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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.22 02:49:00 -
[1]
Preliminary Dominion Patch Notes
So I was reading all that stuff and while it's largely meh I found myself irked by a certain fact: The lowering of skills reqs for certain tasks. Most of them I personally could care less about because the bar wasn't lowered much or are industry oriented (a subject I know little about). I am however quite familiar with thermodynamics and the "specialization" and situational based usage of it. I was not to happy to read that the energy management 5 requirement is being reduced to lvl 3.
I talked to some of my mates and said exactly what I assumed CCP would do this for: Making it easier for new players to catch with older ones. I really don't like that whole idea especially because the only factor in SP/ability growth is time it self. Obviously player skill grows at different rates, but when it comes to skill training time reduction it kinda feels like older/specialized players are getting a bit robbed. As I type this I do realize that I sound exactly like many other threads about penalizing older player advantages.
The reason I post this is because I want to know what the rest of the masses of eve-o forum warriors think of such changes as this: making it easier for new players to close the gap and catch older players. As far as I'm concerned I just see at CCP slowly subtly catering to the more mindless players. I do not like making eve easier, if anything its too easy atm.
Tl;Dr - What do you folks think about reducing skills that lead to character specialization?
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Gunsnroses
Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.09.22 02:56:00 -
[2]
I took a 2-3 year break from eve, recently came back in june.
I think thermodynamics and the abilities that go with it are the nicest additions to the game in my time off.
As someone who just had to train energy managment 5, i moaned and whined. However i feel as if some things in this game should still require time, and shouldn't be handed to you on day 4.
Noobs can catch up quickly if they choose to specialize, all these skill changes do is make it even easier for WoW players to migrate to this game.
Good for CCP and noobs. Bad for the current paying customers.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.09.22 02:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 22/09/2009 02:58:45 Thermodynamics is a very cool addition to EVE that requires you pay more attention in combat. Also, it is required to use active tanks to their full potential.
I don't agree with the other changes, but Thermodynamics should be somewhat accessible IMO, especially since the prerequisite skill is a great thing to have at V anyway.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.22 02:59:00 -
[4]
You realise, i hope. That Energy management is one of the VERY FIRST THINGS you get as high as you can after learning skills. Its one of THE most important skills in Eve. Are you seriously complaining that you trained THIS SKILL to level five ONLY for Thermodynamics? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:04:00 -
[5]
I'm a relatively new player and don't have a lot of experience of thermodynamics, but I do have the skillbook ready as it's been mentioned by more experienced members of my corp as being a very useful skill to know.
This benefits me but in some ways it does devalue it a little for me as it's supposed to be something of an achievement to have made it to that point.
What I wonder is this: by giving access to the skill with easier pre reqs, does CCP perhaps hope to have more inexperienced people using this and maybe damaging their mods to the point where they are no longer repairable, thus craating a more subtle isk sink?
All those players eager to get the chance to over heat their guns and blowing them to hell cos they haven't quite figured out other aspects of the game yet. You never know.
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Doppleganger
Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:14:00 -
[6]
Lowering some of these skill reqs doesn't really bother me. After playing the game for 6+ yrs a lot of the skills I have left to train are to lvl 5s anyway. Making things easier for the newer players by dropping some of the skill reqs for some of this stuff is good in my opinion... its not like I'm going to whine over training the higher lvls up anyway since thats all I seem to have to do anymore.
If it gets more of the newer players out to fight and die... who am I to complain.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Blane Xero You realise, i hope. That Energy management is one of the VERY FIRST THINGS you get as high as you can after learning skills. Its one of THE most important skills in Eve. Are you seriously complaining that you trained THIS SKILL to level five ONLY for Thermodynamics?
When I started eve Thermo was a long way off still and I made my isk by missioning in a domi with one thing in mind: the ishtar.
I warriored up myself a fantastic little cap stable ishtar boat. It did not require enery management 5 so I didn't train it for quite some time. I ended up training energy management 5 after thermo, but not so i could train up thermo. I guess I could blame the people who were teaching me eve at the time - Dang, blane xero didn't raise me
However, on a more general grounds I wanted this thread to be about CCP lowering the bar to more specialized or higher "levels" of combat performance. Thermo is more of an example than a single reason to make me upset.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:22:00 -
[8]
I think CCP may be reevaluating their business model to some degree, there have been some changes such as the Unholy Rage bannings, they don't completely solve the problem, but how long have players been talking about the macro miners and saying CCP would never do anything.
I think it may be like one of those bands that is really cool while it's got cult status, but perhaps loses it's appeal when they become really popular.
This may be just them dipping their toe in the water to see if they can encourage more people to take the dive into more action oriented activities and give the folks in low sec some fun by allowing more people access to a few toys a little earlier in their careers.
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Capt Gold
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:48:00 -
[9]
Will be more noobs who think they are good....which is good for everyone...except them of course.
Face it, the game needs fresh meat to expand, and more people mean more targets, more buyers...
and, more idiots to block in Jita local.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.09.22 03:49:00 -
[10]
After the first seconds of "WTF" feeling, I'm really okay with this change. But I think it should be lowered to level IV instead.
And while they are at it, WHY not make drugs more popular?
Manufacturing drugs should be more profitable (I don't do it, but I know people that do) so that it gets cheaper.
And there are two skills related to drugs (besides biology) that are only obtainable by luck, or hundreds million ISK.
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.22 04:06:00 -
[11]
Interestingly, I read an article recently that kind of ties drugs and low sec together, an idea that sounds kind of interesting and would make low sec a bit more fun by the sounds of it. The idea really starts on the second page of the arricle, the first is mainly preamble.
The Corruption Proposal
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Sebastien LaForge
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.22 04:11:00 -
[12]
son of a ***** I just finished EM lvl 5 today!
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.09.22 04:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Blane Xero You realise, i hope. That Energy management is one of the VERY FIRST THINGS you get as high as you can after learning skills. Its one of THE most important skills in Eve. Are you seriously complaining that you trained THIS SKILL to level five ONLY for Thermodynamics?
really? id have it at 4 if it wernt for thermo, i dont really missionrun and pvp is pretty much all injected these days, id train it for logis and caps but i wouldnt call it essential
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wickedpheonix
Caldari Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
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Posted - 2009.09.22 05:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: arbiter reborn
Originally by: Blane Xero You realise, i hope. That Energy management is one of the VERY FIRST THINGS you get as high as you can after learning skills. Its one of THE most important skills in Eve. Are you seriously complaining that you trained THIS SKILL to level five ONLY for Thermodynamics?
really? id have it at 4 if it wernt for thermo, i dont really missionrun and pvp is pretty much all injected these days, id train it for logis and caps but i wouldnt call it essential
Doesn't matter if PVP is all injectors - by that reasoning you would train the barest minimum of cap skills because you can just inject more cap charges, right??? WRONG - you want to get AS MUCH CAP AS POSSIBLE without resorting to injectors (which IMO should not be in the game). There's only 2 cap-only skills, get them to 5 ASAP after learning skills are done.
In any case, the OP is talking like EM 5 is worthless. Even if you disagree that it's a useful skill because of your super-holy cap injectors, it's not friggin' worthless.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.09.22 05:54:00 -
[15]
Quote:
I'm a relatively new player and don't have a lot of experience of thermodynamics, but I do have the skillbook ready as it's been mentioned by more experienced members of my corp as being a very useful skill to know.
This benefits me but in some ways it does devalue it a little for me as it's supposed to be something of an achievement to have made it to that point.
What I wonder is this: by giving access to the skill with easier pre reqs, does CCP perhaps hope to have more inexperienced people using this and maybe damaging their mods to the point where they are no longer repairable, thus craating a more subtle isk sink?
All those players eager to get the chance to over heat their guns and blowing them to hell cos they haven't quite figured out other aspects of the game yet. You never know.
Pretty much any overheating beyond a cycle or two creates module damage, which is an ISK sink (you either buy nanite repair paste or you pay for in-station repairs).
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.22 05:58:00 -
[16]
lame
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.22 05:58:00 -
[17]
dropping requirements is good. but make those L5s mean something.
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Feebis Gruina
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Feebis Gruina on 22/09/2009 11:44:44 Ok, lets do a list.
Thermodynamics - just done EM to V, but thats ok, thats a nice skill.
Archeo - did survey V just for that skill, about 2 months ago.
Missile Bombardment V - did that just for bomb deployment about 2 weeks ago.
Seriously, WTF. I just wasted ****load of SP for nothing.
Thanks ccp.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:53:00 -
[19]
Its a screw the old timers - we have dust , patch
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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xc0n
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:56:00 -
[20]
Note to self: Log into main account, change skill from energy management 5 to something else...
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Xanath Fireheart
Under Heavy Fire
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:58:00 -
[21]
I think the only one I'm really bothered by is the new proposed reqs for Archaeology.
The other skills still give a good advantage having them at level 5, but being able to scan ships and belts a bit faster isn't really worth the extra time put into skill training.
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Clementina
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:59:00 -
[22]
I trained Survey 5 for Archeology, Missile Bombardment 5 for bomb deployment, and Energy Management 5 for Thermodynamics. You know the difference between you and me? I am not whining like a recently ganked carebear. This change is good for the newbies and doesn't really hurt the vets, except those vets who expected to simply be better than all noobs without work. Maybe if you want to carry yourself as a 'vet' you should stop crying and do something productive.
Or maybe not, I've chosen to harvest these tears everybody, so carry on.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:02:00 -
[23]
Some of the changes seem to be made specifically to make low skill alts more useful for - suicide ganking (thermodynamics for increase damage for a few seconds) - ninja salvaging (lower skills for salvaging)
Probably it is only paranoia , but paranoia is a useful trait in EVE.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:02:00 -
[24]
Moved from General Discussion.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Clementina I like to bend over as long as it makes someone happy.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Archa
Caldari Bushwhackers Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Clementina I trained Survey 5 for Archeology, Missile Bombardment 5 for bomb deployment, and Energy Management 5 for Thermodynamics. You know the difference between you and me? I am not whining like a recently ganked carebear. This change is good for the newbies and doesn't really hurt the vets, except those vets who expected to simply be better than all noobs without work. Maybe if you want to carry yourself as a 'vet' you should stop crying and do something productive.
Or maybe not, I've chosen to harvest these tears everybody, so carry on.
well said. Keep the tears flowing everybody
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LordSwift
Caldari SWG-RoNaN-BloOdFiN
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:14:00 -
[27]
the only good thing that comes out of this is i can train that dusty archlogical skill i got cluttering up my hanger now.
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xc0n
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Clementina I trained Survey 5 for Archeology, Missile Bombardment 5 for bomb deployment, and Energy Management 5 for Thermodynamics. You know the difference between you and me? I am not whining like a recently ganked carebear. This change is good for the newbies and doesn't really hurt the vets, except those vets who expected to simply be better than all noobs without work. Maybe if you want to carry yourself as a 'vet' you should stop crying and do something productive.
Or maybe not, I've chosen to harvest these tears everybody, so carry on.
I have to agree. I have avoided training a few of these skills only until recently, as I did not find the excessive time necessary to train the prereqs justifiable. With the exception of Survey 5, these skills are still quite useful to those who already trained them, so there really isn't much to complain about.
I just find it a bit humorous that 2 of my accounts are currently training these level 5 skills that will no longer be required post-patch.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sebastien LaForge son of a ***** I just finished EM lvl 5 today!
Grats that's a good skill.
You can never be too rich or too thin or have too much cap.
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Kazacy
Caldari Cugir SA - Arms FACTORY
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:26:00 -
[30]
I trained energy management and energy system operation to lvl 5 as soon as i can after decent learning,cruiser lvl 4 and engineering, electronics lvl 5. It's very important for every combat char (except drake pilots but drake it's an exception anyway) to have cap skills at lvl 5. My advice for new players it's to train those skills at least to lvl 4 and they will train to 5 when they see the results anyway.
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