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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.25 05:15:00 -
[1]
The old myrmidon of 2007 was imbalanced yes, but not because of its drones. The 5 heavy myrmidon would be balanced with the current state of nos and webs, given that those two modules were the main sources power for the myrmidon. The myrmidon should be given its 5 heavy drones back, and its active tanking bonus changed to a resistance or hybrid damage bonus. Gallente have lost their place as the damage dealers, especially with the harbinger and hurricane normally outdamaging the myrmidon, and at greater ranges.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.25 05:58:00 -
[2]
keep the active tank bonus, but make it have a hybrid bonus, along with the drone bonus.
as for the drones, up the bandwidth to 100 Mb/s while this isnt 5 heavy drones its still 4 heavies which do some serious damage or 4 heavy logistical drones. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:49:00 -
[3]
If you feel your Myrm is lacking, you are doing something wrong...
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Omu Negru
Caldari Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:52:00 -
[4]
He is right. Myrmidon was nerfed too hard....
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Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:10:00 -
[5]
Myrm dish out already better damage than let's say Harbinger at about same DMG/HP ratio while having +1 mid slot.
While Harbinger can deal more damage at range, there is a significant difference between EM and Kin resistances to compensate the range advantage. Once Myrm get's close it has the damage advantage on it's own side.
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Xetal Maelstrom
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:28:00 -
[6]
To keep it's drone abilities in line with the Vexor -> Myrmidon -> Dominix line, it could use 100mb/s bandwidth and 4 turret slots instead of 6.
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Bleys Breighter
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Posted - 2009.09.25 10:05:00 -
[7]
Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.09.25 10:28:00 -
[8]
Just add drones that use 15 Mbit/sec bandwidth and those 75 Mbit/sec suddenly becomes much more useful. Maybe increase the drone bay, though.
Thinking of light sentries mostly, those would have a niche. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 05:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bleys Breighter Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
The role of the battle cruiser is battleship weaponry while sacrificing armor for speed, both in eve and in the real world. It is just a fat vexor now. Whoever is suggesting 4 turret slots and 100bw is asking for a ship weaker than the ishtar and navy vexor with a tank that is weaker than the ishtar. Face it, the myrmidon was nerfed far too much, and it cannot even produce harbinger nor hurricane damage at close range without totally sacrificing its tanking bonus.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.26 05:24:00 -
[10]
I wouldn't say the myrmidon is a bad ship, it's actually one of the most powerful BC's in 1v1 or 2v2 combat if you fit it right. That said I think it should be better focused on drones. I'd drop it to 4 high slots with reduced fitting resources and give it the ability to fly 5 heavies. -----------------------------------------------------
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 05:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Bleys Breighter Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
The role of the battle cruiser is battleship weaponry
Oh jesus. Please look at the other battlecruisers, they all use CRUISER SIZED WEAPONRY. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Bleys Breighter Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
The role of the battle cruiser is battleship weaponry
Oh jesus. Please look at the other battlecruisers, they all use CRUISER SIZED WEAPONRY.
Yet they yield battleship damage. Examples: sleipnir, astarte, brutix, harbinger, hurricane, absolution
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Bleys Breighter Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
The role of the battle cruiser is battleship weaponry
Oh jesus. Please look at the other battlecruisers, they all use CRUISER SIZED WEAPONRY.
Yet they yield battleship damage. Examples: sleipnir, astarte, brutix, harbinger, hurricane, absolution
Slepnir? Astarte? Absolution? You're trying to compare the Myrmidon to a command ship?? Are you insane? Those don't even remotely relate? O_o;;
and BS damage is generally in the 700-1100 (with some) range. I don't see the Brutix, Harbinger, or even the Hurricane meeting those levels.
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stealthbug and BS damage is generally in the 700-1100 (with some) range. I don't see the Brutix, Harbinger, or even the Hurricane meeting those levels.
Do you ever fit damage mods? I'm just curious because the brutix easily gets 800, the harbinger easily gets 700, and the hurricane varies depending on the ammo you use. Even then, why should the ishtar and gila be able to use 5 heavy drones while the myrmidon gets shafted?
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Jared D'Uroth
Minmatar Universal Peace Operation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Stealthbug and BS damage is generally in the 700-1100 (with some) range. I don't see the Brutix, Harbinger, or even the Hurricane meeting those levels.
Do you ever fit damage mods? I'm just curious because the brutix easily gets 800, the harbinger easily gets 700, and the hurricane varies depending on the ammo you use. Even then, why should the ishtar and gila be able to use 5 heavy drones while the myrmidon gets shafted?
Brutix can get 800 without a tank, Harbi doesn't even get close 700 without severely gimping its tank(800mm is a gimped tank, yes) and Hurricane gets about 600.
You're either a troll, or really f*ckin stupid. Why should my Vagabond go so fast, yet my hurricane be so slow???? Gila changes have not been finalized, and even if they were, it still doesn't do as much damage as the Myrmi.
Myrmi right now does > 800 if you fit it right(and yes, with a tank). ===
Quote: I think the point [of t3] was that your foes would never know how you were fit, adding the element of surprise. Like, surprise!!! I decided to go with EHP and DPS.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:52:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 06:52:38
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Bleys Breighter Its a battle cruiser, not a Dominix or a Vexor. Its intended that it use warfare links.
The role of the battle cruiser is battleship weaponry
Oh jesus. Please look at the other battlecruisers, they all use CRUISER SIZED WEAPONRY.
Yet they yield battleship damage. Examples: sleipnir, astarte, brutix, harbinger, hurricane, absolution
Sleipnir is a Command ship. Astarte is a Command ship. Absolution is a Command ship.
What about the Ferox? Drake? Cyclone? Prophecy?
You conveniently slipped in a few ships that are of Equal or Greater cost than battleships with more intensive skills, whilst leaving out some of the poorer performing (Poorer than the myrmidon) Battlecruisers.
Battlecruisers are supposed to be a Midway between Cruisers and Battleships. NOT A direct competitor to Battleships. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:53:00 -
[17]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 26/09/2009 06:56:06
Originally by: Jared D'Uroth Brutix can get 800 without a tank, Harbi doesn't even get close 700 without severely gimping its tank(800mm is a gimped tank, yes) and Hurricane gets about 600.
You're either a troll, or really f*ckin stupid. Why should my Vagabond go so fast, yet my hurricane be so slow???? Gila changes have not been finalized, and even if they were, it still doesn't do as much damage as the Myrmi.
Myrmi right now does > 800 if you fit it right(and yes, with a tank).
shield tanking the harbi doesn't gimp it and yields over 700 dps
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sleipnir is a Command ship. Astarte is a Command ship. Absolution is a Command ship.
What about the Ferox? Drake? Cyclone? Prophecy?
You conveniently slipped in a few ships that are of Equal or Greater cost than battleships with more intensive skills, whilst leaving out some of the poorer performing (Poorer than the myrmidon) Battlecruisers.
Battlecruisers are supposed to be a Midway between Cruisers and Battleships. NOT A direct competitor to Battleships.
Are you talking about eve or in actuality because you're wrong in both cases.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 06:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Jared D'Uroth
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Stealthbug and BS damage is generally in the 700-1100 (with some) range. I don't see the Brutix, Harbinger, or even the Hurricane meeting those levels.
Do you ever fit damage mods? I'm just curious because the brutix easily gets 800, the harbinger easily gets 700, and the hurricane varies depending on the ammo you use. Even then, why should the ishtar and gila be able to use 5 heavy drones while the myrmidon gets shafted?
Brutix can get 800 without a tank, Harbi doesn't even get close 700 without severely gimping its tank(800mm is a gimped tank, yes) and Hurricane gets about 600.
You're either a troll, or really f*ckin stupid. Why should my Vagabond go so fast, yet my hurricane be so slow???? Gila changes have not been finalized, and even if they were, it still doesn't do as much damage as the Myrmi.
Myrmi right now does > 800 if you fit it right(and yes, with a tank).
shield tanking the harbi doesn't gimp it
Now you are definately trolling. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 26/09/2009 07:11:22
Originally by: Blane Xero Now you are definately trolling.
Do you even pvp?
Quote: 1. You don't know the difference between a Command ship (TECH TWO, AN ETERNITY OF TRAINING) and a Battlecruiser (TECH ONE. COUPLE OF WEEKS TRAINING)
2. You are trying to shield tank an amarrian ship with FOUR MIDSLOTS. Idiot.
3. You are not producing any argument other than claiming i am wrong and you are right.
1. The vexor and ishtar are the same hull (similar to how the hurricane and sleipnir relate), and even then the vexor can out damage the ishtar. This is a moot point. 2. Do you pvp? 3. You're trying to justify the myrmidon's mediocrity with other horrible ships. Don't you agree that it would be more beneficial to instead fix said ships rather than make them all terrible?
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero Now you are definately trolling.
Do you even pvp?
Do you? Where to you fit your tackle, MWD And injector with your magical Shield-tanked Harbinger? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero Now you are definately trolling.
Do you even pvp?
Do you? Where to you fit your tackle, MWD And injector with your magical Shield-tanked Harbinger?
Protip: try this 7 heavy pulse 2 lse mwd disruptor dcu 3 heatsinks 2 nanofibers 3 shield rigs
wow that was difficult
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:18:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 07:23:18
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Blane Xero Now you are definately trolling.
Do you even pvp?
Do you? Where to you fit your tackle, MWD And injector with your magical Shield-tanked Harbinger?
Protip: try this 7 heavy pulse 2 lse mwd disruptor dcu 3 heatsinks 2 nanofibers 3 shield rigs
wow that was difficult
No but it is a god-damn terrible set-up. It has terrible resists, low shields, high recharge meaning passive tanking and buffer tanking are out. Top it off with the signature being the signature being buffed up due to the rigs and enjoy your "700dps Harbi"
Edit: and without an injector you're not going to be running those guns for very long and even less to with the MWD fitted/being pulsed. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Blane Xero No but it is a god-damn terrible set-up. It has terrible resists, low shields, high recharge meaning passive tanking and buffer tanking are out. Top it off with the signature being the signature being buffed up due to the rigs and enjoy your "700dps Harbi"
Are you even trying this out? It has over 50k ehp... If you want to continue to derail the thread, go ahead but you will be reported.
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Azeroth Uluntil
Caldari Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:36:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Azeroth Uluntil on 26/09/2009 07:36:09 Directed at Blane Xero.
You sir, are an idiot. The setup he suggested is pretty similar to the shield based hurricane that people currently use. A harbinger fit as such does around 720-760 dps, depending on skills with multifrequency, or 600-638 with scorch. A hurricane with a similar fit does 550-591 dps with barrage, and 640-665 with RF emp(noone uses hail anyhow) Its called skirmish warfare, and it works wonders.
Also, you can run everything for about 3 ish minutes assuming near max cap, which is more than enough time for a fight.
Get some pvp experience before you state a fit is crap as fact.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 07:55:00 -
[25]
[Harbinger, SHIELDLOL] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hammerhead II x5
44k EHP, 54 EM, 51 Therm, 47.5 kin, 56 EXP resists. 26HP/sec Passive shield recharge. 720 DPS (, 1731 volley damage with Heavy Pulse II's and Conflag (7.2km optimal, 4.8km Falloff + 5 Hammerhead II's) 570 DPS without drones. No backup drones.
1.3km/sec Max speed with MWD, 220~ max without. 2335 sig with mwd, 389 without, which is just shy of an Apocalypse.
To top it off it also needs a 5% CPU implant to fit, it has no ways of surviving anything with even one nuet, it has no spare powergrid/CPU (even with 5% implants) for a NOS of its own.
So to recap - TL:DR - Failfit. Might be good for bait, but that is about it. Even then a plated harbinger is much much better. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Neriel Odershank
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Posted - 2009.09.26 08:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: abrasive soap Gallente have lost their place as the damage dealers, especially with the harbinger and hurricane normally outdamaging the myrmidon, and at greater ranges.
This is the sad truth.
Gallente was the top damage dealer, while other races could stay at a greater range and have a higher speed. This is no more. All the "BALANCING" is just bulls*it.
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abrasive soap
Failed Diplomacy Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 08:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 08:08:39 [Harbinger, SHIELDLOL] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hammerhead II x5
44k EHP, 54 EM, 51 Therm, 47.5 kin, 56 EXP resists. 26HP/sec Passive shield recharge. 720 DPS (, 1731 volley damage with Heavy Pulse II's and Conflag (7.2km optimal, 4.8km Falloff + 5 Hammerhead II's) 570 DPS without drones. No backup drones.
1.3km/sec Max speed with MWD, 220~ max without. 2335 sig with mwd, 389 without, which is just shy of an Apocalypse.
To top it off it also needs a 5% CPU implant to fit, it has no ways of surviving anything with even one nuet, it has no spare powergrid/CPU (even with 5% implants) for a NOS of its own.
So to recap - TL:DR - Failfit. Might be good for bait, but that is about it. Even then a plated harbinger is much much better.
Originally by: Azeroth Uluntil Directed at Blane Xero. You sir, are an idiot. The setup he suggested is pretty similar to the shield based hurricane that people currently use. A harbinger fit as such does around 720-760 dps, depending on skills with multifrequency, or 600-638 with scorch. A hurricane with a similar fit does 550-591 dps with barrage, and 640-665 with RF emp(noone uses hail anyhow) Its called skirmish warfare, and it works wonders. Also, you can run everything for about 3 ish minutes assuming near max cap, which is more than enough time for a fight. Get some pvp experience before you state a fit is crap as fact.
What works for the Hurricane is not guarentee'd to work for the Harbinger. Remember, without the cap the harbinger has no DPS except drones. After that its just a case of either killing or tanking the drones.
In EFT it may look peachy but its not. Its simply not going to kill anything with half a brain, and if you're ganking clueless people there are better, cheaper alternatives that do not require that 5% CPu implant which can go for anything from 100-265mill.
named and faction warp disruptors are simply a myth you are basing your price figures off of failing to click the other tab in eft
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 08:47:00 -
[28]
Lowest CPU named still needs a 25mill implant. Or you can go with A domination/republic fleet warp disrupter but hey that'll only set you back 100-125mill. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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McFly
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Posted - 2009.09.26 09:01:00 -
[29]
I would like to see the drone nerf removed, IE: Myrmidon and Eos, getting their drones back. But the OP's arguments aren't very valid. and sorry bro but a lot of your evidence is not very good. Especially when you said that the vexor out DPSes the Ishtar. um sorry but way off.
@ Blane: you can't convince people who don't know what they are even talking about, that they are wrong.
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Azeroth Uluntil
Caldari Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:05:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Azeroth Uluntil on 26/09/2009 10:06:31
Originally by: Blane Xero Lowest CPU named still needs a 25mill implant. Or you can go with A domination/republic fleet warp disrupter but hey that'll only set you back 100-125mill.
I've personally seen more setups with 3X core defence field extenders, but I guess the resist rigs are fine.
Cpu is tight, but it fits with a cheap named dcu and a named warp disruptor, which is what the setup usually calls for.
I think you need to remember that fights actually do happen off stations, or in 0.0 for that matter.
Edit: What idiots actually use conflag?
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