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Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.09.26 16:33:00 -
[1]
I can see the board trolls now ... CCP says scamming is ok. I know what they say I'm not asking them to change a game mechanic I'm asking them to CHANGE THEIR POLICY.
Why? Its ruining the game. This game is now almost unplayable for me and many others because of the rampant scamming and crazy crap that goes on in Jita and a few of the smaller trade hubs. Its one thing for CCP to say it against the rules and then not strongly enforce them so it happens deal with it. Its a whole other thing for CCP to blatantly say its ok. Then EVERYONE does it with 0 fear and its destroying this game.
I'm going to explain what I'm talking about. I had an auction contract up for 500 mil 2.5 billion buyout. I get a mesg from someone that says they want to buy it for 1 billion isk. As a buyout. No one had bid yet so if I want to go ahead and get that 1 billion I have to cancel my contract. So I decide I'd rather take that fast money. I cancel the contract. Then I tell the person I will setup an item exchange and tell them I won't use a trade window. They then just leave chat.
Why did they leave? Either A they just flat out wanted to grief me cause they are mean, or B it was a trade window scammer that realized I'd already been hit that way and wasn't stupid enough to fall for it. I'm 99% sure it was a scammer cause the moment I said I wouldn't use a trade window they left the chat. Ether way the end result is I'm out the 6.7 million isk that I paid in brokers fee's and the deposit.
The reason I'm complaining is because the only way mechanically I could have saved myself that money was the be a mind reader. Fact is that money was lost because this person was a scammer. They don't care that I lost isk. If CCP would do something about them then the frequency of this type of event would go WAY down. As it is now it happens to your average player once a week and its completely ruining the game.
People play games to have fun. Some people like the thrill of a fight or a good business deal. Even the most hardened player doesn't want to be scammed attacked lied to and beat down WITH NO RECOURSE. At least in 0.0 you can fight back gain new allies and counter attack... or you just lose and retreat to empire etc etc. With these scammers you can't do anything. There is no solution for the player.
I can hear the board trolls now... I shouldn't have canceled the contract. I should be smarter blah blah blah. That's great blame the victim. Its my fault that I can't see through a person lies and deceptions through the internet with the mind reading abilities you obviously have perfected and I need to work on...:)
The entire point of a game like this is to provide a framework for people to exist in. A place of imagination. The current framework gives the griefers and scammer the advantage. They take no risk and reap all the rewards. The regular player trying to play the game and have fun takes ALL the risk and more often than not gets screwed for his efforts. At some point he's going to realize he's getting screwed, paying CCP to have them screw him over, and then he's just going to leave.
So CCP I'm telling you right now. Its not fun anymore. You need to fix it.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.09.26 16:58:00 -
[2]
This is clearly not the right game for you. There, I said it, now flame me for it and label me a board troll. LOL in advance.
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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.09.26 17:00:00 -
[3]
if you dont like scamming then leave
if you dont want to leave than dont goto jita or any other hub for that matter
if you cant do both of them thne well your screwed
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.09.26 18:45:00 -
[4]
Sigh... Explain to me me WHY this HAS to be part of the game. Give me one good reason why the player base should be forced to endure a constant assault of spamm and mental abuse from people trying to trick them. Its just a sad day when any game dev thinks this is a good idea.
Note - I'm not saying go all out crazy and try to eliminate ALL scamming or whatever. All I'm saying is there are certain things these people do that the devs could say is against the rules. They could hire ONE person to be the scam guy and sure he'd be over worked at first but just the shear act of making it officially against the rules 70% of it would disappear within a few weeks.
You tell me to leave that this isn't the game for me blah blah blah. The last time someone seriously told me that was when I was playing SWG. It was about 6 months after release. All the board trolls said the same things to all the people whining. Don't like it leave blah blah. Can I have you stuff.. blah blah. I'll tell you the same thing I told them. Watch what you wish for.
A month later SWG went from 600,000 people down to like 40,000. They broke like 10 zillion records when the game was released for the most people to join a new MMO blah blah. Then broke even more records for the most people to leave. I know because I was one of the last to leave. I made that choice one day when I went into the main big town that not 3-4 week before had 50-100 people in town on an average day. The bar alone has 30 people dancing chatting etc. That day... ONE girl dancing. Maybe 15 total in town... ON A SATURDAY at 3pm EST.
Yes I understand eve is a slightly different situation but you know what all it takes is one bad patch. Just imagine if they completely screw the pooch with this sov patch. People take stock of the game and realize... scammers... ninja salvaging... crappy sov mechanics.... later...
Combine that with say the new star trek MMO being completely and totally awesome (I'm not saying it is I'm saying hypothetically it is) and BOOM suddenly eve is topping out at 12k people online PEEK. With 1/2 the registered playing accounts we have now.
Then you know who the scammers and are scamming and the pies are griefing and the ninjas are salvaging... yep NO ONE they all left. You think it can't happen? Go ask Sony if they thought it could. It was STAR WARS. STAR FREAKING WARS! Everyone left anyway.
Owe and btw once that sort of things happens. Once everyone leaves. They don't come back. They finally listened to the players and fixed SWG. Very few people went back. Even when they made that spaceship patch. Don't delude yourself into believing that Eve is immune.
I want to make this clear... My problem with the scamming is two fold. #1 - It does nothing to improve the game. #2 - there is NO RECOURSE. NO way to fight back.
Even with ninja salvaging hell a corp mate was laughing his ass off in channel the other day cause a ninja got blown up salvaging his mish and got to close to a spawn that had no agro. Pie's in lowsec and 0.0. Get a gang together go kick there ass. 0.0 Sov fights same diff. Even highsec ganks you have SOME way to defend yourself. SOME way to fight back...
Scamming you have what? Harsh language? All that gets you is bashed on by all the people telling you stop stop whining or quit.
Beyond any of this it teaches a HORRIBLE lesson. It teaches people (especially kids) that stealing and scamming people is ok. WTH... grow a brain this is not what games should be a about.
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.26 18:50:00 -
[5]
Fist of all you've already identified where you went wrong on this attempted transaction, cancelling the contract before you had established that the potential buyer was willing to buy it via private contract. If you know Jita is full of scammers, would it not have been prudent to first establish that they weren't trying to pull a fast one, then cancel and contract it directly to them?
To be honest, I completely ignore local around trade hubs, everybody knows that most of what you see is only worth reading for amusement value. Why not simply use it as a learning experience, ignore the scammers in local, since you know that the chances of you getting a genuine trade are pretty slim and ensure that anyone who contacts you like this again is willing to buy the item(s) on private contract before you take it down.
I very much doubt that CCP are going to change their policy, so now you have a choice, be more cautious, ignore the scammers and be like most other traders in the hubs or feel that you are suffering an injustice. If something like this happens to me, I tend to look at where I went wrong and adapt my actions accordingly.
------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.09.26 18:55:00 -
[6]
Sigh... Explain to me me WHY this HAS to be part of the game
because scamming is part of eve it is what makes eve different from other MMOs if you dont like it go cry yourself back to WOW they forbid scamming there and ban scammers
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steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.26 18:58:00 -
[7]
What you fail to realize is that the reason eve is so sucessfull is that it is unique in this. It is designed to be the coldest harshest game out there. This is the kind of gameplay that everyone else pays for. Banning it would have the effect you are afraid that not removing it would have.
Quote: I shouldn't have canceled the contract. I should be smarter blah blah blah. That's great blame the victim. Its my fault that I can't see through a person lies and deceptions through the internet with the mind reading abilities you obviously have perfected and I need to work on...:)
Exactly, it is. Don't trust anyone.
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Drykor
Minmatar Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.09.26 19:00:00 -
[8]
Keep the scamming, but limit the amount of text you can type in designated trade hubs please. Couldn't care less about the scammers but I hate the spam as well.
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Vannogh
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Posted - 2009.09.26 19:04:00 -
[9]
boot scammers off stations so they can be ganked :)
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.09.26 20:10:00 -
[10]
Scammers are the darwin-mechanic of EVE. There's no reason to fall for them. If you do - it's all your fault.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.26 20:38:00 -
[11]
im sorry but i dont think CCP can boost the brain of ppl that fall in those scam
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:00:00 -
[12]
I'll give you a reason, It's easier for CCP to say scams are ok.
Other wise they have to look into every single incident of someone feeling as though they were treated unfairly, scammed. It also absolves them from GUI problems. They can fix GUI problems later and don't have to run around and try to investigate every use of an exploit.
It is perhaps cynical, but then Eve isn't happy bunny land.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:18:00 -
[13]
CCP do something about scammers - "buff them" comes to my mind. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist |
Izzybella
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:25:00 -
[14]
EVE's economy is supposed to be as close to real life as possible. In real life there are scammers. from your dodgy second hand car salesman to your cut-corners builder. They exist in real life and they exist in EVE. Most of the things are so damn obvious that you would have to be a fool to fall for them anyway, and i have no sympathy for the people that do.
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Serge Bastana Fist of all you've already identified where you went wrong on this attempted transaction, canceling the contract before you had established that the potential buyer was willing to buy it via private contract. If you know Jita is full of scammers, would it not have been prudent to first establish that they weren't trying to pull a fast one, then cancel and contract it directly to them?
To be honest, I completely ignore local around trade hubs, everybody knows that most of what you see is only worth reading for amusement value. Why not simply use it as a learning experience, ignore the scammers in local, since you know that the chances of you getting a genuine trade are pretty slim and ensure that anyone who contacts you like this again is willing to buy the item(s) on private contract before you take it down.
I very much doubt that CCP are going to change their policy, so now you have a choice, be more cautious, ignore the scammers and be like most other traders in the hubs or feel that you are suffering an injustice. If something like this happens to me, I tend to look at where I went wrong and adapt my actions accordingly.
Ok next time I promise I will get out my crystal ball and divine the honesty of some random person who priv mesg me on an inet space game... You explain to me what magic test I can do to prove the other persons honesty? I can't make an item exchange contract without first canceling the auction I already have up. Seriously stop assuming you are all knowing and give me a hard cold method... There isn't one.
All smart-ass comments aside it comes down to one simple thing... for me that choice is a lose lose... If its not a scammer and I don't break the auction then I **** off a real customer and they don't buy my stuff. This is my whole gripe. This is what needs to change. The scammer holds all the cards. He can lead me around by the nose no matter how smart I am. No matter how careful I am and it costs him nothing but the smallest amount of TIME. The moment I make the tiniest mistake BOOM gatchya I lose money. More often than not he gains.
Its like playing a first person shooter were the start point on the map for one side is the high ground with a narrow entrance and a snipers nest, and the other teams start point is in an open field in plain view of the sniper. So 1-2 people can sit there and slaughter/spawn kill the other team. You seriously think people after a long enough time will keep playing that game/map. I do that now. I play SW BF II and when Polis Mesa comes along sometimes I just leave and go to another server. Why? Cause on that map droids can walk around outside and clones freaking die. It gives the droids a hugely unfair advantage.
Also this wasn't spamm. I spammed my contract in Jita local legit trade etc etc... 5-10 minutes later I get a private mesg. An offer to buy my stuff for 1 billion isk. Hell I wasn't even in Jita any more. I was 3 hops away headed back to my home.
This whole argument is stupid. If things like scamming people was ok then they would allow people to do it irl also. The entire idea that the devs think its ok is just stupid. The real truth of this is the devs aren't going to do anything about this because they don't want to spend the time and money to pay people irl to run down this stuff and enforce it. Its pretty pathetic.
I love the way its being spun as a "feature". Like anyone but the scammers actually likes this aspect of the game. Smear a little frosting on a turd its still a turd. It just tastes sweet.
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.09.26 22:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Izzybella EVE's economy is supposed to be as close to real life as possible. In real life there are scammers. from your dodgy second hand car salesman to your cut-corners builder. They exist in real life and they exist in EVE. Most of the things are so damn obvious that you would have to be a fool to fall for them anyway, and i have no sympathy for the people that do.
No offense, but seriously... This is the dumbest thing I've seen posted on a mesg board in ages. Haven't you heard of lemon laws? Don't you know that because of exactly what your talking about most states(in the USA) have laws that say you can return the car within 7-10 days and get your money back.
This is exactly my point. Eve does not have a court of law. I can't sue them. I can't call a cop. I have NO RECOURSE. Do you have any idea the chaos that would rein in the real world if it was even close to how eve is right now. Used car salesmen would have a life expectancy of less than 1 yr. Cause you can damn well bet when one ripped me off and the law wouldn't do anything to help I'd blow that dip**** away in a heart beat.
The best part is in Eve concord actually protects the scammers. You can't even get ****ed off and gank them. They are most likely sitting in a station. If they do undock odds are they have nothing of value your just throwing good money after bad letting concord blow you up.
LET ME BE 100% CLEAR!!! I did not fall for the trade window scam this person wanted to use on me. I still have my BPO's. I did however cancel my auction to make the new contract which cost me isk.
What I'm saying is... IF CCP would crack down on the scammers then I could be reasonably sure that person offering me 1 bil isk was a real customer. As things are right now the only safe thing to do is assume its a scammer. So I do nothing right? So why the **** am I playing the game to begin with if I'm trapped into inaction.
I'm going to keep saying this until you people get it. Right now the scammer hold ALL the cards. That is not how things are supposed to be. Ether give people the tools to fight the scammers or crack down on them yourself. Don't just leave paying customers to be feed upon like a dead carcas in the desert.
I don't want to kill fluffy bunny's. I also don't like being FORCED to BE ONE. Which is what I am right now to a scammer. A cute fluffy little bunny just waiting to be eaten. All he has to do is chase me long enough till I get tired and make a mistake.
Frankly CCP its a pathetic way to run a game and YOU KNOW IT. Grow some balls and fix it.
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Spartan dax
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Posted - 2009.09.26 23:03:00 -
[17]
Next time you have someone convo you about an item you have for sale have him setup a WTB contract first.
Problem solved?
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 23:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Scammers are the darwin-mechanic of EVE. There's no reason to fall for them. If you do - it's all your fault.
I agree with this outlook and the "sandbox/as close to real life market" as possible outlook. So I don't want CCP to fix scammers. I will give this thread a bump for fixing scammer spam though. Sure it's "realistic" but games shouldn't be -completely- realistic (besides, in real life you'd get arrested for standing in time square with a megaphone yelling about your super cheap "rolex", there's your realism), and it's really annoying to enter a system and see 10 messages/second. If for no other reason then because most use macro scripts the same way isk sellers do, thus being in violation of CCPs macro policy.
And to OP. 7 mil isn't exactly pocket change, especially if your new, but it isn't then end of the world, people have lost a lot more. You'll recover.
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.26 23:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Darkdood
Originally by: Serge Bastana Fist of all you've already identified where you went wrong on this attempted transaction, canceling the contract before you had established that the potential buyer was willing to buy it via private contract. If you know Jita is full of scammers, would it not have been prudent to first establish that they weren't trying to pull a fast one, then cancel and contract it directly to them?
To be honest, I completely ignore local around trade hubs, everybody knows that most of what you see is only worth reading for amusement value. Why not simply use it as a learning experience, ignore the scammers in local, since you know that the chances of you getting a genuine trade are pretty slim and ensure that anyone who contacts you like this again is willing to buy the item(s) on private contract before you take it down.
I very much doubt that CCP are going to change their policy, so now you have a choice, be more cautious, ignore the scammers and be like most other traders in the hubs or feel that you are suffering an injustice. If something like this happens to me, I tend to look at where I went wrong and adapt my actions accordingly.
Ok next time I promise I will get out my crystal ball and divine the honesty of some random person who priv mesg me on an inet space game... You explain to me what magic test I can do to prove the other persons honesty? I can't make an item exchange contract without first canceling the auction I already have up. Seriously stop assuming you are all knowing and give me a hard cold method... There isn't one.
First of all please read what I actually said, I know the game well enough to know that you can't make two contracts for the same item, what I actually said was determine if they were willing to make a contract first, this guy obviously wouldn't, so if you'd spoken to them first about it first and they'd left the chat channel, then you wouldn't have had to take down the contract.
I was trying to be helpful but you just want to insult the intelligence of anyone who doesn't see it quite your way, hardly the way to get people to see your point of view now is it?
------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Flapjack Peso
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Posted - 2009.09.27 00:41:00 -
[20]
Yeah dude, its called a free market, people can do whatever they want. its the beauty of EvE. so you screwed yourself over? who hasnt? jsut about every player in eve who has been around more than 3 months has done something to lose them iskies.
You are whining about 7 mil or so when you ahve a 2.5 bil buyout item for sale? wtf mate. Move on and learn from the experience. Someone says they want to buy your item at a cheaper price tell them to set up a WTB contract for it. if they refuse, screw em. ANY serious buy will do this, so you dont have to worry about losing business.
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Jacob Mei
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.27 01:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Darkdood Huge whine over nothing.
The less rules on behavior control the better. 98% of all scams in eve prey on a players greed. You admit you were greedy (you wanted to unload the item and were willing to settle for 1 billion so in your haste you took the contract down BEFORE confirming they were going to go through a contract as well) and are now complaining that you lost 6.7 million due to game mechanics? Hit biomass and quit eve or be thankful that in your haste you only lost a pittance.
Eve is about choice. That player choose to try to scam you, you choose to be an idiot and act before you thought and now your choosing to be a douche by demanding that CCP change the game to fit your idea of how it should be played. Thank you but no, we have enough of that with idiots like ccp soundwave trying to ôencourageö players into player corporations.
On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
Ploptops V
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Posted - 2009.09.27 01:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darkdood
Why? Its ruining the game. This game is now almost unplayable for me and many others
the game would be unplayable for me if this was stopped, not only does it bring real life situations to eve to make it more realistic its fun to see tears. :)
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Tau Dades
Caldari Even End of the Universe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 05:50:00 -
[23]
CCP please nerf forum whining.
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Kail Storm
Caldari The Unforgiving.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 05:57:00 -
[24]
Dont get me wrong, I love scamming and totally realize its wha tsets Eve apart from other MMo`s...But I agree with 1 point..
Lets say for a second that the reason scamming is allowed is because eve in all intent and purposes the wild west, where the big guns rule and if the small towns folk dont have balls/ships to fight they hire mercs etc is what the universe is, There is no recourse.
In the wild west if a guy riped you off you could go into the bar he was at and give him both shotgun barrels in the belly and pow...problem solved. If scamming is to be legal and encouraged like it is, it should also be legal and encouraged to kill them on site.
Lets say a guy trade scams you with your x-type shield booster and you kick yourself in the ass there needs to be a killright to kill the ***** in open combat or hire a merc to do so, so you hop in your t3 badass ship you have hunt him in his weakass hauler and blast him away. This would encourage more pvp more in depth interaction and give scammers a real threat...I dont care who you are if you scamm someone the law is after you, the person and if its a high class rich guy a merc or bounty hunter.
Basically it is lop sided, There is no risk for scammer...non at all, tell me risk of scammer besides wasting a full day trying to scam which most guys are happy doing anyways and they are using alts...so a few tings please critique it...
-Scammer has 1 month kill rights
-Is targeted from concord right away for 3 systems where they stil can use gate but will be killed on site, so it will force the scammer to really think out not just scam but getaway...Its super easy to rob a bank and extremely hard to evade capture etc...95% of criminals pull off jobs but get kiled or captured on way out, the good ones have escape plan, even if it means jetting it to a friendly unit that part would be "hott" and anyone would be targeted.
-Characters with less than 2 mil cannot do trades with faction or items listed as rare or over 20 mil isk, this would make sure trade scammers etc couldn`t use alts or trial toons as trials can do trading.
-Merc insurance I think on trades or contracts face to face the seller should be able to insure the trade not on him getting his isk back but hiring all merc corps/Pirates in area to kill the toon as much as possible the more kills to him the better, the more isk. In real life differant criminals dont usually hang out together there is a criminal pecking order, trigger men hate rapists, Armed robbers think cons are *****s etc ...The eve pvp world is always asking for more isk for kills etc ...well this would promote that. ALOT OF IT
-And last bad standings, in real life when you screw someone over the Identity you are using has to be "washed" meaning you dont ever try to con as the same name/Social security number/Identity.....Eve shouldnt be differant Scammers need to become famous and highlighted as such, its not fair for honest pirates to get lo sec status and cons to be able to dock etc. And since no more trials and not as many alts sionce 2 mil sp this would be attainable.
I love scamming and think its very important but as if now there is Non what so ever recourse and there is no danger basically it just takes time, also with these strict rules in place if a thief was smart he could bend them and potentially make tons more isk.
In the real world since laws and computer databases exist the smart cons who come up with new ideas make 1 mil times what they would make if they had to share the con jobs with idiot part timers, this would make cons a profession and actually elevat there game and make this scamming petty bull**** turn into the intelligent long con that I love so much...Make conning harder and ban iditos who los tthere ships getting ganked by pirates and spamming con contracts...they dont deserve to rob anyone as much as the idiot deserves to lose his isk. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.09.27 06:17:00 -
[25]
The problem, Kail, is how do you program the game to recognize what is a scam and what is not? Do you have people mark a checkbox stating "This is a scam?" I agree it sucks that they can hide in a station of behind the safety of CONCORD, but there's not really anything you can do about that which won't be open to abuse in another hundred different ways.
The only thing I wish CCP would do would be to improve the interface. Most scams occur simply because EVE has poor UI design, and then those scammers whine whenever someone proposes to make the UI more useable.
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente Clearly Compensating
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Posted - 2009.09.27 06:54:00 -
[26]
let me introduce you to something called vigilante justice. Its the core concept to eve. You want safety, you make it yourself, you want order, you make it yourself, you want ships, you make them yourself.
you want justice? The wardec button is right there.
(also, this highlights why ccp wants people out of noob corps) __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions! |
Aalu Aullard
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Posted - 2009.09.27 08:03:00 -
[27]
I partially agree: CCP needs to do something about the scammers local chat spammage.
I¦ve played Eve for 2.5 years and never had any problems with scammers.
Question: You had multibillion contract and you are unhappy about losing 7mil? ... ... Srsly...
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Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.09.27 08:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana let me introduce you to something called vigilante justice. Its the core concept to eve. You want safety, you make it yourself, you want order, you make it yourself, you want ships, you make them yourself.
you want justice? The wardec button is right there.
(also, this highlights why ccp wants people out of noob corps)
Wardec is useless against scammers because A) they're alts, and B) they never undock.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 09:28:00 -
[29]
OP doesn't contain any ideas or suggestions.
Locked.
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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