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Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
141
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
I wouldn't support moving lvl 4s to low sec either.
That's just not the answer to the low sec incentivization issue. Low sec already has lvl 5s, better anoms/complexes, and added industrial incentives (minerals in belts, moon mining, etc.) So the potential for increased isk is already there. That hasn't solved the problem and adding more won't do it either.
This seems more like a request for a high-sec stick than a low sec carrot. People continually call for more sticks in high sec, but you can't make the player experience there inhospitable. That's counterproductive to new player retention. Neither can you make risk-averse players choose to be risk-takers. Most would just quit rather than play that way.
The answer to low sec (and null) incentivization has got to be a different kind of carrot than additional financial considerations. The answer could include new content, but it should probably be ships/activities as opposed to more loot. Part of the solution may also be normalization and incentivization of consensual pvp in high sec to increase the number of social groups willing to venture out. To that end, I've drafted an idea myself called hive mining that I think combines mining and pvp in a way I haven't seen discussed before. It's a start. I've even suggested that low sec defensive bonuses could potentially give risk-averse players an added sense of safety while making combat there more challenging.
But moving lvl 4s in and of itself, would change nothing. They'd just run lvl 3s then. CCP needs ways to make risk-averse players want to go to low sec/ null.
We need a magic feather - not a stick.
Yonis Kador Hive Mining: A proposal by Yonis-áKador-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1427915&#post1427915
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Large Marg
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:We've seen incursions get nerfed. We've seen the drone goop nerf. Inferno is leading up to a good hit, but the one that would knock it out of the park to making EVE a true sensation would be sending all Level 4's to Low-sec.
This would indeed make things better :)
Send all missions to low sec and cut the mission ISK in 1/2 as well.
Or just do away with any PVE and make all of Eve 0.0
/em rubs hands together and says "MUHAHAHAHA"
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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
23
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:We've seen incursions get nerfed. We've seen the drone goop nerf. Inferno is leading up to a good hit, but the one that would knock it out of the park to making EVE a true sensation would be sending all Level 4's to Low-sec.
This would indeed make things better :)
peopel woudl simply not do it. Level 4 require battleships most of time and they are too slow to be useful in low sec. CCP could make that change only if the missiosn were more like FW missiosn, fast kill a single target and get the #!@# out of the field.
Missiosn that take 20 minutes to be doen in low sec with a marauder will NOT HAPPEN!. Pirates are jsut stupid if they think missioners are that dumb .
If level 3 that are in low sec woudl pay MORE than the level 4s in high sec. THEN we woudl have something! That would allow for HAcs doign level 3s ver |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
79
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
They can move level 4 missions if, and only if, they add more PvE content to the game.
Hi-sec is not the starter area, it could have been, but the playerbase has made it into a permanent home for many people.
Until players don't feel like they have to kiss butts and put up with every other jerkwad in lowsec and 0.0, people will continue to inhabit hi sec. |
Dyvim Slorm
MNU Operations Luna Sanguinem
29
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Posted - 2012.06.09 00:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Seishi Maru wrote:
peopel woudl simply not do it. Level 4 require battleships most of time and they are too slow to be useful in low sec. CCP could make that change only if the missiosn were more like FW missiosn, fast kill a single target and get the #!@# out of the field.
Well you can do them just as easily in a command ship but that's still not agile enough to get through the inevitable gate camps.
Other problems are that pve fits are not good for pvp and unless the reward for L4's was significantly upgraded there would simply be no reason to risk doing them.
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Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
19
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
all ideas here r bullcraps , make teh COONCOARDS shewt all peeps with positive sec status, period, i bet ccp like this idea |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:We've seen incursions get nerfed. We've seen the drone goop nerf. Inferno is leading up to a good hit, but the one that would knock it out of the park to making EVE a true sensation would be sending all Level 4's to Low-sec.
This would indeed make things better :)
You know what? I support this! I really do!
I mean, so what if 60%+ of the population lives in high sec? Let's tick them off some more, see if we can get them to ragequit. It'll work wonders for the game.
Population will plummet, CCP will panic and overcompensate by making the game too safe. Players will come back. Or not...and if not it'll be another abject lesson about how a developer should pay attention to their player base and not make silly decisions to benefit a vocal minority. Win, win.
So, yeah. Do it. Can't possibly do any harm. I mean, it could kill the game, but it had a good run. Here's an idea - release this patch on the 10th year anniversary, to make things really memorable.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
66
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
I hope CCP will stop listen to "EVE is about null-sec and group PvP" minority so we won't see EVE+CCP floating belly up but instead WiS, better/more content for hi-sec, and hundred(s) of thousands of new players. |
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
179
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Posted - 2012.06.09 02:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote: Sorry I want the MMO to be a sandbox, not a kiddie pool.
So stop acting like a spoiled child.
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Shou Kaukonen
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.06.09 02:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'm all for the idea of doing something to breathe a bit of life into low sec, having spent quite a bit of time there myself, but I second the opinion stated earlier - low needs something NEW to be truly revitalized. What the OP suggests is taking an element of gameplay, and magnifying it: making it drastically more profitable, on paper, to run missions in low than in high. The thing is, that's already the only real draw of low-sec. Yes, missions, exploration and industry all boast larger rewards out there - but low sec already has that going for it, and the reason it hasn't really helped is because the pve'ers who would benefit from them is precisely the sort of player who looks at the risk and goes 'f this, I'm going mining/missioning/industry-ing'. People who are willing to take the risk inevitably wind up in null, where the real money is, and everyone else stays home in high-sec. It's a good thought, but unfortunately taken in the wrong direction. |
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Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
100
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Posted - 2012.06.09 04:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Level 5's got moved to Lowsec for good. (no more agents giving you highsec missions)
Look how well that turned out.
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oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
584
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Posted - 2012.06.09 04:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
ah another we have more risk thread pushing that button ,not expecting something. But suddenly the door opens and the next thing i see myself flooting in space,just before i wake up again. thank god for clones |
Gogela
Direct Action LLC.
804
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Posted - 2012.06.09 05:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
in before lock.
booyah.
This thread is officially about thread locks.
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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.06.09 05:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Level 5's got moved to Lowsec for good. (no more agents giving you highsec missions)
Look how well that turned out.
I agree if you need to camp mission runners in low sec well you can. All of the level 5 content is already in low sec. They have much better rewards and more value than level 4's. So what is the problem? Lots and lots of juicy targets in low sec doing level 5's. What a target rich environment! |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
909
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Posted - 2012.06.09 05:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Takamori Maruyama wrote:Unsubs= not good, we want to see the game expand.
sorry if some of us disagree with your assessment that finding ways of bringing in truckloads of wow trash is good for the game eh |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1011
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Posted - 2012.06.09 05:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Level 5's got moved to Lowsec for good. (no more agents giving you highsec missions)
Look how well that turned out. I agree if you need to camp mission runners in low sec well you can. All of the level 5 content is already in low sec. They have much better rewards and more value than level 4's. So what is the problem? Lots and lots of juicy targets in low sec doing level 5's. What a target rich environment! Yeah, too bad they just decided to do L4s. But L5s were supposed to be in lowsec, and I've never heard anyone suggest that L4s were not intended for highsec, so leave it to them.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
221
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Posted - 2012.06.09 05:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:We've seen incursions get nerfed. We've seen the drone goop nerf. Inferno is leading up to a good hit, but the one that would knock it out of the park to making EVE a true sensation would be sending all Level 4's to Low-sec.
This would indeed make things better :)
hogwash. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
795
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Posted - 2012.06.09 07:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Level 5's got moved to Lowsec for good. (no more agents giving you highsec missions)
Look how well that turned out.
Well, actually it all went like "Huh, there is a bug that allows players to do Lvl5s, let's fix it so nobody gives a damm of them".
Extreme success ensued and as far as we know Lvl5 agents could be broken for a year and nobody notice.
(True Story TM) EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
144
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Posted - 2012.06.09 08:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
After giving this more thought (mostly on my hour-long commute to work) I'm less confident in my earlier "magic feather" statement. I'm now convinced that this idea (and especially more loot) will not motivate risk-averse players to low/null.
And I think the proof this is true can be found in Incursions.
Not only do incursions offer increased isk and dynamic gameplay, but they appear in high sec and actually disrupt the lives of the risk-averse. Tanked rats appear in the systems these guys normally mine and mission in - totally inconveniencing all.
So if CCP brought the party to the risk-averse, gave them access to increased isk, and penalized them for inaction - and they still didn't fight - well, lvl 4s in low sec sure won't do the trick either.
For a diametric shift of any sort to occur, there has to be a concerted, designed effort to change the ways mining and pvp are utilized in this game. They are too incompatible. Ships with dual mining and pvp functions may be necessary. Random rats may have to start popping up in belts and outside stations. Safety from crime shouldn't translate to safety from the universe. I think people could survive a cruiser rat every now and then in 0.5s.
Maybe CCP could also spawn more gravimetric sigs in certain sec systems and have various rat spawns pop up every few minutes instead of every 15. Increase variation in the minimal risks the risk-averse do face on a daily basis. The risk-averse may bite on new high sec rocks to mine and would need protection while they mine the site.
Ideas need to be generated which cause mining and pvp to overlap in novel ways, offering incentives to miners to engage in pvp - but perhaps not on the massive scale of Incursions. And if the incentive is great mining in high sec with increased risk from pve elements, it might start the ball rolling. And then in a graduated way, you move more of the playerbase away from 100 percent risk-aversion and toward less apprehension to exploration with additional updates.
I may not support the risk-averse being offered up as scooby snacks for risk takers' gaming pleasure but I also recognize that a huge, stagnant, risk-averse playerbase is not conducive to the longevity of this game.
Yonis Kador Hive Mining: A proposal by Yonis-áKador-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1427915&#post1427915
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ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
692
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Posted - 2012.06.09 08:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:This has been discussed before, the potential rage quitting make it probably not going to happen I know, it's been batted so many times, but things are looking up to making it happen. I could care less about the AFK guy with his 4 alt accounts, he's afk anyhow not playing so why is he upset that he won't be playing what he doesn't play? derp. Because most people arent AFK with 4 alts running lvl 4s I just gotta go fast! |
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Jonni Favorite
Aliastra Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.06.09 08:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Stop trying to make eve enjoyable for a minority.
This. OP you are a silly man..
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Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.06.09 09:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
What makes people so risk-averse, that they cannot leave hisec?
This is such an incredibly awesome virtual world, and you hisec people miss out on 90% of it.
I mean, all you lose is what you fly, why so scared?
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Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
536
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Uinuva Karma wrote:I mean, all you lose is what you fly, why so scared? It is definitively better than losing ones mind in highsec.
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
171
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
L4 in lowsec would be great. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Have all mission agents work on a supply and demand principle where the more players are running a particular agent's missions, the more he can lower his payouts to take advantage of the labour surplus, and vice versa.
This would do wonders for restoring risk/reward balance as the more daring mission runners ventured out to take advantage of little-used agents in unused corners of lowsec and npc 0.0. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
386
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
D3F4ULT wrote:We've seen incursions get nerfed. We've seen the drone goop nerf. Inferno is leading up to a good hit, but the one that would knock it out of the park to making EVE a true sensation would be sending all Level 4's to Low-sec.
This would indeed make things better :)
Why ?
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
386
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Takamori Maruyama wrote:Unsubs= not good, we want to see the game expand. sorry if some of us disagree with your assessment that finding ways of bringing in truckloads of wow trash is good for the game
Rather than the trash we have now ?
Tal
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
386
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Have all mission agents work on a supply and demand principle where the more players are running a particular agent's missions, the more he can lower his payouts to take advantage of the labour surplus, and vice versa.
This would do wonders for restoring risk/reward balance as the more daring mission runners ventured out to take advantage of little-used agents in unused corners of lowsec and npc 0.0.
Where all your bored little bees will be waiting ? No thanks
Tal
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Jonni Favorite
Aliastra Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
Uinuva Karma wrote:What makes people so risk-averse, that they cannot leave hisec?
This is such an incredibly awesome virtual world, and you hisec people miss out on 90% of it.
I mean, all you lose is what you fly, why so scared?
You're also supersilly, missing the forest for the trees. You assume that every *high sec dweller* is exclusively that. Get a clue kid!
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.06.09 10:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Have all mission agents work on a supply and demand principle where the more players are running a particular agent's missions, the more he can lower his payouts to take advantage of the labour surplus, and vice versa.
This would do wonders for restoring risk/reward balance as the more daring mission runners ventured out to take advantage of little-used agents in unused corners of lowsec and npc 0.0. Where all your bored little bees will be waiting ? No thanks Tal
Oh no the mission runners might have to take some basic precautions while they make money Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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