Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
695
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
The latest eve newsletter has a link to the April survey results, also given here
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_playing_behaviour?utm_source=newsletter77&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter77
Why do people start playing eve? The winners were a complex Si Fi game with space exploration, with around 70%+ picking those.
And down at 25%? PvP.
It would appear that the survey takers were not drawn to eve by "the hard core PvP" but because its a Si Fi game.
If CCP wants to attract more players, what should they concentrate on...... http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1078
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sci Fi?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
The game is kinda skiffy, yeah... Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
469
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Orange juice. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
353
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I thought they changed there name to SyFy... Never understood why. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
They have to reach out to the cool kids with Syence Fyction. |
Christopher Dulson
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.
Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners. |
Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
778
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Sci Fi? Science fiction. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2031
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Confirming that more people play with themselves in this game than don't. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
|
Acot Voth
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Interesting stuff. I'd like to see some stats on the player base abilities. I'd assume the average eve player is smarter than the average gamer/person, has 3x the determination, 2x the will power, and 10x the patience. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Progress... ...what is it? Out here progress is numbers Millimetres, kilometres, Head counts, death tolls This is progress.
Colonies burned Ships destroyed People killed Money earned
It all comes at a price and if the price is right I'll set the universe on fire. |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Christopher Dulson wrote:Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.
Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners. Yeah, I noticed that too. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more.
Do you mean subs or simultaneous accounts online?
|
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Since the results of this survey show only 25 percent of players are interested in pvp, CCP should immediately make loading pvp modules require 20 clicks and a secret password while all exploration (67%) frigates get free cookies and a performance increase.
After all, surveys do not lie.
Yonis Kador |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
696
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
We are around 300K active accounts right now? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
780
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
I gotta love this:
Reasons to subscribe to EVE:
(...) PvP: 25% Community: 17% Corporations: 15%
Player style: Mostly play solo: 16% Usually play solo: 39% As much solo as in a group: 25% Usually in a group:15 % Mostly in a group: 5%
Now, think of this: WHAT can you do in game if you're playing solo like 45% of the players do? And very specially... HOW LONG before being given the finger by the UNEXISTANT solo endgame? A clue: 54% of players have been in game for less than three years.
It's friggin' great. It turns that PvP is of marginal interest to new players, nullsec is a little bunch of freaks who barely appeal to 1 in 6 players, almost half the subcribers barely play with other players, half the players weren't here three years ago... and yet the whole EVE development revolves around fuking hisec, ignoring soloers and massaging nullseccer's hurt feelings.
Now please somebody come tell me that the survey was completed by hisec alts of l33t nullsec players. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wow lots of casual solo players
But to be fair it was a survey you had to read so allot of the PVP crowd probably missed that.
Tal
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2425
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
lol, nice, guess that puts things in a different light |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
784
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:lol, nice, guess that puts things in a different light
CCP also has seen the light, too:
Quote:Survey saysGǪ EVE is evidently rather solo-friendly!
Four years ago that would had blown my irony gland, but now... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
|
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
317
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Interesting but not surprising. The Eve-is-only-PVP crowd has started to believe what it reads on the forums, because those people dominate the forums totally. Three years must be the point at which a lot of people leave the game for one reason or another. |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more.
They already have over 100k subs. |
Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
790
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. They already have over 100k subs.
Well you know what I mean..they'd add more subs over all...in the neighborhood of a 100k+. Many players of this game ahve two or more subs. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Acot Voth wrote:Interesting stuff. I'd like to see some stats on the player base abilities. I'd assume the average eve player is smarter than the average gamer/person, has 3x the determination, 2x the will power, and 10x the patience.
I think your way wrong. I do not believe smarter people play EvE over other games. Not even close. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
It would be interesting to know the number of active players as opposed to the number of accounts or characters. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
368
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
696
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad...
Oddly, the few dev comments on what team avatar is working on is cooperative gameplay in hostile environments. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
317
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad...
The PVP noise on the forums in the wake of Incarna scared the devs. People used the NeX store to club them over the head and confused the pay2win issue with the PVP issue. That faction in the game has been crowing about their victory ever since. Meanwhile online usage is stagnant even though CCP claims 400k subscribers and continuous growth. My theory has been that CCP does not want to rock the Eve boat too hard until the revenue stream from Dust gets established. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cool deal. I knew that ring mining involved mining planetary rings in low/null, but I didn't realize that it was forced cooperative gameplay. I've been trying to come up with a similar forced cooperative concept on the front end of the game experience but I keep getting sidetracked by my issues with the new UI.
I don't think the survey should be interpreted as proof that a forced cooperative concept wouldn't be beneficial to player retention, but it does suggest that a minority currently play EVE in this way. And it really does make one wonder why the focus would then be on a cooperative endgame when the risk of life in low/null already lends itself to a cooperative experience.
If anyone has links to statements about the forced cooperative concept, I'd be interested in reading those.
Yonis Kador |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
696
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
From an earlier survey: What people enjoy doing. This one was screen shot from a fanfest video so its hard to read. But the categories are, top to bottom:
Very much like Somewhat like Neither/nor Somewhat dislike Very much dislike
http://eve-files.com/dl/255173
Interestingly, here PvP is the one activity with the highest like rating. But even mining has more than 50% of the respondents liking it to some extent. Mining also has the highest dislike rating. FW had the lowest like rating, but the survey was pre-inferno.
Also these results indicate that many like to do both mining and PvP. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Darius Crendraven
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
How people can sit there and just look at rocks all day is beyond me. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
370
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Darius Crendraven wrote:How people can sit there and just look at rocks all day is beyond me.
i think this is a major misunderstanding... they dont do it ALL day... they are something that is called casual...
and lets be honnest casual eve players pay the same monthly cost as a hardcore player...
PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Saia Tae Arragosa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Darius Crendraven wrote:How people can sit there and just look at rocks all day is beyond me.
We're not just nomming asteroids all day. :) There are spread sheets to manage. Markets to look at. I dunno about anyone else, but while I mine I am doing things that have to do with game. Plus to each his own. You don't like mining. Some people do not like station trading and some do not care to do any PvP. This is a sandbox game after all. |
Saia Tae Arragosa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
334
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Darius Crendraven wrote:How people can sit there and just look at rocks all day is beyond me.
Oh and any miners that do mine 23/7 - they are not real people - those are bots. |
Syndrea Caedrion
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad...
I'm putting this more on CCP...sure, the CSM is going to flap their gums, but CCP is the one that institutes changes. They are clearly out of touch with what their game is and was. And the fact that a rather small group is dictating the course of the game for the majority is a very bad sign indeed. My co-worker who used to play came out and said that he'd give the game two years at most before it crashed and burned if it stays on the path it is on. I find it hard to argue with him.
I did find it amusing that PvP was in the last third of that list though, behind some pretty funny things! |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Do you know when that "earlier" survey was taken Vincent?
Together the two surveys would provide a more complex view of player activity. If you only include the "somewhat dislike" and "very much dislike" responses as what players do not enjoy, well, then they pretty much like everything. Some activities clearly have a larger no opinion response and mining is apparently a love it / hate it activity.
The current survey asked what activities influenced you to subscribe so its probably more useful in initial retention, whereas the second you linked shows what players enjoy once they're better established.
Imo, the most surprising fact in either survey is still the percentage of players flying solo.
Yonis Kador |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
473
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
IBTippia explains why that survey isn't relevant!
Goddam, thanks for that m8! GOOD LAUGH!
I'm still going to blow you up one of these days!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
696
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:Darius Crendraven wrote:How people can sit there and just look at rocks all day is beyond me. Oh and any miners that do mine 23/7 - they are not real people - those are bots.
BURN THE BOTS http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Meanwhile online usage is stagnant.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Stagnant?
Ban Bindy wrote:CCP claims 400k subscribers and continuous growth.
Indeed they do. In fact CCP are close to breaking their all time record for subscriptions to Eve.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/05/e3-2012-ccp-says-it-wants-eve-to-be-around-in-10-20-30-years
I'll past the line that is relevant:
"We are on the cusp of breaking our all-time subscriber record right now,"
Ofc you could just ignore this because you know something that CCP don't or simply because you just don't like being wrong.
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
697
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Do you know when that "earlier" survey was taken Vincent?
Together the two surveys would provide a more complex view of player activity. If you only include the "somewhat dislike" and "very much dislike" responses as what players do not enjoy, well, then they pretty much like everything. Some activities clearly have a larger no opinion response and mining is apparently a love it / hate it activity.
The current survey asked what activities influenced you to subscribe so its probably more useful in initial retention, whereas the second you linked shows what players enjoy once they're better established.
Imo, the most surprising fact in either survey is still the percentage of players flying solo.
Yonis Kador
It was shown at this year's fanfest, and I think i remember taking it late last year. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. They already have over 100k subs.
CCP games yes, Eve online +100k active accounts? brb |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
130
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think its more complicated than that, Alexandra. You sure didn't see devs talking about daily usage stats. I've been watching the usage monitors since Inferno and yes, we're experiencing a downtick in logons. Is it because of Summer? Its difficult to say, though I'm sure that's a great way to deflect criticism. In fact, if Summer always coincides with reduced player activity, why is one of our two major expansions even launched then?
The truth is that there's so many peaks and valleys in the usage stats that the data can probably be interpreted to mean anything.
It does seem to me that the all-time usage graph is beginning to show a steeper-than-normal decline currently, but it'll take weeks to know if its a trend or how serious it is. Because they know the number of unsubs, only CCP knows what's up atm. Ironically, if this activity dip does prove to be atypical, such a defecit would be a pretty serious indictiment of Inferno because of the increased subscription numbers.
But I'm not surprised that they're attracting new accounts. They're offering subscription discounts, free plex in the buddy program, and everywhere I go (because of targeted advertising) I see EVE banners and ads. My facebook page has so many spaceships blasting each other on it, you can smell the frozen corpses. So Inferno may have its issues, but I'm pretty sure the advertising department is still kicking a@@.
Yonis Kador |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
407
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
"a complex Sci Fi game with space exploration" = Going AFK next to a rock for a half hour? |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
What? "EVE is PvP game" concept isn't correct? Can't be. At least not according to this forum.
Seriously - this could explain why game stagnate while CCP prefer to listen its 25% PvP-focused customers instead of real cash cows in high-sec who feel themselves like outcasts while sponsoring FW and null-sec development. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
4% of people play with romantic partners? Given the demographics here, they must be gay. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
292
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm not sure what your point is. Of course most people joined EVE because it is a science fiction spaceship game. This is not surprising.
You are confusing people subscribing because of PvP and people who actually PvP in EVE. For example, I subscribed to EVE because it is a spaceship science fiction MMO and later tried PvP and loved it. I would not be counted in the 25% PvP statistic but I do PvP as my main activity. I suspect I am not alone in this. The "player driven economy" coming in at 54% and the "impact players can have on the universe" coming in at 44% are completed via PvP, whether it be market pvp or sov 0.0 pvp so that is quite a large portion of the population right there.
25% join due to PvP is quite a high number. Especially compared to the 0% who responded to saying they subscribed due to walking in stations and the 0% who said they sub due to mining and the 0% who say they sub because of missioning and the 0% who said they sub due to incursions, etc, etc |
Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
803
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
EVE is not really that great of PvP game., it is different, but it is not that great. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
130
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
To be fair Vaal, neither WiS nor mining were choices in the survey, so no, its not too surprising that pvp got more votes than those activities. But I agree with your main point - the survey is about what attracts people to EVE - not their favorite activities. But still, it was filled out by current players and of 18 options, those players rated 11 others as more-influential than pvp. While this is not the damning fact some will attempt to trump it up to be, it's not exactly a positive either.
Yonis Kador
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
524
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:
If CCP wants to attract more players, what should they concentrate on......
Not Sci Fi, because they have plenty of sci fi and doing more of the same is not going to attract even more people. No, you make changes by doing something different, not by doing more of the same. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:I'm not sure what your point is. Of course most people joined EVE because it is a science fiction spaceship game. This is not surprising.
You are confusing people subscribing because of PvP and people who actually PvP in EVE. For example, I subscribed to EVE because it is a spaceship science fiction MMO and later tried PvP and loved it. I would not be counted in the 25% PvP statistic but I do PvP as my main activity. I suspect I am not alone in this. The "player driven economy" coming in at 54% and the "impact players can have on the universe" coming in at 44% are completed via PvP, whether it be market pvp or sov 0.0 pvp so that is quite a large portion of the population right there.
25% join due to PvP is quite a high number. Especially compared to the 0% who responded to saying they subscribed due to walking in stations and the 0% who said they sub due to mining and the 0% who say they sub because of missioning and the 0% who said they sub due to incursions, etc, etc It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on. |
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:
If CCP wants to attract more players, what should they concentrate on......
Not Sci Fi, because they have plenty of sci fi and doing more of the same is not going to attract even more people. No, you make changes by doing something different, not by doing more of the same. Then maybe they can settle for numbers 2 and 3 on the list and find new mods/ships/etc to introduce and further expand the complexity. And PvE, especially exploration based PvE, could really use an evolution beyond on off sites and missions. A more cohesive and immersive experience building towards a more rewarding conclusion is something that most would welcome I believe. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
715
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Sci Fi?
I'm thinking something to do with the SciFi sim they promised it was going to become? |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
635
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
I like how "exploration sci fi game" somehow equals entitled hisec bears
i didn't join eve for "pvp" either, that doesn't mean i support entitled carebear whining |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7763
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Since the results of this survey show only 25 percent of players are interested in pvp Well, as luck would have it, the survey doesn't actually show that.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
675
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:What? "EVE is PvP game" concept isn't correct? Can't be. At least not according to this forum.
Seriously - this could explain why game stagnate while CCP prefer to listen its 25% PvP-focused customers instead of real cash cows in high-sec who feel themselves like outcasts while sponsoring FW and null-sec development.
It doesn't stagnate. There are battles for sov in nullsec every day. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
130
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Of my contributions to this topic Tippia, I would hope it evident that the one you've referenced was meant to be humorous.
YK |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yonis Kador wrote:Since the results of this survey show only 25 percent of players are interested in pvp Well, as luck would have it, the survey doesn't actually show that. In fact, what it shows is that more players are ignorant of the PVP nature of the activities they participate in than would be predicted by standard models of human intellect.
Two things you can do in Eve that are pure PVE:
1) Ship spinning 2) Walking in Closets. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
411
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.
I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but...
In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does.
1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing.
2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed".
3. We shower them with money and free ships.
We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun.
I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7764
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Of my contributions to this topic Tippia, I would hope it evident that the one you've referenced was meant to be humorous. Of course. It was just the best jumping-off point for that kind of answer.
Disregard That wrote:In fact, what it shows is that more players are ignorant of the PVP nature of the activities they participate in than would be predicted by standard models of human intellect. WeellGǪ maybe. Even so, just because people know about it doesn't mean it'll be the reason for them joining. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.
I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but... In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does. 1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing. 2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed". 3. We shower them with money and free ships. We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun. I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness. And here I thought that was directly attributable to Boat. |
|
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
411
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:43:00 -
[61] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:And here I thought that was directly attributable to Boat.
Nah the only thing boat causes is expensive ship losses when I accidentally disconnect from eve for an hour in the middle of one of his fleets. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Disregard That wrote:And here I thought that was directly attributable to Boat. Nah the only thing boat causes is expensive ship losses when I accidentally disconnect from eve for an hour in the middle of one of his fleets. Don't forget storytime. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.
I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but... In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does. 1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing. 2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed". 3. We shower them with money and free ships. We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun. I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness. Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front. |
Mina Hiragi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 00:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:BURN THE BOTS
Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of a capsuleer mind! JIHAD!
Lipbite wrote:What? "EVE is PvP game" concept isn't correct? Can't be. At least not according to this forum.
Seriously - this could explain why game stagnate while CCP prefer to listen its 25% PvP-focused customers instead of real cash cows in high-sec who feel themselves like outcasts while sponsoring FW and null-sec development.
It probably has something to do with:
The player driven economy: 54%
The impact players can have on the universe: 44%
Oh, right, affecting the gameplay of others in a negative way isn't PVP unless it has cool 'splosions.
|
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but...
In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does.
1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing.
2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed".
3. We shower them with money and free ships.
We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun.
I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.
*Blink Blink*
Wow...
*Blink*
A Goon post that isn't random incoherent hatred.
*Blink Blink*
*Pinches self to make sure self is awake*
Good post, good plan. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1079
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:20:00 -
[66] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Sci Fi? Science fiction. LOL! I know what Sci Fi stands for. I was more answering the OP's question with sarcastic uncertainty. If the majority of players were drawn to the game due to science fiction, it would only make sense to keep marketing in that direction.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
418
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case.
No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it.
I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1383
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Zombies The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
418
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
Olleybear wrote: *Blink Blink*
Wow...
*Blink*
A Goon post that isn't random incoherent hatred.
*Blink Blink*
*Pinches self to make sure self is awake*
Good post, good plan.
You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right? |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case. No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it. I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. I agree with most of this.
But in Eve, PVE is PVP too. |
|
0ccupy 4-4
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
Christopher Dulson wrote:Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.
Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners.
Maybe people like being around other people when they have bodies.
Maybe people are uncomfortable communicating with someone who could have 1000 alts, all in the alliances he's bad mouthing.
Maybe people don't like being around epeen stroking spergie neckbeards who say they hate everything about them and the way they play. |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
174
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.
I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but... In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does. 1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing. 2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed". 3. We shower them with money and free ships. We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun. I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.
The rest of that sucess lies in the yearly Secret Santa. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case. No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it. I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. I agree with most of this. But in Eve, PVE is PVP too. To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
0ccupy 4-4 wrote:Christopher Dulson wrote:Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.
Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners. Maybe people like being around other people when they have bodies. Maybe people are uncomfortable communicating with someone who could have 1000 alts, all in the alliances he's bad mouthing. Maybe people don't like being around epeen stroking spergie neckbeards who say they hate everything about them and the way they play. In today's technological environment, human beings are always more compelling than a coded response. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:37:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case. No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it. I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. I agree with most of this. But in Eve, PVE is PVP too. To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP. You are wrong. You can be scanned down. You can be aggressed. You can be killed. Running missions.
In fact, if you use drones incorrectly, a savvy player can trick your drones into aggressing them without your command.
If you undock, it's PVP. If you use contracts or the market, it's also PVP.
Ship spinning and closet walking are not, however, PVP. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case. No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it. I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. I agree with most of this. But in Eve, PVE is PVP too. To a degree yes, as much as one chooses to involve oneself. Mission running for instance can be very self contained after a few initial investments. Moreso if one doesn't sell loot/salvage or LP. You are wrong. You can be scanned down. You can be aggressed. You can be killed. Running missions. In fact, if you use drones incorrectly, a savvy player can trick your drones into aggressing them without your command.If you undock, it's PVP. If you use contracts or the market, it's also PVP. Ship spinning and closet walking are not, however, PVP. PvP would be actually engaging in competition with a player in some way shape or form. If your activity is done in complete isolation then you are not PvP'ing. This does not mean that just because you choose to isolate yourself that you cannot be interfered with, but it doesn't make what you are doing a PvP activity.
If doing that activity requires no interaction with anyone else it isn't pvp even if someone could choose to engage in non-consensual pvp with you while doing it. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
If a player is scanning for you, and you're in space, you are in a PVP situation. Your mere presence necessitates the competitive activity of scanning you down. Which you compete against, presumably, by hiding in a mission and being quite optimistic about your chances. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
419
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:46:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.
My secret Santee got a pimped out faction fit Daredevil and a T2 Vagabond for when he lost the first item in a ball of fire!
The previous year my Santee was BFM and I gave him interdictors! He turned out to be a creepy as hell and got kicked from the alliance.
Welp ok! |
stoicfaux
1093
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
FFS, the data is easy to read. ~50% of players play solo. ~50% of people subscribed because of the player driven economy. Ergo, ~50% of the player base are bots engaged in RMT.
Once you arrive at the conclusion, you then realize that the survey results need to be normalized to exclude the RMT bots. Meaning, the 25% of the player base interested in PvP translates into "50% of the non-botting population is interested in PvP."
/qed
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:FFS, the data is easy to read. ~50% of players play solo. ~50% of people subscribed because of the player driven economy. Ergo, ~50% of the player base are bots engaged in RMT.
Once you arrive at the conclusion, you then realize that the survey results need to be normalized to exclude the RMT bots. Meaning, the 25% of the player base interested in PvP translates into 50% of the non-botting population is interested in PvP.
/qed It also seems indicative that 75% of players don't realize they are PVP'ing when they PVE. |
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
191
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:51:00 -
[81] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:If a player is scanning for you, and you're in space, you are in a PVP situation. Your mere presence necessitates the competitive activity of scanning you down. Which you compete against, presumably, by hiding in a mission and being quite optimistic about your chances. You provide the out for your argument in the beginning of your statement. "If a player is scanning for you..." My presence in space constitutes nothing save that I am in space. It is up to someone else to make this a competitive activity if I have not done so myself. And yes, they can. This does not always mean they will or do. If and when they do so you are competing. Not sure what you are referring to as hiding in a mission though. Last I checked being in one offered no immunity from being scanned or added difficulty for the scanner. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
419
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
174
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.
My secret Santee got a pimped out faction fit Daredevil and a T2 Vagabond for when he lost the first item in a ball of fire! The previous year my Santee was BFM and I gave him interdictors! He turned out to be a creepy as hell and got kicked from the alliance. Welp ok!
I was refering to the one on that outside forum. I've recieved some really strange **** the past few years & treasured all of it. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
191
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. Probably, but it's somewhat moot as only a select few would/could play in that level of isolation if not none. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:58:00 -
[85] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. Sure I will.
Tyberius says they aren't necessarily scanning. I say they can at any time.
Therefore, he isn't really hiding from any PVP. Therefore, since he can be subjected to it at any time, he's PVP'ing while he PVE's. It's that simple. He's PVP'ing in the same way that a cloaky alt PVP's in null without firing a shot.
But he's still PVP'ing.
If he refuses to accept that then he is denying a fundamental tenet of "Open-world Sandbox PVP."
Mission running is also economic PVP, but that's another matter entirely.
EDIT: But Tyberius is dead-on right. It's moot. People basically can't or won't play in such an isolated fashion as to remove themselves from possibility of PVP. |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
174
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. Probably, but it's somewhat moot as only a select few would/could play in that level of isolation.
But but.... EVE Online is a great single player game! |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:
You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right?
Perhaps I still have brain damage from being in local with goons during the BoB wars and seeing the verbal onslaught that was local chat. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:00:00 -
[88] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right?
Perhaps I still have brain damage from being in local with goons during the BoB wars and seeing the verbal onslaught that was local chat. That's called, "disrupting local communications!" |
Disdaine
404
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
Only thing this survey shows is that CCP just isn't trying hard enough to nerf hisec and force players into low / null alliances.
At least that's how they'll interpret it. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
419
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:01:00 -
[90] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right?
Perhaps I still have brain damage from being in local with goons during the BoB wars and seeing the verbal onslaught that was local chat.
That was like a billion years ago man. Mostly now it's just ****. |
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:01:00 -
[91] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Only thing this survey shows is that CCP just isn't trying hard enough to nerf hisec and force players into low / null alliances.
At least that's how they'll interpret it. We can surely hope! |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Olleybear wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
You do realize that 90% of the "Incoherant hatred" is just us making fun of people who see "Goon" next to the posting name and freak the **** out right?
Perhaps I still have brain damage from being in local with goons during the BoB wars and seeing the verbal onslaught that was local chat. That was like a billion years ago man. Mostly now it's just ****.
You know what they say about first impressions. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
191
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:05:00 -
[93] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. Sure I will. He says they aren't necessarily scanning. I say they can at any time. Therefore, he isn't really hiding from any PVP. Therefore, since he can be subjected to it at any time, he's PVP'ing while he PVE's. It's that simple. He's PVP'ing in the same way that a cloaky alt PVP's in null without firing a shot. But he's still PVP'ing. If he refuses to accept that then he is denying a fundamental tenet of "Open-world Sandbox PVP." Mission running is also economic PVP, but that's another matter entirely. CAN isn't the same as ARE. This isn't about hiding. Not sure where you keep getting that from. Again, missions offer no protection from someone looking for you.
But they have to be looking for you.
A cloaky alt's presence in null is known and undesired, this leads people to change their behaviors. This has one player affecting another and is thus PvP.
A mission runner who isn't being pursued/scanned isn't PvP'ing because there is no one to PvP with as his resource isn't limited, nor does the quality of it diminish by having others do the same. If he isn't exchanging isk or loot with others to continue mission running and/or increase it's profitability he is not interacting with the population of the game UNTIL someone interacts with him. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
214
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:I thought they changed there name to SyFy... Never understood why.
that's easy, they changed nanes because they got tired of people beating them up for putting decidely un-scifi things on their channel... like pro-wrestling and horror. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:This argument is getting circular and I don't think either of you are going to get anywhere with it. Sure I will. He says they aren't necessarily scanning. I say they can at any time. Therefore, he isn't really hiding from any PVP. Therefore, since he can be subjected to it at any time, he's PVP'ing while he PVE's. It's that simple. He's PVP'ing in the same way that a cloaky alt PVP's in null without firing a shot. But he's still PVP'ing. If he refuses to accept that then he is denying a fundamental tenet of "Open-world Sandbox PVP." Mission running is also economic PVP, but that's another matter entirely. CAN isn't the same as ARE. This isn't about hiding. not sure where you keep getting that from. Again, missions offer no protection from someone looking for you. But they have to be looking for you. A cloaky alt's presence in null is known and undesired, this leads people to change their behaviors. This has one player affecting another and is thus PvP. A mission runner who isn't being pursued/scanned isn't PvP'ing because there is no one to PvP with as his resource isn't limited, nor does the quality of it diminish by having others do the same. If he isn't exchanging isk or loot with others to continue mission running and/or increase it's profitability he is not interacting with the population of the game UNTIL someone interacts with him.
By even potentially appearing on scan, according to Werner Heisenberg, the mission runner is interacting with the population of the game.
If it's a known fact that he can be PVP'd at any time. Schrodinger says he's PVP'ing and not PVP'ing simultaneously.
That's good enough for me. That is science. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:15:00 -
[96] - Quote
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to see it......
is there still a forest?
YK |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
420
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.
My secret Santee got a pimped out faction fit Daredevil and a T2 Vagabond for when he lost the first item in a ball of fire! The previous year my Santee was BFM and I gave him interdictors! He turned out to be a creepy as hell and got kicked from the alliance. Welp ok! I was refering to the one on that outside forum. I've recieved some really strange **** the past few years & treasured all of it.
This guy is a goon guys, but not one of "The goonies"
Beware: we are also among you. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
420
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:AFK Hauler wrote:I thought they changed there name to SyFy... Never understood why. that's easy, they changed nanes because they got tired of people beating them up for putting decidely un-scifi things on their channel... like pro-wrestling and horror.
Awaiting the History channel's rename to the "Hey Ya'll" channel. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to see it......
is there still a forest?
YK I loved this. |
Luis Graca
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
EVE is only complex because you can die to PvPers other wise it would be really easy
Now to me the main problem of that survey is "Majority of EVE players have played EVE Online for more than 2 years with average account age being 3 years." because these are the next to stop playing the game and not only it's going to lack new players has we also don't know how many are alt's of these same players
CCP SUCKS |
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:31:00 -
[101] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:EVE is only complex because you can die to PvPers other wise it would be really easy
Now to me the main problem of that survey is "Majority of EVE players have played EVE Online for more than 2 years with average account age being 3 years." because these are the next to stop playing the game and not only it's going to lack new players has we also don't know how many are alt's of these same players
It's called a Bell Curve.
Just because most players have a median average of 3 years in-game does not mean that there is no new growth.
WTF? |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
175
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
The rest of that success lies in the yearly Secret Santa.
My secret Santee got a pimped out faction fit Daredevil and a T2 Vagabond for when he lost the first item in a ball of fire! The previous year my Santee was BFM and I gave him interdictors! He turned out to be a creepy as hell and got kicked from the alliance. Welp ok! I was refering to the one on that outside forum. I've recieved some really strange **** the past few years & treasured all of it. This guy is a goon guys, but not one of "The goonies" Beware: we are also among you.
Why would you do such a thing? I was just posting here peacfully, minding my own business...
If you ask nicely I'll let you see the videos where I attempted to eat dog food. |
Luis Graca
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Luis Graca wrote:EVE is only complex because you can die to PvPers other wise it would be really easy
Now to me the main problem of that survey is "Majority of EVE players have played EVE Online for more than 2 years with average account age being 3 years." because these are the next to stop playing the game and not only it's going to lack new players has we also don't know how many are alt's of these same players
It's called a Bell Curve. Just because most players have a median average of 3 years in-game does not mean that there is no new growth. WTF?
Have you seeing the link?????? because if you did have saw it you will notice what i'm talking
Hint: It's the 3-¬ graph CCP SUCKS |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:42:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you do such a thing? I was just posting here peacfully, minding my own business...
If you ask nicely I'll let you see the videos where I attempted to eat dog food.
Wasn't that the thread where the guy was trying to bring his meal plan down to like cents on the dollar and was trying to find the optimum dogfood to eat?
Did you complete the mod challenge :V |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:43:00 -
[105] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Disregard That wrote:Luis Graca wrote:EVE is only complex because you can die to PvPers other wise it would be really easy
Now to me the main problem of that survey is "Majority of EVE players have played EVE Online for more than 2 years with average account age being 3 years." because these are the next to stop playing the game and not only it's going to lack new players has we also don't know how many are alt's of these same players
It's called a Bell Curve. Just because most players have a median average of 3 years in-game does not mean that there is no new growth. WTF? Have you seeing the link?????? because if you did have saw it you will notice what i'm talking Hint: It's the 3-¬ graph It really looks a lot like a Bell Curve to me. Possibly constrained irregularly around the median, but a Bell Curve just the same. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:43:00 -
[106] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Disregard That wrote:Luis Graca wrote:EVE is only complex because you can die to PvPers other wise it would be really easy
Now to me the main problem of that survey is "Majority of EVE players have played EVE Online for more than 2 years with average account age being 3 years." because these are the next to stop playing the game and not only it's going to lack new players has we also don't know how many are alt's of these same players
It's called a Bell Curve. Just because most players have a median average of 3 years in-game does not mean that there is no new growth. WTF? Have you seeing the link?????? because if you did have saw it you will notice what i'm talking Hint: It's the 3-¬ graph
Uh... that is a bell curve and it's pretty much the standard curve you should see for any healthy game's population once it hits the multi year mark. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1252
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:44:00 -
[107] - Quote
So... Eve is a single player game which needs an Internet connect? Does this mean CCP made a better D3 10 years ago? Suck on that Blizzard... |
Luis Graca
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:So... Eve is a single player game which needs an Internet connect? Does this mean CCP made a better D3 10 years ago? Suck on that Blizzard...
Maybe they should change the name to EVE Offline
CCP SUCKS |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
175
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you do such a thing? I was just posting here peacfully, minding my own business...
If you ask nicely I'll let you see the videos where I attempted to eat dog food.
Wasn't that the thread where the guy was trying to bring his meal plan down to like cents on the dollar and was trying to find the optimum dogfood to eat? Did you complete the mod challenge :V
Yes, that thread. OP completed his challenge but was beaten to it by several people. Watching all those videos was horrifying.
I did complete it, but I don't recommend Kangaroo & Rice for the curious. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
52
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:51:00 -
[110] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: Beware: we are also among you.
Obligitory cute cat picture. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
|
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you do such a thing? I was just posting here peacfully, minding my own business...
If you ask nicely I'll let you see the videos where I attempted to eat dog food.
Wasn't that the thread where the guy was trying to bring his meal plan down to like cents on the dollar and was trying to find the optimum dogfood to eat? Did you complete the mod challenge :V Yes, that thread. OP completed his challenge but was beaten to it by several people. Watching all those videos was horrifying. I did complete it, but I don't recommend Kangaroo & Rice for the curious.
How is your coat though? Shiny and full? |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
175
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you do such a thing? I was just posting here peacfully, minding my own business...
If you ask nicely I'll let you see the videos where I attempted to eat dog food.
Wasn't that the thread where the guy was trying to bring his meal plan down to like cents on the dollar and was trying to find the optimum dogfood to eat? Did you complete the mod challenge :V Yes, that thread. OP completed his challenge but was beaten to it by several people. Watching all those videos was horrifying. I did complete it, but I don't recommend Kangaroo & Rice for the curious. How is your coat though? Shiny and full?
Only if you're able to see past the clumps of **** & vomit. |
strikethree
Purple Passion Procurements
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:52:00 -
[113] - Quote
Did you even LOOK at the charts that you just linked to? Seriously. Most of the charts look like random noise but look at the all-time chart and the trend is incredibly clear: The number of players online at the same time has been steadily decreasing from a high point about two years ago. I am not seeing what you are describing. Not even close.
|
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:57:00 -
[114] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:So... Eve is a single player game which needs an Internet connect? Does this mean CCP made a better D3 10 years ago? Suck on that Blizzard... Maybe they should change the name to EVE Offline
Why do people think solo players don't want to be surrounded by real people....we do, we just don't really want to talk to you! Playing MMO's is kinda like going for a Sunday drive. See and bee seen, maybe wave while we're passing by. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
362
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:37:00 -
[115] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:I like how "exploration sci fi game" somehow equals entitled hisec bears
i didn't join eve for "pvp" either, that doesn't mean i support entitled carebear whining
I didn't join eve for any one thing, but that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about carebears whining
Tal
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:I like how "exploration sci fi game" somehow equals entitled hisec bears
i didn't join eve for "pvp" either, that doesn't mean i support entitled carebear whining I didn't join eve for any one thing, but that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about carebears whining Tal
I joined Eve for just one thing: PVP. But that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about not supporting entitled whiny carebears. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:I like how "exploration sci fi game" somehow equals entitled hisec bears
i didn't join eve for "pvp" either, that doesn't mean i support entitled carebear whining I didn't join eve for any one thing, but that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about carebears whining Tal I joined Eve for just one thing: PVP. But that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about not supporting entitled whiny carebears.
I joined eve... na we could go on for ever
Tal
|
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Disregard That wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:I like how "exploration sci fi game" somehow equals entitled hisec bears
i didn't join eve for "pvp" either, that doesn't mean i support entitled carebear whining I didn't join eve for any one thing, but that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about carebears whining Tal I joined Eve for just one thing: PVP. But that doesn't mean I support entitled whining about not supporting entitled whiny carebears. I joined eve... na we could go on for ever Tal I am glad we agree on that, then.
Besides, this gets messy in a few more rounds! |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:08:00 -
[119] - Quote
Syndrea Caedrion wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad... I'm putting this more on CCP...sure, the CSM is going to flap their gums, but CCP is the one that institutes changes. They are clearly out of touch with what their game is and was. And the fact that a rather small group is dictating the course of the game for the majority is a very bad sign indeed. My co-worker who used to play came out and said that he'd give the game two years at most before it crashed and burned if it stays on the path it is on. I find it hard to argue with him. I did find it amusing that PvP was in the last third of that list though, behind some pretty funny things!
Obviously CCP is already way ahead of you. They would not have put out a player survey if they believed the forums represented an honest cross section of the EVE player base. The survey was an attempt to contact that part of EVE player base that is the silent majority.
I am thinking that if CCP was interested in increasing the player base of EVE that they would use what they learned from the survey. That is not a sure thing however as the EVE server has limits. Which they have been experimenting with lately as well. The tea leaves are on the wall if you are into reading between the lines. We might see a shift in how CCP makes changes to the game in light of all of the above.
Forum noise is just that noise. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the greese. In the past that was mostly how CCP operated. Perhaps things are about to change. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:14:00 -
[120] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Syndrea Caedrion wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this is the problem with ccp direction after incarna instead of making the game better for the majority who play it they are focused on nerfing the things we like and making the game better for the minority null sec players... sad really...
this is why the CSM are bad... I'm putting this more on CCP...sure, the CSM is going to flap their gums, but CCP is the one that institutes changes. They are clearly out of touch with what their game is and was. And the fact that a rather small group is dictating the course of the game for the majority is a very bad sign indeed. My co-worker who used to play came out and said that he'd give the game two years at most before it crashed and burned if it stays on the path it is on. I find it hard to argue with him. I did find it amusing that PvP was in the last third of that list though, behind some pretty funny things! Obviously CCP is already way ahead of you. They would not have put out a player survey if they believed the forums represented an honest cross section of the EVE player base. The survey was an attempt to contact that part of EVE player base that is the silent majority. I am thinking that if CCP was interested in increasing the player base of EVE that they would use what they learned from the survey. That is not a sure thing however as the EVE server has limits. Which they have been experimenting with lately as well. The tea leaves are on the wall if you are into reading between the lines. We might see a shift in how CCP makes changes to the game in light of all of the above. Forum noise is just that noise. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the greese. In the past that was mostly how CCP operated. Perhaps things are about to change.
Yeah, I bet CCP is just dying to cater to the magical 70% of Eve's players who don't even know that every activity they perform is in fact PVP.
I just know we're on the verge of a whole crop of new, innovative, easy-mode changes. |
|
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:39:00 -
[121] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:stoicfaux wrote:FFS, the data is easy to read. ~50% of players play solo. ~50% of people subscribed because of the player driven economy. Ergo, ~50% of the player base are bots engaged in RMT.
Once you arrive at the conclusion, you then realize that the survey results need to be normalized to exclude the RMT bots. Meaning, the 25% of the player base interested in PvP translates into 50% of the non-botting population is interested in PvP.
/qed It also seems indicative that 75% of players don't realize they are PVP'ing when they PVE.
Yep I agree. This PvP is in most cases very onesided. The player that is scanning down the PvE player is actively PvP the PvE guy is not. He will get killed and it will be a very one sided battle. Not at all a challenge for the PvP person. Who most often has at least double or triple the SP of the PvE person. Most often the guy that is doing the PvE missions is working on becoming that skilled PvP player with the experience and skill points. But wil he get there? Does the PvP person consider this activity fun? They are basically picking on somebody that can not fight back. I.E. Less game experience and less skill points or almost a certain win for the more skilled player. If the PvE person is new and gets set back too hard they are likely to end their EVE career right about at this point. Some will fight through the challenge but more often they just leave the game. This is what CCP is working on fixing right now. The survey is proof enough that CCP is looking at this aspect of the game. CCP also has info none of us do, they have all the reasons why people quit the game. Where will it all lead? Time will tell. But I do think the next few years will be interesting in EVE. I expect the game to go through quite a eve-olution. I plan on sticking it out to see what happens.
I also expect a lot of resistance to changes. I suspect not to much of that resistence will matter though as CCP is using surveys to reach the silent majority. |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:48:00 -
[122] - Quote
There are 8000+ members in Goons so does this survey mean that 20 % of Goons play solo?
Only 2500 people filled in the survey anyway. All this proves is that lonely people are more likely to fill in surveys than people who have friends.
|
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:57:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:There are 8000+ members in Goons so does this survey mean that 20 % of Goons play solo? Only 2500 people filled in the survey anyway. All this proves is that lonely people are more likely to fill in surveys than people who have friends.
Perhaps, but CCP does also have some 50,000+/year exit reasons why the customer left the game. That is a lot of lost potential that has real market power. Far greater than any 8000+ active goon squad power base has. And they are using surveys now to reach out to these groups that do not post on the forums. So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
528
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:11:00 -
[124] - Quote
Interestingly, the survey also showed that Gëñ6% preferred PVE (category: other, please specify). Also, 44% liked that players can have an impact on the universe and 54% liked the player driven market.
If anything, the survey shows that PvP attracted more subscribers than PVE. |
Sturmwolke
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:14:00 -
[125] - Quote
I think a lot of folks has misconceptions on what "PVP" actually is for EVE Online - including the CCP devs that made those questionaires. Many think of PVP in EVE as a one-dimensional affair and directly compare these experiences with other games/MMO, where PVP literally means "player vs player killing".
Well, in EVE it is not.
PVP in EVE encompasses Machiavellian intrigue, market manipulation, player manipulation and wheatever else that you can think of. The list is non-exhaustive. That alone makes EVE unique and it attracts mature audiences from all walks of life. Personally, I may not prefer to PVP in the traditional sense (aka PKing), but I do PVP in other ways.
As for the 25% figure on PVP - these should really be classified as Ship Combat. CCP needs to understand their game better.
|
Yolanta Geezenstack
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:22:00 -
[126] - Quote
Even if this survey was true and more then half of the people playing EVE like to play solo - and like every survey this definetely has to be taken with more then a grain of doubt - that doesn't necessarily means CCP has to cater to this group. You could as well argue that obviously the game has enough to attract that kind of folks and you should now concentrate on the more group/pvp-oriented folks. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:31:00 -
[127] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:I think a lot of folks has misconceptions on what "PVP" actually is for EVE Online - including the CCP devs that made those questionaires. Many think of PVP in EVE as a one-dimensional affair and directly compare these experiences with other games/MMO, where PVP literally means "player vs player killing".
Well, in EVE it is not.
PVP in EVE encompasses Machiavellian intrigue, market manipulation, player manipulation and wheatever else that you can think of. The list is non-exhaustive. That alone makes EVE unique and it attracts mature audiences from all walks of life. Personally, I may not prefer to PVP in the traditional sense (aka PKing), but I do PVP in other ways.
As for the 25% figure on PVP - these should really be classified as Ship Combat. CCP needs to understand their game better.
From the way the survey is worded I think CCP is using more conventional terms in its thinking. The PvP is the ship to ship combat. The other stuff you reference market manipulation etc that you consider PvP is refered to by the survey as the 44% of players that liked to have an impact on the universe and the 54% that liked the player driven market.
Obviously it would be better for CCP to break these activities out as seperate rather than lump them all together as PvP. If it was all lumped together they would have difficulty making changes to the game based upon feedback that was simply PvP. What would that mean if it included everything. So while CCP's PvP focus does not work for you it obviously works for what they need it to do and that is what counts. |
Shian Yang
247
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:39:00 -
[128] - Quote
Greetings capsuleer,
Defintely not mining, walking in stations or anything industrial. Because they weren't listed on the choices in the survey, right? Besides, 2400 responses? Out of 400,000+ accounts? Give me a break.
Regards,
Shian Yang |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:47:00 -
[129] - Quote
I'm all for considering market a pvp activity, but I think we all know what the sruvey is talking about when it says "pvp", so no need to be nitpick there, it just would make the survey harder. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:51:00 -
[130] - Quote
Shian Yang wrote:Greetings capsuleer, Defintely not mining, walking in stations or anything industrial. Because they weren't listed on the choices in the survey, right? Besides, 2400 responses? Out of 400,000+ accounts? Give me a break. Regards, Shian Yang
Yep and CCP did not know that they would only get 2400 responses when they made the survey. What is important here is the fact that they did make a survey. It was an attempt to get feedback that they were not getting from the forum. That is what is important. They are working in directions that fit their needs more so than the forum user needs. That is the take away. If anything I would expect the forum users probably had a 90% turnout for the survey so they are more fully represented than the silent majority in the survey results already. |
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
649
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Yep I agree. This PvP is in most cases very onesided. The player that is scanning down the PvE player is actively PvP the PvE guy is not. He will get killed and it will be a very one sided battle. Not at all a challenge for the PvP person. Who most often has at least double or triple the SP of the PvE person. Most often the guy that is doing the PvE missions is working on becoming that skilled PvP player with the experience and skill points. But wil he get there?
Does the PvP person consider this activity fun? They are basically picking on somebody that can not fight back. I.E. Less game experience and less skill points or almost a certain win for the more skilled player. If the PvE person is new and gets set back too hard they are likely to end their EVE career right about at this point. Some will fight through the challenge but more often they just leave the game. No, he's not working on becoming that skilled PvP player, because if he was, he'd be out looking for fights instead of running missions. Stop propagating ridiculous bullshit; PvP isn't about skillpoints or money in the wallet, but about attitude. Inability to compete isn't an excuse to give superior players handicaps in an open-ended environment. I didn't learn PvP by running missions and watching my wallet blink; I learned it by devoting myself to the process. On my second day in EVE, I was flying a ****-fit tackler Atron in an empire war. That was like eight years ago.
Now, am I against people not wanting to shoot other players directly? Nah, not at all. However, I am against them trying to force the game to be changed so that they can perform their activities of choice with impunity.
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Perhaps, but CCP does also have some 50,000+/year exit reasons why the customer left the game. That is a lot of lost potential that has real market power. Far greater than any 8000+ active goon squad power base has. And they are using surveys now to reach out to these groups that do not post on the forums. So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die. I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:59:00 -
[132] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:There are 8000+ members in Goons so does this survey mean that 20 % of Goons play solo? Only 2500 people filled in the survey anyway. All this proves is that lonely people are more likely to fill in surveys than people who have friends. Perhaps, but CCP does also have some 50,000+/year exit reasons why the customer left the game. That is a lot of lost potential that has real market power. Far greater than any 8000+ active goon squad power base has. And they are using surveys now to reach out to these groups that do not post on the forums. So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die. I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
367
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:00:00 -
[133] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Goons excel in the areas you describe IMHO, but then you have a closed pool from which you recruit. You do an amazing job in retention and keeping your own people from being bored, that can't be argued. I'd just like abit of development for some of the rest of us as well, not necessarily non-goons, but PvE'ers. Some sort of lasting/rewarding content. That would do more to retain PvE centric players and potentially have them expand outward to low null for reasons of wanting to experience it for what it has to offer from that front.
I won't even argue with you. The PvE in this game is absolutely pathetic. I think isk generation should be at a decent rate that doesn't wreck the economy but that it should also be entertaining. This is at the moment not the case. No one can honestly look me in the eye and say that ratting is fun, missions are fun, incursions are fun, or that mining is fun. You may get off on the sense of progression due to being able to fly bigger and more expensive ships: But those are pretty meager rewards. I have no problem with the idea of themepark experience in this game, provided that the themepark can be gatecrashed by people interested enough to do it. I personally think Eve can have a healthy PvP and PvE community, but right now it's a wreck: And frankly goons are doing what they do to "Stay engaged", which is to engage someone else. I agree with most of this. But in Eve, PVE is PVP too.
You have to understand that for most ppl PVP = combat, don't shoot me if you dont like that or agree, but if you mention PVP, ppl see ships shooting each other. Ppl understand that markets etc are PVP as well, but the term is not used much for those activities.
Tal
|
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:03:00 -
[134] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing.
I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution... |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:04:00 -
[135] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:There are 8000+ members in Goons so does this survey mean that 20 % of Goons play solo? Only 2500 people filled in the survey anyway. All this proves is that lonely people are more likely to fill in surveys than people who have friends. Perhaps, but CCP does also have some 50,000+/year exit reasons why the customer left the game. That is a lot of lost potential that has real market power. Far greater than any 8000+ active goon squad power base has. And they are using surveys now to reach out to these groups that do not post on the forums. So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die. I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP?
Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more... |
Kiteo Hatto
The Fiction Factory Blue Nation
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:04:00 -
[136] - Quote
Haha pvp-ers will need to use their own advice and "adapt" or gtfo :D
This poll result is so very satisfying. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
368
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:07:00 -
[137] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:There are 8000+ members in Goons so does this survey mean that 20 % of Goons play solo? Only 2500 people filled in the survey anyway. All this proves is that lonely people are more likely to fill in surveys than people who have friends. Perhaps, but CCP does also have some 50,000+/year exit reasons why the customer left the game. That is a lot of lost potential that has real market power. Far greater than any 8000+ active goon squad power base has. And they are using surveys now to reach out to these groups that do not post on the forums. So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die. I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP? Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more...
OMG survey blobs what next, Can you imagine sitting around for days for a survey not to turn up. Will there be posts on the forums about how the survey was to chicken fight |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
650
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:08:00 -
[138] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing. I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution... You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:19:00 -
[139] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote: So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die.
I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP?[/quote]
Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more...[/quote] Dude, only 2400 people could be bothered to fill in that survey so it's clear that there was no concerted effort by anyone. There are 4 x more Goons playing Eve than people who took part in that survey. If, as you think, CCP take notice of these surveys you should be scared. How many Goons voted in the CSM and what happens to these surveys if they all decide to fill in the next one? Do you see where I'm coming from? |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:20:00 -
[140] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote: So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die.
I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP?
Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more...[/quote] Dude, only 2400 people could be bothered to fill in that survey so it's clear that there was no concerted effort by anyone. There are 4 x more Goons playing Eve than people who took part in that survey. If, as you think, CCP take notice of these surveys you should be scared. How many Goons voted in the CSM and what happens to these surveys if they all decide to fill in the next one? Do you see where I'm coming from? |
|
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:21:00 -
[141] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote: So you should be very afraid. It is not too likely that the forum mentality will continue to have its way with the game if they ever did. Expect EVE-olution adapt or die.
I think you should be afraid because all it takes is for Goonswarm to rally all their members to fill in the next survey that is sent out. What will you do when it shows 90% of people play with others and 95% are playing Eve for PvP? Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Like you guys didn't do that already to the best of your ability. Please scare me some more... Dude, only 2400 people could be bothered to fill in that survey so it's clear that there was no concerted effort by anyone. There are 4 x more Goons playing Eve than people who took part in that survey. If, as you think, CCP take notice of these surveys you should be scared. How many Goons voted in the CSM and what happens to these surveys if they all decide to fill in the next one? Do you see where I'm coming from?
|
Mme Pinkerton
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:23:00 -
[142] - Quote
strikethree wrote:Did you even LOOK at the charts that you just linked to? Seriously. Most of the charts look like random noise but look at the all-time chart and the trend is incredibly clear: The number of players online at the same time has been steadily decreasing from a high point about two years ago. I am not seeing what you are describing. Not even close. tbh I don't see what you are describing.
http://i.imgur.com/0BhzE.png
the high point was January 2011 and the decrease since has not been steady at all - even if you ignore the small peak in June 2011 you have a turnaround in October 2011 (the only stead part of the graph would be the rise from 2006 to 2008) An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
|
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:33:00 -
[143] - Quote
I like how so many people carebears all show up in this thread to show how statistics can be interpreted in different ways
*Hint: The categories are NOT mutually exclusive*
As an example:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Player style: Mostly play solo: 16% Usually play solo: 39% As much solo as in a group: 25% Usually in a group:15 % Mostly in a group: 5%
Now, think of this: WHAT can you do in game if you're playing solo like 45% of the players do? And very specially... HOW LONG before being given the finger by the UNEXISTANT solo endgame? A clue: 54% of players have been in game for less than three years.
1. It's pretty basic maths: 16%+39%=55% (Therefore, where did the 45% 'solo' players come from?) 2. 'Usually play solo', by its wording means the player does not play solo exclusively. Therefore your '45%' (see above) solo players should actually only be 16%. 3. So you're saying that CCP should cater to and tailor their game to 16% of their solo-playerbase? 4. Furthermore, turning this into a carebear vs PVP post does not work, since there are also small PVP corporations where a lot of members solo PVP a lot, and only form up small gangs as and when there are roams.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:It's friggin' great. It turns that PvP is of marginal interest to new players, nullsec is a little bunch of freaks who barely appeal to 1 in 6 players, almost half the subcribers barely play with other players, half the players weren't here three years ago... and yet the whole EVE development revolves around fuking hisec, ignoring soloers and massaging nullseccer's hurt feelings. Now please somebody come tell me that the survey was completed by hisec alts of l33t nullsec players.
5. How did you derive "PVP is of marginal interest to new players" from the ambiguous numbers shown? Again, please note that the reasons/influences in deciding to join EVE are NOT mutually exclusive. 6. In fact, how did you arrive at the conclusions presented in this part, based on the numbers you quoted? 7. The best bit is how NO ONE was influenced into joining the game by the EPIC MINING LASERS AND ULTIMATE PVE EXPERIENCE.
|
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:39:00 -
[144] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Wow lots of casual solo players But to be fair it was a survey you had to read so allot of the PVP crowd probably missed that. Tal
I find it funny that non-PVPers seem to think PVPers are stupid.
I have a job. I work with a lot of numbers and spreadsheets, which relate to how much RL money/hour I make.
Therefore, when I play a game, I don't want to work with numbers and spreadsheets, calculating my ISK/Hour.
I just want to shoot the breeze with some mates, maybe blow some stuff up.
Therefore, I R STOOPID? |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing. I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution... You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this.
I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online. And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums. The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well. |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Haha if the next expansion is for us carebears then pvp-ers will need to use their own advice and "adapt" or gtfo :D
This poll result is so very satisfying.
Incarna: Didn't adapt, GTFO'd. CCP thought, OOPS... Theoretical carebear expansion: Most likely we will find new ways of killing you, thus 'adapting'.
The funny thing is, PVPers DO heed their own advice, and are actually 'adapting or GTFO-ing'. Question is, can YOU 'adapt or GTFO'?
Most likely not. Screw adapting, screw 'leaving' like always threatened. Might as well just go on the forums and have a good cry. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:49:00 -
[147] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing. I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution... You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this. I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online. And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums. The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.
The reality is this. carebears are like the Ebola Virus, they enter a game and it's all over.
For the last 15 years, they ****** up every single game... they always start playing games they don't like, and always, ALWAYS, try and change them, until the game fits their "carebear" needs. At that point, the game is dead.
Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis... If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:50:00 -
[148] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=Herr Hammer Draken]I find it extremely hypocritical that you expect PvPers to "adapt or die" to changes that CCP would fancy to make to the game in order to excuse the carebears from having to do the exact same thing. I have no idea what direction the game will take. But I can feel change is in the air and so can you. I can feel your resistance to it already. EVE-olution... You will have to elaborate on that statement, because I haven't the slightest clue what you meant by it. At first glance, it seems like a bit of passive-aggressive ****-waving with a bit of strawman mixed in, but I'm willing to put first impressions aside and hear you out on this. I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online. And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums. The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well.
Change WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they? |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:55:00 -
[149] - Quote
[quote=lollerwaffleChange WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they?[/quote]
Well good for you this is the attitude. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 11:57:00 -
[150] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:[The reality is this. carebears are like the Ebola Virus, they enter a game and it's all over.
For the last 15 years, they ****** up every single game... they always start playing games they don't like, and always, ALWAYS, try and change them, until the game fits their "carebear" needs. At that point, the game is dead.
Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile! |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7772
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:00:00 -
[151] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile! So what you're suggesting is that we should dip all carebears in flesh-dissolving reactor gas?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
585
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:03:00 -
[152] - Quote
The Survery results show that there are people playing EVE Online.
Now all move along and play ingame.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
370
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:06:00 -
[153] - Quote
lollerwaffle wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Wow lots of casual solo players But to be fair it was a survey you had to read so allot of the PVP crowd probably missed that. Tal I find it funny that non-PVPers seem to think PVPers are stupid. I have a job. I work with a lot of numbers and spreadsheets, which relate to how much RL money/hour I make. Therefore, when I play a game, I don't want to work with numbers and spreadsheets, calculating my ISK/Hour. I just want to shoot the breeze with some mates, maybe blow some stuff up. Therefore, I R STOOPID?
I dont assume anyone is stupid (well some maybe ). I do find some lack a sense of humour though
Tal |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:07:00 -
[154] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:And not so good for you this is the wrong attitude. Resistance is futile! So what you're suggesting is that we should dip all carebears in flesh-dissolving reactor gas?
The department of sunshine and lollipops is twisted. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:09:00 -
[155] - Quote
Surveys are fun, I am saddened that I was not made aware of this one and therefore could not participate. I am also saddened when Gallop calls my home wanting to take a survey, it would be neat to have my opinion counted in those fancy polls thay put in the news....but dammit, PowerPuff Girls are on and I cannot be bothered. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
315
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:10:00 -
[156] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Haha if the next expansion is for us carebears then pvp-ers will need to use their own advice and "adapt" or gtfo :D
This poll result is so very satisfying.
If you think that the results from such a small sample size are satisfying or in any way conclusive then you're easily pleased and kidding yourself. 2400 taking the survey doesn't give a large enough sample size of the whole EVE playerbase to provide meaningful results, 2400 survey takers only gives a very loose overview of what's going on in EVE. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7772
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:20:00 -
[157] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:[If you think that the results from such a small sample size are satisfying or in any way conclusive then you're easily pleased and kidding yourself. 2400 taking the survey doesn't give a large enough sample size of the whole EVE playerbase to provide meaningful results, 2400 survey takers only gives a very loose overview of what's going on in EVE. 2400 is a perfectly adequate sample size for a population of 400,000. It gives you an error of -¦0.02 at 95% confidence, and it sits comfortably across the threshold where it's increasingly no longer really worth-while to start adding more participants.
With that said, I don't quite get why Kiteo Hatto thinks it's a satisfying result for carebears, since it shows that fewer than 6% joined the game for that reason, so it's not like they're going to make any effort to shore up such a paltry number. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
650
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
lollerwaffle wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:I was there when this happened to Asheron's Call. I was there when this happened to ddo online. And now I am here when this is happening to EVE online. And I heard all of these complaints before on those other forums. The resistance from the core gamer forum elite is nothing new. In fact it is comical and predictable. What you fear is that the game might take a direction you do not like and or have no control over. I suggest that you find a way to enjoy the process. The only thing that is certain is that change will happen. Being twisted is not only a player trait CCP devs can be twisted as well. Change WILL happen, and we welcome change. Who wants to play a game that stagnates for 9 years? Since I started playing, the gameplay, mechanics, ships, bonuses, weapons etc have been changed multiple times. We adapt. Can they? I was going to write something along those lines, but you beat me to it.
I find it a bit silly that this guy thinks that the people who have been adapting to changes by finding new and inventive ways to murder the **** out of each other over these past nine years will have a more difficult time adapting to future changes than the carebears. I do agree that the game is changing; however, not all change is objectively good change. The changes that were made to SWG and UO, for example, ended up destroying the products. EVE can change, and while we're ready to adapt to change, we can't adapt to death. If the changes go too far, and the game's core integrity is compromised, there is little hope for its future.
Personally, I will continue slagging carebears until CCP removes my ability to fire at them with my weapons. At that point, I will infiltrate their corporations and steal everything I can from them. When my ability to do so is taken away, I will go to their belts and mission areas, and bump their ships away from their targets. If that gets taken away too, then I will simply move on to a game with a more hardcore pvp component, such as Star Trek Online, or maybe Egosoft's X series. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:52:00 -
[159] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well.
They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:13:00 -
[160] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered.
Yep, UO was so awesome that it was dying. So they introduced the "carebear" Trammel, and soon after it was introduced, the game was getting record subscription numbers in excess of 250k back in 2003.
Of course in 2004 the "godawful carebear piece-o-crap WoW" came out and blew them all out of the water, but hey, that's nothing. Who wants to run a successful business earning hundreds of millions a year for 8 years running in this economy anyhow?
So yeah, keep thinking that PvPers and gankers are the future. Despite all available evidence showing otherwise. |
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:25:00 -
[161] - Quote
I will never understand some people's need to change things.
EVE is a cold, harsh, unforgiving multi-player conflict driven pvp sandbox (or at least that was the intent......). And yet all you see in GD are people trying to soften it to suit their needs. Why? (Rhetoricial question I know, it's pretty much human nature to try to change things to suit you rather than adapt yourself to suit it).
Why not play Star Trek Online which already does what the "soft" crowd likes? If I didn't like EVE's theme but liked space ships, I'd leave and do something els,e eve isn't the only space ship game in existance.
When I read things like Mittani's last editorial talking about the rot setting in because of an influx of carebearish types, I tended to want to put on my tinfoil hat. But I think he has a point, for some reason people (especially new people) seem to be hell bent on destoying that which makes EVE unique, encouraging CCP to turn it into some generic theme park in space BS. Hell, it's why some CCP folks had to make a "HTFU" video, because people really are that (insert colloqiual name for female body parts)-ified that too much harshness in a game is somehow bad.... |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
532
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:27:00 -
[162] - Quote
So you guys actually believe in a survey with Gëê 0.7% response rate? For some reason I wouldn't be surprised if the same people is arguing that the CSM is not representative of the playerbase. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7772
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:30:00 -
[163] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:So you guys actually believe in a survey with Gëê 0.7% response rate? Where did you get that number from?
A survey with 2,400 gives a reasonably small margin of error and the only reason not to believe it would be if there was some significant selection bias. So: was there?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:35:00 -
[164] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered.
Trammel killed UO sandbox. You too stupid to understand that. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:35:00 -
[165] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:So you guys actually believe in a survey with Gëê 0.7% response rate? For some reason I wouldn't be surprised if the same people is arguing that the CSM is not representative of the playerbase.
Do you honestly believe EVE has 400k unique players? As in, 400,000 human individuals?
What I believe is that there's approximately 400k subs. Out of those, 60% are PLEXed alt accounts, which is supported by both personal observations and polls I saw over the years. The most recent one I saw, I believe last September, showed that over 60% of people had 2 or more accounts, many 3 or more, quite a few as many as 6.
So, realistically, it's entirely possible the game has 150-200k players in it, or less. In which case the poll is 1.4-2%, which is fairly decent.
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:39:00 -
[166] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Yep, UO was so awesome that it was dying. So they introduced the "carebear" Trammel, and soon after it was introduced, the game was getting record subscription numbers in excess of 250k back in 2003. Of course in 2004 the "godawful carebear piece-o-crap WoW" came out and blew them all out of the water, but hey, that's nothing. Who wants to run a successful business earning hundreds of millions a year for 8 years running in this economy anyhow? So yeah, keep thinking that PvPers and gankers are the future. Despite all available evidence showing otherwise. EDIT: I would also love to see a similar survey regarding the new UI. Just to see how many people wanted it, how many prefer it to the old UI, etc., etc. I have a gut feeling the reaction to it is overwhelmingly negative,
Ultima Online was the first sandbox. Housing, PKs, full loot, all that good ****. The economy was extremely well balanced, pvp was frenetic, twitchy and had an extremely high skill cap. You could steal from people, poison them, etc.
Then Trammel came. It split the world in to two halves. One half was the way it was before, the other half was pvp-free. If you stayed in the old world, you got double the resources you did in the new one, but at the same usual risk. In the new world, there was quite literally zero risk, so the economy got completely ****** and inflated. Everyone went mob-killing (ratting) in the best gear (deadspace) instead of basic blacksmithed (t2) gear, no one cared about ore/minerals anymore, etc, etc.
It was the deathknell for UO. Subscriptions dropped off massively and it never recovered. The game is god awful now, but a carebears absolutely sweetest heaven, full of opportunities for massive gold-accumulation and nothing to spend it on. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:45:00 -
[167] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Trammel killed UO sandbox. You too stupid uo understand that.
I think you're not remembering things right.
UO released in late '97, it did OK. Great even, for its time. Near 100k subs, and almost zero competition. But as soon as the novelty wore off, and competition showed up (EverQuest in early '99, Acheron's Call in late '99, etc.) and ganking and griefing became rampant the game was going downhill.
To save it, in early 2000 Trammel was added in an expansion. Population went UP, not down. And by 2003 the game reached its peak subs - 250k subscribers. Which, for that time, was a very respectable number.
Now, concentrate and follow these simple facts: Before Trammel - 100k subs and going down. After Trammel - 250k subs and going UP.
And a year after UO reached its peak, WoW came out. Which IS Trammel, there was never a Felucca there. Result? 3 mil subs within months. Six in a year. Twelve in two years. Ten after 8 years and holding stable.
Soooo, your conclusion from that is Trammel killed UO? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:47:00 -
[168] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Trammel killed UO sandbox. You too stupid uo understand that. I think you're not remembering things right. UO released in late '97, it did OK. Great even, for its time. Near 100k subs, and almost zero competition. But as soon as the novelty wore off, and competition showed up (EverQuest in early '99, Acheron's Call in late '99, etc.) and ganking and griefing became rampant the game was going downhill. To save it, in early 2000 Trammel was added in an expansion. Population went UP, not down. And by 2003 the game reached its peak subs - 250k subscribers. Which, for that time, was a very respectable number. Now, concentrate and follow these simple facts: Before Trammel - 100k subs and going down. After Trammel - 250k subs and going UP. And a year after UO reached its peak, WoW came out. Which IS Trammel, there was never a Felucca there. Result? 3 mil subs within months. Six in a year. Twelve in two years. Ten after 8 years and holding stable. Soooo, your conclusion from that is Trammel killed UO?
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online? If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
789
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:50:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Yep, UO was so awesome that it was dying. So they introduced the "carebear" Trammel, and soon after it was introduced, the game was getting record subscription numbers in excess of 250k back in 2003. Of course in 2004 the "godawful carebear piece-o-crap WoW" came out and blew them all out of the water, but hey, that's nothing. Who wants to run a successful business earning hundreds of millions a year for 8 years running in this economy anyhow? So yeah, keep thinking that PvPers and gankers are the future. Despite all available evidence showing otherwise. EDIT: I would also love to see a similar survey regarding the new UI. Just to see how many people wanted it, how many prefer it to the old UI, etc., etc. I have a gut feeling the reaction to it is overwhelmingly negative, Ultima Online was the first sandbox. Housing, PKs, full loot, all that good ****. The economy was extremely well balanced, pvp was frenetic, twitchy and had an extremely high skill cap. You could steal from people, poison them, etc.
Then Trammel came. It split the world in to two halves. One half was the way it was before, the other half was pvp-free. If you stayed in the old world, you got double the resources you did in the new one, but at the same usual risk. In the new world, there was quite literally zero risk, so the economy got completely ****** and inflated. Everyone went mob-killing (ratting) in the best gear (deadspace) instead of basic blacksmithed (t2) gear, no one cared about ore/minerals anymore, etc, etc.
It was the deathknell for UO. Subscriptions dropped off massively and it never recovered. The game is god awful now, but a carebears absolutely sweetest heaven, full of opportunities for massive gold-accumulation and nothing to spend it on.
EVE is a game where your effort and dedication of mining for 50 hours and buy yourself a Hulk is rewarded by someone creating a trial acocunt, train it offline for three days and blow the **** out of you in 30 seconds.
That's the very reason why people plays hardcore games. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:51:00 -
[170] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Yep, UO was so awesome that it was dying. So they introduced the "carebear" Trammel, and soon after it was introduced, the game was getting record subscription numbers in excess of 250k back in 2003. Of course in 2004 the "godawful carebear piece-o-crap WoW" came out and blew them all out of the water, but hey, that's nothing. Who wants to run a successful business earning hundreds of millions a year for 8 years running in this economy anyhow? So yeah, keep thinking that PvPers and gankers are the future. Despite all available evidence showing otherwise. EDIT: I would also love to see a similar survey regarding the new UI. Just to see how many people wanted it, how many prefer it to the old UI, etc., etc. I have a gut feeling the reaction to it is overwhelmingly negative, Ultima Online was the first sandbox. Housing, PKs, full loot, all that good ****. The economy was extremely well balanced, pvp was frenetic, twitchy and had an extremely high skill cap. You could steal from people, poison them, etc.
Then Trammel came. It split the world in to two halves. One half was the way it was before, the other half was pvp-free. If you stayed in the old world, you got double the resources you did in the new one, but at the same usual risk. In the new world, there was quite literally zero risk, so the economy got completely ****** and inflated. Everyone went mob-killing (ratting) in the best gear (deadspace) instead of basic blacksmithed (t2) gear, no one cared about ore/minerals anymore, etc, etc.
It was the deathknell for UO. Subscriptions dropped off massively and it never recovered. The game is god awful now, but a carebears absolutely sweetest heaven, full of opportunities for massive gold-accumulation and nothing to spend it on. EVE is a game where your effort and dedication of mining for 50 hours and buy yourself a Hulk is rewarded by someone creating a trial acocunt, train it offline for three days and blow the **** out of you in 30 seconds. That's the very reason why people plays hardcore games.
Damage Control I If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
|
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:53:00 -
[171] - Quote
Christopher Dulson wrote:Its interesting that most people tend to play mainly alone.
Im suppose that this is highsec mission runners.
Many folks don't have time to play in a corp without annoying the other corpies with their unpredictable playtimes, and short play sessions. Sometimes I log on for 15 minutes. Ideally, folks in a corp want to work together on things. I won't burden other people with my casualness when they clearly want to group up and get stuff done, which is why they joined a corp in the first place. That's why I play alone, and I bet there's lots of people in this situation. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymoe because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
See, I could totally agree with you on the "we'll never know, because Trammel killed it" argument, if they released Trammel very soon after UO's release. The thing is, what PROMPTED the creation of Trammel was massive subscription losses in the 2 years preceding the Trammel expansion due to massive griefing.
It wasn't a "sandbox armageddon", it was a "ganking/griefing" armageddon. The only things Trammel changed was non-consensual PvP. Every other sandbox element present in original UO was still present in Trammel. Just some griefing elements were curtailed a bit.
As it was, the game was given 2 years. It wasn't going anywhere. With competition biting at its heels, they had to do something or die. They did Trammel. And it worked! The game's population more than doubled compared to the previous peak subscription numbers.
So, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. They killed griefing. People came flooding in. Other games (like EverQuest) came out with little griefing to begin with, and did even better than UO. And then WoW came out with no griefing at all (well, some, if you consider corpse-camping and NPC/flightmaster/auctioneer killing griefing), and blew them all away. I'm not seeing any indication that people actually LIKE griefing or are attracted to it in any way, statistically speaking.
And dude, don't get me wrong. I LOVE sandbox. I just don't equate sandbox to griefing, non-consensual PvP and general douchebaggery. They're not in any way linked or required for sandbox to exist. Every sandbox is limited in some way, and limits on just how much freedom a player has in certain areas is always controlled - even in EVE (see Concord). Otherwise it's just anarchy. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1821
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:59:00 -
[173] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more.
Agreed. They should push WiS to make sure they have 100k active subs.
[A certain improvement over the 400k they have now] Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
371
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:08:00 -
[174] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Remember the epic mmo Ultima Online? They ruin it, all that was left was a hollow game, with fever and bleeding diathesis...
Remember it quite well. They had to split the world into Trammel and Felucca because the "hardcore pvpers" were running around in groups ganking every new player until subs suffered. Trammel killed UO sandbox. You too stupid uo understand that. I think you're not remembering things right. UO released in late '97, it did OK. Great even, for its time. Near 100k subs, and almost zero competition. But as soon as the novelty wore off, and competition showed up (EverQuest in early '99, Acheron's Call in late '99, etc.) and ganking and griefing became rampant the game was going downhill. To save it, in early 2000 Trammel was added in an expansion. Population went UP, not down. And by 2003 the game reached its peak subs - 250k subscribers. Which, for that time, was a very respectable number. Now, concentrate and follow these simple facts: Before Trammel - 100k subs and going down. After Trammel - 250k subs and going UP. And a year after UO reached its peak, WoW came out. Which IS Trammel, there was never a Felucca there. Result? 3 mil subs within months. Six in a year. Twelve in two years. Ten after 8 years and holding stable. Soooo, your conclusion from that is Trammel killed UO? Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game. Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve.
Tal
|
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:13:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: It wasn't a "sandbox armageddon", it was a "ganking/griefing" armageddon. The only things Trammel changed was non-consensual PvP. Every other sandbox element present in original UO was still present in Trammel. Just some griefing elements were curtailed a bit.
As it was, the game was given 2 years. It wasn't going anywhere. With competition biting at its heels, they had to do something or die. They did Trammel. And it worked! The game's population more than doubled compared to the previous peak subscription numbers.
And some of the players who liked the 'sandbox armageddon' left and made a game called Eve. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:24:00 -
[176] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. Agreed. They should push WiS to make sure they have 100k active subs. [A certain improvement over the 400k they have now]
The sad thing is, and this is just one total *******'s opinion (mine) here, is that WiS could do for EVE more than any other change, pretty much ever. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, it has to be properly done.
Imagine logging into EVE, and instead of staring at your ship, ending up in a huge vibrant gorgeous space station full of people, surrounded by muted conversations, the announcements, the holo-advertisements floating above. Totally different feel, right? Imagine actually walking up to an NPC and having a conversation with him, rather than just clicking his portrait and hitting accept. Totally different experience. And this wouldn't mean you HAVE to do it this way, you would still be able to do it from your pod remotely, if you didn't want to, but the option would be there.
Now, add meaningful gameplay. Like flying into a wormhole, finding a space hulk, and going into it wearing a suit of armor, armed with a heavy bolter a'la Warhammer 40k? And finding artefacts (or rogue drone AI) inside. Again, totally different to just clicking the item in space and clicking a ship's module and waiting for it to cycle through and say "success" or "nothing was salvaged".
IF, and like the BIG BUT this is a BIG IF, they were able to actually pull this off, without letting EVE itself atrophy and die in the 2-3 decades it will take CCP with their glacial pace to actually do this, they would have such a unique game that I honestly can't see it dying any time soon, it would only grow provided it is maintained properly.
But quite frankly I just don't see it happening. It took years to get Incarna to a state where it's just a room with one person in it. Something other MMOs wouldn't even consider a gameplay demo, never mind a full fledged expansion. But I honestly believe such a change could easily double the amount of players EVE has, maybe even triple or quadruple it. Simple fact is, a lot of people like Sci-Fi. But not a lot of people find flying a ship in a circle (without manual control, mind!) all that entertaining. Avatar-based gameplay however is tried, tested and true successful mechanic. And EVE doesn't have it. Except for the closet. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
533
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:55:00 -
[177] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lexmana wrote:So you guys actually believe in a survey with Gëê 0.7% response rate? Where did you get that number from? A survey with 2,400 gives a reasonably small margin of error and the only reason not to believe it would be if there was some significant selection bias. So: was there?
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:So, realistically, it's entirely possible the game has 150-200k players in it, or less. In which case the poll is 1.4-2%, which is fairly decent.
Big numbers are not always accurate as we learned from the Truman vs Dewey campaign in 1948. When Gëê98% decide to not answer a survey, the burden of proof lies with those who claim it to be representative (i.e. no sampling bias). I know that you would have a hard time claiming that in a scientific journal with less than 60-70% response rate.
So, how can you claim it to be representative? |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
588
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:56:00 -
[178] - Quote
Sounds a lot like the CSM Election process, does it not ? Only a small number of voters when compared to the actual number of active Eve players.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Xavier Holtzman
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:58:00 -
[179] - Quote
I would like to know two things:
1) How many active subscriptions were there at the time the survey was taken?
2) How many people (who had active subscriptions) took the survey? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1821
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:01:00 -
[180] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. Agreed. They should push WiS to make sure they have 100k active subs. [A certain improvement over the 400k they have now] The sad thing is, and this is just one total *******'s opinion (mine) here, is that WiS could do for EVE more than any other change, pretty much ever. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, it has to be properly done. Imagine logging into EVE, and instead of staring at your ship, ending up in a huge vibrant gorgeous space station full of people, surrounded by muted conversations, the announcements, the holo-advertisements floating above. Totally different feel, right? Imagine actually walking up to an NPC and having a conversation with him, rather than just clicking his portrait and hitting accept. Totally different experience. And this wouldn't mean you HAVE to do it this way, you would still be able to do it from your pod remotely, if you didn't want to, but the option would be there. Now, add meaningful gameplay. Like flying into a wormhole, finding a space hulk, and going into it wearing a suit of armor, armed with a heavy bolter a'la Warhammer 40k? And finding artefacts (or rogue drone AI) inside. Again, totally different to just clicking the item in space and clicking a ship's module and waiting for it to cycle through and say "success" or "nothing was salvaged". IF, and like the BIG BUT this is a BIG IF, they were able to actually pull this off, without letting EVE itself atrophy and die in the 2-3 decades it will take CCP with their glacial pace to actually do this, they would have such a unique game that I honestly can't see it dying any time soon, it would only grow provided it is maintained properly. But quite frankly I just don't see it happening. It took years to get Incarna to a state where it's just a room with one person in it. Something other MMOs wouldn't even consider a gameplay demo, never mind a full fledged expansion. But I honestly believe such a change could easily double the amount of players EVE has, maybe even triple or quadruple it. Simple fact is, a lot of people like Sci-Fi. But not a lot of people find flying a ship in a circle (without manual control, mind!) all that entertaining. Avatar-based gameplay however is tried, tested and true successful mechanic. And EVE doesn't have it. Except for the closet.
I play EvE for flying spaceships, and currently talk to NPC agents once in a never. Being that I play an MMO, I interact primarily with the other players. I don't need to have a conversation with a scripted NPC because I can have one with another person. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:02:00 -
[181] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal
Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:04:00 -
[182] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: It wasn't a "sandbox armageddon", it was a "ganking/griefing" armageddon. The only things Trammel changed was non-consensual PvP. Every other sandbox element present in original UO was still present in Trammel. Just some griefing elements were curtailed a bit.
As it was, the game was given 2 years. It wasn't going anywhere. With competition biting at its heels, they had to do something or die. They did Trammel. And it worked! The game's population more than doubled compared to the previous peak subscription numbers.
And some of the players who liked the 'sandbox armageddon' left and made a game called Eve.
They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way ---> If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:05:00 -
[183] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space.
Who says? You? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:05:00 -
[184] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space.
Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace.
Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO
RL is the biggest MMO I know (we are all in the matrix, man), and its made up of all types, even solo players, I like to think of Eve as the same.
Tal |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:06:00 -
[185] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace. Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO Tal
You are wrong, their is no room for theme park play style in a sandbox game. It's that simple. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:07:00 -
[186] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You?
Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space.
Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you.
Tal
|
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:11:00 -
[188] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then....
|
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
127
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:12:00 -
[189] - Quote
The PVP part is hard to pin down. Sure, only 25% of people said that PVP is the reason they play EVE, but that is only the people who actively engage in it or seek it out.
That said, PVP impacts far more than 25% of the players.
Yes, some who want nothing to do with it will come on the forums and rage about suiside ganking, gate camps and big 0.0 alliances.
Yet others...often quietly... gain more enjoyment from the game because of PVP even though they do not actively seek it themselves. The danger of PVP, the need to plan ahead, keep an eye on your surroundings and be careful is part of the fun of being an industrialist in a PVP game.
The act of avoiding PVP is a form of PVP in itself. In this case, PVP is more like "Predator vs Prey". For those who enjoy the hunt (even when they are the ones being hunted) this enhances their enjoyment of the game. Likewise, if something was 100% safe, it would very quickly become boring, even though you never suffered any losses while doing it.
For those of you who doubt me, let me suggest this: The next time you need to do a rep grind for an NPC corp, do a few missions in high sec...then find an agent in low sec and do a few more there. I guarantee you'll find the low sec missions more interesting than the high sec ones.... and as a bonus they're more rewarding (In terms of isk/LP)
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:13:00 -
[190] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace. Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO Tal You are wrong, their is no room for theme park play style in a sandbox game. It's that simple.
Oh I am sorry, I didn't see when you had taken over CCP and was now dictating the direction of the game. |
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1823
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:14:00 -
[191] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then....
So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park.
The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:15:00 -
[192] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal
You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space.
I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebear do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense... If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:16:00 -
[193] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then.... So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park. The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
The carebear agenda... If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1825
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:22:00 -
[194] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then.... So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park. The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone. The carebear agenda...
Indeed Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:23:00 -
[195] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa.
Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:23:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space. I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebears do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense...
Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you)
Tal
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1826
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:26:00 -
[197] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules.
And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:28:00 -
[198] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1191
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
One important thing to note about using the data collected by these kind of surveys is that it is often not a very good spread of a population, and is also very often open to misinterpretation due to the specific phrasing and formatting used in the questions and available answers.
For example this is a survey that was available as an optional link in a newsletter email. You are already narrowing your target demographic to solely those that read newsletters, and those that click and complete on-line surveys for no reward. The personality types of the particular people likely to have performed those actions will have weighted the responses, as they are also very likely predisposed to certain styles of play in Eve.
Is there a correlation of any kind between reading newsletters, actually completing on-line surveys and the amount of time playing MMOs? Or there may be a link between between that behaviour and your likelihood to play an MMO solo, there simply isn't enough data to make any conclusion either way. If you had access to CCP's private records you may be able to make a better analysis, by seeing if there is a deviation between something like the ages of those completing the survey and the player base at large.
Vincent Athena wrote:Why do people start playing eve? The winners were a complex Sci Fi game with space exploration, with around 70%+ picking those.
And down at 25%? PvP.
It would appear that the survey takers were not drawn to eve by "the hard core PvP" but because its a Sci Fi game. You've also just really badly misinterpreted that. The two points are not mutually exclusive, a user could have answered that they began playing Eve because it was a Sci Fi game but not have picked it up if it hadn't involved PvP.
For example I would have answered that I began playing due to the complexity of the game, yet I would not have played it were it not available for Mac. This means, despite my answer, the availability of the game on the Mac platform was just as pivotal. What you are comparing is open ended game concepts that span every faucet of the game with specific elements, that are by their nature less likely to be selected as that specificity narrows the demographic which will answer it to a demographic which will still be able to consider the first option*.
Again you really should not take data like this at face value, it is useful for making an interesting slide show with pie charts but realistically that is all that this kind of a survey will provide you with.
*Thought I'd clear that premise up a little, there is a name for it but I've forgotten it and I can't find it on google:
OPTION 1: Spans every aspect of the game, such as genre.
OPTION 2: Is of interest to 50% of the player base.
If players were asked which of these was more important to them you would have 75% of them who might answer with option one, whereas you would be left with at best only 25% who can answer with option two.
Anyway, sorry for the statistics lecture. I had to do a little bit of analysing large sets of data in one of my previous jobs and I've found it vaguely interesting ever since.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:30:00 -
[200] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space.
You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human.
First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it. brb |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:31:00 -
[201] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:
Who says? You?
Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space. I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebears do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense... Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you) Tal
Good, i don't want to read more carebear diarrhea anyway.
And BTW, if EvE Online is still an amazing Sandbox MMO, i will be here 9 years from now, since this type of game is special and rare. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1826
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:32:00 -
[202] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
See anyone seriously calling for that recently?
'Cause I can point to numerous threads for banning violence in HS. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7773
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:32:00 -
[203] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Big numbers are not always accurate as we learned from the Truman vs Dewey campaign in 1948. When Gëê98% decide to not answer a survey, the burden of proof lies with those who claim it to be representative (i.e. no sampling bias). I know that you would have a hard time claiming that in a scientific journal with less than 60-70% response rate. So, how can you claim it to be representative? Because there is nothing to suggest that there is a huge drop-out in response rates or that the sample is biased.
That's why I asked you to provide a source for that response rate number, and why I'd still like to see one. As far as I can tell, all we know is that 2,400 people answered, which is a statistically significant sample. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:34:00 -
[204] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec.
Plus the bounderies have changed in 9 years, concorde for example.
All I've seen is a request for balance not safety in the WoW sense of the word.
I for one don't want Wow in space.
Tal
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:35:00 -
[205] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human. First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it.
I deal with it, that's why i kill and steal your kind. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:36:00 -
[206] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you)
Tal
Forget about him...He is just a kid trying to look cool. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:37:00 -
[207] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human. First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it. I deal with it, that's why i kill and steal your kind.
It's rather the other way around, you just haven't figured out and never will because you're incapable of
brb |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:39:00 -
[208] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: See anyone seriously calling for that recently?
'Cause I can point to numerous threads for banning violence in HS.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118674&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115419&find=unread
Couldn't be bothered. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7776
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:41:00 -
[209] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec. Really? Stick around and start keeping an eye out for it. You'll come across it soon enough. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
533
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:42:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lexmana wrote:Big numbers are not always accurate as we learned from the Truman vs Dewey campaign in 1948. When Gëê98% decide to not answer a survey, the burden of proof lies with those who claim it to be representative (i.e. no sampling bias). I know that you would have a hard time claiming that in a scientific journal with less than 60-70% response rate. So, how can you claim it to be representative? Because there is nothing to suggest that there is a huge drop-out in response rates or that the sample is biased. That's why I asked you to provide a source for that response rate number, and why I'd still like to see one. As far as I can tell, all we know is that 2,400 people answered, which is a statistically significant sample. I just assumed everybody got the survey. But that might not be accurate. I know I got it (can't remember if it was log in screen or e mail) but never answered. Why would they not send it to all? Witout response rate data is useless though large numbers may fool some. |
|
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
120
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:44:00 -
[211] - Quote
Guys try understand fans of SF play sf because they love sf themes, people who play becuse pvp reason they play other games, like, online FPS etc, for me no wonder that only 25% of people play eve becuse pvp reason...
I have question for you, you like movies like star trek only because of lazros...? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:49:00 -
[212] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec. Really? Stick around and start keeping an eye out for it. You'll come across it soon enough.
Not often, less than ppl asking for hi sec or concorde to be removed completely.
I think all that most ppl want is balance (and I mean for all sides). Nothing wrong with that is there ?
Tal |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7776
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:53:00 -
[213] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Witout response rate data is useless though large numbers may fool some. Well, that's kind of my point.
I didn't get it. By the sounds of it, it was part of a newsletter, and my response to those kinds of things varies between a) unsubscribing, and b) unsubscribing and threatening to report the company to spam block lists if they keep sending me things I've unsubscribed to. Depending how it was presented in the newsletter, it might not be a case of GÇ£didn't want/bother to respondGÇ¥ but of GÇ£didn't actually get the linkGÇ¥.
Arguably, there is a few layers of self-selection going on here (those who select to do online surveys, among those who select to meticulously read the newsletter, among those who select to receive the newsletter), but then you just run up against the wall of GÇ£how does this selection process bias the sample?GÇ¥.
For me, the 2,400 responses means that a sufficient number of people have replied to make it a likely scenario. On its own, it generates about a 2% margin of error for 95% confidence. It doesn't particularly need to be all that rigorous and the actual questions are far more problematic than the sampling anyway.
GǪand I also like the fact that PvE is less important for EVE than Mac support and that potentially as few as 4% of the players started playing EVE for that reason. But those are just my biases. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1829
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:57:00 -
[214] - Quote
... to read the threads you linked.
evereplicant wrote: Either make REAL consequences and make it harder for people to gank in highsec/low sec or remove it altogether
Which do you think that OP wants?
Amun Khonsu wrote: It is clear that CCP wants grossly inflated and ongoing rising prices on the market by permitting suicide gankers to come to high security to suicide gank players who make us ships at good prices.
This OP also seems to be using a rhetorical device.
Also, you said you had threads about Smartbombing the undocks of newbie systems. You did not produce. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1829
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:02:00 -
[215] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise. I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec. Plus the bounderies have changed in 9 years, concorde for example. All I've seen is a request for balance not safety in the WoW sense of the word. I for one don't want Wow in space. Tal
I've seen requests to ban players from HS if they gank, to Jail accounts who gank, to CONCORD pods of players who gank, to forcing the ganker to reimburse gank victims, to preventing gankers from bording ships, to CONCORD Orcas involved in ganks to making Hulks as well buffered as freighters, and so many more. Including threads asking for an outright ban on ganking (though those seem out of vogue atm).
I began to see a trend (Hint: I started seeing the trend when the threads were about outright bans). Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1829
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:04:00 -
[216] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand I also like the fact that PvE is less important for EVE than Mac support and that potentially as few as 4% of the players started playing EVE for that reason. But those are just my biases.
CCP started supporting Mac's again? Last I checked the giant Mac Client Freeze thread is still going strong from November (when I gave up and started Dual Booting). Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1710
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:07:00 -
[217] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:I thought they changed there name to SyFy... Never understood why. Because half of their programming doesn't qualify as Science Fiction? With all their "reality" shows and paranormal crap and variations on antique road show (Hollywood Treasure, etc) they hardly had space for any real sci fi.
So they changed their name, probably to avoid being sued for false advertising. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7779
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:14:00 -
[218] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:CCP started supporting Mac's again? Last I checked the giant Mac Client Freeze thread is still going strong from November (when I gave up and started Dual Booting). Maybe. I don't know GÇö I've historically had very little problems when running under OSX compared to the complaints levelled against the client. In fact, my bootcamped install tends to cause much more problems (but I think that might be due to the GFX card slowly conking out). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Vladimir Plinnikov
Plinnikov Family Holdings
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:18:00 -
[219] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Sci Fi? I'm thinking something to do with the SciFi sim they promised it was going to become?
Thank you for that. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
533
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:21:00 -
[220] - Quote
I agree that if data comes from a random selection of ~4k EVE players the numbers are pretty accurate an can probably be generalised to the whole population. But if they are the result from a population survey with ~2% response rate even a small bias in selection will have a huge impact on estimates and interpreting them as representative is very risky. There is a world of difference betwee those two scenarios.
Before we know more about the design of this survey the results are not worth the pixels on my iPhone.
|
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:24:00 -
[221] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:I thought they changed there name to SyFy... Never understood why. Branding, the ability to trademark. "SciFi" is a generic term. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1829
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:25:00 -
[222] - Quote
Tippia wrote:RubyPorto wrote:CCP started supporting Mac's again? Last I checked the giant Mac Client Freeze thread is still going strong from November (when I gave up and started Dual Booting). Maybe. I don't know GÇö I've historically had very little problems when running under OSX compared to the complaints levelled against the client. In fact, my bootcamped install tends to cause much more problems (but I think that might be due to the GFX card slowly conking out).
I'm starting to see evidence of my Graphics giving out... and my fans... and my Disk Drive (does total lack of function count as evidence?)... and that's what I get for playing on a 5 year old laptop.
The biggest thing I noticed switching to windows was the dramatic boost in fps. From 8-12 on OSX to 30-40 on Windows. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:31:00 -
[223] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Since the results of this survey show only 25 percent of players are interested in pvp, CCP should immediately make loading pvp modules require 20 clicks and a secret password while all exploration (67%) frigates get free cookies and a performance increase.
After all, surveys do not lie.
Yonis Kador
Confiriming surveys and polls are always 100% accurate. http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/Presidents/presimages/truman_deweywins.jpg |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
140
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:04:00 -
[224] - Quote
Again, the poll does not show that 25 percent of players "are interested" in pvp - it only asks whether pvp was a factor in their signing up for the game. The post you've referenced, Lucy, was meant to be sarcasm, hence the 20 shift-clicks and the secret password bit. All we can safely infer, assuming the sample size is statistically valid, which I have no reason to doubt, is that of 18 options to choose from as answers to the question "Why did you start playing EVE?" 11 options were rated higher than pvp.
And Ruby, haha, I did suggest a ganker restitution system but that's not meant to support turning EVE into a carebear themepark. In RL and in this game, I'm a pretty fair-minded person. I seek a middle path and look for compromises in polarizing situations. It's an useful asset.
I just do not accept that this game is meant to be a construct that, by design, divides risk-takers, who eventually migrate to low and null, from risk-averse players, which graze in high - offering the latter as victims to enhance risk-taker gameplay. The idea that the reverse is also true and that ganking enhances risk-averse gameplay is highly speculative.
In a system with both high security and low security, increasing levels of danger should realistically present themselves as one radiates outward from high toward low. But increasing penalties for crime should be equally prevalent as one radiates from low to high. Risk vs. reward. 0.5s should be more risky than 1.0 systems. Just as ganking in 1.0 systems should carry a stiffer penalty than ganking in 0.5s. Yes, I know that currenly the penalties are scaled with this intent, but the argument is that the current penalties are an ineffective deterrent to high-sec crime altogether. High-sec crime shouldn't be impossible. Never. I wouldn't take that position. Sandddboxx!
But let's be frank also, the existing deterrents are obviously a joke with month-long events like Hulkageddon illuminating that hypocrisy. Obviously sec status reductions and the knowledge that Concord is around gives gankers zero pause whatsoever before launching a high-sec gank.
Players have created a festival with prizes for the most violations! It's hilarious.
I wasn't attempting to take away anyone's ability to gank with the restitution suggestion. I think risk is a huge part of this game and EVE would suffer without it. Restitution is a widely-accepted RL practice equated with justice, so it seemed logical. And, as restitution also isn't a deterrent to crime, I fail to even see how it got thrown in with the suggestions to turn EVE into a carebear themepark. lol
It's just an idea I generated to address the perpetual dillema of risk-averse player complaints over 300m isk hulks being destroyed by 10m isk risk-taker dessies - and simultaneously - also ending any potential insurance isk sinks, as the isk being moved would now be from player to player and already in-game.
It'll probably never happen anyway.
Yonis Kador |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:13:00 -
[225] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:If they added more to avatar game play they'd get more people playing. This walking in closest is not helping much. Add more WiS to the game and they'd be pushing 100k plus subs easily - if not more. Do you mean subs or simultaneous accounts online?
The more subs you then the more people will be onlie at once. At least you would expect that to happen.
I do think that with a real WiS feature that we would absolutely have more people online at given time. I personally log out instead of sitting in a hanger staring at my ship or looking at my avatar. If I had a WiS I'd be logged in doing things on stations. No reason to stay logged in very log when I've got a week or so of waiting for skills to train and jobs to finish.
I also agree Ginseng. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
141
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:43:00 -
[226] - Quote
I wouldn't mind WiS to go casino gambling for isk. Cha-ching! Where's my Quafe!
Or having the ability to "meet up" with friends in a bar to have drinks with in-game penalties to attributes relative to the number of drinks consumed.
Or to interact directly with merchants and having the ability to haggle them in person as opposed to direct purchasing from the market screen.
I'd even fly 30 jumps to catch a WiS play in Dodixie or a WiS punk rock concert in Rens or to maybe see a CCP speaker avatar giving a dissertation on economics in Jita.
Wars could be ended when two CEO's sit at a physical table and actually sign a document and a screenshot of the event could be sent to all involved parties instead of the current tweet system.
Corps could hold open recruiting in an office at such and such station by appointment. No more recruitment channel trolling - walk-ins only. That would be different.
The only way WiS will be successful is if the content is rich and varied, but really the possibilities are endless.
YK |
Shian Yang
248
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 00:43:00 -
[227] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Yep and CCP did not know that they would only get 2400 responses when they made the survey. What is important here is the fact that they did make a survey. It was an attempt to get feedback that they were not getting from the forum. That is what is important. They are working in directions that fit their needs more so than the forum user needs. That is the take away. If anything I would expect the forum users probably had a 90% turnout for the survey so they are more fully represented than the silent majority in the survey results already.
Greetings capsuleer,
CCP has been doing surveys approximately every month for the year and a bit I've held my pilots' license. This is not new.
Regards,
Shian Yang |
Disdaine
406
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 01:53:00 -
[228] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: Also, you said you had threads about Smartbombing the undocks of newbie systems. You did not produce.
Never said that. Though don't let that get in your way.
Merely implied that whilst there are people who would like all risk removed from hisec there are also people who would swing the other way.
Why did CCP have to outlaw can baiting in rookie systems? Because there are people who would do it all day long if they could. The same kind of people who forced the UO split forced CCP to bring Concord in.
Quote:and that's what I get for playing on a 5 year old laptop
Elucidating. |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 02:43:00 -
[229] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:What? "EVE is PvP game" concept isn't correct? Can't be. At least not according to this forum.
Seriously - this could explain why game stagnate while CCP prefer to listen its 25% PvP-focused customers instead of real cash cows in high-sec who feel themselves like outcasts while sponsoring FW and null-sec development.
u go now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Mallak Azaria
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 08:32:00 -
[230] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise. I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec.
They pop up here & there. |
|
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
387
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 08:37:00 -
[231] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise. I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec. They pop up here & there.
As someone else mentioned, there are extremists on both sides of the argument, remove all hi sec at one end and make hi sec all cuddly wuddly at the other (and yes I did just use the words "cuddly wuddly" in GD), Most ppl want neither.
Tal
|
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 08:38:00 -
[232] - Quote
It was possible to choose many reasons in that question.
|
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 09:02:00 -
[233] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: And dude, don't get me wrong. I LOVE sandbox. I just don't equate sandbox to griefing, non-consensual PvP and general douchebaggery. They're not in any way linked or required for sandbox to exist. Every sandbox is limited in some way, and limits on just how much freedom a player has in certain areas is always controlled - even in EVE (see Concord). Otherwise it's just anarchy.
Once again someone trying to superimpose alien concepts to a sandbox MMO. It seems to be really difficult to grasp the idea of EVE if you are used to themepark games. First of all, this is a 100% PVP game, with only dashes of limited PVE aspects that wouldn't function in isolation, you will always deal with other players in competitive manner at some point, if only via the market.
Consensual PVP is very limited, and there are no mechanics to control the engagements besides agreements between players.
Exactly just like in RL, there is no escape from other people. You only have civilization and it's institutions that try to punish people who break the accepted norms (represented by formal laws), but this does not protect you from non-consensual violence. In the best case, the guilty is caught and punished appropriately.
Same holds true in EVE. CONCORD, the space police is even more brutal than RL cops (generally speaking) and will blow the offenders ship up in hisec.
This is the sandbox, there is no mechanism that prevents anything (except certain weapon and ship-type restrictions inside hisec) , but every player is presented with a moral choice. If you don't have this choice, you cannot act like a moral being.
Douchebaggery is a human trait, just like stupidity, greed, ignorance and being a scared wuss. In a sandbox, you can react to these, thus creating the holy grail of computer games- emergent gameplay.
Don't be a victim, be a winner. It feels better.
|
Mallak Azaria
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 09:47:00 -
[234] - Quote
Uinuva Karma wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: And dude, don't get me wrong. I LOVE sandbox. I just don't equate sandbox to griefing, non-consensual PvP and general douchebaggery. They're not in any way linked or required for sandbox to exist. Every sandbox is limited in some way, and limits on just how much freedom a player has in certain areas is always controlled - even in EVE (see Concord). Otherwise it's just anarchy.
Once again someone trying to superimpose alien concepts to a sandbox MMO. It seems to be really difficult to grasp the idea of EVE if you are used to themepark games. First of all, this is a 100% PVP game, with only dashes of limited PVE aspects that wouldn't function in isolation, you will always deal with other players in competitive manner at some point, if only via the market. Consensual PVP is very limited, and there are no mechanics to control the engagements besides agreements between players. Exactly just like in RL, there is no escape from other people. You only have civilization and it's institutions that try to punish people who break the accepted norms (represented by formal laws), but this does not protect you from non-consensual violence. In the best case, the guilty is caught and punished appropriately.
This.
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1833
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 10:25:00 -
[235] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Also, you said you had threads about Smartbombing the undocks of newbie systems. You did not produce.
Never said that. Though don't let that get in your way.
Disdaine wrote: And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
Right there. If there aren't any threads expressing a wish to smartbomb rookie systems, how do you know?
Don't make claims you can't back up. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Disdaine
406
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 11:01:00 -
[236] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Also, you said you had threads about Smartbombing the undocks of newbie systems. You did not produce.
Never said that. Though don't let that get in your way. Disdaine wrote: And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
Right there. If there aren't any threads expressing a wish to smartbomb rookie systems, how do you know? Don't make claims you can't back up.
|
charles laforge
Caldari Navy Industrial Division Caldari Navy Reserve
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 12:33:00 -
[237] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It seems to be a response to the idea that in order to retain players they need to be immediately placed into PvP in order to be retained and related ideas about PvP being the primary draw to new players. It's not a claim that the larger portion of the player base doesn't want/like PvP or haven't partaken in it, but perhaps that it can't be the sole advertised draw of the game in order for the greatest potential growth to occur or that it's not the only thing CCP should concentrate on.
I realize I'm going to get the standard "LOL GOONIES LIES GARBAGE GOONIES" **** for posting this but... In goonswarm we do a lot of recruiting from an outside source that is primarily not an "Eve Forum" or even a "Video Game Forum" so this requires we deal with a lot of people who haven't really heard a single whit about Eve save that it may or may not be harder than other games of it's type. In order to get as many people in ships, in the game and interested in playing we've basically taken an entirely different approach than your average player does. 1. We have a skillplan laid out that puts our newbies in a ton of ships so they can try different combat roles in their first 30 and 60 days of playing. 2. We put them into combat on Day 1 if possible. Skillpoint elitism is not allowed. Any open to the general membership op is automatically "Rifter's allowed". 3. We shower them with money and free ships. We purposefully try to keep them away from the boring or super tedious bullshit at least until they get self motivated to try those things out as an adjunct to having fun. I'd wager these things are a large part of our success and cohesiveness.
a very rare and beautiful thing... a goon post that A/makes sence B/ i actually agree with
discounting goons regular asshattery,, they are a unified and creative force, which does have to be respected ( but not always admired) |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page] |