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Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
Because CCP made all your decisions for you.
Consider producing something you can make in safer space.
It's a sandbox. You don't have to make your castle where the dumb kid peed.
Honest. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
How many hours a week do you play?
How many accounts do you have?
What makes you think you are entitled to free Eve? |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
Don't be ridiculous. Gank risk is a part of your cost of doing business. If, after factoring that risk, you're better off operating somewhere else, then so be it.
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
baltec1
1340
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
As a high sec Industrialist with a large POS several jumps outside of Jita who also produces their own fuel I can safely say HTFU. Its not griefing, not by a long shot. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe you should move to null sec. Or just continue with your bad posting, poor hypothetical scenarios and dumb conclusions. Whatever. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
990
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
you could always buy the fuel from market (though, admittedly, expensive)... |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
631
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you have a highsec POS you deserve to suffer infinitely and there is nothing someone can do to you in-game that isn't totally justified. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7726
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Klandi wrote:In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing... Nope.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
|
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Any sandbox has rules or it would not exist. The rules CCP has put in place allow ships to be destroyed anywhere at any time, with different repercussions for different places. For a player-driven economy to work, this is necessary, as competition must include a way to harm the competitor.
You can argue the cost of harming a competitor in Hisec is too low or too high, but it will always remain in the game. You of course can apply any word you like to describe it, but the ones that matter do not consider it an actionable offense. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe guns for hire can be a reality now. How about spliting some profit? |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
192
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Of course it is griefing.
Thing is, EVE allows griefing. "I must break you." |
Dyvim Slorm
MNU Operations Luna Sanguinem
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bossy Lady wrote: Don't be ridiculous. Gank risk is a part of your cost of doing business. If, after factoring that risk, you're better off operating somewhere else, then so be it.
QFT.
Getting ganked should be factored into your business model. It's a known risk so set aside some of your profit to cover it and other contingent risks.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3244
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
you trying to stop me from ganking you is griefing me |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
116
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm an industrialist...and I have to shake my head at this.
Yes, other players can make it difficult...nay...impossible to do things that you were previously doing just fine. They can crash or explode markets you depended on, target your assets and otherwise make things tough. A good industrialist learns to adapt. If you were clever enough to come up with a good solid business strategy before, you should be clever enough to re-assess the environment and find a new way to do business.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dyvim Slorm wrote:Bossy Lady wrote: Don't be ridiculous. Gank risk is a part of your cost of doing business. If, after factoring that risk, you're better off operating somewhere else, then so be it.
QFT. Getting ganked should be factored into your business model. It's a known risk so set aside some of your profit to cover it and other contingent risks. And if the profit to do so isn't there, then you're trying to build a castle in the sand where the dumb kid peed.
The sand there is gross, smells bad, and doesn't clump well.
Look for cleaner sand. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1668
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Did some creative editing on the post to group ideas together. It was a little...free flowing.
Klandi wrote:So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked .... Did you tank your mackinaw? Have you maybe talked to some of the locals to see if anyone had a booster online to increase your tank? Or did you just put a barely-fitted Mack in an ice belt and assume absolute safety?
Klandi wrote:Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits. Market forces and geography dictate what is most efficient for you? Who would have ever thought such a thing!
Klandi wrote:So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec?
For the abundant resources that are only available there.
Klandi wrote:And why do I need to be ganked? You don't. It's easily avoided. You got ganked because you were a soft target. Don't be. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
581
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame
I also blame the other players for not allowing me to have my own personal Tech-moon and a fleet of Titans.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame I also blame the other players for not allowing me to have my own personal Tech-moon and a fleet of Titans. Why aim so low? Why not a fleet of Tech moons and a whole gaggle of fanbois to manage the pos's for you for pennies on the dollar, too? |
|
VaMei
Meafi Corp
171
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Yes, other players can make it difficult...nay...impossible to do things that you were previously doing just fine. They can crash or explode markets you depended on, target your assets and otherwise make things tough. A good industrialist learns to adapt. If you were clever enough to come up with a good solid business strategy before, you should be clever enough to re-assess the environment and find a new way to do business. Exactly right.
The challenges and competition offered by other players are the only things that make Eve any more challenging than Farmville. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
208
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:you trying to stop me from ganking you is griefing me
only if he is sucessful at it. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Warpshade
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Use of game mechanics is not griefing, its merely playing the game! Griefing is to negatively impact other players using out of game mechanics. However harrassment could warrant action, but you woud also have to prove you have been purposely harrassed, and guess what? being killed in Eve randomly by a gankers isnt harrasment neither.
People really need to learn the game they are playing, you knew what the game was and you chose said route, now you have to live with said decision, If you didnt know what the game was...well too bad, now your finding out.
Stop trying to change the game to benefit yourself, basically you just want to accumulate wealth without threat via changing game mechanics. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1176
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
Moral of story: People who are terrible at Eve cannot afford to buy plex.
Working as intended.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
439
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
You are greifing my eyes by writing such bullshit |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
810
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
It seems the OP does not know how to make their own choices. EVE is not the game for them. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Also keep one other thing in mind: There is a good chance that you are not the only industrialist doing what you were doing (or something very similar). As such, the same conditions that have made business hard for you is making business hard for them, your competition, too. If you are able to tweak the way you do things to account for the changes in the environment and additional risks, but otherwise continue your business, you'll probably find you have bigger profits waiting for you.
Ask any miner who has learned to mine without being ganked. Their adaptation let them remain and now they enjoy much higher mineral prices for their efforts. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Another, "What I mine is free." post, with bonus ganker whine.
1. You don't need a POS to be profitable. In fact a POS may hurt your profits.
I do very well just using publicly available manufacturing, research and invention, slots. Find a quiet highsec system that has low queue times. I can make a profit of about a half bil a week all in public slots, so your argument about "needing" a POS is pretty much moot.
2. Stop trying to gather everything by yourself.
Seriously, set up buy orders, and let somebody who can do it more efficiently than you sell you the materials you need, sometimes a little under value, savings that you can then pocket. Concentrate your skills on becoming a more efficient producer, and preserve even more of your profit margin. Gatherer, producer, efficient, choose two.
3. Stop ******* whining!
Seriously, just stop. You are making yourself look like a fool. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|
Mina Hiragi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner.
Being unable to 'afford sharing' ice, you choose to mine alone, thereby:
- Causing a potential decrease in m3/hour - Causing a potential loss in refinery inefficiency - Causing a definite loss in time wasted hauling/refining your own ice - Causing a devastating loss by virtue of being alone (there is safety in numbers, even if that safety translates to the guy next to you getting blown up instead of you).
I submit that you yourself should become a hulk-splattering ganker, because the Market Lords of Jita are going to do things to you and your questionable business sense that shouldn't be mentioned even on impolite forums. |
Pamplie
Tactical Stables Nulli Tertius
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Anyone here old enough to remember M0o? Those guys went on a killing spree in Mara (0.4) and got scattered to the far corners of the universe. |
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Price Check Aisle3
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
This thread should be ganked. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1672
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Another, "What I mine is free." post...
Oh god not this again. PLEASE don't start one of these stupid arguments. Can't you guys just let them be ignorant? It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Another, "What I mine is free." post... Oh god not this again. PLEASE don't start one of these stupid arguments. Can't you guys just let them be ignorant? But he started it. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
302
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
While I often support anti-ganking posts I can't buy the "you made my choices" argument at all.
I do think it's worth talking about ice mining as a separate subject from mineral mining. You can't hide in an ice belt, there are too few of them. You can't get ice products from any other source in the game. Ice mining makes mineral mining look like an action packed night in Amamake.
Back when pos anchoring took hours and hours, ice mining was only the second most mind numbing part of Eve. Now it has no peers. Even more than minerals, Eve runs on ice. I am willing to bet that the ganking in ice systems is far worse than anywhere else. |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 23:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Go to amarr, less ganktastic over there...
It's really not that hard ain't it? |
Frying Doom
Tinfoil Hat News Ltd.
292
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hell I just started some of my alts mining again. It really is as funny as hell to watch gankers explode. Then you loot the wreck and get a nice free influx of cash Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:Maybe you should move to null sec. Or just continue with your bad posting, poor hypothetical scenarios and dumb conclusions. Whatever.
lol all the usual countertrolls. Hi, Tippia
|
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
I want to reply to this generally as there are some that have read one thing and think that meant something completely different.
When CCP made the game, as they have expressed on a number of occasions, it is a sandbox - ANYONE could have done and was allowed to do anything to shape the existence of the interaction. They made a HI-sec, lo-sec and null and said use them as you wish..
We formed Jita as a sales hub specifically 4.4 NOT CCP. We carted stuff there to sell there - not CCP. Null sec does NOT have these hubs because we have not made them - consequently we made the situation. We then decided that we would use the areas as we do so we are to blame for how things have turned out.
I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this.
There are a few that will realise this - the majority won't.
Eve - you live up to my expectation I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
436
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame
CCP makes the rules CCP doesn't have a problem with it Adapt to the rules. Check out the new Orca model, brought to you by the Unified Inventory System
http://i.imgur.com/InJgK.jpg-á
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7733
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this. You also came to a conclusion without offering much in the way of logic or evidence to support it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame CCP makes the rules CCP doesn't have a problem with it Adapt to the rules. Ah, so now it's CCP that's griefing by not outlawing ganknig alltogether.
Interesting... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7735
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Klandi wrote:What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions GÇ£Hi-sec ganking IS griefingGÇ¥
GǪyou know, the title of your OP? An OP punctuated by GÇ£That is griefing...GÇ¥ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Klandi wrote:What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions GǣHi-sec ganking IS griefingGǥ GǪyou know, the title of your OP? An OP punctuated by GǣThat is griefing...Gǥ It was... pretty obvious... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
344
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
You are griefing me by warping away when I try to shoot at you. ... |
Adaten TheGreat
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
You're An idiot, leave eve, thanks :) |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
I bet the OP also feels griefed when someone undercuts his entire monthly stock of whatever he built and placed on the market as one huge sell order. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
A unique and wholly owned subsiduary of a well known Eve enity
Hahaha
|
Boomhaur
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think WoW is even too hardcore for the OP. So let me help you Hello Kitty Online is that a way --> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/
Just try not to get "griefed" in there I heard they could be vicious by your standards. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
392
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame
Oh for Dog's sake, will you just grow up
In irae, veritas. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1178
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Boomhaur wrote:I think WoW is even too hardcore for the OP. So let me help you Hello Kitty Online is that a way --> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/Just try not to get "griefed" in there I heard they could be vicious by your standards. Excuse me but us HelloKittyOnline players are actually a surprisingly hard core bunch, and we resent you sending all these risk averse care bears our way.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Eyezpiddydafooh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Posting in a "I'm a Goon alt and trolling" post. |
Kouvoa Erkkinen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 05:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
Hey now, as a Goon alt, I resent that! |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2400
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 06:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
I agree with the thread title to a point.
Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.
As it is right now, I think it has stepped over the line due to being very easy to do and characters can quickly train for it. I believe the reason for the massive increase is players being able to exploite unbalanced game mechanics making it very easy to do. That allows players to create multiple alts specifically for ganking while the main character can scout targets and collect up the loot..When the alt get's too low on security status, create another alt. Probably able to do it just within the 2 week trial time.
DMC |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 06:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree with the thread title to a point.
Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.
How would you characterise alliance warfare if not "main type of gameplay in [null] sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content"?
To put it another way: why should an organised campaign of hostilities be acceptable when it's against players in this region, but not when it's against players in that region? What part of the EULA gives an exception for location (other than the very specific exception to the rules concerning can-baiting in starter systems)? Where is it stated that players here are entitled to exemptions and privileges that players there are not? There's no pop-up message that I have seen. There's nothing in the descriptions.
Is there in fact anything except a big old fat flabby unexamined assumption on your part?
Show it to us.
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1183
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 06:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree with the thread title to a point.
Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.
As it is right now, I think it has stepped over the line due to being very easy to do and characters can quickly train for it. I believe the reason for the massive increase is players being able to exploite unbalanced game mechanics making it very easy to do. That allows players to create multiple alts specifically for ganking while the main character can scout targets and collect up the loot..When the alt get's too low on security status, create another alt. Probably able to do it just within the 2 week trial time.
DMC According to CCP Diagoras there were only 86 characters with below -2 sec status biomassed last month. And there has been no rise in that number corresponding with hulkageddon.
So yours, and other peoples, theories on rolling disposable alts seem somewhat baseless.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Dante Chusuk
Sicarius. When Hippos Attack
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 08:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I want to reply to this generally as there are some that have read one thing and think that meant something completely different.
When CCP made the game, as they have expressed on a number of occasions, it is a sandbox - ANYONE could have done and was allowed to do anything to shape the existence of the interaction. They made a HI-sec, lo-sec and null and said use them as you wish..
We formed Jita as a sales hub specifically 4.4 NOT CCP. We carted stuff there to sell there - not CCP. Null sec does NOT have these hubs because we have not made them - consequently we made the situation. We then decided that we would use the areas as we do so we are to blame for how things have turned out.
I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this.
There are a few that will realise this - the majority won't.
Eve - you live up to my expectation
To back this up, some people might remember that the main trade hub used to be somewhere completely different.
CCP changed the gate network (no more "highway" jumps) to make the universe seem bigger
The COMMUNITY organically moved the trade hub to Jita 4-4 ... Same reason you have trade hubs in other key systems (Rens, Amarr, Dodixie ... even Hek to an extent) due to travel distances, traffic, etc ...
Also ... I miss Yulai ... |
Xuse Senna
Analog Folk SRS.
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 08:08:00 -
[58] - Quote
Is the basic rule don't fly a hunk? Why can't ppl mine in the cheaper miner thingy... Can you tell I'v never mined :P D3 |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
729
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 08:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Klandi wrote: In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
My sincere apologies, I didnt realise I personally had ruined your game. I didn't realise that while I milk the bountious rewards of my nullsec home that you were poor and living in a shanty town outside Jita, working in a sweatshop producing catalysts while I fly around Fade in billion isk ships ignorant of your suffering.
To make this better, we the rich people of nullsec have started a charity, it is called it The Black Cross. It costs just 25 isk a day to feed people like Klandi and give them a chance at a better life. I personally donated my ratting Tengu to this charity.
If everyone in Eve sends just 25 isk a day to me, I will assure that the people living in squalor around Jita are cared for and given clean water. If Klandi could ask for help, she would. So I am asking for her, send isk. Please. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
523
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 09:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Klandi wrote: I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone
A couple issues with this:
1. If you aren't taking into account the cost of getting ganked once in a while when figuring out profitability, well, perhaps you are doing the math wrong. High sec mining perhaps is not as profitable as it seems on the surface.
2. "I prefer to do it alone". So how come you're playing EVE Online, a MULTI-PLAYER game, if you prefer to be alone? Go out to your yard, grab a couple rocks, put them on your desk, shine a laser pointer at them and pretend you are mining. If you want to simulate ice mining do the same with ice cubes from your freezer. And there, you will have single-player mining with zero risk.
You know you could think about a) joining a nullsec industry alliance or b) renting space in nullsec. Yeah it means you have to share - your time helping out your allies, or your isk if you are renting. But the ice is much better, the ore is better, the planets are better, there's no stupid starbase charters to buy or faction standing to worry about. But yeah once in a while you'll get a visit from people who want to kill you. But that happens now, anwyay.
In all seriousness I was in high sec as a miner/industrialist for YEARS. Moved to null about a year ago and I am loving it. |
|
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1523
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 09:43:00 -
[61] - Quote
Threads like these should be considered as griefing. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
662
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 09:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Wrong - CCP made the game YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame
Welcome, to the sandbox *wavvy hands*
If you don't like this, there is the door *shows boot*
Honestly you come into a game that thrives on conflict and then you start to complain sometimes people shoot you... - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
baltec1
1349
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:Maybe you should move to null sec. Or just continue with your bad posting, poor hypothetical scenarios and dumb conclusions. Whatever. lol all the usual countertrolls. Hi, Tippia
Tippia gains yet another alt |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rico - your're a sweetie, taking up a collection for me and other "afflicted". Just transfer all of it to me and I will see that those that need it will get it.
Ptraci - let me address your issues directly I address the griefing issues surrounding the likes of hulkageddon - where it seems that because I play a certain way, I have restriction placed on how I do things - and I was also bringing into the dialogue how I did not create the situation. Profit and loss feature in my gameplay to the extent that I more or less rely on it to sub my characters.
I prefer to control my own destiny within the game rather than be part of a crowd and to log on and off when it doesn't impact essential operations or other people. I have experienced the joys of a null-sec corp and the truth is you need to be a group if you do anything industrial in null, solely because of the constant interruption from others wanting to kill you or camp your system. But having much better stuff means what? I still have to collect it, then I still have to sell it to get isk and where do I do that? Jita. Chances are that in the run to Jita my JF will get ganked and that is the end of 10-15bils worth of toil and ship.
I am a casual player - Eve does not cater for the casual player and I am not laying that at the feet of CCP - but the other players as you created the way it is. Take responsibility!!! I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
baltec1
1349
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
Klandi wrote:
I am a casual player - Eve does not cater for the casual player and I am not laying that at the feet of CCP - but the other players as you created the way it is. Take responsibility!!!
I bet I am more casual than you and I get along just fine. I am doing the exact same thing as you yet I am thriving and expanding my business while you are here whining how hard it is. Your time would be better spent finding out what you are doing wrong and learning from it. |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I am a casual player - Eve does not cater for the casual player and I am not laying that at the feet of CCP - but the other players as you created the way it is. Take responsibility!!!
Carebear Canned Argument #3 - "But I'm the only casual player and all the others play EVE 23/7 and get no sex therefore CCP needs to change a 9-year old game to cater to me only"
|
Smegma Cheesedog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Crazy Wonderbread woman is a bum hurt carebear. If she was my woman she would be feelin the back of my hand...
|
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
419
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
I am a casual player. I make enough isk to support my casual play.
I loose ships but always make enough to replace them. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy African
*Hair done by LGÇÖOr+¬al, because I'm worth it. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
519
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
TL;DR Other players are interfering in MY sandbox. CCP you must ban these griefers. |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:39:00 -
[70] - Quote
NO lexmana - other players CREATED the situation in the sandbox and I am dealing with it - just let me get on with it without ganking me!! I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
|
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Klandi wrote:NO lexmana - other players CREATED the situation in the sandbox and I am dealing with it - just let me get on with it without ganking me!!
Hmmm... why should you get special treatment?
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
170
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
you know that description of griefing you got from that other game that's not eve?
That doesn't apply here.
Griefing is something entirely different in eve. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
804
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
Klandi wrote:NO lexmana - other players CREATED the situation in the sandbox and I am dealing with it - just let me get on with it without ganking me!! The situation you need to be dealing with is getting ganked.
I suggest you check out RubyPortio's fine posts listing some excellent ways of handling this situation(and, admittedly, a few not so excellent, but merely ok, ways) Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
OMGz Soylent Green is PEOPLE! |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 11:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree with the thread title to a point.
Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.
DMC
You should probably come up with some facts and figures that you can back up with documented proof instead of making assumptions, jumping to conclusions and spreading lies, paranoia and mis information. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
520
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 11:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Klandi wrote:NO lexmana - other players CREATED the situation in the sandbox and I am dealing with it - just let me get on with it without ganking me!! The situation you need to be dealing with is getting ganked. This. If you spent half the time trying to figure out a better strategy for your EVE project instead of meta-gaming the forums with whine I am sure you will make more ISK and be ganked less. And have more fun too by actually accepting the challenge EVE and its players presents you. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
479
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 11:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Klandi wrote:In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
In short, you played in a big sandbox and don't want anyone else to go near your sandcastle? "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7753
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 11:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Klandi wrote:NO lexmana - other players CREATED the situation in the sandbox and I am dealing with it - just let me get on with it without ganking me!! It rather sounds like you're not dealing with it. Why shouldn't they gank you? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
124
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 12:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Klandi wrote:
I am a casual player - Eve does not cater for the casual player and I am not laying that at the feet of CCP - but the other players as you created the way it is. Take responsibility!!!
I'm a casual player too. Just being a casual player does not mean you can't adapt to the changes in the environment. The only thing being casual does is makes you less likely to be able to change the environment yourself on any significant level. Of course, most 'hard-core' players can't do that either, so the title of 'casual' can't be leaned on for any sort of excuse.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Aodha Khan
The Paratwa Ka
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 12:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Another whining thread.... _____________________________________________________ Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
|
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 12:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
the sandbloobloobloobloobloox Follow me on twitter |
Sebroth
Svea Rike Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:18:00 -
[82] - Quote
Every day countless of companies around our glob have to move, change thier buisiness ideas or in some other way adapt to the reality or they will be forced to shut down. Every company have to decide what risks they are willing to take. If the risk are to high and/or the profit to low they need to find or create whatever they need to survive. If a shipping company is getting owned by east african pirates they might need to find other ways to do thier business or accept their loss as a part of their cost to run that same business.
Adapt or die. Thats the rule we all live by in EvE. Just because I want to be left alone when I have my own little mining OP does it not mean I will be left alone. Not only do both hostiles and neutral blow me up, those pesky rats will do thier best as well.
What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same. If you are having a hard time making profit it's time for you to change you business plan. It's not the time for CCP to change thier game. Even if they did change thier game you would still find yourself in a bad situation as long you are not willig to adapt. We that do adapt will always be on top of people that don't.
/seb |
L Salander
Bite Me inc Exhale.
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
I never know if threads like these are parody/trolling or if there are actually people who really do tear-spam like this. |
Price Check Aisle3
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
L Salander wrote:I never know if threads like these are parody/trolling or if there are actually people who really do tear-spam like this. I usually operate under the assumption that OP is almost always a troll and everyone who agrees with OP is a whiny *****. |
Sebroth
Svea Rike Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
oh BTW... I hope you did not post this thread with any account affiliated with your business... or you might actually soon get to know what greifing actually is in this game
not everyone in this game are nice people and some of the less nice ones might decide to that those 20 whatever jumps they need to do with thier destroyer might be worth thier time just to see some tears |
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Perkone Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 13:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
There just isn't anything worth the timeof day in this or just about any thread.
It's finally down to all the Usual Forum Failures uselessly flailing away at their keyboards in serch of an e-peen orgasm that will never actually ever arrive.
God, this game is dead.
Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
307
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
Sebroth wrote:Every day countless of companies around our glob have to move, change thier buisiness ideas or in some other way adapt to the reality or they will be forced to shut down. Every company have to decide what risks they are willing to take. If the risk are to high and/or the profit to low they need to find or create whatever they need to survive. If a shipping company is getting owned by east african pirates they might need to find other ways to do thier business or accept their loss as a part of their cost to run that same business.
Adapt or die. Thats the rule we all live by in EvE. Just because I want to be left alone when I have my own little mining OP does it not mean I will be left alone. Not only do both hostiles and neutral blow me up, those pesky rats will do thier best as well.
What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same. If you are having a hard time making profit it's time for you to change you business plan. It's not the time for CCP to change thier game. Even if they did change thier game you would still find yourself in a bad situation as long you are not willig to adapt. We that do adapt will always be on top of people that don't.
/seb
This would be such a fine argument except that "griefing" is what these activities get called on the forums all the time, by the people who do them. The EULA forbids griefing but doesn't bother to tell new players or anybody else that there is almost nothing in the game that is "griefing", short of real life threats.
If all these activities are to balance the market, they are really doing a fine job, don't you think? One man's market balance is another man's market manipulation. The market is designed to be unbalanced. It's full of bottlenecks that can be exploited by players. This market is not free or open any more than the real world market is free or open. It's dominated by the big boys.
Oh holy sandbox, God forbid we should ever question it.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1188
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Sebroth wrote:Every day countless of companies around our glob have to move, change thier buisiness ideas or in some other way adapt to the reality or they will be forced to shut down. Every company have to decide what risks they are willing to take. If the risk are to high and/or the profit to low they need to find or create whatever they need to survive. If a shipping company is getting owned by east african pirates they might need to find other ways to do thier business or accept their loss as a part of their cost to run that same business.
Adapt or die. Thats the rule we all live by in EvE. Just because I want to be left alone when I have my own little mining OP does it not mean I will be left alone. Not only do both hostiles and neutral blow me up, those pesky rats will do thier best as well.
What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same. If you are having a hard time making profit it's time for you to change you business plan. It's not the time for CCP to change thier game. Even if they did change thier game you would still find yourself in a bad situation as long you are not willig to adapt. We that do adapt will always be on top of people that don't.
/seb This would be such a fine argument except that "griefing" is what these activities get called on the forums all the time, by the people who do them. The EULA forbids griefing but doesn't bother to tell new players or anybody else that there is almost nothing in the game that is "griefing", short of real life threats. If all these activities are to balance the market, they are really doing a fine job, don't you think? One man's market balance is another man's market manipulation. The market is designed to be unbalanced. It's full of bottlenecks that can be exploited by players. This market is not free or open any more than the real world market is free or open. It's dominated by the big boys. Oh holy sandbox, God forbid we should ever question it. Actually you can get warnings and even bans for briefing, it just isn't defined by CCP as blowing up hulks.
If I targetted a newish player specifically, for no real reason and with no real goal, that would probably be seen as griefing. Hulkageddon has goals, doesn't target new players and is rarely focussed on killing specific individuals.
Those individuals also have a course of action open to them to cease the griefing, should they choose to take it. Hence, it is not griefing.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Eyezpiddydafooh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:37:00 -
[89] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:Sebroth wrote:Every day countless of companies around our glob have to move, change thier buisiness ideas or in some other way adapt to the reality or they will be forced to shut down. Every company have to decide what risks they are willing to take. If the risk are to high and/or the profit to low they need to find or create whatever they need to survive. If a shipping company is getting owned by east african pirates they might need to find other ways to do thier business or accept their loss as a part of their cost to run that same business.
Adapt or die. Thats the rule we all live by in EvE. Just because I want to be left alone when I have my own little mining OP does it not mean I will be left alone. Not only do both hostiles and neutral blow me up, those pesky rats will do thier best as well.
What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same. If you are having a hard time making profit it's time for you to change you business plan. It's not the time for CCP to change thier game. Even if they did change thier game you would still find yourself in a bad situation as long you are not willig to adapt. We that do adapt will always be on top of people that don't.
/seb This would be such a fine argument except that "griefing" is what these activities get called on the forums all the time, by the people who do them. The EULA forbids griefing but doesn't bother to tell new players or anybody else that there is almost nothing in the game that is "griefing", short of real life threats. If all these activities are to balance the market, they are really doing a fine job, don't you think? One man's market balance is another man's market manipulation. The market is designed to be unbalanced. It's full of bottlenecks that can be exploited by players. This market is not free or open any more than the real world market is free or open. It's dominated by the big boys. Oh holy sandbox, God forbid we should ever question it. Actually you can get warnings and even bans for briefing, it just isn't defined by CCP as blowing up hulks. If I targetted a newish player specifically, for no real reason and with no real goal, that would probably be seen as griefing. Hulkageddon has goals, doesn't target new players and is rarely focussed on killing specific individuals. Those individuals also have a course of action open to them to cease the griefing, should they choose to take it. Hence, it is not griefing.
Oh so griefing is defined by choices now is it? Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with repeatedly doing something just for the sake of causing "grief" on another player? |
Alice Saki
Analog Folk SRS.
93
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Wrong Post http://tinyurl.com/RifterDeath My Rifter Adventure in Null |
|
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
breaking a window of a car and stealing the stereo is a crime. If you get caught, you have to face the music.
You lose SEC status. You lose your ship. Your victim is free to hunt you.
If CCP are to do ANYTHING, it would have to be make kill rights transferable, and give the bounty a better function, as in, if you kill THIS guy, I give you 5 million isk.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1188
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:15:00 -
[92] - Quote
Eyezpiddydafooh wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Actually you can get warnings and even bans for briefing, it just isn't defined by CCP as blowing up hulks.
If I targetted a newish player specifically, for no real reason and with no real goal, that would probably be seen as griefing. Hulkageddon has goals, doesn't target new players and is rarely focussed on killing specific individuals.
Those individuals also have a course of action open to them to cease the griefing, should they choose to take it. Hence, it is not griefing.
Oh so griefing is defined by choices now is it? Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with repeatedly doing something just for the sake of causing "grief" on another player? And yet hulkageddon as an event is not organised purely for the purpose of causing grief, it could easily be argued that it is a powerful tool for market manipulation, for controlling the activities of others in game and for influencing the path of the game itself.
None of these things are pointless or meaningless, you may not like them, but they are valid goals and those who began and have become involved in hulkageddon are using it as a vehicle to those ends.
It is not merely a case of the victims having a choice that enables them to escape their fate, it is also the fact that unlike me taking out thrashers and podding/harassing a specific newbie hulkageddon targets older players and it does so with a purpose in mind.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
67
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
You lot are strange From Strangelove putting a 5mil bounty on my head (thanks sweetie) to weird comments like " What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same." I am wondering whether you read the same post I wrote!!! but carry on ... *sigh* I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Klandi wrote:You lot are strange From Strangelove putting a 5mil bounty on my head (thanks sweetie) to weird comments like " What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same." I am wondering whether you read the same post I wrote!!! but carry on ... *sigh* To be fair the OP was short on content and eternally long on accusations that cannot possibly be true.
So you being shocked that people act like they don't understand what you're talking about is par for the course, I guess. |
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:31:00 -
[95] - Quote
I didnt even have to read the Op to know OPISMAD
Read First Dev Post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
67
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
And if I learn Eve the way that you learnt Eve would I also bow and scrape to my Goon overlords like you do ... Grow a pair I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
Klandi wrote:And if I learn Eve the way that you learnt Eve would I also bow and scrape to my Goon overlords like you do ... Grow a pair You might stand up to them instead of whining on the forums and accusing them of making your decisions for you.
And you say that the respondants to this thread need to grow a pair?
Hmmm. Why do you want to modify my playstyle so much?
I think the tear detector is sounding its alarm! |
Sebroth
Svea Rike Fidelas Constans
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Sebroth wrote:Every day countless of companies around our glob have to move, change thier buisiness ideas or in some other way adapt to the reality or they will be forced to shut down. Every company have to decide what risks they are willing to take. If the risk are to high and/or the profit to low they need to find or create whatever they need to survive. If a shipping company is getting owned by east african pirates they might need to find other ways to do thier business or accept their loss as a part of their cost to run that same business.
Adapt or die. Thats the rule we all live by in EvE. Just because I want to be left alone when I have my own little mining OP does it not mean I will be left alone. Not only do both hostiles and neutral blow me up, those pesky rats will do thier best as well.
What you talk about have nothing to do with greifing. But all to do with market balance. If no hulks where blown up in eve then mineral prices would go down and in the end your profit would be the same. If you are having a hard time making profit it's time for you to change you business plan. It's not the time for CCP to change thier game. Even if they did change thier game you would still find yourself in a bad situation as long you are not willig to adapt. We that do adapt will always be on top of people that don't.
/seb This would be such a fine argument except that "griefing" is what these activities get called on the forums all the time, by the people who do them. The EULA forbids griefing but doesn't bother to tell new players or anybody else that there is almost nothing in the game that is "griefing", short of real life threats. If all these activities are to balance the market, they are really doing a fine job, don't you think? One man's market balance is another man's market manipulation. The market is designed to be unbalanced. It's full of bottlenecks that can be exploited by players. This market is not free or open any more than the real world market is free or open. It's dominated by the big boys. Oh holy sandbox, God forbid we should ever question it.
|
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
Klandi wrote:And if I learn Eve the way that you learnt Eve would I also bow and scrape to my Goon overlords like you do ... Grow a pair
you humor me
you also sound very upset, shall i get your a tissue? perhaps the smallest violin in the world so you may carry it in your pocket and make sad, sad music whenever you need?
me grow a pair? i'm not the one crying on the forums that my stuff got ganked in Highsec. Here, since you have so much trouble figuring this out, i'll hold your hand. (coming from someone who spent many many years in highsec, check my employment history you numb-nuts)
1 - Fit a tank on your industrial ship 2 - Use scouts? 3 - Warp away when you see a group of destroyers land on grid <-- easiest solution 4 - Use cheaper T1 mining barges 5 - Keep a BPO of whatever ship you refuse to tank and defend so you can build new ones instead of buying them
I could go on and on, but I have a feeling your thick head wont comprehend what I'm saying.
Read First Dev Post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
67
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
highonpop wrote:
Anyone who lets the actions of another control their actions without their consent is a weak minded individual.
As it seems FA are - so you are speaking from experience there I see.
Thank you for the most useless advice given in this thread - please do not post again I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
Klandi wrote:highonpop wrote:
Anyone who lets the actions of another control their actions without their consent is a weak minded individual.
As it seems FA are - so you are speaking from experience there I see. Thank you for the most useless advice given in this thread - please do not post again Wait a minute.
Does -FA- pay you rent? Because I don't think they pay anybody rent.
In fact, I'm really quite sure they do what they want. |
Kyle Myr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
247
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
People who accuse FA of being renters miss a critical concept in 0.0 life: Renters are completely useless in an actual fight. They won't defend their space, let alone yours, if you're renting out that space to them.
I'd try to post something more on topic as well but I honestly can't understand what the OP is trying to say. Something about POS and whatnot being dependent on null? I really don't get it. |
baltec1
1353
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:10:00 -
[103] - Quote
Klandi wrote:And if I learn Eve the way that you learnt Eve would I also bow and scrape to my Goon overlords like you do ... Grow a pair
God help you if M0o ever came back. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.
I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS. I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub. Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this? IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE. Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner. And I get ganked ....
Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.
So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec? And why do I need to be ganked?
In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it? That is griefing...
So much fail in one post.
#1. You don't not have a RIGHT to make ANY profit in EVE (this is the basis of your whining).. If making a profit were some kind of right, you still wouldn't have a right to complain because:
#2. You don't have a RIGHT to play the game using plex only, tha'ts called a "privillage". If you can't find a way to make enough money to buy plex, this is in no way someone elses fault. But not having a right to either profit or free (plex) play time, you still have no basis to complain because:
#3. You don't have the right to "not" join with others when you need to. Simply put, more people would make what you want to do easier, but you CHOOSE not to yet refuse to accept the lower (or) no profit that comes with that choice. The above 3 are all still moot because:
#4. This game is not about "the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station". NO GAME is about everything/everybody. EVE is an MMO, not a single player game you can pause when you like. If you want to do "solo/casual/high-sec" that's fine, as long as you accept the consequences of those choices.
People like you are simply unreasonable, you want it all, at no cost. Sorry, that's not the EVE way.
|
ian papabear
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
Your decisions afftect your eve gameplay. You chose to become an industrialist. CCP did not force you into that position nor are you required to do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_FJBdQUAO4 |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:17:00 -
[106] - Quote
Most of the time its considered prifit, NOT griefing.
If you get killed just for the sake of getting killed, then its griefing.
When is CCP going to finally fix world hunger? |
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:27:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:When is CCP going to finally fix world hunger?
They did. Just not enough people are opting for the zombie racial option. More people are getting in on it these days though.
|
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Persona Non Gratis
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
I can only hope it's a troll, but if not:
Warpshade wrote:basically you just want to accumulate wealth without threat via changing game mechanics.
This. Also this whine seems good, we'll have a bottle
"Fools! I'll show them all!"
What do you mean that one's already taken? |
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
93
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:57:00 -
[109] - Quote
Klandi wrote:highonpop wrote:
Anyone who lets the actions of another control their actions without their consent is a weak minded individual.
As it seems FA are - so you are speaking from experience there I see. Thank you for the most useless advice given in this thread - please do not post again
Posting again cause you're Butt Hurt
I don't see how being allies with another alliance is allowing them to dictate what we do
YOU on the other hand let someone else affect you so much that you had to come to the forums and cry about it. Now that no one is supporting your 'stomp my feet and cry about it" fest, you're getting butt hurt.
I say again, LEARN TO PLAY EVE
Read First Dev Post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
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