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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.22 17:36:00 -
[1]
"only through a series of repeated failures do some learn the true value of their alliance"
The have been several internal communiques within Sylph Alliance recently, which have led some Gallente researchers to ponder the uncomfortable position of some within Sylph who outwardly claim competence, but for whom reality regularly strikes down that assertion.
Here is an example of one such communique:
Quote:
Hail Sylph Allaince!
This mail is being sent to inform all pilots that where involved in roaming gangs or Home defense that you all did an outstanding job of cleaning our space yesterday. As a long standing sylph fleet member and alliance investor it was nice to see the actions of our pilots joining with our coalition efforts to keep our space clean of reds. All of you who put your pods and ships at risk i must say you did an outstanding job at showing you wont put up with the oppression form our red counterparts in the south. Please continue to be active in fleets and enjoy the kaik we all know and love. Sylph proved that we are still a force to be reconned with and will continue to be so in the future.
Great Job Guy and Gals this was a good site to see and the executives all have been talking about the wonderful job the FC's new and old did in the numerous ops that took place.
Unfortunately, the pilots within Sylph alliance recognise this not to be the case, as evidenced in the following examples taken from the time of this communique:
Combat Example A Combat Example B Combat Example C Combat Example D
I would like to show you an example where Sylph alliance have performed well, for the sake of balance. Alas, no such example exists in the records that I have.
The result of this uncomfortable cognitive dissonance is an exodus of any pilots and corporations with any trace of self-awareness, and a crumbling and ineffective leadership. Membership has declined from a peak of over 1000, to a mere 400.
The once populous and active Sylph alliance is now a drifting husk, of this there can be little doubt. Membership has dwindled, and organised resistance against Ushra'Khan has proven futile and is now at an end.
Despite the cushion of the slavers of Providence, this alliance is reaching the only sensible natural conclusion of its evolutionary history. Be assured, we shall not rest, not until we have delivered what we promised Sylph Alliance since their betrayal many years ago.
We have not forgotten. We shall not forgive.
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AKA 'Bitter Dog'
Failing at everything he does in EvE since '05 |
Exie
Phantasmal Collective Wicked Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.22 21:25:00 -
[2]
LOL, I like battle report B... Haagbard is a hostile. LOVE IT!! Of course being a bit delusional is a requirement to fly for Sylph. E...
We be Jammin' |
Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.09.23 05:02:00 -
[3]
I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from.
If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own.
You obviously didn't want that space anyways.
This is where you fall down. |
Wotlankor
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 06:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Graelyn A derailing and incoherent communication that had nothing to do with the broadcast by Butter Dog
However, I am always amused to see how some pilots seems utter incapable of seeing the difference between whiping the floor with ONE enemy entity and taking on the entirety of Providence. Honor binds CVA to protect Sylph no matter how incapable they are.
Now back to Sylphs so claimed victorious fleets and battles. If the criteria of a victorious battle is to have 2-3 ships left then by all means Sylph is winning almost every battle.
I do wonder what they consider a lost fight...
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Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 07:52:00 -
[5]
We really should start cleaning up HED-GP...
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Wotlankor
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Codo Yagari We really should start cleaning up HED-GP...
What does that have to do with Sylph claiming victory in a series of battles with 2-3 ships left and their tail firmly between their legs?
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Graelyn
You obviously didn't want that space anyways.
Correct. Maybe you'd like to check where we have claimed space to understand why we wouldn't want IS-R etc.
We also know that deploying capitals to push them out their space would simply mean 400-odd pilots from Providence coming along for the fun of blowing them up.
Our current strategy means they die anyway, without giving you and yours a chance to destroy our capital assets. Seems to be a good strategy to date.
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~bitter dog~
etc |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:34:00 -
[8]
I'd just like to echo Graelyn's sentiments.
We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space.
The question is, how reliable are Butter Dog's assertions?
Finding out is easy - one just has to wait. If he's right, then Sylph will be collapsing within the next month or so. If they don't collapse, then Butter Dog and his braying cronies will be revealed as simple blowers of hot air. Once again.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ombey
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space.
So we have to capture Sylph space to put huge pressure on them? Sylph have shrunk from approximately 1300 members to their current ~430 or so. Of course, we had nothing to do with that at all, as we never uncloak, right?
Taking space hastens their demise, but we are in no rush.
2d EveMaps|My blog
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 09:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
We've been hearing this anti-Sylph propaganda from U'K for a little while now, and yet I've not heard any reports of U'K capturing any Sylph space.
Amusing. When have we stated that we wish to capture their space? Never, because we don't.
What we have clearly stated is that we wish to kill them, and we do not need to capture their space to do that. Rather, we simply need to control their access to Empire and make their 0.0 space a living hell.
The results speak for themselves. 800 fewer members. 3 changes of leadership within 3 months. And the destruction of their assets at will. Will they collpase within a month? We make no such arbitrary statements.
The road to their destruction has been over two years long. We have the patience to see it through.
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~bitter dog~
etc |
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 11:42:00 -
[11]
In space as on galnet - sylph is not able to defend themself
in space as on galnet - their masters feel addressed instead.
"you have to take their space, oderwise you havent achieved anything" is a rather naive, if not desperate message and speaks tales about the CVA mindsets itself.
From freedom fighters perspective, i just need to evac those who wish to be free - and leave the burden of logistics now, with less workers to do the jobs, to those of sylph.
did it never occur to you graelyn et al - that it is a viable strategy to leave the pain of claiming vast amount of space with a skeleton crew and keep everything fuelled with the enemy? i do think this will speed up our succsess rather than the opposite of it.
Yeah well.. i was never impressed with the level of education Imperial Academies delivers to Amarr officers....
recruiting -forum
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Kura Accipter
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 12:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Graelyn I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from.
If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own.
You obviously didn't want that space anyways.
Sylph will die just fine without us needing to conquer their worthless space, the Graelyn I remember would see that clearly.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:39:00 -
[13]
Whilst I'm relatively sure that at this stage CVA would likely let Sylph die at u'k hand in a full frontal assault, we find it far more amusing to slice them to ribbons one slither of alliance at a time. For a good few weeks now there has been more isk made by u'k ratting in sylph space than by sylph themselves.
I think that if CVA wants to remove Sylph they'll have to stop waiting for u'k to do their dirty work so they can take the space back and just get on with their land grab and accept the fact that people will see them as the aggressors (and rightly so!)
Sylph alliance, you are clearly not going to be saved by CVA and the fact that you can't defend ANY of your space even with support is embarassing. I can count on one hand the number of pilots withing Sylph that are willing to even try to defend your own space. Even when a provi bloc gang makes the effort to come and defend your space, you sit idly by, hoping others will do the fighting for you.
You'd do better looking to sell your space on the quiet to some one at this stage. At least then you'd get something out of it.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 14:08:00 -
[14]
Quote: With CFHT's departure (and thus presumably kueen1's) what is the new alliance structure and leadership? I don't know if I have missed a meeting but it has been very quiet in terms of info lately.
Quote: http://sylph.mmotec.net/killboard/?a=losses
Why we have so many losts in empire UK is funny about this and we are lost our faces in this dammed war ! Mates we are a nullsec Alliance and not a highsec Alliance !
Since one need not be surprised if we do not have people in the Fleets and Providence all laughing at us and also we need not wonder, too, that we can not defend our space !
My view of things!
**** out
I do my best to get my words in english....
helping my brothers in sylph voice there fustration to avoid geting kicked by unfair and opresive rules
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Grr
Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:11:00 -
[15]
There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members.
Quantity does not equal quality.
Just look at Ushra'Khan now.
Do not assume the end is near for Sylph.
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members.
Quantity does not equal quality.
Just look at Ushra'Khan now.
Do not assume the end is near for Sylph.
Even at its darkest days, the U'K had effective leadership and fleet commanders, and continued guerrila campaigns from Curse.
No sensible pilot would claim the same thing would happen to Sylph if they lost their space.
There is no leadership. There is no quality. ----------
~bitter dog~
etc |
Exie
Phantasmal Collective Wicked Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.23 15:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members.
Quantity does not equal quality.
Just look at Ushra'Khan now.
Do not assume the end is near for Sylph.
I would also say that the Ushra'Khan of that day and age was a bit different then they are now, with their "defeat" they were given a new focus that allowed them to survive that membership loss, and to rebuild with a goal and a drive. The alliance name of Sylph "may" live on, however they are going to have to find focus and the balls to kick out the pathetic from their ranks. Which, I think may reduce their number to less than 50.
Also, U'K is wanting to drag this on, it is far more fun to watch. They hope the end is not near. E...
We be Jammin' |
Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Graelyn on 23/09/2009 17:14:37
Originally by: Kura Accipter
Originally by: Graelyn I am always amused to see Ushra'khan belittle someone that they cannot seem to manage to take any territory from.
If they are in such bad shape, why can't you seem to close the deal? Performance anxiety? No one cares about claims on a forum, power is measured by what you own.
You obviously didn't want that space anyways.
Sylph will die just fine without us needing to conquer their worthless space, the Graelyn I remember would see that clearly.
Nonsense. Such short sightedness has guided your path for a long time.
You see, your current Alliance IS one of MANY who exist as proof against your own theory.
Originally by: Admiral Grr There was a time a few years ago the Ushra'Khan alliance lost their space, many corps left and the alliance turned into a drifting husk of what it once was too. For a while the alliance had less than 400 members. Quantity does not equal quality. Just look at Ushra'Khan now.
The ONLY thing that matters is WILL to survive. If it remains intact, then repeatedly wounding the prey without finishing it off is the recipe for creating a monster.
If Sylph's will to survive collapses, then your tactics, unwise as they be, will have been successful.
If it survives, if you cannot find the strength to land the true killing blow, if you cannot remove the resources that allow them to replenish themselves and their forces, then you will have sown the seeds of your own despair for years to come, and they will have you to thank as the catalyst of evolution. A creature born of nothing but abuse becomes a terror, tough as tungsten, frightening to behold.
I can't say for sure that is what will happen with Sylph. They have to possess the sterner stuff, the Will to Endure. But the tactics you employ allow for it, and to consider it a preferable policy, to decide that it is the best path you can take, is folly.
I speak from experience. You know full well what the old AM went through, and the fearsome entity those events made them into. They were attacked in ways none else ever were at that time, complete ruin followed by every enemy it ever had falling upon them at once for years at a time. The will to survive became the steel of a sword that sheared our foes into pieces, to the complete disbelief of all, and in the end they were triumphant against ALL who stood against them. I wonder if you still remember any of that before you took tail and ran, removing yet another impurity from the steel...
You and I have seen these truths come to fruition even before that, in ancient times past...calculated lessons you seem to have forgotten in favor of aggressive tribal thinking. Your chosen compatriots seem to have rubbed off on you.
Directly affecting and destroying the WILL to survive...is an art that I hope remains forever beyond the reach of the Ushra'Khan, for in the end what organisation in their entire history, can they claim to have ever destroyed once and for all?
This is where you fall down. |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:34:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sapphrine on 23/09/2009 17:34:51 Sylph's current morale is certainly affected by U'K constantly harassing them. I'm fairly certain we're quite capable of destroying their morale and will to keep going just fine without hitting their tower with dreads in an obvious way that the rest of the bloc could actually help them.
We kill Sylph towers just fine when we feel inclined. It is pretty hard to claim that sylph are actually making any money from the huge amount of infrastructure they currently have down as they have very little moon mining left intact and are often barely able to get into their own space let alone rat or mine it for the worth.
The fact that Sylph are now more active in empire is telling of the direction this 0.0 entity is going.
Owning space does not automatically mean profit. :)
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Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:56:00 -
[20]
As much as I hate to admit it, it seems that for once Ushra'Khan may have a point. Though it is tempting to believe they're blowing smoke, the lack of contradicting evidence (Besides 'not claiming space', as we all know that UK is much better at guerrilla tactics than they are at holding their own space: There's little reason for them to set up operations which can then be taken down by a dedicated prov fleet) seems to indicate that CVA's best course is to simply buy the Sylph Alliance's space from them so that SA can retain some dignity and CVA can gain a little more territory.
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Calypso's Wrath
Mad Bombers Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:28:00 -
[21]
Pilot: CalypsoÆs Wrath Ship Class: Strategic Loki Class cruiser, The ôLookie here2ö Location: Classified, presumed in his home system of 3kb.
After the last week of defending my system (3kb û I know AM thinks they own it, but we know who has control, donÆt we?) from the infestation that is Sylphilis, I am disappointed by the general lack of courage with has been displayed by the locals. Battleships engaging, fighting aligned with shielded warp cores, warping out when the going gets rough (good trick btw, impressive use of close range Battleships, next time fit damage mods instead of so much tank you might get me)
I wonder who CVA will put in Sylphs place when this failure is complete.
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Graelyn
You see, your current Alliance IS one of MANY who exist as proof against your own theory.
Please name all the alliances who have lost all their space and come back stronger. I can only think of two - Red Alliance, and Ushra'Khan.
Every other alliance I can think of who has lost all their space either disbanded, or is a shadow of their former self. You somehow think Sylph can survive such a trauma? The truth is they can barely survive an empire wardec and some cloakers in their space.
You are either deluded or playing the fool. Which is it? ----------
~bitter dog~
etc |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:36:00 -
[23]
Thank you for your kind words Grr.
I imagine that Sylph's allies are getting tired of holding up the dead cat and are looking at how much they would like to take certain stations and constellations if given the nod by the imperial puppetmaster.
As for the bizzare assertation that we should focus our efforts into taking meaningless sov in terrible systems in an attrocious strategic position, I'd like to respond with a quote:
"Speed is the essence of war". |
Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.09.24 01:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Graelyn on 24/09/2009 01:53:29
Originally by: Butter Dog Please name all the alliances who have lost all their space and come back stronger. I can only think of two - Red Alliance, and Ushra'Khan.
Fool. You're not taking any of their space!
Your members have stated here that they do not intend to do so!! It's the whole point of the discussion!
Did you not bother to read your own thread??
Gah, I can't talk to these tribals, it's like attempting discourse with an inbred puppy...
This is where you fall down. |
Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.09.24 02:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Graelyn
Fool. You're not taking any of their space!
Your members have stated here that they do not intend to do so!! It's the whole point of the discussion!
Did you not bother to read your own thread??
Gah, I can't talk to these tribals, it's like attempting discourse with an inbred puppy...
I believe their point is that right now Sylph is likely hemmoraging money, so that eventually SA will fall on it's own fiscal failure.
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Kai Zion
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Posted - 2009.09.24 02:47:00 -
[26]
You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn.
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Lucius Vindictus
Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.09.24 08:11:00 -
[27]
IÆm afraid some of my brethren are missing the point here. UÆK already made it clear several times that they donÆt intend to hold space anywhere. That is a valid strategy, and the one that makes the most sense for their purposes and considering the resources of the enemies they face. IÆm no participant in this war, but IÆd imagine that this makes them hard to pin down, and difficult to strike against. UÆK is an old alliance that has a lot of history and I wonÆt dishonour myself in attempts to smear them or detract from their successes.
That said, and I admit to being a little biased here, I donÆt see how this kind of childish bragging and how these premature victory dances could possibly help a cause. If that is even the intent?
If you manage to destroy your foe utterly, and stand on a mountain of their broken bodies, with their banners ripped down from the last base in their last system, I may well fear you one day, Butterdog. But so long as all you do is wound them, return to camp to brag and giggle and then publically make fun about them, you wonÆt impress me and most others in the slightest. In fact, it only works against you. Even an enemy deserves to be honoured more than that. I wouldnÆt even waste my breath here if I dindÆt hold a grudging respect for UshraÆ Khan and the honourable conduct of members such as zoolkhan and Poreuomai, despite being their military and ideological enemy. It is rare for me to know capsuleers by name and reputation in a positive daylight without ever haven met them, and that is a precious thing. Because of that it is disappointing to see that image diminished here in these ôLook how great we are, isnÆt Sylph pathetic?ö threads.
*The Amarrian seems to be in physically bad health, but dismisses his attendant with a handgesture and struggles to close the link.*
-----
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.24 09:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Graelyn
Fool. You're not taking any of their space!
We control their space. They cannot kill sanshas and collect bounties. They cannot mine. They cannot conduct business in empire.
We earn more ISK killing sansha in their sovereign territiory than they do. The point we're making is that we do not need to take their sovereignty to control their space.
Therefore, we can destroy them without conquering their space in the 'traditional' manner. The results so far speak for themselves. ----------
~bitter dog~
etc |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 09:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kai Zion You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn.
No, he's making perfect sense.
What use is it to utterly destroy an enemy, if you then allow the vacuum that they leave behind to be filled by another enemy?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.24 09:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Kai Zion You're making less sense than usual, Graelyn.
No, he's making perfect sense.
What use is it to utterly destroy an enemy, if you then allow the vacuum that they leave behind to be filled by another enemy?
Sylph's downfall at this stage is attributable to many factors; lack of leadership, lack of motivation by allies to defend them, the fact they're first up coming from our area of catch so they take the brunt of our attacks, and the lack of general callibre left in sylph pilots to name just a few.
I'm fairly certain this new entity would already need to be experienced at holding space to survive long in such a harsh climate which leads me to believe that the only entity that would actually take it is CVA. Since to do so they would have to either buy or evict Sylph from their space, a long standing ally whom they stand by.... i'm quite entertained to sit here and watch whilst shooting any viable targets possible.
Then there's the opportunities for theft. Redeployment of towers done right takes so much time and people do love to just try to put them up with a handful of guys and hope no one is watching. I believe our maximum stolen tower in any given week is around 10 large...
What's the use in utterly destroying an enemy entity? just that. It is destroyed. Then we move onto the next piece.
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