothersome at best.
Having said that, I have no problem when people fight over territory in game, for example. I do have a problem with people who do it for "lols" or just to grief someone. I especially have a problem with people who do it to "collect tears" and stuff like that. Don't tell me it's normal, to do something with a sole purpose of making someone cry and deriving sufficient joy from their misery to make an in-game lifestyle out of it. And I have absolutely no respect for suicide gankers who only go after miners and missioners. They're just spineless scum in-game, and probably not much better in real life.
My friends who are gamers, and myself, we pretty much act in a game the way we act in real life. Even in games like Battlefield 3 where you really can't play the game without actively shooting someone. But even so, the guy who really doesn't like violence plays a medic or support - reviving people, supplying them with ammo and laying down suppressive fire which helps even if he doesn't actually kill anyone with it. It's just who we are. None of us can just flip a switch and become a total douchebag and call it roleplaying, we just don't work this way (that I know of). If you are a douche in game, odds are deep down there's something douchy about you in real life as well.
And I guess that's the main difference between in-game and in-life behaviour. In life you have very real, very tangible consequences for being a dork, and they're usually permanent. In-game, you can just train up a trial character, use it to gank miners, and delete him when security drops too low, resulting in zero consequences in a game that trumpets it is all about choice and consequence.
|
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
624
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
You sign on to play a no-holds-barred pvp game where you can lose everything you spent years building in one fiery flash, and no one is going to magically give it back to you or even ******* care for that matter.
It makes everything you do in this game that much more meaningful and exciting. Some people who knowingly sign up to this game under these rules seeking that gameplay find out they can't, in fact, handle that loss when it does happen, and they get very upset over losing in this game. Is playing the game according to the rules mean or sociopathic? No.
Is making fun of those people "mean"? Absolutely. Is it "sociopathic"? No.
As someone else wisely put it, you don't need a personality disorder, which are pretty controversial even in the real world, to be a **** in a video game. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
346
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote: As someone else wisely put it, you don't need a personality disorder, which are pretty controversial even in the real world, to be a **** in a video game.
Just a mouse and a keyboard
Tal
|
Jalabaster
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
Causing virtual harm to a person is much different than causing real harm to a person. In much the same way that virtual consequences differ from real consequences. I think it is fair to say that most of the people ganking and performing various unsavory space acts would in fact NOT act the same way in real life if things were anonymous.
Even if anonymity were obtained in the real world, it does not shield one from real life emotions like guilt, regret, and sorrow. For example, take service men and women around the world who are put in positions where they must kill a human in defense of themselves or their country. They have done nothing illegal in the eyes of the law, and the killing has been done about as anonymously as any killing can be done. And yet they still feel strong negative emotions concerning their actions.
"when a ship is blown up, the pilot usually winds up replacing it. This drives the economy, steadies inflation, and gives industrialists a reason to manufacture. In contrast, creating isk while never losing any items has the unfortunate reverse effect on the market, plus it isn't really any fun." Jala |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
346
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jalabaster wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it. Causing virtual harm to a person is much different than causing real harm to a person. In much the same way that virtual consequences differ from real consequences. I think it is fair to say that most of the people ganking and performing various unsavory space acts would in fact NOT act the same way in real life if things were anonymous. Even if anonymity were obtained in the real world, it does not shield one from real life emotions like guilt, regret, and sorrow. For example, take service men and women around the world who are put in positions where they must kill a human in defense of themselves or their country. They have done nothing illegal in the eyes of the law, and the killing has been done about as anonymously as any killing can be done. And yet they still feel strong negative emotions concerning their actions.
You don't mention the scum that go onto, for example, RIP Facebook pages and troll behind the anonymity of the web, they would never do it to ppls faces and they have no sense of guilt or empathy.
I am nor comparing anyone in Eve to the above, by the way.
Tal |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:23:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jalabaster wrote:Causing virtual harm to a person is much different than causing real harm to a person. In much the same way that virtual consequences differ from real consequences. I think it is fair to say that most of the people ganking and performing various unsavory space acts would in fact NOT act the same way in real life if things were anonymous.
Even if anonymity were obtained in the real world, it does not shield one from real life emotions like guilt, regret, and sorrow. For example, take service men and women around the world who are put in positions where they must kill a human in defense of themselves or their country. They have done nothing illegal in the eyes of the law, and the killing has been done about as anonymously as any killing can be done. And yet they still feel strong negative emotions concerning their actions.
Good points. But you mention guilt, regret and sorrow if you hurt someone in real life. Some of us, or dare I say it, most of us (but perhaps not in this game) experience all of those when they do something questionable in the game as well! Why wouldn't you? When you do something unethical, or intentionally harmful, how can you not feel remorse, when you KNOW it is affecting a real living breathing person somewhere out there? OK, in a single player game I can sort of let that slide, but not an MMO. Like stealing from your corpmates, people who trusted you, protected you and fought alongside you. Don't tell me a person shouldn't feel guild for such a betrayal of trust just because it's a game.
The point about servicemen and guilt, despite just following orders is another good one. That's what I consider a normal human response. However, you must also admit that the service also attracts some real nutjobs - people who enjoy killing for the sake of killing. There's plenty of evidence showing soldiers doing some pretty fracking horrific things to civilians, or "suspected militants", which is just a phrase used to describe someone you don't like the looks of and doesn't require a shred of proof to support what is otherwise just a summary execution. There's a lot of flexibility there, and precious little accountability unless you're dumb enough to film it and post it on Youtube.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7709
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Don't tell me a person shouldn't feel guild for such a betrayal of trust just because it's a game. They shouldn't because it's just a game, and those are legal moves within that game. The other players knew it and accepted it.
You're arguing that people should feel guilty when feinting right and then passing left in football. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1296
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:28:00 -
[69] - Quote
If you need to be a sociopath to gank, then I would like to see the psychological profile of someone who plays a game, willingly taking up a repetitive task that pays the least of all professions and then cries when someone tries to stop them doing it.
Of course, IF. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Generals4
816
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Well what that did you expect from people who constantly get called "pubbies" by "pvp'ers". I find the mutual insulting rather amusing, just shows some people on both sides still need to grow up a bit :) -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
|
Generals4
816
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Don't tell me a person shouldn't feel guild for such a betrayal of trust just because it's a game. They shouldn't because it's just a game, and those are legal moves within that game. The other players knew it and accepted it. You're arguing that people should feel guilty when feinting right and then passing left in football.
Since when do opposing teams in a football match actually trust each other? (You really shouldn't try to use RL analogies unless you are 100% sure they stick 100%)
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
237
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
It's actually probably quite a complex issue.
Compare and contrast. Back at the beginning of the 20th century, there was the idea that sexual liberation would be good, on the basis of a "hydraulic" metaphor that pent-up sexual energy needs an outlet, and once discharged, a person's mind is at peace.
It actually turns out that the more sex you have, the more you want.
So, for this morality and games business, there is a genuine question here: of course, as an intelligent human being, one understands perfectly well the difference between a game and real life. However, some of the sub-processes that go in the brain are pretty dumb, they can't discriminate between real life and a game. And so far as they are concerned, the habits you are building up are your habits, not some game persona's.
So what if you are actually desensitizing yourself gradually by playing a game like EVE? What if at some point in the future you find yourself being callous in real life, in a way that would shock you now, only you're not shocked and think your callousness is ok?
I'm not saying yea or nay either way, but it is a deep question.
Consider the smash hit at E3, this demo from Ubisoft.
One's first thought is "WOW!!!!" right? It truly is jaw-dropping.
But, let's be honest, don't you find yourself having a bit of a moral twinge watching this demo too? Check that bit with the dude pulling the distraught father out of the car - interesting that the character has a sense of morality to get the distraught father out of harm's way. But is that because he's aware that he's the cause of all the chaos, and in fact the direct cause of that little girl's death, and is having a moral twinge himself?
The more "realistic" these games become, the more real they seem to those stupid sub-routines in the brain. When we were slaughtering pixellated ***** by the truckload in Wolfenstein, the demarcation between game and reality was really clear and obvious. But with something like Watch Dogs, how clear and obvious is the distinction?
EVE is obviously somewhere inbetween - blowing up pixel spaceships, ok, but when you look at some of the scamming going on where they depend on building up pseudo-friendships and gaining someone's trust, the line isn't so easy to distinguish. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
I don't think ganking or whatever means you are a sociopath.
I do however believe people's true personalities come out in anonymous situations, such as in an online game.
It's kind of like the guy who doesn't give his seat on the bus to a pregnant or elderly person if he's alone, but if his friends or family are with him quickly jumps up and offers the seat. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
293
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
I do not want to be one of the cool kids who runs around killing things randomly. Yes, I think people's behavior in the game reflects the way they behave in real life. That does not mean I think people do exactly in real life what they do in the game. Has nothing to do with PVP, or ganking, for that matter.
You can gank in this game without being a bully; but getting on the forum to crow about it adds a creepy layer to the whole thing. Formulating a belief system about the evil of miners in Eve adds yet another layer. This is the creepy behavior, not the PVP or the ganking.
Gankers freely admit that the reason they like shooting mining ships is to ruin somebody's day. Does that sound like game behavior or real-life behavior to you?
And, frankly, thinking you're the "cool kid" because you're a ganker` and that people are jealous of you is probably a reflection of who you are in real life. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7710
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Since when do opposing teams in a football match actually trust each other? If they're clever, they don't. Just like with the other players in EVE.
GǪand that's before even going into how that poor tricked footballer will suffer real-life consequences whereas the tricked EVE player will not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
578
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
In chess I really enjoy the challenge of forking a queen if the opponent isn't paying attention. Similarly I like to wardec larger corporations in EVE to see if they are paying enough attention to stop me. Does this make me a sociopath?
How about thwacking miners with Darwin's Hammer, because they refuse to evolve. I'm a huge fan of Hulkageddon and the mayhem and chaos it is causing in EVE's Whoville. Does this make me a sociopath?
Or perhaps when I like to play a MMO as a singleplayer, only engaging in forms of player interaction when it suits me, not caring or understanding the damage this does to the sandbox, while insulting, threatening, and dehumanizing anyone that interferes. Does this make me a sociopath? Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Sarina Berghil
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Quote:Does the 'PvPers are Sociopaths' argument bother anyone else?
No because I almost never see the argument. I do get bothered by strawman arguments though. In my experience the argument is more common among gamers that don't play EvE who got the wrong impression of the game.
I don't really know what carebears are in an Eve context, because Eve is a PvP game and carebears play other games. But the most common response I see when killing a mining ship, industrual ship or PvE ship is no response. Which is usually how I respond as well, because I'm busy getting my pod to safety in those cases. The second most common response is either 'gf' or the universal 'because of lag, bugs, the dog ate my homework'.
In the few cases where targets respond with anger, that seems to me to be a perfectly acceptable and normal way to react to an unexpected loss.
There is however a small segment of mostly hi-sec PvP'ers/gankers who seem to be driven mostly by schadenfreude, and some hi-sec dwellers get the wrong impression of PvP because of those. I think thats a shame because it drives people away from better communities and the game in general. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:And, frankly, thinking you're the "cool kid" because you're a ganker` and that people are jealous of you is probably a reflection of who you are in real life. So, thinking that you are being persecuted by a sociopath and that there is a CCP/Goon conspiracy to drive you from the game is also a reflection of who you are in real life? |
RAP ACTION HERO
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
hey if it empowers the victims and helps them cope n all that |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sarina Berghil wrote:There is however a small segment of mostly hi-sec PvP'ers/gankers who seem to be driven mostly by schadenfreude, and some hi-sec dwellers get the wrong impression of PvP because of those. I think thats a shame because it drives people away from better communities and the game in general. Smacktalk and mocking your opponent is not exclusive to Eve and is a part of many competetive online games. |
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Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
315
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:10:00 -
[81] - Quote
I would not call all PvPer sociopaths, but some people who suicide gank to "collect tears", yes their behavior borderlines on sociopathy, it also makes them very sad human beings who should seek out professional counsel.
....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:13:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sarina Berghil wrote:There is however a small segment of mostly hi-sec PvP'ers/gankers who seem to be driven mostly by schadenfreude, ...
There's a rather large group that at least portrays themselves to be so motivated.
|
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:16:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote: How about thwacking miners with Darwin's Hammer, because they refuse to evolve. I'm a huge fan of Hulkageddon and the mayhem and chaos it is causing in EVE's Whoville. Does this make me a sociopath?
The problem with using Darwin's Hammer is you don't know what you're selecting for, only what you're selecting against. For example, CONCORD didn't used to exist in Eve near the very beginning. Darwin's Hammer forced its introduction. And now you rail against the supposed "safety" of High Sec? It's safer because Darwin's Hammer selects thoughts in CCP Developer and Accountant heads, not because it changes the mining population significantly.
|
Otebski
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:17:00 -
[84] - Quote
It never ceases to amaze me why people who apparently dont want to get shot play PvP games. There are dozens of titles on the market which limit PvP to at least consensual activity. EVE is not such a game. It's advertised as harsh and unforgiving. Calling people sociopaths on grounds of engaging in activity that makes the core of the game is just plain ret...... It's like playing COD and whining that people shoot you when all you want to do is collect ammo. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
If you choose to behave a certain way the location does not change the behavior, virtual or real world, how many of these behavior traits do you see in your behavior? I don't find most griefers to be Glib or Charming, Manipulative and Coning, Check.; Gradiose sense of self, Check.; Pathological Lying, well that varies; Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt, Check; Shallow Emotions, varies; Incapacity for Love, unobserved; Need for Stimulation, Check; Callousness/Lack of Empathy, Check; Poor Behavior Control/ Impulsive nature, Check; Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency, unobserved but wouldn't surprise me; Irresponsibility/Unreliability, Check; Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity, unobserved; Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle, Check; Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility, Check. I'd say griefers hit on 9 out of 15 character traits of a sociopath with some of the none hits being gray areas.
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
Pathological Lying Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, **** and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
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Sarina Berghil
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Sarina Berghil wrote:There is however a small segment of mostly hi-sec PvP'ers/gankers who seem to be driven mostly by schadenfreude, and some hi-sec dwellers get the wrong impression of PvP because of those. I think thats a shame because it drives people away from better communities and the game in general. Smacktalk and mocking your opponent is not exclusive to Eve and is a part of many competetive online games.
A few games, and I personally stay clear of those.
There is a distinction between friendly mocking/rivalry and the intent to cause emotional grief.
|
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:26:00 -
[87] - Quote
Otebski wrote:It's like playing COD and whining that people shoot you when all you want to do is collect ammo.
Naaaa, it's nothing like that at all. COD is pure FPS isn't it. Like TF 2. There are little social rules even in these games you know, although COD is far worse for people paying attention to them than TF 2 is because TF 2 attracts an *average* older age crowd than COD does. Anyway the point is that in a game like TF 2 pretty much everyone agrees what constitutes anti-social behaviour and players can easily be kicked by admins when they engage in it. Even pubs are relatively well behaved.
When it comes to Eve things are different. It's *possible* to have different groups of people, or different areas of space where what constitutes anti-social or "immoral" behaviour is different. This is where the apparent clash in play-styles comes from. You are convinced you are right and The Other is convinced he is right. This is simply a cultural difference.
The only problem AFAIK is that on this occasion one "culture" has decided it doesn't like the other and is actively trying to grief it out of the game. And it is griefing especially as it generally involves recycled one week old alts, which btw are a bannable exploit, although difficult to petition for various reasons. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
310
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Virgil Travis wrote: It's actually attitudes like this being waved around that has made so many want to gank hulks in the first place and I understand the sentiment so well.
What attitude? Let's face it the reason you want to gank Hulks is for the giggles and to get points in your peer group. It's nothing to do with what The Other is doing in his Hulk. I mean why would you care one little bit what some other guy half way across the game galaxy is doing in his little barge? Just admit it and we can move along and start talking about something more interesting, because these Hulk/Mining threads are getting really boring.
The attitude where people join a game that is primarily based around conflict, competition and never being 100% safe anywhere and then complaining because they lost some space pixels to valid game play and in doing so throwing generalisations about like those in the post I quoted.
It's the fact that that one guy half way across the game galaxy in his little barge has the mindset that he shouldn't be affected by anyone or anything else in the game while he continues to be a part of the game by affecting the economy that is probably the basis for some of the reactions to miners and the like. They don't seem to understand that by logging in they can create ripples within the game, even by simply sitting in their little barge all day and then have the blinkered view that they shouldn't suffer any consequences and be left alone. I say no, if you want to be in EVE, you be prepared to be not left alone, get used to it or don't bother logging in. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote: The attitude where people join a game that is primarily based around conflict, competition and never being 100% safe anywhere and then complaining because they lost some space pixels to valid game play
Again, to be clear game-play is invalid if it's performed by recycled one week old alts. Dress it up anyway you like, but that's where most of the butt-hurt is coming from. So all other arguments are kind-of moot here. Behaviour that is petitionable and bannable is what we're mostly talking about. |
Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:31:00 -
[90] - Quote
People who get pleasure from causing other people misery are sociopaths. That's different than just wanting to PVP, defeart another player, or pad your killboard. There are some people in this game who do really get off on dominating and humiliating somebody else. Call it "collecting tears" or whatever you want. That's being a sociopath, not a game competitor. |
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Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
310
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:37:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Virgil Travis wrote: The attitude where people join a game that is primarily based around conflict, competition and never being 100% safe anywhere and then complaining because they lost some space pixels to valid game play
Again, to be clear game-play is invalid if it's performed by recycled one week old alts. Dress it up anyway you like, but that's where most of the butt-hurt is coming from. So all other arguments are kind-of moot here. Behaviour that is petitionable and bannable is what we're mostly talking about.
Actually no it's not, I was talking about the attitude that you should be left alone which has nothing to do with what you're talking about at all, so my argument is not moot at all, it's just you trying to change it to suit yourself. I'm not talking about game mechanics at all so if you wish to discuss that fine, but I'm talking about that fact that some people feel they should be allowed to be completely separated from the rest of the game, which is utterly fallacious thinking. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
Jalabaster wrote:I think it is fair to say that most of the people ganking and performing various unsavory space acts would in fact NOT act the same way in real life if things were anonymous.
Anonymity gives people freedom from consequences of their actions
Checkout the "Stanford Prison Experiment" to see how savage we all are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkmQZjZSjk4
|
Potrondal Morrison
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:41:00 -
[93] - Quote
Do people who play Grand Theft Auto all go and steal cars, murder prostitutes and run people down in RL?
Do people who play Skyrim kill dragons in RL?
of coarse not.
If your called a sociopath for shooting people for fun in a game that involves shooting people for fun, then i say those who say this: a) are in the wrong game b) need to get a grip on reality c) need to realise that is just roleplaying interwebs spaceships game and not RL
THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!! |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Many things that happen in this game no longer make sense to me... well this game and many others. It's getting about the same everywhere, the whole wanting to ruin someones day thing, and other various actions. In a combat situation, in low/null sec or not against a war target, if I am the winner your pod is always free to go. Why? Killing your pod produces no income for me, in fact it slows it down. The guy is going to want to go buy new implants first typically, then buy his new ship, which he has less ISK for due to buying implants. Meaning less valuble loot for me. Miners in low sec? Pay me X amount and I'll leave you alone this time. Pay me Y amount and I'll leave you alone all week/month.Then I hold my end of the bargain. Much better than the scraps they generally drop. I fire on a newbie/badly fit pvp ship, I'll completely stop at hull and tell them to get lost also with a bit of advice as to how they can do better. Why? Later when they come back they just might have better built ship for me to loot.
As for the gankers being sociopaths well, probably not no. Lack of foresight? Logic? In my opinion yes. In some of them something isn't ticking right for sure, the "whole for the tears" thing, but same can be said for some so called "carebears". Then again I doubt many if any of us have ever lost a ship or pod with out getting even the slightest bit irritated. Especially at a inconvenient or unexpected time. During my time as miner if even half the ganking attempts were successful I'd probably go nuts in this game too. Lack of understanding and confusion are major triggers for emotional outbursts. Miners don't understand why you want to pick on them and not actually fight someone. Compounded with the frequency of these attacks it is easy to see why miners are in a outrage. |
Widow Cain
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
It is a symptom of games where PvE and PvP is tossed together. If your PvPers are farming your PvEers of course they will complain.
Most game designers are smart enough to segregate them, but CCP uses its PvE players as a commodity.
So it is what it is.
OMG You are sooo pixel macho... |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote: Actually no it's not, I was talking about the attitude that you should be left alone which has nothing to do with what you're talking about at all, so my argument is not moot at all, it's just you trying to change it to suit yourself. I'm not talking about game mechanics at all so if you wish to discuss that fine, but I'm talking about that fact that some people feel they should be allowed to be completely separated from the rest of the game, which is utterly fallacious thinking.
It is moot, because what are you arguing here? If another player wants to be left alone to engage in whatever activity in Sandbox Eve, where ganking his ass is one possible choice of many and by no means compulsory, who are you to say he's "playing it wrong"? It's really none of your business what he does with his time! Why do you even care?
I honestly have no idea where the fun is in doing something like that. If he's in field with 9 other Hulks all called ChingChongChang0x, then yes, I can see the point. But if it's OldeBob and his alt mining Velspar, what is the point? It's just, you know, being an ass for the hell of it.
I have a nephew who likes to be an ass just for the hell of it. He's a lovely lad out of game, but a complete twonk inside of it. I try to teach him a little self-respect and tell him that even though it's a lot of space pixels, there are other people, some of whom suffer from a surfeit of emotion, out there on the other end of the line. He pays no attention. I'm sure that he'll grow out of it.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, suicide ganking is fine if you aren't doing it with recycled alt. It's just called Gameplay. If you are doing it with recycled alt it's totally not fine and is an exploit. I would be interested to know what proportion of ganks are of the latter form. If it's a significant number CCP has a problem.
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Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:53:00 -
[97] - Quote
Sarina Berghil wrote:There is a distinction between friendly mocking/rivalry and the intent to cause emotional grief. Please give an example of what you consider to be smacktalk/mocking/rivalry and what you consider to be a statement designed to cause 'emotional grief'. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
347
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:55:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:Jalabaster wrote:I think it is fair to say that most of the people ganking and performing various unsavory space acts would in fact NOT act the same way in real life if things were anonymous.
Anonymity gives people freedom from consequences of their actions Checkout the "Stanford Prison Experiment" to see how savage we all are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkmQZjZSjk4
Welcome to the player driven sand box.
Tal
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Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
I have had my GF times lately still, mostly on WHs and HS wars, so at least from my point of view, pvp rocks, even tho i often lose. but i enjoy having the adrenaline rush. |
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:00:00 -
[100] - Quote
Widow Cain wrote:It is a symptom of games where PvE and PvP is tossed together. If your PvPers are farming your PvEers of course they will complain.
Most game designers are smart enough to segregate them, but CCP uses its PvE players as a commodity.
So it is what it is.
This is really the heart of the issue. The PvE-ers seclude themselves from the rest of the world of Eve, and yet they're still part of the same world. PvP-ers see them as fair game, and PvE-ers are obviously distressed because they don't want that.
To be honest, I'd have to side with the PvP-ers on this one, despite being generally more PvE myself. A world without player/player interaction like PvP would be completely flat and false, and the entire aspect of the player-driven world - to which PvP is absolutely vital - is what makes Eve Eve and not some other, generic MMORPG like Star Trek Online.
Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7712
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:If another player wants to be left alone to engage in whatever activity in Sandbox Eve, where ganking his ass is one possible choice of many and by no means compulsory, who are you to say he's "playing it wrong"? He's the right one to say so, because chances are that they are. Specifically, chances are that they are playing it wrong by assuming that GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ means that they will be allowed to succeed at whatever they attempt and that anything that interrupts their road to greatness is the result of some kind of bug or game-breaking exploit.
It's not the activity that is GÇ£playing it wrongGÇ¥ GÇö it's the assumptions and entitlement behind it, because those are, objectively, wrong. These incorrect assumptions will get the player killed. It's like assuming that, when you're playing minecraft, that bush-textured penismonster is nothing to be concerned with because, hey, it's a sandbox. This assumption is wrong, and playing the game without concerning yourself with means to protect you pretty house from creepers is to play the game wrong (well, unless you're playing EVE and minecraft as suicide or rebuild-for-the-fortyeleventh-time-simulators, but then you get the exact outcome you wanted so no-one will complain anyway).
If they made the right assumptions instead, they'd probably not get killed (or at least be far safer and present a much more tricky target). They can engage in the exact same activity without the same, wrong, assumptions and without the false sense of entitlement and as a direct result be far more successful and prosperous for it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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ArmyOfMe
Omniscient Order
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:06:00 -
[102] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Reactions I've gotten from other pvpers/gankers/"griefers" after killing/getting killed by them:
- no reaction - "gf" - "better watch your back lol" - emoticons - compliments - smacktalk with or without light cussing - promises of petitions due to alleged desyncs/disconnects - rarely, genuine dislike for me as a player, but limited to the scope of the game
Reactions I've gotten from carebears after killing them:
- to a small/moderate degree, all of the above, but more often than not, mostly from the following list:
- extreme cussing - promises of petitions due to my apparent use of hacks and exploits - accusations of real-life terrorism - threats of lawsuit/police action - real-life threats to harm me (mostly done by people who also claimed to be in the armed forces or in possession of weapons) - real-life threats to sexually-assault me - real-life threats to harm my wife/significant other (I am unmarried) - real-life threats to harm my children (I have no kids) - real-life threats to sexually-assault my wife/significant other - real-life threats to sexually-assault my children
(I really wish I didn't have to put that last one on there, but I don't want to sugar-coat the issue either; not only has it happened, it's happened more than once.) I think the only ever times i get somewhat annoyed at getting killed are the times when im in a fair fight (1vs1 etc) and they warp in 10x more guys, and then says gf in local, cause to me thats not what id call a good fight anymore. But i guess im just a bitter old vet remembering the days when solo roaming in battleships etc was possible (and no, for those of you that think so, solo roaming does not mean you + your alt in a logi or falcon)
ArmyOfMe > i swear my drones have become even more stupid after the patch Wanna Kill > as usually im way ahead of you, my drones have been drooling idiots for ages |
ArmyOfMe
Omniscient Order
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
Oh, and to the OP. Nope, doesnt bother me one bit tbh (not that i have done a lot of suicide ganking in high sec, but it has happend a few times) I take no offence to ppl in this game calling me whatever they want tbh, since i know this is a game in wich i can do whatever i want (within the rules ) and i find it quite amusing to see how some ppl can react to being killed. I probably would have worried a bit more if i was a antisocial **** in rl. (but i would probably have been fired quite quickly then, since i work as a registerd nurse, while getting a masterdegree in intensive care) ArmyOfMe > i swear my drones have become even more stupid after the patch Wanna Kill > as usually im way ahead of you, my drones have been drooling idiots for ages |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:14:00 -
[104] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Sarina Berghil wrote:There is a distinction between friendly mocking/rivalry and the intent to cause emotional grief. Please give an example of what you consider to be smacktalk/mocking/rivalry and what you consider to be a statement designed to cause 'emotional grief'.
General Smacktalk: "Wow that was horrible" "You should know better than to mess with me" "Lols that was easy"
Irritating but in the boundary of Ok
Bad Smacktalk: "UMADBRO? You gonna cry now?" "LOL you fail so hard, biomass yourself immediately, IRL" "You suck so bad why do you bother playing?"
Going a bit to far here. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2017
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:27:00 -
[105] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:People who get pleasure from causing other people misery are sociopaths. That's different than just wanting to PVP, defeart another player, or pad your killboard. There are some people in this game who do really get off on dominating and humiliating somebody else. Call it "collecting tears" or whatever you want. That's being a sociopath, not a game competitor.
People that allow their losses in a video game to cause them misery in their real life are the ones that have issues.
Many people that frequently engage in "ganking" are attempting to ferret out these people and show them how truly meanless the loss of space pixels (that in no way actually belong to them in the first place) actually is.
If being bested in a video game causes you actual misery, seek help.
Someone posted a clinical list of the signs of actual sociopathy. That's all well and good when you are observing their actions in reality, however it falls down when you attempt to apply those rules to most any sort of game or sport.
Games and sports have their own intergal rule set that frequently has little to do with the behavioral rules we are expected to follow in our daily interactions.
In sports you are allowed to take actions that would get you arrested for assault in reality, in poker you are encouraged to decieve your opponents into losing large sums of money to you, in many video games you succeed by killing the enemy and/or destroying their infrastructure... which is exactly what we have in EVE.
Applying your definitions across the broad spectrum of various sports or games would lead you to believe that most professional athletes (and the people that enjoy watching them) and virtually all people that play video games are suffering one form of mental illness or another, often overtly exhibiting criminal behavior.
Obviously this is untrue, and your definitions of sociopathic behavior do not apply in these circumstances.
Not being able to make this distinction between appropriate behavior in a game/sports environment and appropriate behavior in your daily interations, to be unable to seperate fantasy from reality, and the inability to cope with losing or suffering imaginary setbacks in a competitive game/sport IS an issue.
If you want to be concerned about someones mental state, that is where your focus should be. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
Well, I recently found that ganking people in Low Sec tend to drive the local population away from said system, basically giving me and my corporation free access and exclusivity to said system to run sites, mine stuff and everything.
This is why I gank unarmed people. Prevent people from invading your space. |
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:38:00 -
[107] - Quote
Nostradamouse Riraille wrote:Well, I recently found that ganking people in Low Sec tend to drive the local population away from said system, basically giving me and my corporation free access and exclusivity to said system to run sites, mine stuff and everything.
This is why I gank unarmed people. Prevent people from invading your space.
I guess that makes me a goal oriented killer. Making me a sociopath.
Of course...
ya Rly!
You're a horrible evil person and a blight on this community. D:< Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
195
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:42:00 -
[108] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? i think there is other question: what makes person play "the worst" person in game than he is in RL?
I can understand "white knights": in RL you see so many bad things you can't change. You see bad people you can't fight with and they win. But in game you have this option so you can hide from reality and be "the stronger" in game. As i do usually in all games i play. In RL i would evade conflict but in game i have option and power to fight. So i will. But i never wanted to hurt even NPC (not in Eve tho where NPC is obvious and standard source of ISK). What for? I always can win going other way.
Other side is a "dark side". Only reason i can find is: game doesn't give you consequences for your business. Well it gives but not as in RL. Other reasons to be "bad boy" in game? I dunno really.
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
390
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
The most dangerously raging, vicious, hateful, and unprincipled people I've ever met in this game are also to be found among its biggest carebears. In irae, veritas. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1646
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:50:00 -
[110] - Quote
I find it amusing. Any time someone on the internet tries to tell someone else that they're somehow defective because they choose a different online persona, it's funny to watch. My favorites:
- Gankers and griefers are sociopaths
I'm not really a sociopath, but I play one on the internet.
- You only do this here because you're such a loser in real life
And I'm sure that no matter what I told you about my real life, you'd find some way to use it to support your statement. "Loser", after all, is a rather subjective insult.
- Dude you need a girlfriend!
I know! But my wife says I can't have one.
- Something about small genitals
Yeah, they even stoop this low.
I consider it all to be the last resort of carebears who are incapable of admitting to themselves that they suffered a temporary setback in a video game and get on with their play. Instead they rage at their opponent for beating them and hurl petty insults in a vain attempt at making us feel as bad as they do. They try to reassure themselves that they are better than us in real life.
Video game logic: If I'm better than you, you're a noob. If you're better than me, you have no life. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
|
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:53:00 -
[111] - Quote
Svarek wrote:Nostradamouse Riraille wrote:Well, I recently found that ganking people in Low Sec tend to drive the local population away from said system, basically giving me and my corporation free access and exclusivity to said system to run sites, mine stuff and everything.
This is why I gank unarmed people. Prevent people from invading your space.
I guess that makes me a goal oriented killer. Making me a sociopath.
Of course...
ya Rly! You're a horrible evil person and a blight on this community. D:<
I know right... I'm a vicious and territorial newbie carebear. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
195
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Degren wrote: This might be accurate if there were real world consequences for blowing up someone's ship.
so you are saying: some people (i'm looking at you, Eve Online "pvpers") have no internal limiter so they need external consequences to control their behavior?
Sounds to me as perfect example of "sociopath".
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1081
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:57:00 -
[113] - Quote
in real life i am a suicide bomber for the PLO and get a payout from Hamas each time i do a suicide gank, what i do in eve greatly influenced this career choice so i guess the 'sociopath' label fits |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:59:00 -
[114] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Degren wrote: This might be accurate if there were real world consequences for blowing up someone's ship.
so you are saying: some people (i'm looking at you, Eve Online "pvpers") have no internal limiter so they need external consequences to control their behavior? Sounds to me as perfect example of "sociopath".
Oh, most pvpers do have rules : Like : some won't shoot people under a month old unless at war or engaged first by said newbie. Some won't shoot the regulars in system that helped them before. It's pretty rare that people burn bridges intentionnaly.
However, for random strangers, the hunt is on. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:05:00 -
[115] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? i think there is other question: what makes person play "the worst" person in game than he is in RL? I can understand "white knights": in RL you see so many bad things you can't change. You see bad people you can't fight with and they win. But in game you have this option so you can hide from reality and be "the stronger" in game. As i do usually in all games i play. In RL i would evade conflict but in game i have option and power to fight. So i will. But i never wanted to hurt even NPC (not in Eve tho where NPC is obvious and standard source of ISK). What for? I always can win going other way. Other side is a "dark side". Only reason i can find is: game doesn't give you consequences for your business. Well it gives but not as in RL. Other reasons to be "bad boy" in game? I dunno really.
For many, it is the enjoyment of giving the "White Knights" a worthy adversary. People that have run role playing games of all sorts over the last few decades will freely tell you they spend the bulk of their time portraying bad guys for the enjoyment of others (and indirectly for themselves).
For others, it is the simple fact that "Bad Boys" have a certain undeniable cool factor.
Who wasn't a fan of Darth Vader as opposed to the whiney Luke Skywalker, or didn't angrily proclaimed "Han Solo shot first"? Who didn't think Hanibal Lector was a facinating and brilliant psychopath? Who can deny that Heath Ledgers portrayal of the Joker struck a chord, or for that matter didn't secretly identify in some way with the violent vigilante known as The Batman?
There is nothing wrong, ethically or psychologically, with portraying a bad guy in a fictional setting. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
MMOs, card games, and real life sports can not be compared directly. Like comparing apples to car engines. MMOs are much more complex and dynamic. RL games the winning and losing conditions and rules are set. In a MMO such as EVE there are none, beyond no hacking and don't be a bigot.
It's selfish as well to tell others well this is what the game is and that's that. go play WOW if you don't like it. WOW and the majority of other MMOs are fantasy, not many are SCI FI even less are space. It's pretty much this or Star Trek or nothing.
Ranger, it really depends on the degree of loss. Losing a hulk or two every week or two when your trying to accomplish something in game will get frustrating no what who it is. Even you would become frustrated if you lost more ships that your in game income allowed for to the point were you are regressing from your current holdings. In every game when the top guilds/alliances/corporations lose major assets to the point where it's almost unrecoverable you see a lot of anger.
For me if I lost a ship in PVP its like "shucks" lose my pod its "damn", then lose my mission ship to a ganker while trying to recover some loses "SOB", then my pod again,"#$#$^". With enough ISK padding it escalates less but its still there. How many times can you mine out roughly the same amount if isk and killed before you get even a little angry? If you say infinite, can you walk on water too? |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
ITT Armchair psychologists hand out emotional disorders like a 1980's Psychiatrist handing out Ritalin. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7717
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:12:00 -
[118] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:so you are saying: some people (i'm looking at you, Eve Online "pvpers") have no internal limiter so they need external consequences to control their behavior?
Sounds to me as perfect example of "sociopath". No. Someone with ASDP would not recognise those external controls or be limited by them.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
Horus Ernaga wrote:MMOs, card games, and real life sports can not be compared directly. Like comparing apples to car engines. MMOs are much more complex and dynamic. RL games the winning and losing conditions and rules are set. In a MMO such as EVE there are none, beyond no hacking and don't be a bigot.
It's selfish as well to tell others well this is what the game is and that's that. go play WOW if you don't like it. WOW and the majority of other MMOs are fantasy, not many are SCI FI even less are space. It's pretty much this or Star Trek or nothing.
Ranger, it really depends on the degree of loss. Losing a hulk or two every week or two when your trying to accomplish something in game will get frustrating no what who it is. Even you would become frustrated if you lost more ships that your in game income allowed for to the point were you are regressing from your current holdings. In every game when the top guilds/alliances/corporations lose major assets to the point where it's almost unrecoverable you see a lot of anger.
For me if I lost a ship in PVP its like "shucks" lose my pod its "damn", then lose my mission ship to a ganker while trying to recover some loses "SOB", then my pod again,"#$#$^". With enough ISK padding it escalates less but its still there. How many times can you mine out roughly the same amount if isk and killed before you get even a little angry? If you say infinite, can you walk on water too?
MMO's, card games, and real life sports DO have one thing in common. They all have their won unique rules sets... rule sets that have little if anything to do with the rules we follow in our daily real life.
Suicide gankers are not breaking any of the rules of EVE, in fact the rules have been very carefully writting and tweaked over the years to specifically allow it to happen.
While some would (understandably) think that I can walk on water, in fact I cannot. However I do not let the acquisition or loss of imaginary assets upset me in the slightest. My usual reaction to a loss is a simple "Well done"... exactly as it would be if I found myself in check mate, lost a hand at poker, or if I failed to outscore an opponent in a fencing match (it's been awhile).
I will say again, if you feel more than a momentary reaction of "Doh!" when you lose (or lose something) in a game or sport... if you feel uncontrollable rage or misery when this happens, you need to take a large step back from the activity.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:24:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:March rabbit wrote:Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? i think there is other question: what makes person play "the worst" person in game than he is in RL? I can understand "white knights": in RL you see so many bad things you can't change. You see bad people you can't fight with and they win. But in game you have this option so you can hide from reality and be "the stronger" in game. As i do usually in all games i play. In RL i would evade conflict but in game i have option and power to fight. So i will. But i never wanted to hurt even NPC (not in Eve tho where NPC is obvious and standard source of ISK). What for? I always can win going other way. Other side is a "dark side". Only reason i can find is: game doesn't give you consequences for your business. Well it gives but not as in RL. Other reasons to be "bad boy" in game? I dunno really. For many, it is the enjoyment of giving the "White Knights" a worthy adversary. People that have run role playing games of all sorts over the last few decades will freely tell you they spend the bulk of their time portraying bad guys for the enjoyment of others (and indirectly for themselves). For others, it is the simple fact that "Bad Boys" have a certain undeniable cool factor. Who wasn't a fan of Darth Vader as opposed to the whiney Luke Skywalker, or didn't angrily proclaimed "Han Solo shot first"? Who didn't think Hanibal Lector was a facinating and brilliant psychopath? Who can deny that Heath Ledgers portrayal of the Joker struck a chord, or for that matter didn't secretly identify in some way with the violent vigilante known as The Batman? There is nothing wrong, ethically or psychologically, with portraying a bad guy in a fictional setting.
Actually I didn't like Darth Vader, more of a fan of Qui-Gon Jinn, Hanibal Lector was a sick fu@%, I preferred Jack Nicholsons Joker and Batman may have worn black but he was a white Knight. |
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
271
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
You can kind of make the argument that people who grief for no reason beyond lulz and tears are sociopaths, but meh.
It's more funny than bothersome, to me. The funniest one yet is the dude who thinks anyone who has ever PVPed in the game even once is going to go to hell on top of being a sociopath/rapist/child molester/terrorist/etc. IRL.
Yes, this person exists. And yes, I've been on the receiving end of one of their rants.
It's pretty ******* hilarious. |
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
As a borderline sociopath who happens to be able to cope in normal society without recourse to drugs or an institution (now anyway, it wasn't always the case. The drugs they give you generate some GNARLY dreams), and at least pretend to care about the feelings of others in real world encounters, I am grossly offended by the attitudes of most EvE players.
A true sociopath would not play EvE at all, it's an MMO - a social game, where the intent is to impact on other people emotionally (the pixels are just a way of keeping SCORE in this regard).
You have to actually WANT to make other people miserable to engage in ganking and PVP etc. An EvE player CARES that he/she is causing misery and distress. A sociopath does not care, and in fact only really feels in relation to themselves.
So, eve contains few, if any, sociopaths, no matter what whiny carebears like to think/say. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:March rabbit wrote:Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? i think there is other question: what makes person play "the worst" person in game than he is in RL? I can understand "white knights": in RL you see so many bad things you can't change. You see bad people you can't fight with and they win. But in game you have this option so you can hide from reality and be "the stronger" in game. As i do usually in all games i play. In RL i would evade conflict but in game i have option and power to fight. So i will. But i never wanted to hurt even NPC (not in Eve tho where NPC is obvious and standard source of ISK). What for? I always can win going other way. Other side is a "dark side". Only reason i can find is: game doesn't give you consequences for your business. Well it gives but not as in RL. Other reasons to be "bad boy" in game? I dunno really. For many, it is the enjoyment of giving the "White Knights" a worthy adversary. People that have run role playing games of all sorts over the last few decades will freely tell you they spend the bulk of their time portraying bad guys for the enjoyment of others (and indirectly for themselves). For others, it is the simple fact that "Bad Boys" have a certain undeniable cool factor. Who wasn't a fan of Darth Vader as opposed to the whiney Luke Skywalker, or didn't angrily proclaimed "Han Solo shot first"? Who didn't think Hanibal Lector was a facinating and brilliant psychopath? Who can deny that Heath Ledgers portrayal of the Joker struck a chord, or for that matter didn't secretly identify in some way with the violent vigilante known as The Batman? There is nothing wrong, ethically or psychologically, with portraying a bad guy in a fictional setting. Actually I didn't like Darth Vader, more of a fan of Qui-Gon Jinn, Hanibal Lector was a sick fu@%, I preferred Jack Nicholsons Joker and Batman may have worn black but he was a white Knight.
And you are fullly entitled to your opinion of those characters. However if you take the extra step of accusing the actors that portrayed them, or the writer that created and scripted the characters, of obviously having those same qualities (because how else could they act or think like that) you have stepped beyond the realm of common sense.
Fictional settings are just that, as are fictional characters.
Well balanced people are able to keep that distinction firmly in mind. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
348
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:42:00 -
[124] - Quote
Obsidian Dagger wrote:As a borderline sociopath who happens to be able to cope in normal society without recourse to drugs or an institution (now anyway, it wasn't always the case. The drugs they give you generate some GNARLY dreams), and at least pretend to care about the feelings of others in real world encounters, I am grossly offended by the attitudes of most EvE players.
A true sociopath would not play EvE at all, it's an MMO - a social game, where the intent is to impact on other people emotionally (the pixels are just a way of keeping SCORE in this regard).
You have to actually WANT to make other people miserable to engage in ganking and PVP etc. An EvE player CARES that he/she is causing misery and distress. A sociopath does not care, and in fact only really feels in relation to themselves.
So, eve contains few, if any, sociopaths, no matter what whiny carebears like to think/say.
Ok agreed no sociopaths, lots of as*holes though
Tal
|
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:50:00 -
[125] - Quote
Svarek wrote: To be honest, I'd have to side with the PvP-ers on this one, despite being generally more PvE myself. A world without player/player interaction like PvP would be completely flat and false, and the entire aspect of the player-driven world - to which PvP is absolutely vital - is what makes Eve Eve and not some other, generic MMORPG like Star Trek Online.
But you present a false dichotomy. Not many people are just doing PvE, if you count industry as PvP (which some would, if you have competitors). For example I mine sometimes to get mins for the things I build through invention. I mine ice sometimes too to exchange it for fuel blocks (equivalent value) to run the POS I use to manufacture. Am I doing PvE or PvP? To most people PvP is about getting into a ship and firing your guns. The majority of people aren't doing that though. In this context PvP is a minority activity in Eve.
|
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
237
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:53:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote:MMOs, card games, and real life sports can not be compared directly. Like comparing apples to car engines. MMOs are much more complex and dynamic. RL games the winning and losing conditions and rules are set. In a MMO such as EVE there are none, beyond no hacking and don't be a bigot.
It's selfish as well to tell others well this is what the game is and that's that. go play WOW if you don't like it. WOW and the majority of other MMOs are fantasy, not many are SCI FI even less are space. It's pretty much this or Star Trek or nothing.
Ranger, it really depends on the degree of loss. Losing a hulk or two every week or two when your trying to accomplish something in game will get frustrating no what who it is. Even you would become frustrated if you lost more ships that your in game income allowed for to the point were you are regressing from your current holdings. In every game when the top guilds/alliances/corporations lose major assets to the point where it's almost unrecoverable you see a lot of anger.
For me if I lost a ship in PVP its like "shucks" lose my pod its "damn", then lose my mission ship to a ganker while trying to recover some loses "SOB", then my pod again,"#$#$^". With enough ISK padding it escalates less but its still there. How many times can you mine out roughly the same amount if isk and killed before you get even a little angry? If you say infinite, can you walk on water too? MMO's, card games, and real life sports DO have one thing in common. They all have their own unique rules sets... rule sets that have little if anything to do with the rules we follow in our daily real life. Suicide gankers are not breaking any of the rules of EVE, in fact the rules have been very carefully written and tweaked over the years to specifically allow it to happen. While some would (understandably) think that I can walk on water, in fact I cannot. However I do not let the acquisition or loss of imaginary assets upset me in the slightest. My usual reaction to a loss is a simple "Well done"... exactly as it would be if I found myself in check mate, lost a hand at poker, or if I failed to outscore an opponent in a fencing match (it's been awhile). I will say again, if you feel more than a momentary reaction of "Doh!" when you lose (or lose something) in a game or sport... if you feel uncontrollable rage or misery when this happens, you need to take a large step back from the activity.
|
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
348
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:00:00 -
[127] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:AAAARGH, ******* FORUM ATE MY POST!!!!! GRrrrrrrr *throws coke at monitor*
You monitorpath
Tal
|
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:01:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Zyress wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:March rabbit wrote:Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? i think there is other question: what makes person play "the worst" person in game than he is in RL? I can understand "white knights": in RL you see so many bad things you can't change. You see bad people you can't fight with and they win. But in game you have this option so you can hide from reality and be "the stronger" in game. As i do usually in all games i play. In RL i would evade conflict but in game i have option and power to fight. So i will. But i never wanted to hurt even NPC (not in Eve tho where NPC is obvious and standard source of ISK). What for? I always can win going other way. Other side is a "dark side". Only reason i can find is: game doesn't give you consequences for your business. Well it gives but not as in RL. Other reasons to be "bad boy" in game? I dunno really. For many, it is the enjoyment of giving the "White Knights" a worthy adversary. People that have run role playing games of all sorts over the last few decades will freely tell you they spend the bulk of their time portraying bad guys for the enjoyment of others (and indirectly for themselves). For others, it is the simple fact that "Bad Boys" have a certain undeniable cool factor. Who wasn't a fan of Darth Vader as opposed to the whiney Luke Skywalker, or didn't angrily proclaimed "Han Solo shot first"? Who didn't think Hanibal Lector was a facinating and brilliant psychopath? Who can deny that Heath Ledgers portrayal of the Joker struck a chord, or for that matter didn't secretly identify in some way with the violent vigilante known as The Batman? There is nothing wrong, ethically or psychologically, with portraying a bad guy in a fictional setting. Actually I didn't like Darth Vader, more of a fan of Qui-Gon Jinn, Hanibal Lector was a sick fu@%, I preferred Jack Nicholsons Joker and Batman may have worn black but he was a white Knight. And you are fullly entitled to your opinion of those characters. However if you take the extra step of accusing the actors that portrayed them, or the writer that created and scripted the characters, of obviously having those same qualities (because how else could they act or think like that) you have stepped beyond the realm of common sense. Fictional settings are just that, as are fictional characters. Well balanced people are able to keep that distinction firmly in mind.
Actors play a part because they were cast for it, they are being paid to play it, or they think its a challenging role that will advance their career, it would not be logical to assume they enjoy being an a$$, thats not a good comparison to a video gamer that chooses, their role, how they want to behave in regard to other human beings. I have no problem with Pvp, I enjoy it, but I don't force it on people trying to avoid it by living in hi-sec aside from legitimate war targets. I'm not saying hisec should be perfectly safe and a$$hol@s are a necessary part of the game, much more boring without them. Fortunately there are plenty of them to be found and they obviously enjoy their negative interactions. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Svarek wrote: To be honest, I'd have to side with the PvP-ers on this one, despite being generally more PvE myself. A world without player/player interaction like PvP would be completely flat and false, and the entire aspect of the player-driven world - to which PvP is absolutely vital - is what makes Eve Eve and not some other, generic MMORPG like Star Trek Online.
But you present a false dichotomy. Not many people are just doing PvE, if you count industry as PvP (which some would, if you have competitors). For example I mine sometimes to get mins for the things I build through invention. I mine ice sometimes too to exchange it for fuel blocks (equivalent value) to run the POS I use to manufacture. Am I doing PvE or PvP? To most people PvP is about getting into a ship and firing your guns. The majority of people aren't doing that though. In this context PvP is a minority activity in Eve.
Literal definitions of PVP aside and speaking strictly of combat situation... unless you are one of the individuals that never undocks everyone in EVE is engaged in either seeking out or avoiding PVP. It is the most common activity in the game, and always has been. It is a constant competition that includes people actively seeking combat as well as those actively seeking to evade (or at least survive) it.
Everything in EVE centers around this simple fact. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Quote:Actors play a part because they were cast for it, they are being paid to play it, or they think its a challenging role that will advance their career, it would not be logical to assume they enjoy being an a$$, thats not a good comparison to a video gamer that chooses, their role, how they want to behave in regard to other human beings. I have no problem with Pvp, I enjoy it, but I don't force it on people trying to avoid it by living in hi-sec aside from legitimate war targets. I'm not saying hisec should be perfectly safe and a$$hol@s are a necessary part of the game, much more boring without them. Fortunately there are plenty of them to be found and they obviously enjoy their negative interactions.
Actors also often play those parts because they enjoyed them and found them interesting. Check the bio of most actors and they often list classic bad guys as the most enjoyable characters they have portrayed.
Writers often feel the same way about the most memorable villians they have created, not to mention that without those villians their story's would have been abysmally boring.
The EVE universe is every bit as much a fictional universe as any movie or book, and you can no more compare the actions of the fictional characters in that universe to the people behind them than you can the mental state of the actor or writer who enjoys portraying/creating a character for a fictional movie or book.
There is nothing wrong with trying to avoid PVP situations in EVE, just as there is nothing wrong with trying to force PVP situations. The capability to do both are an intergal part of the game.
Attributing psychological problems to people that pursue those perfectly acceptable and allowed activities in EVE is nonsense, exactly as it is nonsense to accuse Vincent Price or Alfred Hitchcock of being a dangerous maniac.
People that insist on doing so have a serious problem separating fiction from reality. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
|
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:44:00 -
[131] - Quote
[/quote] MMO's, card games, and real life sports DO have one thing in common. They all have their own unique rules sets... rule sets that have little if anything to do with the rules we follow in our daily real life.
Suicide gankers are not breaking any of the rules of EVE, in fact the rules have been very carefully written and tweaked over the years to specifically allow it to happen.
While some would (understandably) think that I can walk on water, in fact I cannot. However I do not let the acquisition or loss of imaginary assets upset me in the slightest. My usual reaction to a loss is a simple "Well done"... exactly as it would be if I found myself in check mate, lost a hand at poker, or if I failed to outscore an opponent in a fencing match (it's been awhile).
I will say again, if you feel more than a momentary reaction of "Doh!" when you lose (or lose something) in a game or sport... if you feel uncontrollable rage or misery when this happens, you need to take a large step back from the activity.[/quote]
Of course we have rules, but they and the way they are used are far from the norm. I'm sure they, like myself, at first wonder they being killed just floating around some rocks versus that guy over there in his shiny battleship, or those guys out there looking for a fight, especially since this is high sec and they are guaranteed to lose their ship.
Like I said, I'm positive the majority of use feel something when losing a ship or pod even if just for a brief moment, hard to imagine someone smiling or completely blank during. Of course there are always exception, I laughed when my full meta 1 caracal was jumped at a gate by 10 people. Though getting podded wasn't quite as funny. I agree though if it upsets you for a duration or you completely lose it you should step away. In general that response comes from repeat offenses at in-opportune times for that specific player. Hunting down these players only adds to the problem as the compounds the frequency, so yes you are liking to get a emotion outburst.
All in all shame on those that hunt these people down just for the response, and shame on those that do not step away before such a response can be |
Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:24:00 -
[132] - Quote
The safety of remote + pseudonymity keeps attracting the same kind of people on the interwebs. Like that drunk little guy with the wizard hat. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:28:00 -
[133] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:The safety of remote + pseudonymity keeps attracting the same kind of people on the interwebs. Like that drunk little guy with the wizard hat. Your fallacy falls apart when you realize that he was there in real life. Drinking real Jager.
On camera. Un-delayed, natch.
And you paid for it.
At the end of the day his plane ride home was on you, too. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2018
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:40:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quote:MMO's, card games, and real life sports DO have one thing in common. They all have their own unique rules sets... rule sets that have little if anything to do with the rules we follow in our daily real life.
Suicide gankers are not breaking any of the rules of EVE, in fact the rules have been very carefully written and tweaked over the years to specifically allow it to happen.
While some would (understandably) think that I can walk on water, in fact I cannot. However I do not let the acquisition or loss of imaginary assets upset me in the slightest. My usual reaction to a loss is a simple "Well done"... exactly as it would be if I found myself in check mate, lost a hand at poker, or if I failed to outscore an opponent in a fencing match (it's been awhile).
I will say again, if you feel more than a momentary reaction of "Doh!" when you lose (or lose something) in a game or sport... if you feel uncontrollable rage or misery when this happens, you need to take a large step back from the activity.
Quote:Of course we have rules, but they and the way they are used are far from the norm. I'm sure they, like myself, at first wonder they being killed just floating around some rocks versus that guy over there in his shiny battleship, or those guys out there looking for a fight, especially since this is high sec and they are guaranteed to lose their ship.
Like I said, I'm positive the majority of use feel something when losing a ship or pod even if just for a brief moment, hard to imagine someone smiling or completely blank during. Of course there are always exception, I laughed when my full meta 1 caracal was jumped at a gate by 10 people. Though getting podded wasn't quite as funny. I agree though if it upsets you for a duration or you completely lose it you should step away. In general that response comes from repeat offenses at in-opportune times for that specific player. Hunting down these players only adds to the problem as the compounds the frequency, so yes you are liking to get a emotion outburst.
All in all shame on those that hunt these people down just for the response, and shame on those that do not step away before such a response can be
You are getting there, but have still missed the point.
Non consentual combat in all it's forms is completely the norm, the whole game is designed around it.
People get confused on a subconcious level when they see Concord retaliate and blow up a suicide ganker. In the back of their head they see an in game authority figure punishing someone for criminal behavior and think "this person is breaking the rules and doing something fundamentally wrong... what's wrong with him."
This is, of course, nonsense.
That ganker has done literally nothing wrong and is playing the game well within the rules. In fact, a large amount of programming was done specifically to allow him to do this. It would have been far simpler to simply not allow weapons activation in high sec unless it is against a war target or someone with a GCC. Instead a great deal of effort went into making it possible to suicide gank, but in a manner that had very measured penalties to it as well.
Suicide ganker does not equal griefer, exploiter, rule breaker, cheater, sociopath or anything else other than simply being another player playing EVE by the rules. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
311
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:43:00 -
[135] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Virgil Travis wrote: Actually no it's not, I was talking about the attitude that you should be left alone which has nothing to do with what you're talking about at all, so my argument is not moot at all, it's just you trying to change it to suit yourself. I'm not talking about game mechanics at all so if you wish to discuss that fine, but I'm talking about that fact that some people feel they should be allowed to be completely separated from the rest of the game, which is utterly fallacious thinking.
It is moot, because what are you arguing here? If another player wants to be left alone to engage in whatever activity in Sandbox Eve, where ganking his ass is one possible choice of many and by no means compulsory, who are you to say he's "playing it wrong"? It's really none of your business what he does with his time! Why do you even care? I honestly have no idea where the fun is in doing something like that. If he's in field with 9 other Hulks all called ChingChongChang0x, then yes, I can see the point. But if it's OldeBob and his alt mining Velspar, what is the point? It's just, you know, being an ass for the hell of it. I have a nephew who likes to be an ass just for the hell of it. He's a lovely lad out of game, but a complete twonk inside of it. I try to teach him a little self-respect and tell him that even though it's a lot of space pixels, there are other people, some of whom suffer from a surfeit of emotion, out there on the other end of the line. He pays no attention. I'm sure that he'll grow out of it. Anyway, don't get me wrong, suicide ganking is fine if you aren't doing it with recycled alt. It's just called Gameplay. If you are doing it with recycled alt it's totally not fine and is an exploit. I would be interested to know what proportion of ganks are of the latter form. If it's a significant number CCP has a problem.
This is my argument: If he's in the same universe as me and I encounter him and decide I want to interact in whichever way, be that mining the rocks he wanted to, undercutting him on the market or blowing his ship up the sandbox gives me that option. If he want's to be left alone he has to assert that right by either finding a place where I don't go or using some method to deter me, it's not an assumed right for him to say 'leave me alone', he should have some way to back that up and if he can't, the sandbox says 'sorry, you lose'
I don't gank myself, but I agree, using disposable alts is an exploit and players should deal with the consequences, but those wishing simply to be left alone, it's not a right that's given to them, it's something they earn, find a quiet system or get some teeth and tell the gankers where to go.
Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:43:00 -
[136] - Quote
How is one form of button mashing to move data around in Eve's database morally superior to another form of button mashing to move data around in Eve's database?
Please, anybody who can explain this?
I worry I may be a sociopath if I play a game. |
Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:The safety of remote + pseudonymity keeps attracting the same kind of people on the interwebs. Like that drunk little guy with the wizard hat. Your fallacy falls apart when you realize that he was there in real life. Drinking real Jager. On camera. Un-delayed, natch. And you paid for it. At the end of the day his plane ride home was on you, too.
You really think you can troll a **** like me with the jager thing? |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:45:00 -
[138] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:Disregard That wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:The safety of remote + pseudonymity keeps attracting the same kind of people on the interwebs. Like that drunk little guy with the wizard hat. Your fallacy falls apart when you realize that he was there in real life. Drinking real Jager. On camera. Un-delayed, natch. And you paid for it. At the end of the day his plane ride home was on you, too. You really think you can troll a N-a-z-i like me with the jager thing? Did you reply? |
Heinrich Rotwang
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:54:00 -
[139] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Did you reply?
Oh, you're pulling the last resort early :-)
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:57:00 -
[140] - Quote
But really, I'm talking about button-mashing on these forums.
Fallacies aside.
How is one form morally superior to another form?
How is where you put CCP's data on their game board somehow sacrosanct and how others manipulate the data is reprehensible?
Do you hold all your Draw Fours when you play Uno against your friends/family/children/acquaintences/strangers?
I doubt this very much. |
|
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:38:00 -
[141] - Quote
No wrongdoing any eve-player has ever done could be as bad as this!
Therefore there is no reason to be bothered, there are worse out there, much worse...
"You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1359
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:06:00 -
[142] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:Hmm, so your sayin its the solo miners that are mining the minerals that almost every item in eve is constructed from are the ones that are unable to relate to EVE society. That the players that shoot those defenseless mining ships are actually helping EVE as a group by making those naughty miners stop with their selfish activities...
I cant possibly think think of any flaws in that argument, no sir no flaws in that logic, we just get rid of the selfish primary producers and the rest of society will be just fine. Or your making excuses to justify your previous beliefs, one or the other.
The thing you are forgetting is that they do it for money. Not for the community. Dear god your post was painful to read. You don't know |
Khadann
First Legion
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:34:00 -
[143] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
That is funny, i have read the exact same thing about high sec pilots these last weeks :s |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:21:00 -
[144] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:Who doesn't want to be the cool kid who runs around killing folks randomly without seeming to care about consequence or reputation... who has the skill to pull off such ganks, the balls to actually pvp, who does not seem at all constrained by societies norms... those norms which so hinder themselves. There's nothing wrong with that fantasy, but it doesn't appeal to me.
I can't say how many people share my tastes. I doubt I'm an utter aberration though. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Gitanmaxx
Viziam Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:25:00 -
[145] - Quote
stop trying to defend yourself by calling yourselves PvPers.
PvP means player vs player, not being a d-bag. The two are not one in the same and no one has ever attacked pvp as a whole in this way. People who are jerks like to try and misconstrue the point to this to defend themselves.
Bottom line if you're a d-bag and a jerk to people just because you can get away with it on the internet you are a loser. No it's not your pvp-ing that makes you a loser, it's the way you do it and they are not the same thing so stop trying to hide behind the term pvp. they are not one and the same.
pvp does not stand for scam whoever whenever, annoy people for no personal gain other than the sadistic pleasure you get from griefing, or in general being a socially inept arse-hat just because you're a loser in real life and want to bully others to feel better about yourselves. pvp stands for player vs. player, which does not include any of the above in it's definition. it is merely matching your skills against another human being. Something that many of us do in every game we play without the need to be obnoxious tools about.
one more time for the slow folks out there.
The definition of PvP is not being a d-bag, so when someone calls you out on being said douche don't reply with "what you don't like pvp?" because that's not what they're making fun of you for. |
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:50:00 -
[146] - Quote
I like the part where people think their feelings on a subject mean it's right or wrong. Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
PVPers are not sociopaths.
They're just kids, and kids do whatever they want to have fun. Example: the behaviour of the disgraced lawyer at FanFest, and his goose-steppers on the boards shortly thereafter. |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:59:00 -
[148] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:You are getting there, but have still missed the point. Non consentual combat in all it's forms is completely the norm, the whole game is designed around it. People get confused on a subconcious level when they see Concord retaliate and blow up a suicide ganker. In the back of their head they see an in game authority figure punishing someone for criminal behavior and think "this person is breaking the rules and doing something fundamentally wrong... what's wrong with him." This is, of course, nonsense. That ganker has done literally nothing wrong and is playing the game well within the rules. In fact, a large amount of programming was done specifically to allow him to do this. It would have been far simpler to simply not allow weapons activation in high sec unless it is against a war target or someone with a GCC. Instead a great deal of effort went into making it possible to suicide gank, but in a manner that had very measured penalties to it as well. Suicide ganker does not equal griefer, exploiter, rule breaker, cheater, sociopath or anything else other than simply being another player playing EVE by the rules.
Wrong within the game rules perhaps. That isn't the whats at question here. The real question is why are these players specifically targeting those that do with wish to be targeted. More so than that, in a game with PVP why target the weakest who pose no threat, and claim it's for the emotional response? Targeting people for gross profit in high sec is one thing, but this is altogether a different animal. Finding a freighter on it's way to Jita loaded with goodies and unprotected, then dispatching a group to kill it is one thing. Takes some effort and training. Seeking and destroying miners in belts takes 10 days of training to accomplish and little forethought. It's unfortunate that people do not think it is in some way unfair.
If instead of the various reasons people claim to target miners they stated a truth in the matter, it's easy and takes little effort and make more than you lose (Average gains come out far ahead, especially when paid after 10 kills), you wouldn't have forum posts such as the OPs.
As for the separating reality from fiction aspect, I can not go with with argument. I remember losing my very first hulk to gankers 3 days or so after purchasing it. I even took time to generate a buffer of isk, and collect what was posted all over as "well tanked hulk", you know the one, some deaadspace gear with a small shield booster. Destoryer warp into the belt, "Hrmm must be ratting" In local: "Sorry dude just killed them". Couple more warp in and suddenly I'm being targeted scrammed and webbed, in seconds there goes my hulk tanked and all. You might be sitting there thinking well that was dumb of you. Your almost right, I was still rather new to both eve and pvp oriented games. Did I get a little upset at losing my ship? Absolutely. Because I --really-- did sit here at my computer in --real life-- for several weeks to acquire the assets to afford the hulk and fitting, plus buffer. Not to mention my fitting proved absolutely useless against a much less expensive opponent, in high security space. I could see locking me down in low sec and having time to beat me down against a group of destroyers sure, if that was the case my drones might of been enough to ward them off, if it wasn't sooo fast. Add the fact ehrn I got back out to the belt nothing was looted. The deadspace gear was destroyed in the explosion. All 3 T2 lasers were there and several others. Confusion ensued. It may of been just pixels lost from your side but it was also real time spent by me. Some obscenities were yelled, followed by a short duration of confusion and bewilderment. Then I spent my buffer on a new covetor and went back to mining for another hulk. Which I never made it to. Having to jump out of a belt over and over every time someone came in got old fast. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
397
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:24:00 -
[149] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:PVPers are not sociopaths. They're just kids, and kids do whatever they want to have fun. Example: the behaviour of the disgraced lawyer at FanFest, and his goose-steppers on the boards shortly thereafter.
Confirming, I step geese. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
397
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
I am also ~literally~ a child. I'm posting this from mommy's smartphone outside of the JCPenny while she tries on dresses. After this we are going to go get some ice cream and then go home where daddy is going to "Get sauced" and hit me with his belt while screaming he wished I was a boy.
I am a boy :( |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7731
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:35:00 -
[151] - Quote
Horus Ernaga wrote:The real question is why are these players specifically targeting those that do with wish to be targeted. Because they're valid targets and because wishing not to be targeted isn't reason enough not to target them GÇö they have to actually avoid making themselves targets if they want to achieve that goal.
Also, since many of them did what you did and followed bad advice, it's a good idea to do so for a number of reasons (and you also illustrate why, in spite of the adamant insistence to the contrary from the victim camp, there are some very real risks to it all). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
994
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:45:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote:The real question is why are these players specifically targeting those that do with wish to be targeted. Because they're valid targets and because wishing not to be targeted isn't reason enough not to target them GÇö they have to actually avoid making themselves targets if they want to achieve that goal. Also, since many of them did what you did and followed bad advice, it's a good idea to do so for a number of reasons (and you also illustrate why, in spite of the adamant insistence to the contrary from the victim camp, there are some very real risks to it all).
Actually Tippia, I think he's talking about the tank in Halada's guide. It's not that bad ... BUT it's only good in the place it was designed to be used, and for the purpose it was designed for (i.e. tanking nullsec rat DPS).
Far as ganking miners goes ... I do it so I can have the rocks to myself. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7732
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:57:00 -
[153] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Actually Tippia, I think he's talking about the tank in Halada's guide. It's not that bad ... BUT it's only good in the place it was designed to be used, and for the purpose it was designed for (i.e. tanking nullsec rat DPS). I know what he was talking about, and I still consider it bad advice for pretty much that reason: it just presents a tank, and while the guide mentions what it's supposed to protect against, it completely fails to mention the alternatives and why you might want to choose them instead. For the new player, there is no way of spotting that omission.
It's like selling a Mac Pro to a complete computer illiterate person because it's what everyone in video production uses, and not mentioning that, no, it won't come with Solitaire or MS Paint or GÇ£that blue GÇÿeGÇÖ that means GÇÿthe internetsGÇÖGÇ¥, or that a grey box with two fewer zeros at the end of the price tag will probably do what the user wants far betterGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:57:00 -
[154] - Quote
Being new I had no idea it was bad advice. At the time no one said fit extenders. It was all "Stay aligned" "Don't AFK' "Warp when someone enter the belt". Which leaves you warping in and out constantly in a lot of places. I had yet to see a solid way of not making yourself a target other than just not logging on or not being a miner period. Fight back you say? Sure take your low combat skills or non existent combat skills and knowledge and go fight the enemy. Wait what, that didn't work out well? OK put yourself offline for awhile and get some more combat SP? Come on really? If your in the game to take part of the industrial/market PVP why are you forced to take the combat route? Option 3: Hire someone? Sure I'll take you ISK and crush these guys... Wow their all docked from the war dec, sorry dude. No you dont get a refund, or in some cases... thanks for the isk.. this is boring we are going back over here now...Option 4: Get some permanent guards for you high sec mini..... What the hell am I saying? I for one am not going to sit in a belt for two hours while Joe Dirt mines... at least Joe is doing something more than staring at his overview even part of the time.
Now I know extenders will lower how appealing of a target you are, that's just until someone figures out how to overcome it. I'm sure. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
629
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:08:00 -
[155] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I am also ~literally~ a child. I'm posting this from mommy's smartphone outside of the JCPenny while she tries on dresses. After this we are going to go get some ice cream and then go home where daddy is going to "Get sauced" and hit me with his belt while screaming he wished I was a boy.
I am a boy :(
maybe the best gd post ever |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:17:00 -
[156] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Tippia wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote:The real question is why are these players specifically targeting those that do with wish to be targeted. Because they're valid targets and because wishing not to be targeted isn't reason enough not to target them GÇö they have to actually avoid making themselves targets if they want to achieve that goal. Also, since many of them did what you did and followed bad advice, it's a good idea to do so for a number of reasons (and you also illustrate why, in spite of the adamant insistence to the contrary from the victim camp, there are some very real risks to it all). Actually Tippia, I think he's talking about the tank in Halada's guide. It's not that bad ... BUT it's only good in the place it was designed to be used, and for the purpose it was designed for (i.e. tanking nullsec rat DPS). Far as ganking miners goes ... I do it so I can have the rocks to myself.
Like taking the rocks just to sell or actually refining them to use in production? The former I won't comment on, the ladder however I can live with.
Don't get me wrong I understand as long as you are logged in your in a lot of ways a target regardless of profession. My point is they have little interest in our side of PVP but have little in the way of actually preventing it. |
Shaampoo
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:19:00 -
[157] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? I am not bothered because i cant fell empathy and i am psychopathic |
Widow Cain
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Degren wrote:Ten Bulls wrote:Hmm, so your sayin its the solo miners that are mining the minerals that almost every item in eve is constructed from are the ones that are unable to relate to EVE society. That the players that shoot those defenseless mining ships are actually helping EVE as a group by making those naughty miners stop with their selfish activities...
I cant possibly think think of any flaws in that argument, no sir no flaws in that logic, we just get rid of the selfish primary producers and the rest of society will be just fine. Or your making excuses to justify your previous beliefs, one or the other.
The thing you are forgetting is that they do it for money. Not for the community. Dear god your post was painful to read.
I bomb people for the community, unlike those greedy miners.
OMG You are sooo pixel macho... |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
158
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:42:00 -
[159] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
It's quite well known that people act in games, they way they would like to act in RL, but can't due to pesky laws and such.
That being said, my guess would be the people they are calling sociopath would be the ones who prefer PvG. Ganking someone who can't fight back. Nothing wrong with ganking imho, although current mechanics appear to be broken with respect to balance.
However someone who lives for the tears, probably has other issues....
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:43:00 -
[160] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
No, because those people clearly don't know the definition of one.
Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Yes. |
|
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
135
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:47:00 -
[161] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection.
Today what someone does or does not do to me, someone is going to hate me in the real world, and then I just mine Veldspar and wait for the sirens...and count the number of teeth and skull fragments I found imbedded in the baseball bat I used. it's all about the Frame Rate... |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:53:00 -
[162] - Quote
i blow up spaceships in a super simulated computer universe
i burn ants alive with a magnifying glass in the real world |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:00:00 -
[163] - Quote
I scream hate at the towers as my scorpion fires cruise missiles at it.
It could be that I'm trying to drown out Boat, however. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:05:00 -
[164] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground. No, because those people clearly don't know the definition of one. Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? Yes.
Act? No, probably not. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely. For the guy who you told to "Cry moar" is indeed not standing in front of you, and with almost certainty never will. On the other hand if he was it might be something along the lines of "Sorry dude". Which isn't how you feel but the other option "could" endanger you. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
399
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:13:00 -
[165] - Quote
Horus Ernaga wrote: Act? No, probably not. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely. For the guy who you told to "Cry moar" is indeed not standing in front of you, and with almost certainty never will. On the other hand if he was it might be something along the lines of "Sorry dude". Which isn't how you feel but the other option "could" endanger you.
Say that the next time some dickbag manager lays off half his staff during a hallmark production year while claiming "The Economy" just so he and his fellow stockholders can have a few percentage points more on their dividends.
I do have to admit that I don't act in real life the same way I do in eve however.
I can't fly spaceships you see.
:( |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:23:00 -
[166] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote: Act? No, probably not. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely. For the guy who you told to "Cry moar" is indeed not standing in front of you, and with almost certainty never will. On the other hand if he was it might be something along the lines of "Sorry dude". Which isn't how you feel but the other option "could" endanger you.
Say that the next time some dickbag manager lays off half his staff during a hallmark production year while claiming "The Economy" just so he and his fellow stockholders can have a few percentage points more on their dividends. I do have to admit that I don't act in real life the same way I do in eve however. I can't fly spaceships you see. :( Reality is harsh too. :( Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
322
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:32:00 -
[167] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:[Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that.
The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec.
I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic. If you refuse to accept that 'it's just a game' then it is you that has the problem. Red Herring. You didn't answer the question. Instead you derailed and asked attention be placed on the victim. It's about what I expect, to be honest. Still, I'll respond to your comment (even though this is not what this topic was about).
I think if a person doesn't react well to a loss (and isn't being emotionally provoked) then he probably needs to learn to cope better with emotional situations. I've met many people like that in real life who mostly overreact to situations. However, I don't necessarily consider this to be a "short circuit" of the brain and more a case of a person being exposed to a situation they have had no experience in dealing with.
Just my 2 cents. |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:41:00 -
[168] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Mittens was banned for 30 days for just that. His only regret was that he made a bad political move.
The only reason CCP banned him was for political reasons. |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:43:00 -
[169] - Quote
What people think when they gank a miner in high-sec:
BlackOps 1 this is CommandoOps, over. CommandoOps this is BlackOps 1. Are you in position CommandoOps? We are in position BlackOps 1. Rgr CommandoOps. Target in range. Proceed to coordinates 123 X 456 X 789. Account for nearby solar activity on warp in. Coordinates entered. Using the tangent of a right triangle on a dipolar shift to account for solar storm. We are on our way BlackOps 1, over. CommandoOps Leader to CommandoOps team, Open Fire! Glorious Pew Pew. \o/
What really goes on:
Gang Leader: "Dirty Bird, get on comms man. We're going ganking in hi-sec. Oh, and dont fart into the micrpphone this time. It was funny once, maybe twice, but its getting old dude." ( while waiting for Dirty Bird for 15 minutes ) Gang Member 4: "Sorry fellas, my wife just got home and is making me mow the lawn." Gang Leader: "Ok, no worries mate. Where the hell is Dirty Bird?" Dirty Bird: *veerrrppp* Gang Leader: "I swear I'm going to mute you on TS Dirty Bird if you keep doing that." Gang Member 1: "Finally. Can we get on with this? My girlfriend said she cook me dinner, but I have to go to the grocery first." Gang Leader: "Everyone ready?" Gang Members 1 and 2: "Ready!" Gang Member 3: "Hey guys! Check this out. New boob pictures of Lindsay Lohan! \o/" Gang Leader: "I'm not falling for that again. Last time you gave us a link to 60 year old grandmothers"
Dirty Bird: *verrrrpppp!*
Gang Leader: "Dirty Bird.... knock it off dude. I swear I... Theres a hulk!!!! Warp warp warp!!!" Random Gang Chatter: "Tee hee" and "Moar Tears!!"
PEW PEW PEW *pop*
Dehulked Miner: * SIGH * "You guys suck..."
Random Gang Chatter: "Give us Moar! Moar Tears!" and "You deserved it" and "You mad bro?"
Dirty Bird: * really wet sounding veeerrrpppp * Dirty Bird: .... Dirty Bird: "brb fellas, have to go to the bathroom" When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:44:00 -
[170] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote: Act? No, probably not. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely. For the guy who you told to "Cry moar" is indeed not standing in front of you, and with almost certainty never will. On the other hand if he was it might be something along the lines of "Sorry dude". Which isn't how you feel but the other option "could" endanger you.
Say that the next time some dickbag manager lays off half his staff during a hallmark production year while claiming "The Economy" just so he and his fellow stockholders can have a few percentage points more on their dividends. I do have to admit that I don't act in real life the same way I do in eve however. I can't fly spaceships you see. :(
What?
Anyway, we are speaking of personalities not ability. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7735
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:45:00 -
[171] - Quote
GÇ£psychopathy refers not only to specific behavioral patterns but measurable cognitive, emotional, and neuropsychological differences.GÇ¥
GǪso no. Pick another one.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:50:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gǣpsychopathy refers not only to specific behavioral patterns but measurable cognitive, emotional, and neuropsychological differences.Gǥ GǪso no. Pick another one.
"a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions."
Sounds like EVE to me. |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:52:00 -
[173] - Quote
Horus Ernaga wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground. No, because those people clearly don't know the definition of one. Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? Yes. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely.
You might, but that's a no for me. |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:58:00 -
[174] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:Tippia wrote:Gǣpsychopathy refers not only to specific behavioral patterns but measurable cognitive, emotional, and neuropsychological differences.Gǥ GǪso no. Pick another one. "a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the feelings of others and often the rules of society. Psychopaths have a lack of empathy and remorse, and have very shallow emotions." Sounds like EVE to me.
Kinda sounds like King Cyberbully lol |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
People in the real world can be opportunistic, misanthropic, manipulative, vindictive, pragmatic, or materialistic. People can do the same in EVE.
Do I think they engage in the same behaviors? Yes, if you're talking about 'douchebag behaviors,' 'complacent behaviors,' 'risk averse behaviors,' and 'short term gratification behaviors,' I wouldn't be surprised if there was overlap. If you're talking about flying around in spaceships and pew-pewing people, I don't think anyone does that. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Ice Poljus
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:59:00 -
[176] - Quote
im a null sec lone wolf pvper... im a sociopath probably... do i care? no i do not |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:22:00 -
[177] - Quote
I'm no psychologist and no, not even on the internet but wouldn't a sociopath struggle greatly to get past the eve noob stages. Being impulsive and lacking patience and all that. Or are people thinking of "movie sociopaths" |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:23:00 -
[178] - Quote
Now to go browse webMD and wikipedia to self-diagnose yourself with Aspergers. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:29:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:I'm no psychologist and no, not even on the internet but wouldn't a sociopath struggle greatly to get past the eve noob stages. Being impulsive and lacking patience and all that. Or are people thinking of "movie sociopaths"
People see gankers ganking in high-sec and they automatically think of this guy. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
402
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:29:00 -
[180] - Quote
EVE Roy Mustang wrote: Kinda sounds like King Cyberbully lol
I hope in twenty years we're all embarrassed for even using this term. |
|
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 03:40:00 -
[181] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:People see gankers ganking in high-sec and they automatically think of this guy.
Hey, look, it's granddad. Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 05:13:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Horus Ernaga wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground. No, because those people clearly don't know the definition of one. Knus'lar wrote:For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life? Yes. Do you act in a game the way you think in RL? Definitely. You might, but that's a no for me.
Your right that was to much a a generalization. I should say some people. Sorry. |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
42
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:52:00 -
[183] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.
Am I the only one who wouldnt go murdering IRL if there were suddenly no consequences? That is just not something I would EVER do. But in game i a perfectly intent to blow up internet pixels |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2030
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:57:00 -
[184] - Quote
Quote:I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.
Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game.
That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:02:00 -
[185] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox. Am I the only one who wouldnt go murdering IRL if there were suddenly no consequences? That is just not something I would EVER do. But in game i a perfectly intent to blow up internet pixels
I'd do it if, when it was over, the victim stood up and said, 'man, that was terrifying! I nearly pooped my pants!' and then I go, "man, that was the coolest thing I've done all day....ok my turn!" |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:02:00 -
[186] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:
You have a link where someone who was ganked (NPC alt's don't count) saying flat out that anyone who ganks or does PvP is a sociopath?
I can't tell if he was ganked or is an alt, but from here. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether? Do you consider the act of enjoying ruining someone else's day (ie "collecting tears") normal or even healthy behavior? And I am not talking about PVP'ing for in-game reasons. When you "PVP" to deliberately provoke real negative reactions from a real human being because this brings you joy (note how your enjoyment is also real) then you can stop it right there claiming that the game is "just a game", because at that point to you, it has become more than that. The game itself has become a real-life tool to project your ill-intent. And I maintain that not only are you a sociopath, but a sadistic one at that. The hate and pleasure for ruining people's days that hulkageddon seems to breed are but a few signs of this ill-intent behavior. And no, I haven't been ganked in hi sec. I don't even mine in hi sec. I also find the hypocrisy of a couple of posters in this very thread who have in numerous occasions called carebears (among other names) greedy, cowards, and sociopaths in real life, quite ironic.
You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:13:00 -
[187] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:
You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.
Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children. |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:13:00 -
[188] - Quote
Gitanmaxx wrote:stop trying to defend yourself by calling yourselves PvPers.
PvP means player vs player, not being a d-bag.
Well....
But seriosuly, it depends on how you look at it. If someone blows up my ship, Are they a d-bag or am i too emotionally attached? Think about that for me |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:19:00 -
[189] - Quote
I say 'both.' although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:23:00 -
[190] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:I say 'both.'
I dont know why. I say 'Bolth'. (Get it?)
But i dont know man, am I a douche for blowing up a hulk that has no tank and isnt aligned? I dont think so. "Dont make your lack of planning into my emergency." is one of my favorite quotes. Really no one should ever die to high sec gankers. But they make themselves a false sense of security and get too attached to their ships. That isnt the ganker's fault |
|
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:54:00 -
[191] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game. That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.
The point Ranger 1 is making is valid.
Step out of your 1st world, plentifull food and resources point of view for 1 second and take a look around. Ever seen news video here in the US of Black Friday?
This lady pepper sprayed shoppers so she could get something she wanted to buy that was in limited supply.
That is just one real world example of exactly the kind of behavior we are all talking about. Look up more black friday tales and see how quickly people let loose with the crazy and this is in the USA.
Want more examples of the crazy?
How about these cops that shot victims after the Katrina hurricane hit New Orleans.
This also happened in the USA. Am I opening everyones eyes yet?
These are not isolated incidents of a few crackpot fringe group numpties. These are your neighbors. Your neighbors play video games and some of them may even play Eve.
We are just a few meals away from anarchy. Keep thinking that the behavior of some people in game, aka "Moar tears", are just your normal everyday nice guy. The only thing keeping these psychopaths from acting out more aggressively in real life is their bellies are full and their minds are entertained. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:00:00 -
[192] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:Knus'lar wrote:
You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.
Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children.
What kind of children are we talking about here? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:02:00 -
[193] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game. That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin. The point Ranger 1 is making is valid. Step out of your 1st world, plentifull food and resources point of view for 1 second and take a look around. Ever seen news video here in the US of Black Friday? This lady pepper sprayed shoppers so she could get something she wanted to buy that was in limited supply.That is just one real world example of exactly the kind of behavior we are all talking about. Look up more black friday tales and see how quickly people let loose with the crazy and this is in the USA. Want more examples of the crazy? How about these cops that shot victims after the Katrina hurricane hit New Orleans.This also happened in the USA. Am I opening everyones eyes yet? These are not isolated incidents of a few crackpot fringe group numpties. These are your neighbors. Your neighbors play video games and some of them may even play Eve. We are just a few meals away from anarchy. Keep thinking that the behavior of some people in game, aka "Moar tears", are just your normal everyday nice guy. The only thing keeping these psychopaths from acting out more aggressively in real life is their bellies are full and their minds are entertained.
Yeah I kinda doubt crazy soccer moms who are trying to get the latest ZuZu pet for little Timmy are Eve online players.
I don't even leave the house on Black Friday. I haven't seen a sale yet that beats careful year round shopping from Amazon: And I can have them wrap it and deliver it to my door. |
Ilandrin Yona
Allied Harvesting
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:30:00 -
[194] - Quote
Quote:THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!!
Here in lies what I believe may be the crux of the issue. For some people Eve (and other MMOs) are more than just games. They are virtual worlds in which to live virtual lives. These are the people who get so upset when bad stuff happens to them in game.
Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game. ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ilandrin_Yona |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:32:00 -
[195] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Alia Gon'die wrote:Knus'lar wrote:
You're wrong on this imo. People enjoy blowing up ships because its cathartic. People cry about losing ships because they get to attached to a game.
Clearly they enjoy blowing up spaceships because they are violent psychopaths who butcher kittens and eat the corpses of children. What kind of children are we talking about here?
The ones that taste good? (All of them) |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:33:00 -
[196] - Quote
Ilandrin Yona wrote:Quote:THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!! Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game.
Sucks to be them, I suppose. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:51:00 -
[197] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox. Perhaps you should consider that people would complain because, as has been pointed out about 5000 times in this thread already, there is a difference between real life and a video game. That would be the point you are missing... repeatedly... and by a wide margin.
However his first point sticks perfectly with average Eve player state of mind : "If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are..."
And there are a lot in this game that unfortunately don't really make difference with reality, should I remind you some kid's video with threats, or IG insults because you're German, Black, Chinese and so on? Should I also remind you some sad episode about fan fest 2012?
You might no want to see it or admit it, but it's there.
brb |
Syndrea Caedrion
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:57:00 -
[198] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox.
I love intellectually honest people who can see through all the BS straight down to the core. One of the best posts I've read in a long time. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
411
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:50:00 -
[199] - Quote
Ilandrin Yona wrote:Quote:THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!! Here in lies what I believe may be the crux of the issue. For some people Eve (and other MMOs) are more than just games. They are virtual worlds in which to live virtual lives. These are the people who get so upset when bad stuff happens to them in game. Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game.
Seek therapy. This isn't a troll post or a joke post, or me ******* with you.
If you are using Eve as a "Virtual world" to live out a "Virtual Life" to escape reality and it is "Not just a game to you" then you need to seek Therapy.
And bear in mind I say that knowing the standard American bias against therapy (Thanks Reagan). There is nothing wrong with getting therapy, and there is not a person on this earth so well adjusted throughout the entirety of their life that they couldn't benefit from talking with an impartial someone about their problems. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
411
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:52:00 -
[200] - Quote
Syndrea Caedrion wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox. I love intellectually honest people who can see through all the BS straight down to the core. One of the best posts I've read in a long time.
I think I'll wait till an accredited psychologist chimes in rather than assume "I'm in the military, i watched folk" guy is in any way correct in summing up the whole of the human psyche in one pat paragraph. Thanks. |
|
Ilandrin Yona
Allied Harvesting
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:58:00 -
[201] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Ilandrin Yona wrote:Quote:THIS IS A GAME, NOTHING MORE!!! Here in lies what I believe may be the crux of the issue. For some people Eve (and other MMOs) are more than just games. They are virtual worlds in which to live virtual lives. These are the people who get so upset when bad stuff happens to them in game. Respect their feelings or don't, but understand that for some Eve is not just a game. Seek therapy. This isn't a troll post or a joke post, or me ******* with you. If you are using Eve as a "Virtual world" to live out a "Virtual Life" to escape reality and it is "Not just a game to you" then you need to seek Therapy. And bear in mind I say that knowing the standard American bias against therapy (Thanks Reagan). There is nothing wrong with getting therapy, and there is not a person on this earth so well adjusted throughout the entirety of their life that they couldn't benefit from talking with an impartial someone about their problems.
While I don't doubt that there are some people who use virtual worlds as a means of escapism, I also think for some people a virtual world is an augmentation to the real world or an additional facet to the real world. If you see Eve as an extension of your world then it makes sense that you would have strong feelings for the things that go on in that virtual extension.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just pointing out how I think some people perceive online worlds. And why that leads to such real feelings.
... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ilandrin_Yona |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
416
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:04:00 -
[202] - Quote
It's just a game dude. It's meant for entertainment. Nothing more: nothing less. If it's not achieving entertainment: Stop playing. If it's causing actual anguish and harm: Really stop playing.
I mean honestly the people that get so worked up in this game that they threaten real life violence (I've read some good ones lately, the latest is some guys violent hate kill fantasy he wants to enact on mittens at Fanfest) then they are too invested and need to unplug.
I've been camped into a station. I've lost ships that made a simple mining barge loss look rather anemic in terms of cost and they weren't reimbursed either. Due to the fact that I'm a goon, and I play eve with goons I'm regularly the target of some of the nastiest personal smear campaigns you have ever seen.
Want to know how much sleep I lose over it?
None. When I log out of the game for the night, I'm fine. Oh occasionally there will be the twang of regret, but that is usually over something I did that was stupid like going afk and dieing to rats because I warped in to close then had to take an emergency poop. But even that doesn't lose me sleep. It's a game. I laugh it off.
Now street fighter on the other hand pisses me off. That game ******* cheats. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
636
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:08:00 -
[203] - Quote
I refuse to be boxed in by people who can't separate a game from reality. If my in-game actions that are within the eula and tos are causing someone real mental anguish, that is their problem, not mine. If I find someone that can't handle losing in a game, I just won't play with them anymore. Unfortunately you don't have that option in Eve. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:10:00 -
[204] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:I refuse to be boxed in by people who can't separate a game from reality. If my in-game actions that are within the eula and tos are causing someone real mental anguish, that is their problem, not mine. If I find someone that can't handle losing in a game, I just won't play with them anymore. Unfortunately you don't have that option in Eve. Didn't Gary Kasparov have a conniption fit when he was beaten by Deep Blue?
That dude needed to chill out, too!
This just in! Eve Online, Chess: Now just games! |
Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1380
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:12:00 -
[205] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:It's just a game dude. It's meant for entertainment. Nothing more: nothing less. If it's not achieving entertainment: Stop playing. If it's causing actual anguish and harm: Really stop playing.
I mean honestly the people that get so worked up in this game that they threaten real life violence (I've read some good ones lately, the latest is some guys violent hate kill fantasy he wants to enact on mittens at Fanfest) then they are too invested and need to unplug.
I've been camped into a station. I've lost ships that made a simple mining barge loss look rather anemic in terms of cost and they weren't reimbursed either. Due to the fact that I'm a goon, and I play eve with goons I'm regularly the target of some of the nastiest personal smear campaigns you have ever seen.
Want to know how much sleep I lose over it?
None. When I log out of the game for the night, I'm fine. Oh occasionally there will be the twang of regret, but that is usually over something I did that was stupid like going afk and dieing to rats because I warped in to close then had to take an emergency poop. But even that doesn't lose me sleep. It's a game. I laugh it off.
Now street fighter on the other hand pisses me off. That game ******* cheats.
You are so quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. SEXYBEEEE You don't know |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
416
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:I refuse to be boxed in by people who can't separate a game from reality. If my in-game actions that are within the eula and tos are causing someone real mental anguish, that is their problem, not mine. If I find someone that can't handle losing in a game, I just won't play with them anymore. Unfortunately you don't have that option in Eve. Didn't Gary Kasparov have a conniption fit when he was beaten by Deep Blue? That dude needed to chill out, too! This just in! Eve Online, Chess: Now just games!
I have no problem with the statement that he needed to chill. |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:19:00 -
[207] - Quote
stupid forums |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:20:00 -
[208] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:It's just a game dude. It's meant for entertainment. Nothing more: nothing less. If it's not achieving entertainment: Stop playing. If it's causing actual anguish and harm: Really stop playing.
Yeah you dont wanna do something when RPing that attempts to get someone to hurt themselves IRL |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:00:00 -
[209] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Syndrea Caedrion wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:To be frankly honest here, a person's "Integrity" is measured by how they conduct themselves when nobody is looking. This game, and many aspects of the internet, are anonymous. This allows folks to act out as they want, without fear of consequences. You are as you imagine you are... Those who find enjoyment in ruining the day for others, and generally being a "sociopath" in game, is simply revealing their true inner nature. If they were to find themselves in an equally unconsequential situation, I expect that they would act out in real life as they do in game. Their only "restraint" if they are honest, is self-preservation. If they saw that they could gank and kill, without a danger of being caught, or permanently killed, they would not only do it, they would enjoy the thrill of it.
I speak from real world experience from being in the military and observing human nature. If we remove that thin veneer of civilization, we quickly find out who the animals are...
We also find out quickly who the whiny care bears are when a suicide bomber walks into your local restaurant... I don't expect to see many folks in the neighborhood making excuses for the bomber, or referring to a sandbox. I love intellectually honest people who can see through all the BS straight down to the core. One of the best posts I've read in a long time. I think I'll wait till an accredited psychologist chimes in rather than assume "I'm in the military, i watched folk" guy is in any way correct in summing up the whole of the human psyche in one pat paragraph. Thanks.
I have to say i agree. I dont think anyone is really fit to make statements on the whole of human psyche to be honest with you. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:04:00 -
[210] - Quote
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:It's just a game dude. It's meant for entertainment. Nothing more: nothing less. If it's not achieving entertainment: Stop playing. If it's causing actual anguish and harm: Really stop playing.
Yeah you dont wanna do something when RPing that attempts to get someone to hurt themselves IRL And what, exactly, led you to this incredibly insightful conclusion?
Oh, somebody who wasn't playing Eve at the time and also wasn't RP'ing. He was ****-talking about Eve while inebriated by CCP-provided beverages on CCP-unmoderated live stream.
Which CCP then retroactively said is tantamount to their forums.
Which are, in fact, moderated.
So they weren't at all.
But we're over it. |
|
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:14:00 -
[211] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote: I have to say i agree. I dont think anyone is really fit to make statements on the whole of human psyche to be honest with you.
I mean I hate to be a **** to a serviceman and all, but "I'm in the military, I know these things" is probably ranked pretty high up there on the dumb things I've read on these forums when it comes to understanding human psychology, how the ID works, etc etc.
I mean imagine if any other person that wasn't protected by the gravitas of going to war had said that? He'd have been laughed out of the room.
"I work at the food court, I watched people... this is how people are..."
"I toiled away at the carwash. Rich peoples cars. Poor peoples cars. I've seen them all. I know how they behave."
I mean support our military ooh rah etc etc, but no matter how you butter it up he's basically been a member of one pack of poor folk, shooting at another pack of poor folk in the name of duty to some assholes who don't give a **** about them. When running the gamut of the human condition he's seen one of the nastier extremes sure. But that doesn't imply knowledge to any of the others.
Whatever, **** it. It sounds like I'm trying to drag the person down instead of the idea, which isn't quite right. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:16:00 -
[212] - Quote
When I have questions about human psychology and well-reasoned views of the human race, I immediately turn to recently returned war veterans. They sure are a stable group of folks known for their lack of mental illnesses! |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
243
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: Seek therapy. This isn't a troll post or a joke post, or me ******* with you.
If you are using Eve as a "Virtual world" to live out a "Virtual Life" to escape reality and it is "Not just a game to you" then you need to seek Therapy.
But didn't you know? - EVE IS REAL!!!
All you're saying is "you're playing the game wrong" - but you are wrong because EVE is an MMO ARRR PEEE GEEE. Lots of things in the game, and the marketing, suggest that CCP is trying to attract at least some players who will get immersed in the virtual world. I'm one of those myself. Sometimes, EVE feels real, and I feel like I'm a space pilot. I'm immersed just like I would be in a book or a film, and everyday reality has receded into the background, with virtual reality to the fore.
That is just a form of entertainment.
However, if you were to say I'd be an idiot to let myself get really upset about loss in the game (beyond momentarily wanting to throw my computer out the window sometimes ) then you'd be right.
Anyone who comes to EVE expecting a pure PvE experience where they can just goof off is definitely playing the wrong game, even if their primary interest is immersion, lore, rp, etc.
And also (again, speaking on the side of EVE's "harshness") EVE is a game in which the danger of being violenced, and the necessity to guard against that, is part of the immersion. |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:35:00 -
[214] - Quote
I too need to wait for someone else to inform me when "people are mean" and am unable to come to a rational conclusion based on years of experience living among people. As a matter of fact, just yesterday, some guy was hitting me repeatedly about the head. It was decided that both he and I would wait for some accredited 3rd party with a college degree to tell us whether or not what he was doing is wrong.
True story! When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:42:00 -
[215] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:I too need to wait for someone else to inform me when "people are mean" and am unable to come to a rational conclusion based on years of experience living among people. As a matter of fact, just yesterday, some guy was hitting me repeatedly about the head. It was decided that both he and I would wait for some accredited 3rd party with a college degree to tell us whether or not what he was doing is wrong.
True story!
While you are spot on, there are still people looking at the world through colored glasses and are convinced everything is as they see it.
Also, the 3rd party college degree would just cite what someone else said |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
429
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:43:00 -
[216] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:I too need to wait for someone else to inform me when "people are mean" and am unable to come to a rational conclusion based on years of experience living among people. As a matter of fact, just yesterday, some guy was hitting me repeatedly about the head. It was decided that both he and I would wait for some accredited 3rd party with a college degree to tell us whether or not what he was doing is wrong.
True story!
Now apply that to a video game. |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:58:00 -
[217] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Olleybear wrote:I too need to wait for someone else to inform me when "people are mean" and am unable to come to a rational conclusion based on years of experience living among people. As a matter of fact, just yesterday, some guy was hitting me repeatedly about the head. It was decided that both he and I would wait for some accredited 3rd party with a college degree to tell us whether or not what he was doing is wrong.
True story! Now apply that to a video game.
Me: Pew Pew Pew Him: Pew Pew Pew One of us pops. Both of us: GF
Conclusion: Neither person is a numpty
or
Him: Mining laser buzzing noise Someone Else: Pew Pew Pew Him pops Someone Else: Moar Tears! You deserved it! You mad bro? Someone Else: Rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat......
Conclusion: Someone Else is getting kicks out of ruining someones day and is a numpty.
Of course, without a college degree in psychology, my thinking he is a numpty is suspect as the piece of paper a person spent lots of money on it is obviously "more right". When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Aerethir El-Kharisti
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 04:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
Just because people are ganking carebears, it does not make them sociopaths. There is a whole array of phenomena and symptoms that have to get together, before one can put the diagnosis of sociopathy out there. So yes, it bothers me. People should bloody tank already, makes ganking so much harder.
With great power comes great electricity bill. |
Stalafur
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 04:33:00 -
[219] - Quote
This game is where people -mostly- release their inner douche to reap mayhem and chaos, while in the process of making stupid amounts of isk of course. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
743
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 04:57:00 -
[220] - Quote
Sociapath? Psychopath?
"Silence! I kill you!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg
|
|
Serena Serene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 05:17:00 -
[221] - Quote
First: I admit to not having read the whole thread, just skimmed through it.
Second: I don't know about sociopaths, but I -do- think people who act like an ass on the internet, and enjoy it, tend to be assholes in "real life" as well. Maybe they don't show it there, maybe they do, I don't know. Sometimes it's honestly kind of scary for me to see how many people can totally lose it on forums or in games.
That said, some examples: - Ganking some innocent whatever for profit is not being an *******, it's playing the game. - Ganking some innocent whatever without profit for fun is not being an *******, it's playing the game. - But doing the above -repeatedly- to the same person, pursuing them, is being an ass, in my opinion. - Doing the above as form of revenge after being gravely insulted is either good rp or punishment, to a degree. - Insulting and talking crap after a fight, no matter the outcome, is, depending on the level of insults, something between amusing and disturbing. - Doing the above in response to experiencing it for yourself is not something I'd do, but somehow understandable (to a degree).
Well, I'm probably starting to get boring at that point, so let me try to summarize:
There are some things that make you an ******* in my opinion, or even disturb me, most notably when you genuinely enjoy distress and unhappiness of others without being provoked by them (and even then if it reaches high enough levels like going after a person for weeks even if they've obviously learned their lesson).
Playing the game to have fun destroying other people's spaceship because you enjoy the hunt and because you can.. does not. It is this kind of game, and making even "high security" areas more dangerous by actions like this makes it more interesting to me (who, so far, is a high-sec dweller).
It does bother me when people honestly think they can diagnose others of a mental illness over the internet. Since most of the people who say such a thing usually don't really know what it means they said, though, I don't care. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 05:26:00 -
[222] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:In the RW...
I am actually a very calm and collected person... although still a geek.
When people bug me at work I simple tell them, because of what you did or did not do, somebody in EVE online is going hate me today.
Does that make a sociopath? I would rather vent by blowing things up in make believe than show up at the office with a shotgun.
Funny Story... I told my co-workers the only thing keeping me from showing up at work with a Shotgun and blowing all you away is my ability to go online and shoot people. I got nervous laughter which i found extremely funny.
They pay for my internet connection.
Showing up at work with a shotgun makes one a sociopath (unless you're a cop/military and the shotgun is for "official business"). Blowing up ships in Eve doesn't, just makes you a gamer. Now, a sociopath playing Eve was already a sociopath to begin with. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
95
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Posted - 2012.06.08 05:31:00 -
[223] - Quote
I have a lot of anger and frustration that I have to work through, due to my current health issues. I tend to get pretty moody, depressed, and short tempered.
So when I log into a ******* game that lets me ******* shoot the **** out of a bunch of *******, I stay docked in a station and manufacture crap to sell to others.
It's very relaxing.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1005
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:01:00 -
[224] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I have a lot of anger and frustration that I have to work through, due to my current health issues. I tend to get pretty moody, depressed, and short tempered.
So when I log into a ******* game that lets me ******* shoot the **** out of a bunch of *******, I stay docked in a station and manufacture crap to sell to others.
It's very relaxing. Hm, well I guess you aren't making supercaps then :(. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1603
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Interesting article on sociopaths. |
Acot Voth
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
All humans have 2 things in common, fighting and f***ing. It's in our nature to fight, give us an environment where we need to fight and watch how quickly even the most non violent people turn to violence. You ask are PVPers sociopaths? No, they are just human. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7776
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:39:00 -
[227] - Quote
Well, that would explain why miners get so upset when you try to teach them EVE mechanicsGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:40:00 -
[228] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I see this quite a bit in the rage threads lately. From my perspective, i see a lot of carebears mud flinging, and calling anyone who ganks or does pvp a sociopath. Because apparently only a sociopath would do such a thing. But really, it just seems like a vain attempt at taking the moral high ground.
For real, do some people honestly believe people act the same in game as they do in real life?
"Someone in a video game where the main purpose is blowing up each others spaceships blew up my spaceship! THEY'RE MENTALLY UNSTABLE SOCIOPATHS!!!111"
No carebears, you are the mentally unstable |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:50:00 -
[229] - Quote
According to that EVERYONE is a Sociopath.
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Betrinna Cantis
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:59:00 -
[230] - Quote
Everyone in this game is a "PVP'er" whether anyone likes it or not. It is a "Person vs Person" game not matter what you do. I you chat in local, you pvp by definition because you interacted with another....wait for it... ANOTHER PERSON! |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1603
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:59:00 -
[231] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:According to that EVERYONE is a Sociopath.
To say that 4 percent of the population consists of sociopaths might be inaccurate. I have read many times that it was one percent.
I think sociopathy is more like a spectrum in the same way there is for autism or HFA/Aspergers. (That's just an observation). |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 16:23:00 -
[232] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:Now to go browse webMD and wikipedia to self-diagnose yourself with Aspergers.
And if you play EVE and not just the forums you can do the same considering the repetitious grind nature of it, be it PvE or PvP.
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Kaijusan
Austro-Hungarian Empire D0GS OF WAR
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 16:39:00 -
[233] - Quote
Its a game.
Pixels, thats all it is.
Eve is a diversion, entertainment.
Nothing you gain or lose in game is real.
So in the end, who cares.
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