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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 07:21:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Alex Clomsaver Avon, why is it that you and people like you always believe that kugu is lying when all of the information he has posted over the past two years has been true*. I mean surely you all will eventually come to accept that the stuff he posts is not just made up out of thin air, right? Oh, also I've noticed a few factual errors among the things you have asserted to be "true" but those are for you all to figure out.
*Well, occasionally edited to something approximately true to protect sources.
Actually I don't assume he is lying at all. The point I make is that I don't see what people are crying about if it is true.
People ask CCP to audit its staff and helpers, and then complain when they appear to do exactly that. It would seem that the opinion is held that it would be okay for an inside source to leak to K's site, and in fact any attempt to prevent that would be unacceptable, but if the same method was used to trace a leak to a group seen to be "the other side" (as K himself does), that would be fine. In fact, not acting upon it in that case would be a drama in itself.
The issue is that certain people will, when faced with two identical situations, only be "outraged" at the one that suits their bias. A point I subtly made with the quote Hubris used (a little too subtle for him it would seem).
I am far more concerned about people hacking emails than a company doing what it can to police NDAs - especially when "the public" screamed for said company to be more proactive about it.
I'm not saying what K is claiming is untrue (because I don't know) but rather that if it is true, so what? Careful what you wish for.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 07:33:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Hubris Until CCP lets us know what happened "hacked Emails" are just theories
Originally by: CCP Ginger It is important to highlight for the avoidance of any doubt that this information was stolen from areas operated outside CCP¦s infrastructure
not quite putting the two together, ginger does not say anything about hacked emails............
Well to be fair, the words "hacked e-mail" did not originate from either you or I in this thread, but my point was Ginger did use the word "stolen" in his blog, which does at least indicate a good degree of seriousness behind the methods used to obtain the information.
That's my main worry; that as with previous such scandals, the question of *how* this came to be exposed will be completely overlooked in the light of *what* was exposed. The ends cannot justify the means.
/Ben
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Jimmae
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Posted - 2009.09.24 08:23:00 -
[63]
I don't see what you're all hate-mongering about!
Let's summarize:
1. ISD logs its members IPs on its IRC server in order to protect itself from infiltration by certain kinds of people.
That is a good thing isn't it? I mean, ISD aren't quite GMs but I'd suppose they get some shineys to toy with.
2. CCP knew about ISD monitoring its members.
Surprised? I am not. I suppose the ISD guys have to sign a whole lot of paperwork on joining to make sure CCP has the legal means to protect itself.
3. ISD security got breached and information got leaked.
Wow, that's exactly what the whole thing was meant to avoid wasn't it? Well it didn't work but still, I don't understand all the fuzz! If I was with ISD I wouldn't mind them crossreferencing my IP the slightest.
Those who say that the IP list could be used for harmful purposes should be concerned about the people posting it in public instead of bashing ISD and CCP. Those people aren't heros. They are criminals.
IP lists are totally common and nothing criminal. People infiltrating a CCP supported organization (with most likely harmful intentions) to gain information they aren't supposed to have are!
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 09:06:00 -
[64]
LOL at some people wanting to manufacture a drama bomb with this uninteresting news: - Get a clue, you (neither me) don't know what Ginger is talking about, so stop making up stories until you have more info. - Is sad hacking into others to adqueire private information is treated like an hero act, while is even worse than the former actions. - No one is going to get you're real name out of an IP unless you're the government (and even if you are, it's not that easy), it's not the end of the world. - ISD is a colletive group weith many individuals which make a whole load of different stuff, you don't know even if someone claiming to be an ISD is true, and even if it was, you don't know if his actions were; yet you demand the mob to burn ISD.
TL;DR: Stop being one sided and short-minded sheep.
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 11:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 23/09/2009 22:43:45 Let me just get this drama straight in my head:
1/ People go to the site of a known CCP hater (who states he has used IP cross-matching to "unmask" ccp staff) without masking their IP. 2/ They click on a link to a dev-blog from that certain persons site. 3/ The IP address from refer is logged. 4/ Someone emails that list of IPs to someone else to check against IRC to look for potential leaks in ISD. 5/ Someone hacks said email system, finds email, creates dramalama.
One of those steps is illegal, but the complaint here is one of the earlier steps, correct?
Yes. And the reason why is that CCP and their volunter programs need to be trustworthy for me to enjoy eve and this forum is where I voice my concern. Crosschecking my IPs between official and unofficial sources to gather info about me is not something I like people to do to me, especially if they receive money from me on a monthly basis. The first devblog did not put my mind at ease, but CCP will get a second chance if they come up with something more soon.
If the email system was hacked I will assume CCP got enough legal muscle to pursue that. They will deal with that and it will not be on this forum. . you'll never jump alone
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 12:30:00 -
[66]
Quote: Crosschecking my IPs between official and unofficial sources to gather info about me is not something I like people to do to me
I got the impression they were crosschecking the IPs of people in restricted IRC channels on coldfront, although that was just how I read it, rather than players in general. If they wanted to use IP matching to identify potential "trouble makers" in the general playerbase surely they would match against client logon logs?
If this is about IP matching to prevent NDA breaches then I support it (ie, matching IP addresses to ISD/GMs/DEVs in "secure" channels in IRC) because I would rather CCP did that than just sit around for the next T20 scandal to break. If it is about a more general sort of profiling, then I'm not so supportive.
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 12:49:00 -
[67]
That is the problem , what is leaked does not clearly say if it is CCP volunteers that is checked or players in general, but CCP vague statement doesn't give me good enough answer.
And even though it is "only" the volunteers that are affected , why should CCP make a list of what kind of blogs the volunteers read? . you'll never jump alone
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger That is the problem , what is leaked does not clearly say if it is CCP volunteers that is checked or players in general, but CCP vague statement doesn't give me good enough answer.
And even though it is "only" the volunteers that are affected , why should CCP make a list of what kind of blogs the volunteers read?
I thought the list were the IP addresses of people who clicked the link to that blog from a specific website, rather than just people who viewed the blog. As such, there would be a risk of people covered by an NDA leaking information to said site.
There was enough huff and puff demanding that CCP monitor the activities of people with "inside information" more closely. Are the people who called for that suddenly having concerns about privacy?
アニメ漫画です
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:40:00 -
[69]
yes, the IP list was those that had referals from **********'s site. But a guy who happens to read that blog is not autommaticly a hacker and a security risk. That is why it is unethical to log browsing habits and crosscheck with other sites. I can live with alliances trying to do that but not CCP and their semi official sites. . you'll never jump alone
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 19:42:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger yes, the IP list was those that had referals from **********'s site. But a guy who happens to read that blog is not autommaticly a hacker and a security risk. That is why it is unethical to log browsing habits and crosscheck with other sites. I can live with alliances trying to do that but not CCP and their semi official sites.
Someone coming from kugs site, a known hacker, can be considered compromised as kug most likely collects IPs going to his site and thus becomes a possible security risk. As was pointed out in this thread, IPs can be used by the less ethically inclined for nefarious means and I wouldn't put it beyond kug to use the collected IPs to stage a zombie ddos attack or brute force attack on CCP's servers.
CCP is well advised keeping an eye on kug and collecting the IPs possibly compromised by him make reacting to an attack much more efficient.
Personally, I'd rather have my IP collected by CCP than a known hacker. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:47:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Someone coming from kugs site, a known hacker, can be considered compromised as kug most likely collects IPs going to his site and thus becomes a possible security risk.
I am sorry but I just can't stand when people talk about stuffs they no nothing about.
1) there has never been any proof that k was hacking anything. there are only allegations. what he did to unfold the t20 'happening' is reffered to as 'social engineering' and does not have anything to do with 'hacking' except that you need a bit of criminal energy for it. 2) only because his website might possibly log your ip address, does not compromise you in any away and it is in no way a security risk for eve-o when people connecting to it from his website. they only possible security risk lies within the possibility of him trying to use current exploits to inject malicious code to the visitors computer. there is not a single report of this happening since the existence of his website.
Originally by: Abrazzar
As was pointed out in this thread, IPs can be used by the less ethically inclined for nefarious means and I wouldn't put it beyond kug to use the collected IPs to stage a zombie ddos attack or brute force attack on CCP's servers.
He would not need any visitor ip-address information for staging ddos attacks against eve-o. Again, there is not a single report, even from ccp, of this ever having happened.
Originally by: Abrazzar
CCP is well advised keeping an eye on kug and collecting the IPs possibly compromised by him make reacting to an attack much more efficient.
Personally, I'd rather have my IP collected by CCP than a known hacker.
I have no problem with CCP collecting my ip address and the referer data from my http headers, but the allegation is that not ccp did that but the ISD. A group of unpaid volunteers that I personally would not trust with this data. |
Stahlregen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.26 18:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Hubris Edited by: Hubris on 24/09/2009 02:01:25
Originally by: Avon Hubris, I thought we were going to just stick to facts?
That quote is very cool and damning .. except it wasn't me who made that post, was it?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468187&page=1#3
Why oh why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot?
Wow my foot it hath no hole from what i can see.
lol you cant even tell when someone is posting your quote as if they wrote it to make fun of you. It was a goonfleet guy for god sake.
your link you just posted time stamp - Posted - 2007.01.31 01:30:00 - Admiral Feelgood goonfleet http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468187&page=1#3
the link to what i posted - timestamp - Posted - 2007.01.31 00:39:00 Avon http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=468135&sid=974933803
same day but sure enough you posted first and this random goonfleet guy copied what you wrote. Good attempt at googling yourself into a corner. LOL
May want to look at your own foot to see the hole that you just expertly shot in it.
boooooooosh. sorry had to do it.
Nice one Avon.
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Ivanna Nuke
Daralux
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:18:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 27/09/2009 18:19:36 Ok so some ISD guy got hacked? and now some dude somewhere had the isd details... and people are worried about their own passwords? and own accounts and data.
I totally and utterly fail to see how user data would have been compromised in such an attack...
Or perhaps I have this all wrong with trying to get my head around this thread already with the *****ing
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.29 02:37:00 -
[74]
problem is ccp plans its events 6 months in events do it 2 weeks in advance and publizise the event locations in game perhaps everyone in game has a message flash on their screen that something odd has been spotted in such and such a region at least and then let us get there and search around
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