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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:27:00 -
[1]
Now I'm not stupid and know you should never take a carrier out without protection, but let's just imagine this scenario; A single carrier ratting or doing something else in a low sec system (away from a station). The system is not very densely populated, but it's not empty either.
I don't have much experience from low sec, but have been on a few roams with 10-15 newbs in frigates and cruisers. We've seen a few cynos, but we would NEVER have flown there as we know we would be killed.
When I see gatecamps in low sec they are usually pretty small (a few ships, mostly T2 frigates, cruisers). Sometimes you see a few battleships but that's not very often.
It seems to me that these numbers and ships couldn't under normal circumstances take on even a single carrier. They just lack the firepower and tanking power to inflict any sufficient damage.
Of course there are still risks: * roaming battleship gangs * a gang that has observed the carrier under longer time and built a specific fit to take it down * 0.0 people jumping in large capital fleets just to "have fun" * another carrier or two jumping into the same system
But as long as one keeps track on spiking local or unknown cynos it feels like a carrier is quite safe (within reason of course) in low sec. As long as the number of people are 10 or lower in the system, even if they all attacked at the same time they would probably not have the firepower needed.
So, is my assessment correct, or am I placing too much confidence in the power of carriers? They look powerful on paper, but is it true in game?
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Nightsabre
Caldari T-Cells
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:30:00 -
[2]
Best answer is, it depends on the low sec, some areas you can wander around in a carrier with no problems at all, in other areas, you will be ****d in the face the second you jump into system.
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OwlManAtt
Gallente Yasashii Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:33:00 -
[3]
Quote: A single carrier ratting
Why in the name of all that is good would you use a billion ISK hull for ratting? Battlecruisers align faster and you can make up for that loss with a night of ratting... --- Owl |
Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Daedalus II Now I'm not stupid and know you should never take a carrier out without protection
No, just inexperienced.
Originally by: Daedalus II But as long as one keeps track on spiking local or unknown cynos it feels like a carrier is quite safe (within reason of course) in low sec. As long as the number of people are 10 or lower in the system, even if they all attacked at the same time they would probably not have the firepower needed.
You only wish. The problem isn't the hostiles present but the hostiles that would come in droves to get in on a capital killmail.
Originally by: Daedalus II So, is my assessment correct, or am I placing too much confidence in the power of carriers? They look powerful on paper, but is it true in game?
You are. Even if you can stand up to what's around, odds are you'll be tackled by multiple targets and before you can peel them all of you more baddies will arrive. People who are neutral to each other will gang up on you for the chance at a capital killmail.
Can you get away with playing with a carrier solo in lowsec/0.0 a few times? Absolutely. But the fun will end abuptly and with much heartache eventually if you keep doing it. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request |
Lorimer
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:39:00 -
[5]
"As long as the number of people are 10 or lower in the system, even if they all attacked at the same time they would probably not have the firepower needed."
Alas thats simply not true - I have seen 3 BS's take down a carrier easily if fitted correctly
The best advice I can give you is "Dont rat in a capital in low sec"
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:42:00 -
[6]
Ok all sensible answers (amazing I know, this being an EVE forum and all )
So another question:
How much protection would you deem adequate for a single carrier in a low sec system? A couple of battleships? A couple of interceptors? destroyers? cruisers?
I guess the most important thing would be for the protection to "peel off" scrambling ships in a quick and efficient manner?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:49:00 -
[7]
It is complete safe if you know the right system.
For a small fee I can tell you which system would be best for you
Joking aside, the carrier will die in no time.
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Cuchulain Spartan
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Daedalus II
So another question:
How much protection would you deem adequate for a single carrier in a low sec system? A couple of battleships? A couple of interceptors? destroyers? cruisers?
I guess the most important thing would be for the protection to "peel off" scrambling ships in a quick and efficient manner?
No such thing. All it needs is one heavy interdictor to point you and cyno in his buddies, I've seen it a dozen times. You will go from 2 locals to 50 locals ina few seconds and your carrier wont last 2 minutes.
If you want to rat with a carrier, park it at a pos or npc station, get 2 of your buddies in shuttles, assign fighters to the shuttles and have your friends rat the belts in their shuttles using your fighters for dps. If the carrier is attack just dock it up or move inside the pos shield. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:56:00 -
[9]
If the carrier is hiding inside the station; aka station hugging. The chance of having any problems... pretty damn slim.
The moment you leave the station hugging position... you better be inside a pos. Anyone and everyone is going to be bothering you. Unless the situation really screams tarp.
Pandemic legion(sub in any titan owning alliance) carrier with mining drones in a belt... you might want to stay away. Have 50 rrbs at ur titan. Have cyno,sb,2 rr,triage on the carrier. Epic trap of lulz.
Doing a plex or something in lowsec in a carrier... ya um dead carrier in 4..3...2... ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:58:00 -
[10]
Yeah that was about what I was thinking too, having it sitting right at a station and assign the drones to an alt or something.
I just want to clarify that I don't even own a carrier (yet at least ) But if I did I would park it at a station, assigning fighters to my alt in a drake and then go ratting.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:11:00 -
[11]
A single BC fitted with a web, a point and a cyno can kill you.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:11:00 -
[12]
very very dangerous.
although adding fighters for lowsec ratting just seems unnecessary. exploration/missions would make sense somewhat. although dunno how well they would hit stuff.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:11:00 -
[13]
The thing you are not getting, is that there is no logical reason for ANY carrier to be ratting in any way. Low sec, 0.0, it doesn't matter.
A carrier should NOT be used to rat in. A carrier should NOT be used to mine in.
If you want to do lvl 5's, get a command ship and a logistic ship.
If you want to rat, use a BC/BS. Ravens are nice becuase you can be aligned to your ss and still be able to kill the rats.
Carriers are used in capital combat, and for ship movements. NOT For ratting/mining/mission running.
It's that simple.
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Doddy
The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:23:00 -
[14]
No, its not safe and you will die then be laughed at. Anyone can lock you down till enough help arrives to kill you and pretty much anyone will for a cap kill. There is no reason to use a carrier for npcing ever, its not worth the risks even in -1.0 cyno-jammed systems never mind in lo sec where any old munchkin can and will gank you.
Carriers may look tough but they aren't. A few neuts will break their tank, ecm/damps will stop them killing anyone. An inty with a faction disruptor can point one from outside neut range and neuts are the only way you will get away from a hic before its freinds come get you (or it opens a cyno). Why risk your billion isk ship/fittings when you could use a bs and probably be more effective. Or risk the same isk and use a marauder which is better.
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lollermango
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:27:00 -
[15]
Dont listen! Carriers are safe in low sec. Tbh, how often have you heard of a carrier dying in low sec. Never! AMIRITE
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Doddy
The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:28:00 -
[16]
You do realise that fighters absolutely fail at killing sub-bs sized rats (which most lo sec belts are populated by) and you would be much quicker using a bs or even a bc? Even assigning fighters to a web/painter huginn fails in killing cruiser rats. they die, but not quick. Carrier in a belt can use med drones ofc which melt bc rats, but they can't be assigned.
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Mahkla
Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:40:00 -
[17]
If I found you ratting in low-sec, I'd have my corp mates there within minutes to take you down.
A carrier kill is more than worth the sec hit.
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DTson Gauur
Caldari Underground-Operators
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daedalus II *snip walloftext* So, is my assessment correct, or am I placing too much confidence in the power of carriers? They look powerful on paper, but is it true in game?
it WILL DIE, maybe not the first time you're spotted but the second time it's a 100% certainty.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:45:00 -
[19]
Welcome to EVE, where bigger isn't better. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/10/2009 16:51:36 It goes like this: T: oh, look, a BC, what could possibly happen to me. T+2: hm, he's firing on me, let's lock him and fire back T+10: you aggro T+10.5: cyno lights up T+12: a dozen dreads jump in as you recall drones, turn on your tank and shut off all offensive modules trying to deaggro/dock T+50-60: you explode
If you're not station hugging, then it's even worse; a not very large roaming gang will have little problems killing you, not to mention that people will traverse 20 jumps in their RRBS which will absolutely kill you just to get on a carrier killmail.
A carrier in low-sec, solo, is only really useful as a hauler. You could run L5s in it, though - in some of the quieter places of low-sec.
Also, don't be afraid to warp to cynos on station; you typically get a free cyno generator. I always do this
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia Welcome to EVE, where bigger isn't better.
Well technically, if you had 10 people in frigates opposed to 10 people in carriers, the bigger WOULD be better. Of course that's not considering that the carriers are 10000 times more expensive
If I put it this way: If you have a limited amount of friends, but they are filthy rich you do present a more powerful force on the battlefield in carriers than in any sub-capital ship for the given number of pilots.
Be that as it may, I assume using a carrier as protection for a mining party would be more like using it for un-protection as it would draw every pirate in the vicinity towards it
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/10/2009 16:51:36 It goes like this: T: oh, look, a BC, what could possibly happen to me. T+2: hm, he's firing on me, let's lock him and fire back T+10: you aggro T+10.5: cyno lights up T+12: a dozen dreads jump in as you recall drones, turn on your tank and shut off all offensive modules trying to deaggro/dock T+50-60: you explode
If you're not station hugging, then it's even worse; a not very large roaming gang will have little problems killing you, not to mention that people will traverse 20 jumps in their RRBS which will absolutely kill you just to get on a carrier killmail.
A carrier in low-sec, solo, is only really useful as a hauler. You could run L5s in it, though - in some of the quieter places of low-sec.
Also, don't be afraid to warp to cynos on station; you typically get a free cyno generator. I always do this
It's a little tragic that 0.0 people are so bored and overpowered that they can throw away 10 dreads just to kill a single low sec carrier that proves no threat what so ever to them One would think they should use their time to something more constructive... I guess this will change somewhat in Dominion, but that's for another thread to speculate in.
Also, why do you reckon it's ok to run L5s in a carrier? Seems risky to me, you are under constant heavy attack from npcs and probably scrambled by them, a sitting duck essentially.
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lollermango
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: lollermango on 13/10/2009 17:06:23 Check the movie Not Us Shoot It 2, for low sec carrier usage and gankage.
There is a scene where a carrier is with a mining party in lowsec, and how it escalates into a drop of another bunch of carriers to kill the tackling rr bs gang, again being counter dropped by 20 odd capitals.
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:05:00 -
[24]
Oveur once called Titans "A big ****." While you are talking about a carrier the fact remains, the only reason to rat with one in losec is to show off your "big ****." However the smartest thing to do with said **** is to keep it in your pants until you're ****ing someone. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Doddy
The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:05:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Doddy on 13/10/2009 17:05:51
Originally by: Daedalus II It's a little tragic that 0.0 people are so bored and overpowered that they can throw away 10 dreads just to kill a single low sec carrier that proves no threat what so ever to them One would think they should use their time to something more constructive... I guess this will change somewhat in Dominion, but that's for another thread to speculate in.
What makes you think they are "0.0 people" and in what way are they "thrown away"?
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Ubik Null
Minmatar The Ore House
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:13:00 -
[26]
You'll be perfectly safe until you're spotted. Once you're spotted, you'll die.
I think you have a misconception of what a Carrier is. A Carrier is a support ship that requires massive support.
It wouldn't be a "roaming battleship gang", it would be a gang called in specifically to exterminate the Carrier.
"Hey guys, there's some joker in a Carrier next door". "Great, X up and we'll kill it".
End of story.
For every pilot who runs from a Cyno there'll be one that flies towards it.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:34:00 -
[27]
Name it 'Bait' and life expectancy will go up about a minute.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Danger Boy
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:50:00 -
[28]
But if you do take it into a belt make sure you triage it since the tanking is so much better that way.
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Taedrin
Gallente White Horizon
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cors A carrier should NOT be used to mine in. ...
Carriers are used in capital combat, and for ship movements. NOT For ratting/mining/mission running.
It's that simple.
Chribba would disagree with you. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |
Captain Vampire
Caldari None of us are free
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:52:00 -
[30]
Tell me where this system is, and I'll suggest a plan to protect your carrier.
Tbh, it will just be a matter of time before someone out there figures out you're in a carrier, and that your corp will not be able to back it up properly. You'll probably never notice a thing until it is too late. And anyway, why would you rat in a carrier? It is only marginally better than a battleship.
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