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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Morganta wrote:yeah, while I have to say I fully support the ganking of mining boats the whole "you have slots, use em" argument is misleading
a tanked hulk is about as good as nothing to anything more then a single ganker
now if CCP buffed the CPU or power to the point of them being better then a frigate people may have the chance to tank or go active defense, but really the ORE classes have crap grid and CPU and can't tank much more than rats with a good fit.
I wouldn't mind miners being a little harder to nab and to stand a fighting chance to do more than just get on the concord killmails and lose an expensive boat, hell they may even like it and make the jump to skirmish warfare. This
This
Is crap. You don't even need to tank a retreiver, let alone a hulk, to deal with rats in hi sec. 3 drones will kill the rats for you, with not a single module installed to provide you any bit of extra defense.
Why do you guys keep trying to perpetrate this myth that it's impossible to tank a hulk to deal with the ONE guy trying to blow you up in hi sec. CCP knows you guys are full of crap, as does anyone else who has the openmindedness to actually read what everyonehas been saying in every single thread about this.
Instead you guys just keep coming up with one excuse after the other to say that it's not possible.
First it's OMG, WTF, YEILD!! Then it's OMG, WTF, ISK PER HOUR!!! Then you got OMG, WTF, CONCORD DOESN'T ACTUALLY PROTECT ME!!!! Then you'll move on to OMG, WTF, IT'S GREIFING!!!!! Then we get OMG, WTF, WE HAZ ALL THE RISK!!!!!! Now you're saying OMG, WTF, THE SHIP DOSNT HAZ THE CPU AND POWERZ!!!!!!!
I look forward to the next excuse. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
147
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Morganta wrote:yeah, while I have to say I fully support the ganking of mining boats the whole "you have slots, use em" argument is misleading
a tanked hulk is about as good as nothing to anything more then a single ganker
now if CCP buffed the CPU or power to the point of them being better then a frigate people may have the chance to tank or go active defense, but really the ORE classes have crap grid and CPU and can't tank much more than rats with a good fit.
I wouldn't mind miners being a little harder to nab and to stand a fighting chance to do more than just get on the concord killmails and lose an expensive boat, hell they may even like it and make the jump to skirmish warfare. This This Is crap. You don't even need to tank a retreiver, let alone a hulk, to deal with rats in hi sec. 3 drones will kill the rats for you, with not a single module installed to provide you any bit of extra defense. Why do you guys keep trying to perpetrate this myth that it's impossible to tank a hulk to deal with the ONE guy trying to blow you up in hi sec. CCP knows you guys are full of crap, as does anyone else who has the openmindedness to actually read what everyonehas been saying in every single thread about this. Instead you guys just keep coming up with one excuse after the other to say that it's not possible. First it's OMG, WTF, YEILD!! Then it's OMG, WTF, ISK PER HOUR!!! Then you got OMG, WTF, CONCORD DOESN'T ACTUALLY PROTECT ME!!!! Then you'll move on to OMG, WTF, IT'S GREIFING!!!!! Then we get OMG, WTF, WE HAZ ALL THE RISK!!!!!! Now you're saying OMG, WTF, THE SHIP DOSNT HAZ THE CPU AND POWERZ!!!!!!! I look forward to the next excuse.
You seem angry
Tell us all how many hours you spent mining in you ubber hulk and how awesome your experience is.
brb |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1221
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Is crap. You don't even need to tank a retreiver,
False. The typical retriever (newb) user even with a shield extender will have an hard time suriving a 3 frig spawn at 0.6 sec and 0.5 sec.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
394
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 19:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
FFS man, it's averse/aversion...
If you want your bleatings to be taken seriously, then get grade-3 level English composition right, at least In irae, veritas. |
FeralShadow
Black Storm Cartel
142
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
Omfg this
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
Omfg this
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
Omfg this
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
Omfg this
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
Omfg this
It makes me want to train for a flipping hulk just so I can tank it and troll the gankers and laugh all day long. Too bad I love blowing things up too much. Shift click to open new window. How the Eve Sandbox Works:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=482176#post482176 "I believe in karma. That's why whenever I do something sh**ty to others, they somehow deserved it." |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free.
- First nullbears say that hisec mining is risk-free. - Nullbears start ganking hisec miners and say "Tank yer Hulkz". - Hisec miners tank their Hulks. - Nullbears cry because hisec mining is way too risk-free. |
baltec1
1383
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free. - First nullbears say that hisec mining is risk-free. - Nullbears start ganking hisec miners and say "Tank yer Hulkz". - Hisec miners tank their Hulks. - Nullbears cry because hisec mining is way too risk-free.
Step 3 has not yet happened. Step 4 will never happen, we will simply continue to gank fools in untanked hulks like we kill fools in untanked haulers. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
884
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:- First nullbears say that hisec mining is risk-free. - Nullbears start ganking hisec miners and say "Tank yer Hulkz". - Hisec miners tank their Hulks. - Nullbears cry because hisec mining is way too risk-free.
Step 3 hasn't occurred so let's not get ahead of ourselves
It will never happen because hisec miners believe that CCP will save them eh |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
302
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:baltec1 wrote:Its only risk free because the miners make it risk free. This, a thousand times. Did you know that once a player goes GCC they usually take several more seconds to inflict any damage? Miners could fight back. They choose not to. They choose to post whine threads instead. And occasionally whine spin threads, too. That is why they fail.
How do you suggest miners fight back, throw some veldspar at the gankers? You want fries with that? |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
885
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
also when you can tank 37k EHP against blasters in a Hulk the whole "solo catalyst gank" is not happening
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:How do you suggest miners fight back, throw some veldspar at the gankers?
Fit a tank and pack ECM drones eh |
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baltec1
1383
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
How do you suggest miners fight back, throw some veldspar at the gankers?
Tank it and deploy ECM drones. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1121
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
miners are the only eve players who feel entitled to failfit their ships |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 19:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Step 3 hasn't occurred so let's not get ahead of ourselves
You can try to take down my Rokh in 1.0 space. |
baltec1
1385
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 19:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Step 3 hasn't occurred so let's not get ahead of ourselves You can try to take down my Rokh in 1.0 space.
Why? There are 30 to 40 untanked hulks to make a profit on. Mine away good sir. |
DHuncan
Mostly Harmless Mining Corp Peregrine Nation
12
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Posted - 2012.06.08 19:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah I have read it. I guess all who goes mining, then reproces, then construct, and then use the self made ammo and ship to run some missions is, according to this philosophy, a miner and a carebear. The oposite sort of player is the cool, brave and smart ganker. Now it is clear enaugh. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41496&find=unread
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2012.06.08 20:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why? There are 30 to 40 untanked hulks to make a profit on. Mine away good sir.
Too tough target for you? |
DHuncan
Mostly Harmless Mining Corp Peregrine Nation
12
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Posted - 2012.06.08 20:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Step 3 hasn't occurred so let's not get ahead of ourselves You can try to take down my Rokh in 1.0 space. Why? There are 30 to 40 untanked hulks to make a profit on. Mine away good sir.
To have legitimity to then come here and pretend you have guts, instead of pretending the same after killing miners and taking us all for stupid? You painted an accurate portrail of yourselves guys and guys (with female avatars, this in my village we cal transvestidos). And thats why you are doomed, mark my words. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41496&find=unread
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Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Morganta wrote:MasterEnt wrote:When you really think about it, its not the miners who are Risk-Adverse.
HiSec Miners are - Still out there in HiSec flying expensive ships despite the "war"... RISK.
Gankers are - Loading out cheap combat ships to fight non-combat ships that cannot fight back... NO RISK. - Attacking under circumstances where allies cannot always help out due to HiSec mechanics... NO RISK. - Getting paid to make said attacks, which nullifies loss... NO RISK.
It is actually the gankers who are risk-adverse. Bravo to Hulkageddoners on the spin. Well Played
This is why I love EVE. Now lets move on. ganking is 100% risk since when is a fully fit DPS tornado cheap? 100% RISK concord always helps out the downtrodden 100% RISK 10% of your losses is getting paid? hell insurance pays more... oh but gankers don't get that, do they? 100% RISK your argument is thusly refuted
Its not a risk when you know its going to happen before you take the action, its an expense for the activity you choose to do. Risk implies chance, there is no chance the ganker will not loose his ship. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
886
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Its not a risk when you know its going to happen before you take the action, its an expense for the activity you choose to do. Risk implies chance, there is no chance the ganker will not loose his ship.
make concord chance-based, done, suicide ganking has risk eh |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Zyress wrote:Its not a risk when you know its going to happen before you take the action, its an expense for the activity you choose to do. Risk implies chance, there is no chance the ganker will not loose his ship. make concord chance-based, done, suicide ganking has risk
No then it just has a possible bonus |
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1397
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Posted - 2012.06.08 20:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Morganta wrote:MasterEnt wrote:When you really think about it, its not the miners who are Risk-Adverse.
HiSec Miners are - Still out there in HiSec flying expensive ships despite the "war"... RISK.
Gankers are - Loading out cheap combat ships to fight non-combat ships that cannot fight back... NO RISK. - Attacking under circumstances where allies cannot always help out due to HiSec mechanics... NO RISK. - Getting paid to make said attacks, which nullifies loss... NO RISK.
It is actually the gankers who are risk-adverse. Bravo to Hulkageddoners on the spin. Well Played
This is why I love EVE. Now lets move on. ganking is 100% risk since when is a fully fit DPS tornado cheap? 100% RISK concord always helps out the downtrodden 100% RISK 10% of your losses is getting paid? hell insurance pays more... oh but gankers don't get that, do they? 100% RISK your argument is thusly refuted Its not a risk when you know its going to happen before you take the action, its an expense for the activity you choose to do. Risk implies chance, there is no chance the ganker will not loose his ship.
a calculated risk is still a risk ask any investor or owner of facebook stock The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
101
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 20:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Zyress wrote:Morganta wrote:MasterEnt wrote:When you really think about it, its not the miners who are Risk-Adverse.
HiSec Miners are - Still out there in HiSec flying expensive ships despite the "war"... RISK.
Gankers are - Loading out cheap combat ships to fight non-combat ships that cannot fight back... NO RISK. - Attacking under circumstances where allies cannot always help out due to HiSec mechanics... NO RISK. - Getting paid to make said attacks, which nullifies loss... NO RISK.
It is actually the gankers who are risk-adverse. Bravo to Hulkageddoners on the spin. Well Played
This is why I love EVE. Now lets move on. ganking is 100% risk since when is a fully fit DPS tornado cheap? 100% RISK concord always helps out the downtrodden 100% RISK 10% of your losses is getting paid? hell insurance pays more... oh but gankers don't get that, do they? 100% RISK your argument is thusly refuted Its not a risk when you know its going to happen before you take the action, its an expense for the activity you choose to do. Risk implies chance, there is no chance the ganker will not loose his ship. a calculated risk is still a risk ask any investor or owner of facebook stock
LoL calculated expense, no chance, no risk |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1523
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Simple fix.
Swop the market value of destroyers and hulks.
If destroyers cost 300 mil a pop and Hulks cost 1 mil....
Problem solved. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1008
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Simple fix.
Swop the market value of destroyers and hulks.
If destroyers cost 300 mil a pop and Hulks cost 1 mil....
Problem solved. I'd love 1 mil hulks, tbh. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
I do love how everything that the gankers fly was created through immaculate conception and required no resources from miners at all. If miners didn't exist, you would be shooting spit wads at each other....
This "war", is not nothing more than grand scale market manipulation - those who think that it is anything different are blind to the bigger picture. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.08 22:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
Morganta wrote:
ganking is 100% risk
since when is a fully fit DPS tornado cheap? 100% RISK concord always helps out the downtrodden 100% RISK 10% of your losses is getting paid? hell insurance pays more... oh but gankers don't get that, do they? 100% RISK
your argument is thusly refuted
All of those are known quantities so they're a cost rather than a risk. Plus, if your ganking for profit, the cost of ships, insurance and modules are an investment.
And seriously... "thusly refuted?" |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1489
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 00:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
Morganta wrote:ganking is 100% risk
The "risk" in ganking is the cost a gank modified by the chance that your outcome will not be achieved. That catalyst you are using to suicide gank is an expense, not a risk. You know that it is going to be destroyed as part of your activity and you have planned to exchange the value of a Catalyst for the value of an explosion (ideally two explosions, one being the target).
Risk = Cost of Attempt x Chance of Failure
Reward = Value of Success x Chance of Success
Since you as the ganker can take measures to reduce the chance of failure to 0 (i.e.: get a proper warp-in, survey the target before shooting it), the risk drops very quickly to 0. You as the ganker also have economic value to extract from your success: make sure you have a salvager around who can scoop up the material from your wreck and the target's wreck, and salvage the two.
Suicide ganking exhumers in hisec is a relatively risk-free activity. The burden is security status loss, but even that isn't much of a burden if you have appropriate infrastructure available: an alt flying an orca providing you with a supply of ganking catalysts means you can laugh in the face of hisec denizens everywhere. You perform your gank, you have an alt in a frigate scooping up the goods* & salvaging the wrecks, then you sit back and relax for 15 minutes until your next attempt (or better, switch to another character on the same account and gank every 5 minutes).
* the hard part here is remembering to scoop into jet cans when the stuff you're trying to scoop won't fit in cargo, and you'll be competing with jackals attempting to profit from your endeavour.
Ganking is most certainly not 100% risk. To claim such is to suggest that mission-running is 100% risk because you lose all that ammo!
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
816
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Morganta wrote:ganking is 100% risk stuff Chance of failure can never be zero. There is always a chance that lag will mess you up (which the ganker cannot completely prepare against). |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1228
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Morganta wrote: a calculated risk is still a risk ask any investor or owner of facebook stock
TBH those who invested in facebook stock must play zero tank Hulks in EvE. The brain is just that one. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1228
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 01:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Morganta wrote:ganking is 100% risk stuff Chance of failure can never be zero. There is always a chance that lag will mess you up (which the ganker cannot completely prepare against).
Same for L4 missions. The server could shut down. An earthquake could destroy CCP's datacenter and other similar frequent events. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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