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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.13 06:09:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith Has the new board considered putting up an announcement asking people to 'claim their isk' - perhaps via inputting a withdrawal for it or similar measures?
Ah, thanks, I knew I had forgotten to reply to one of the decent posts.
Yes, we have. In fact I have scripted a procedure to dump all ISK into a suspense account, with the idea that this account would only allow transfers back to your sweep account, and from there you could request a withdrawal or transfer to another player.
We're also contemplating requiring people to provide their limited API key in order to transfer the ISK out of the suspense account. There are arguments for and against this approach I'm sure, feel free to voice yours.
Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith Separate from this, have their been considerations for removing interest and counting balance as only principle (a la FDIC insurance), to see what sort of picture that paints?
We're aiming to provide this as an option. Other than that, if we completely removed interest it would move many accounts into the red. As to what effect it would have on the overall figures, the public financials list the total interest paid on the loss analysis sheet, minus that from the 2.013b ISK on hand and you'll have your answer.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.13 06:15:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
We're also contemplating requiring people to provide their limited API key in order to transfer the ISK out of the suspense account. There are arguments for and against this approach I'm sure, feel free to voice yours.
What differences does the API key make?
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.13 10:14:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Brock Nelson What differences does the API key make?
It would boost CCP revenue by requiring people to activate an otherwise dormant account. We're attempting to blackmail them for a cut of those earnings (converted to ISK of course), but LV and OZ didn't manage to get many compromising dev photographs at fanfest. And, tbh, if you're willing to release a video like that on to the internets, there's probably not much that you would find compromising.
The only benefit I can see we would get is from preventing people with banned accounts being able to login and withdraw their ISK.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.13 10:33:00 -
[184]
Originally by: DeathGrip
Originally by: SentryRaven
Originally by: Tesal If no else one knows, I assume KIA leadership does because they would need to know that before they let them in the alliance.
Yup. :)
Why would Kia leadership care, they stole 250bil isk from Ebank as well, or did you all forget that part?
Quite indeed. And we have also robbed 203 Titans from EBANK, incl. the 200.456 janitors working on them.
Just let your fantasy run wild there, you seem to be pretty good at it. --------
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Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 11:18:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 13/10/2009 11:19:00
Originally by: Ray McCormack The only benefit I can see we would get is from preventing people with banned accounts being able to login and withdraw their ISK.
At first I thought that would be unnecesary and pointless to require APIs, but now I see it needs to be done unless you want to give money back to RMT minions. I asked long time ago about the posibility of EBanks money being gone because RMT bans (the money from the profits not acounted in your first money info release) and the posibility of you guys working to pay RMT guys. Someone said (mrH or LVV, I don't remember who) that you tracked that things. Then someone else from the board said that was not true and never happened. Can you clarify on this issue? Do you have RMT checks on your software? Is it possible to verify who was the owner of the money banned? If not, I think it is neccesary to request API in order to avoid at least CCP's banned RMTraders. If you request the APIs, do you reserve the right to use them against scammers? EBank scammers only? MD scammers too? |
Solisk
Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.13 12:51:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Solisk Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?
I thought this was a fair question, didn't see it answered though.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:42:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Solisk
Originally by: Solisk Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?
I thought this was a fair question, didn't see it answered though.
Sure it's possible.
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2009.10.13 18:04:00 -
[188]
Been an interesting case study in corruption this year in EvE.
BoB, two of the banks...I wonder what's next? Are there any large player driven enterprises left to be ruined?
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 18:50:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Solisk
Originally by: Solisk Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?
I thought this was a fair question, didn't see it answered though.
Sure it's possible.
1. Did Ricdic and Mr H collaborate closely on the unsecured KIA loan or any other failed projects or loans? Do you have reason to believe they worked together to scam EBank?
2. Why is anyone from KIA still an EBank employee, why would you keep their associates on board? They seem to have had a scam ring operating inside EBank. How many people do you need in the bank, and can you shrink the organization more for security purposes?
3. Since KIA alliance as an organization seems to have had a hand in the fraud and loan default/theft, will you be holding their organization responsible in any way or start turning their depositors away?
4. Who maintains the EBank website, forums and software and holds the domains? Will these go away? Do you have enough records to do a forensic audit?
never stop posting...with alts. Now you know what it is to be owned. Mittani alt says hi. I win. You lose. For the honor of spit stained basement dwelling virgins. |
Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2009.10.13 19:05:00 -
[190]
Is anybody even the least bit surprised? If they're still stealing, even after everything has been "locked down," it's obvious this thing is on it's last legs. Please continue to give us the play-by-play of the slow motion disaster that is EBank. |
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 19:17:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz Is anybody even the least bit surprised? If they're still stealing, even after everything has been "locked down," it's obvious this thing is on it's last legs. Please continue to give us the play-by-play of the slow motion disaster that is EBank.
There are still some valuable assets in the bank, and there is new management that is capable, and something can be salvaged. Its not completely hopeless.
never stop posting...with alts. Now you know what it is to be owned. Mittani alt says hi. I win. You lose. For the honor of spit stained basement dwelling virgins. |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2009.10.13 21:27:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 13/10/2009 21:29:04 7/10
Would read again!
I think you guys should come up with a few more reasons as to how you managed to squander 1.4 trillion isk. I would say you should blame another 100B "discrepency" on a player that is going to take a break for a while.
LVV and Athre, after letting 1.4B isk somehow get displaced, are criticizing and patronizing others? Lol? Really?
Keep it coming! This stuff is great!
-GV
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2009.10.13 22:11:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 13/10/2009 21:29:04 7/10
Would read again!
I think you guys should come up with a few more reasons as to how you managed to squander 1.4 trillion isk. I would say you should blame another 100B "discrepency" on a player that is going to take a break for a while.
LVV and Athre, after letting 1.4B isk somehow get displaced, are criticizing and patronizing others? Lol? Really?
Keep it coming! This stuff is great!
-GV
Careful. Talk like yours (ie stating the obvious) is the fastest way to get labeled a troll 'round these parts. You're either with Comrade Ray or you're a no-name, no-rep, bridge dwelling creature. Good times =P
-L
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.13 22:16:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz Is anybody even the least bit surprised? If they're still stealing, even after everything has been "locked down," it's obvious this thing is on it's last legs. Please continue to give us the play-by-play of the slow motion disaster that is EBank.
There are still some valuable assets in the bank, and there is new management that is capable, and something can be salvaged. Its not completely hopeless.
Have you been paying attention to anything that's been going on?
That isk, is now the personal assets of the board. You might get some back if they feel like it.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 23:12:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz Is anybody even the least bit surprised? If they're still stealing, even after everything has been "locked down," it's obvious this thing is on it's last legs. Please continue to give us the play-by-play of the slow motion disaster that is EBank.
There are still some valuable assets in the bank, and there is new management that is capable, and something can be salvaged. Its not completely hopeless.
Have you been paying attention to anything that's been going on?
That isk, is now the personal assets of the board. You might get some back if they feel like it.
I never put any of my own personal isk in EBank, but I didn't have zero exposure. I am interested in the assets they have and what a buyout might bring, especially once things have settled down after the patch and the isk fountains dry up. I am also interested in naming and shaming the thieves.
If anyone can get any isk back it is Ray. He might be able to salvage something. I am more than a bit curious why a Goon is so intent on taking out the current board, and is trying to wreck Ray and LVV's ability to be effective. Why are you blaming them instead of the people who actually stole the isk? If you take out or break the current board you won't get your isk back. That is a guarantee. Why would you do that? But then again, maybe that is not what you are after.
I bolded that so you would read it and write it down. To make sure you record it I will repeat it.
But then again, maybe that is not what you are after.
Why would you want to take out the current board, because then you won't get your isk back? What are you after...hmmm...that is a damn good question.
never stop posting...with alts. Now you know what it is to be owned. Mittani alt says hi. I win. You lose. For the honor of spit stained basement dwelling virgins. |
Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:53:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Ray McCormack The IP address corresponding to Mr H's accounts resolves to his company website, which lists his personal details.
Excellent, since I know where he works I shall inject a few hundred billion ISK under his IP address. After all it isn't that hard to use a proxy or do injection attacks to fake IP addresses. I shall see EBanks Defecit from 1.2 trillion to upwards of 4 or 5 trillion ISK all due to me.
See how easy that is to get a ton of ISK under a fake IP address??
Once you guys can actually prove that the accounts are one and the same then I wil give it a rest, until then you might as well just post "I have scammed you, thanks a lot".
Faking IP addresses is easier to do than breathing. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass then you might realize that.
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Lady Centrina
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Posted - 2009.10.14 02:17:00 -
[197]
What is the big deal with the IP address and finding out if Mr. H had fake deposits? The question is, did he withdraw funds from EBANK?
If I missed that part then I will of course be quite, it just seems that blaming someone for faking deposits isn't nearly as important as fully disclosing how much isk Ric's RMT scandal and what assets were lost.
Also, could someone list how many hard assets EBANK has besides isk? IE T2 BPO's, ships held in collateral for loans etc...
I have less than 100 million in my EBANKS so I am not "that" upset if it is all lost. In fact, just reading the threads while I mission grind I have earned that much back and enjoyed myself at the same time.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.14 05:39:00 -
[198]
Look ma, I have an opinion.
I'll get to the relevant questions tonight.
In the meantime I'm off to fake more IP addresses...
To clarify, no one is saying we're using IP addresses as evidence, it just came up in the topic for some reason.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.10.14 06:01:00 -
[199]
Ray, question: is there an updated version of the EBANK public financials spreadsheet? I'm curious as to how recent developments (Mr. H and Anastasia especially) have altered the situation.
Originally by: Karanth Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:07:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Tesal
1. Did Ricdic and Mr H collaborate closely on the unsecured KIA loan or any other failed projects or loans? Do you have reason to believe they worked together to scam EBank?
2. Why is anyone from KIA still an EBank employee, why would you keep their associates on board? They seem to have had a scam ring operating inside EBank. How many people do you need in the bank, and can you shrink the organization more for security purposes?
3. Since KIA alliance as an organization seems to have had a hand in the fraud and loan default/theft, will you be holding their organization responsible in any way or start turning their depositors away?
4. Who maintains the EBank website, forums and software and holds the domains? Will these go away? Do you have enough records to do a forensic audit?
1. I was obviously not involved in the KIA loan. However I'm fairly sure that the board was made aware of the loan. I also seem to recall there being a vote at some point. However I personally don't believe that they tried to scam EBANK.
2.I disagree with your conclusion that they were operating a "scam ring". However Sentryraven is of great value to the EBANK operation, as he operates the forums and helpdesk.
4. Currently I own the domain. I used to maintain the website, however while things are ongoing I won't be doing that. Sentryraven operates our forum and helpdesk.
Neither of which will go away.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:14:00 -
[201]
Quote: After all it isn't that hard to use a proxy
That would require you to have access to a proxy hosted on his IP address. Quote: or do injection attacks to fake IP addresses
Best of luck. EBANK uses modern technologies, that can withstand SQL injections.
Quote: I shall see EBanks Defecit from 1.2 trillion to upwards of 4 or 5 trillion ISK all due to me.
Excellent. If you manage to do that and ever go to fanfest, I will make sure to buy you a beer.
Quote: See how easy that is to get a ton of ISK under a fake IP address??
No, sorry. Your examples were rather poor. I can think of much better ways.
Quote: Faking IP addresses is easier to do than breathing. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass then you might realize that.
I'm going to offer you 50mill if you are able to fake my IP address. You clearly know what you are talking about, seeing as it's easier than breathing.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:32:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Frenden Dax Ray, question: is there an updated version of the EBANK public financials spreadsheet? I'm curious as to how recent developments (Mr. H and Anastasia especially) have altered the situation.
I think I updated the Anastasia theft, that would reflect in the Venture investment amount. I'm holding off adjusting account balances (such as Mr H's and various loan defaults) until we can do them together.
At a brief glance, the ISK gained from wiping Mr H's accounts will be negated by the loan defaults we have to write off.
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Syphal
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:38:00 -
[203]
Originally by: LaVista Vista I disagree with your conclusion that they were operating a "scam ring". However Sentryraven is of great value to the EBANK operation, as he operates the forums and helpdesk.
So far KIA has given EBANK's victims a director who turned out to be a hypocrite, a director who turned out to be a thief, and a crippling 275B ISK default. As an organization it has caused more cumulative financial damage than Ricdic's embezzlement.
The bank always vaunted its political neutrality. Can that claim still be taken seriously, or could it simply be coincidence that one alliance with three senior members on the board not only received massive preferential, unsecured loans, but is ultimately responsible for most of the current deficit?
I'm not sure if this has been answered before, so I will ask here. How much liquid ISK does EBANK have left in the wallets of directors/tellers, who is holding it, and in what amounts? |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:52:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Syphal Edited by: Syphal on 14/10/2009 10:45:40
Originally by: LaVista Vista I disagree with your conclusion that they were operating a "scam ring". However Sentryraven is of great value to the EBANK operation, as he operates the forums and helpdesk.
So far KIA has given EBANK's victims a director who turned out to be a hypocrite, a director who turned out to be a thief, and a crippling 275B ISK default. As an organization it has caused more cumulative financial damage than Ricdic's embezzlement.
The bank always vaunted its political neutrality. Can that claim still be taken seriously, or could it simply be coincidence that one alliance with three senior members on the board not only received massive preferential, unsecured loans, but is ultimately responsible for most of the current deficit?
Good questions :)
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:01:00 -
[205]
Yeah, let's all burn KIA at the stake, that'll fix everything,
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Syphal
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:55:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Yeah, let's all burn KIA at the stake, that'll fix everything,
They're doing that themselves.
Looking back as an auditor, is it your opinion that favouritism may have been shown to KIA in the granting of loans due to the alliance members on the board, and that this was a major cause of the liquidity crisis? If that isn't your interpretation, how do you account for the coincidence? |
Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:02:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Yeah, let's all burn KIA at the stake, that'll fix everything,
Well sure, but they are questions that should be answered none the less.
To a neutral observer (i.e. me) it looks like KIA got a massive loan with no collateral, then defaulted. Despite this, high level KIA members are still a part of ebank.
It certainly seems rather odd. Unless of course these facts are wrong. They are mostly just hearsay after all. --------------------------------------
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:40:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Ambo
Well sure, but they are questions that should be answered none the less.
To a neutral observer (i.e. me) it looks like KIA got a massive loan with no collateral, then defaulted. Despite this, high level KIA members are still a part of ebank.
It certainly seems rather odd. Unless of course these facts are wrong. They are mostly just hearsay after all.
I see how it might look odd. But here's the deal:
KIA has always been a fairly large customer for EBANK. At some point, they wanted to take out another loan for some alliance stuff(Funding alliance building and selling or whatever). Given the track-record, the board agreed to extend this loan.
The alliance program was an operation that several corporations had access to, one of them are known as "Divine Power". Basically they decided that seeing some odd 250bill worth of stuff in a hangar was too much, and they nicked it.
That's the very simple outline of what happened. There's a few minor details, however they have no impact on the reasonable conclusion, which is: KIA did not act maliciously towards EBANK, but was a victim just as EBANK is.
Of course, in hindsight this was handled very poorly. But that's another story.
Kicking the person who has put lots of work into EBANK infrastructure, which helps the customers, is an irrational witch hunt. Hence, Sentryraven stayed onboard(I'm saying this from my point of view, I have absolutely no say in the matter)
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:44:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Kalrand
Have you been paying attention to anything that's been going on?
That isk, is now the personal assets of the board. You might get some back if they feel like it.
I never put any of my own personal isk in EBank, but I didn't have zero exposure. I am interested in the assets they have and what a buyout might bring, especially once things have settled down after the patch and the isk fountains dry up. I am also interested in naming and shaming the thieves.
If anyone can get any isk back it is Ray. He might be able to salvage something. I am more than a bit curious why a Goon is so intent on taking out the current board, and is trying to wreck Ray and LVV's ability to be effective. Why are you blaming them instead of the people who actually stole the isk? If you take out or break the current board you won't get your isk back. That is a guarantee. Why would you do that? But then again, maybe that is not what you are after.
I bolded that so you would read it and write it down. To make sure you record it I will repeat it.
But then again, maybe that is not what you are after.
Why would you want to take out the current board, because then you won't get your isk back? What are you after...hmmm...that is a damn good question.
1) I never had any isk in Ebank.
2) I openly mocked the idea of people giving money to Ebank in this forum before everything came to light.
3) The current board of Ebank stole all the isk that was left the moment they shut down withdrawals.
4) I'm always amazed at how everyone still considers these people to be among the most "trustworthy" of anyone on this forumn.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:58:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Ji Sama on 14/10/2009 13:58:51
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Ambo
Well sure, but they are questions that should be answered none the less.
To a neutral observer (i.e. me) it looks like KIA got a massive loan with no collateral, then defaulted. Despite this, high level KIA members are still a part of ebank.
It certainly seems rather odd. Unless of course these facts are wrong. They are mostly just hearsay after all.
I see how it might look odd. But here's the deal:
KIA has always been a fairly large customer for EBANK. At some point, they wanted to take out another loan for some alliance stuff(Funding alliance building and selling or whatever). Given the track-record, the board agreed to extend this loan.
The alliance program was an operation that several corporations had access to, one of them are known as "Divine Power". Basically they decided that seeing some odd 250bill worth of stuff in a hangar was too much, and they nicked it.
That's the very simple outline of what happened. There's a few minor details, however they have no impact on the reasonable conclusion, which is: KIA did not act maliciously towards EBANK, but was a victim just as EBANK is.
Of course, in hindsight this was handled very poorly. But that's another story.
Kicking the person who has put lots of work into EBANK infrastructure, which helps the customers, is an irrational witch hunt. Hence, Sentryraven stayed onboard(I'm saying this from my point of view, I have absolutely no say in the matter)
That does explain it :)
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