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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Nepech Al'akir
Its the truth.
More details; http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/21/breaking-news-shc-isd-violating-coldfront-users-privacy/
Post in assembly hall http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1183260&page=1
The "truth" isn't going to be found by reading one side of a story. How was that information obtained? How recent is it?
If it is a leak from a private email between two individuals then maybe the concern is not so much the content but rather the fact that someone accessed it (assuming the sender or receiver didn't leak it). In that light, a crusade against omginternetabuse is a little ironic.
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/ - uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hubris
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/
And the privacy of the person whos email account was hacked?
IP addresses are hardly the most guarded of sekrits on the interwebz __________________
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: Hubris
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/
And the privacy of the person whos email account was hacked?
IP addresses are hardly the most guarded of sekrits on the interwebz
Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories. - uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Shemhamphorash
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:15:00 -
[34]
Nnnoooo! And I just applied :(
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Quinn Foute
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: Hubris
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/
And the privacy of the person whos email account was hacked?
IP addresses are hardly the most guarded of sekrits on the interwebz
some of the ips have complete ripe information |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:44:00 -
[36]
All I want to know right now is whos on vacation. because honest to god I do NOT want to hear when this all blowes over that someone was not fired because someone else happend to be on vacation and fireing them now would hurt there feelings.
AGAIN.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: Hubris
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/
And the privacy of the person whos email account was hacked?
IP addresses are hardly the most guarded of sekrits on the interwebz
Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories.
Well, if they are just "theories" I guess that is a confession that the source of your "information" for your "drama" is unconfirmed.
The "how" this "information" was obtained is more important, because until that is confirmed the "information" is suspect, no?
Besides, how do we even know if these things are related? - the dev-blog doesn't even hint in this direction.
アニメ漫画です
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Quinn Foute
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: Hubris
Avon, we are not reporting just one side of the CCP PRIVACYGATE story. We are reporting any and all information released on the subject that can be verified. I am adding every bit of information that i find, and a bit of commentary as well in case some information cannot be fully verified. But nothing has been one sided so far in the reporting. Truth in reporting is what we have so far, and the ball is in CCP's court to provide the rest of the story.
The only thing one sided is who has released all information possible, and who is transparent so far and who is not.
update on the devblog with a bit of commentary - http://www.battledb.com/2009/09/23/ccp-privacygate-dev-blog-update/
And the privacy of the person whos email account was hacked?
IP addresses are hardly the most guarded of sekrits on the interwebz
Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories.
Well, if they are just "theories" I guess that is a confession that the source of your "information" for your "drama" is unconfirmed.
The "how" this "information" was obtained is more important, because until that is confirmed the "information" is suspect, no?
Besides, how do we even know if these things are related? - the dev-blog doesn't even hint in this direction.
even if they wouldnt be related- (they are related, but lets pretent they are not) the question why ISD members have access to website server logs and are with knowledge of at least one ccp employee collecting them to be compared against other sources remains.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:36:00 -
[39]
I for my person have faith in CCP and trust them. At least I trust them more than some (anonymous) postings of some accusations and dark hints or whatever.
If CCP decides to come forward with more detailed information I would applaud. But if they think they shouldn't do that for their best interest, then I would say also okay.
Until then it is just sad to see that because of just one (or few more persons) the whole ISD department and probably other volunteers and therefore all Eve suffer. The volunteers really do a lot of work for Eve.
Always difficult to find the balance between being to strict and set your devs away from the community and the game and being to relaxed and allow to many people to get into positions with sensitive data or abusive powers. So far CCP always found a good way.
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Quinn Foute
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gnulpie I for my person have faith in CCP and trust them. At least I trust them more than some (anonymous) postings of some accusations and dark hints or whatever.
You are totally correct. History has shown that CCP is completly trustworthy and that accusations from outside resources can not be trusted. The idea CCP could try and wipe anything under the carpet is stupid. That is like believing outside sources could proove CCP developers would cheat themselves lets say a t2 bpo or even a few of them and give them to some alliance (hilarious thought i know, just an example) while CCP knowing of this since half a year would just be quiet .
something like that could never happen. full trust for ccp |
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:45:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Avon on 23/09/2009 19:49:50
Originally by: Quinn Foute
even if they wouldnt be related- (they are related, but lets pretent they are not) the question why ISD members have access to website server logs and are with knowledge of at least one ccp employee collecting them to be compared against other sources remains.
Let me just get this drama straight in my head:
1/ People go to the site of a known CCP hater (who states he has used IP cross-matching to "unmask" ccp staff) without masking their IP. 2/ They click on a link to a dev-blog from that certain persons site. 3/ The IP address from refer is logged. 4/ Someone emails that list of IPs to someone else to check against IRC to look for potential leaks in ISD. 5/ Someone hacks said email system, finds email, creates dramalama.
One of those steps is illegal, but the complaint here is one of the earlier steps, correct?
We aren't complaining about #1 are we? Because it would unfair to pick on stupid people, right? .. hang on, that covers #2 too... #3, well, that's kinda how the internet works - shame super internet security wizard who owns refering site doesn't know how to mask that. #4 CCP have a legal right to protect themselves from NDA breaches, so I am sure you wouldn't argue that they are not allowed to use information harvested on their own website to help protect them from possible leaks of confidential information, right? If they crossmatched that information with IP address of users of IRC channels which require NDA covered information (passwords or somesuch) to join then there is no privacy issue. #5 A crime. (Nope, because you would rather be angry about some evil CCP conspiracy than something as mundane as criminal activity).
Is that an accurate summary, or have I missed anything out?
## Added, if CCP had all that information and it had pointed to someone in CCP or ISD leaking information to, say, a large Eve alliance and *not* used it or acted upon it, then that would be a drama too, right? I struggle to *get* some people and their situation moral codes.
アニメ漫画です
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:51:00 -
[42]
Volunters should not have access to the server log files.
It is the first time I hear they are given that. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.23 20:18:00 -
[43]
I am Confuse
Allow me to break this down. I am confuse.
Quote: Last weekend external resources related to the Interstellar Services Department (ISD), EVE's volunteer program, were compromised which led to the theft of some volunteer program related data but also information about specific volunteers
Which volunteers? Only the ISD? If that's the case... why not contact those ISD people involved? Why the dev blog?
Quote: As a result, we are being extra careful here, as this first and foremost pertains to the volunteer program and has no effect on our EVE Online operations or any customer data whatsoever.
Well volunteer program IS an eve online operation. So that's fairly inaccurate.
Quote: It is important to highlight for the avoidance of any doubt that this information was stolen from areas operated outside CCP¦s infrastructure and is therefore not related to anyone's EVE player account data
So my account(s) wont be accessed due to this?
Quote: Player billing information, personal information, and character/game information all remain completely secure and unaffected, as well as CCP corporate pathways and e-mail, Tranquility, databases, etc.
So my account(s) wont be accessed due to this? They wont know who I am?
Quote: All players, particularly those who are or have been in the EVE Online volunteer program, should be aware that any e-mails sent from the @eve-crc.net domain are bogus and have been sent from someone pretending to be an official representative of CCP.
Again. If this pretains those ISD. You have the info and can contact those people. So more realistically it sounds like ISD has done background checks or something on people? After all... the last BH dev blog there even says that very very few volunteers actually become bug hunters. I'm thinking now that there's some sort of background check or something going on. Not only that... there is this rule...
You may not give false information or intentionally hide or withhold any information, including billing and contact information, when registering your EVE Online account subscription. You are responsible for keeping this information accurate and current.
Perhaps ISD is doing this? The 1/100 or whatever it was who did become BH were the 1/100 who didnt follow this rule? Only verified through background checks?
Quote: We are taking this issue extremely seriously and have launched a full investigation. In the meantime, to be on the safe side, we have shut down all ISD servers and services to protect our volunteers and the integrity of the program and are now working diligently toward strengthening and improving our practices and policies pertaining to the volunteer program to ensure its ongoing success and valuable contribution to the EVE Online experience.
So you dont want any more information to be compromised and come out. In case they hadnt copied everything yet?
So what the hell was this dev blog? Do you not know what a dev blog is for? It's not for news. It's for developers to blog about the things they are developing.
OHHHHH. So this is what you are developing? Background checks and information mining? ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
T'san Manaan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:00:00 -
[44]
I KNEW IT!!!!!
The elephant that wrecked the server room a couple weeks back was actually a distraction for an "Ocean's Eleven" style theft of some sort of data.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:10:00 -
[45]
any idea who is behind this?
that line sounds so wierd. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:36:00 -
[46]
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:44:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Hubris on 23/09/2009 22:44:56
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 23/09/2009 19:49:50
Originally by: Quinn Foute
even if they wouldnt be related- (they are related, but lets pretent they are not) the question why ISD members have access to website server logs and are with knowledge of at least one ccp employee collecting them to be compared against other sources remains.
Let me just get this drama straight in my head:
1/ People go to the site of a known CCP hater (who states he has used IP cross-matching to "unmask" ccp staff) without masking their IP. 2/ They click on a link to a dev-blog from that certain persons site. 3/ The IP address from refer is logged. 4/ Someone emails that list of IPs to someone else to check against IRC to look for potential leaks in ISD. 5/ Someone hacks said email system, finds email, creates dramalama.
One of those steps is illegal, but the complaint here is one of the earlier steps, correct?
We aren't complaining about #1 are we? Because it would unfair to pick on stupid people, right? .. hang on, that covers #2 too... #3, well, that's kinda how the internet works - shame super internet security wizard who owns refering site doesn't know how to mask that. #4 CCP have a legal right to protect themselves from NDA breaches, so I am sure you wouldn't argue that they are not allowed to use information harvested on their own website to help protect them from possible leaks of confidential information, right? If they crossmatched that information with IP address of users of IRC channels which require NDA covered information (passwords or somesuch) to join then there is no privacy issue. #5 A crime. (Nope, because you would rather be angry about some evil CCP conspiracy than something as mundane as criminal activity).
Is that an accurate summary, or have I missed anything out?
## Added, if CCP had all that information and it had pointed to someone in CCP or ISD leaking information to, say, a large Eve alliance and *not* used it or acted upon it, then that would be a drama too, right? I struggle to *get* some people and their situation moral codes.
MR K has been right too many times in the past for IA not to look into this.
So until more information surfaces your opinions and supositions are not useful. Stick to facts and the truth will eventually come out. - uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hubris
So until more information surfaces your opinions and supositions are not useful. Stick to facts and the truth will eventually come out.
Interestingly I think this applies more to you than me.
アニメ漫画です
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.23 22:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Hubris
So until more information surfaces your opinions and supositions are not useful. Stick to facts and the truth will eventually come out.
Interestingly I think this applies more to you than me.
at least i openly state mine opinions are mine and i would like to wait until the full truth is out. I also gave out a few examples of what ip's can be used for. To me its an issue of privacy and security of ccp user information. Its obviously something different to you.
- uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 23:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hubris
at least i openly state the opinions are mine and i would like to wait until the full truth is out. I also gave out a few examples of what ip's can be used for. To me its an issue of privacy and security of ccp user information. Its obviously something different to you.
I guess I just don't agree with some of the points on which you base your arguement.
Your IP address, for example, is not private data (certainly according to that data protection act (uk)). You spread it all around the internet all the time. I could post an image in this thread (or a link to one), and then farm IP address all day long. If you don't want people to discover your IP address you are going to need to use an anonymizing proxy of some sort - which I would have expected any sensible person to do if they visit mr K's site anyway, what with his self confessed love of IP matching (your hero doing what you are raging about - how dare he!).
I feel your hubris is less than sincere.
アニメ漫画です
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.23 23:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Hubris
at least i openly state the opinions are mine and i would like to wait until the full truth is out. I also gave out a few examples of what ip's can be used for. To me its an issue of privacy and security of ccp user information. Its obviously something different to you.
I guess I just don't agree with some of the points on which you base your arguement.
Your IP address, for example, is not private data (certainly according to that data protection act (uk)). You spread it all around the internet all the time. I could post an image in this thread (or a link to one), and then farm IP address all day long. If you don't want people to discover your IP address you are going to need to use an anonymizing proxy of some sort - which I would have expected any sensible person to do if they visit mr K's site anyway, what with his self confessed love of IP matching (your hero doing what you are raging about - how dare he!).
I feel your hubris is less than sincere.
you base your argument on hating mr k. So you bring nothing new to the discussion.
Many companies around the world do wrong things that are still legal all the time. But as a trade off gain a bad amount of publicity for doing so. Law does not dictate opinion or for that matter cover such odd conflicts of interest such as this one. Would you want your video game company to be known for spreading out details of ip addresses from users for possible nefarious behavior? I know i wouldnt want that reputation. - uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.23 23:58:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Avon on 23/09/2009 23:58:48
Originally by: Hubris
you base your argument on hating mr k. So you bring nothing new to the discussion.
If that is the best strawman you can build I don't think I have much of a challenge on my hands. I don't *hate* mr K, I've never met the guy. He may be real chill and donate lots to good causes.
My arguments stand on their own merit. As you would rather attack me than them it would seem you too realise that.
アニメ漫画です
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.24 00:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 23/09/2009 23:58:48
Originally by: Hubris
you base your argument on hating mr k. So you bring nothing new to the discussion.
If that is the best strawman you can build I don't think I have much of a challenge on my hands. I don't *hate* mr K, I've never met the guy. He may be real chill and donate lots to good causes.
My arguments stand on their own merit. As you would rather attack me than them it would seem you too realise that.
not attacking you, just pointing out you have made negative and hateful comments toward mr k for his uncovering of information previously.
for example this snippet of a tirade you had in the past.
Quote: Originally Posted by Avon
People like you honestly sicken me to the core. What good are you trying to do? What do you want to achieve?
All I see is an attempt to destroy the work of a person who plays Eve, for no reason other than setting off a drama-bomb.
I hope you get banned, and the "source" of this information too. His sick phishing schemes are bad enough, but what is his motivation here?
That guy needs more than banning, he needs help.
I am serious.
So you thoughts are known to me on mr k uncovering information in the past. You want him banned and you do not like him at all.
I am not trying to argue with you because, thats a useless waste of time for me (so no straw man BS). I just want the allegations answered.
How about instead of trying to rationalize it, which has no merit BTW. Try waiting for the investigation to finish which has a lot of merit.
- uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 01:15:00 -
[54]
Hubris, I thought we were going to just stick to facts?
That quote is very cool and damning .. except it wasn't me who made that post, was it?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468187&page=1#3
Why oh why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot?
アニメ漫画です
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Alex Clomsaver
Minmatar Roswell Project Victimz
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Posted - 2009.09.24 01:49:00 -
[55]
Avon, why is it that you and people like you always believe that kugu is lying when all of the information he has posted over the past two years has been true*. I mean surely you all will eventually come to accept that the stuff he posts is not just made up out of thin air, right? Oh, also I've noticed a few factual errors among the things you have asserted to be "true" but those are for you all to figure out.
*Well, occasionally edited to something approximately true to protect sources.
--- The other one. |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 01:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hubris Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories
Originally by: CCP Ginger It is important to highlight for the avoidance of any doubt that this information was stolen from areas operated outside CCP¦s infrastructure
Hope that helps.
/Ben
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.24 01:59:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Hubris on 24/09/2009 02:01:25
Originally by: Avon Hubris, I thought we were going to just stick to facts?
That quote is very cool and damning .. except it wasn't me who made that post, was it?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468187&page=1#3
Why oh why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot?
Wow my foot it hath no hole from what i can see.
lol you cant even tell when someone is posting your quote as if they wrote it to make fun of you. It was a goonfleet guy for god sake.
your link you just posted time stamp - Posted - 2007.01.31 01:30:00 - Admiral Feelgood goonfleet http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468187&page=1#3
the link to what i posted - timestamp - Posted - 2007.01.31 00:39:00 Avon http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468135&sid=974933803
same day but sure enough you posted first and this random goonfleet guy copied what you wrote. Good attempt at googling yourself into a corner. LOL
May want to look at your own foot to see the hole that you just expertly shot in it.
boooooooosh. sorry had to do it.
- uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.24 02:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Hubris Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories
Originally by: CCP Ginger It is important to highlight for the avoidance of any doubt that this information was stolen from areas operated outside CCP¦s infrastructure
Hope that helps.
/Ben
not quite putting the two together, ginger does not say anything about hacked emails............ we wont know how it was obtained until the investigation is over or someone reliable releases the information. - uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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StainLessStealRat
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.09.24 04:56:00 -
[59]
So on the leaked email that said something like "should i tell Ginger of this he allready knows i am tracking ip's"
So ginger had knowladge of this and seems he was involved or at least new people where tracking isp's and cross cheaking themagainst another EvE-O related site. So you choose the same person too blog and investigate the problem
Another CCP triumph!
P.S cheak battleDB or Kugu for more info as it seems CCP will try sweep it under the carpet yet again!
I hope Mazz and other CSM will be informed of the severity as my trust in CCP is 0.
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fuze
Gallente Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.09.24 05:53:00 -
[60]
What has written now only seems to be a poor excuse that the information about it leaked. How it was leaked might be questionable as well.
I do hope CCP Ginger will address the fact that he might have known ISD members were harvesting IP's. Since that original message caused this dev blog it seems that it is valid.
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