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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 09:59:00 -
[1]
A useful reference for anyone who wants to take advantage of this increasingly profitable stream of income. It really couldn't be easier:- Buy ships that are for sale below the listed prices.
- Purchase platinum insurance.
- Undock, self-destruct, and collect insurance payout
- ???
- Profit!
If you want to do this on a larger scale:- Buy battleship BPCs off contracts (tier 3 BS recommended)
- Place buy orders for minerals at your build location (you might have to haul some high ends)
- Build your own ships and proceed as above.
Chances are you'll be able to make a reasonable margin this way near any of the major trade hubs, as mineral prices are very low right now.
If you don't mind taking a minor sec status / standings hit, you can jam/shoot a station after undocking to trigger the nearby sentries. This speeds things up considerably, especially if you have several ships saved up in advance and undock in each of them while still flagged for the original offence.
Finally, if you have an alt handy, don't forget to salvage all those tasty battleship wrecks. This boosts your income by a few million isk per ship.
Tier 3 Battleships:
Abaddon: 126.0m
Rokh: 115.5m
Hyperion: 123.2m
Maelstrom: 101.5m
Tier 2 Battleships:
Apocalypse: 78.75m
Raven: 76.125m
Megathron: 73.5m
Tempest: 72.625
Tier 1 Battleships:
Armageddon: 46.375m
Scorpion: 49.875m
Dominix: 43.75m
Typhoon: 52.5m
Insurance fraud can also be profitable with smaller ships, but they take just as long to self-destruct as larger ones, and you generally make less each time.
The list above was generated by taking the baseprice for each ship and multiplying by 0.7 (platinum insurance costs 30% of baseprice and pays out 100%). These values are static - unless CCP changes the way insurance works, they will remain valid indefinitely. If you can reliably get all the salvage, you can still make a profit even when prices are slightly above these levels.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:39:00 -
[2]
if you also have a salvage to hand - you can salvage the wreak also
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3 Titans Lottery
EB | Capital |
Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:43:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: RaTTuS
if you also have a salvage to hand - you can salvage the wreak also
Get out of the classroom.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing  , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
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Raser Moonstrider
Imperial Syndicate Forces
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
not below build cost....below payout...
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
You have no idea how often people will sell them for lower than that.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
The numbers I have listed are not the raw insurance payouts. They are the totals left over after buying the insurance, and right now there are dozens of battleships for sale below these prices. Build costs are actually even lower than that, depending on where you get your minerals / BPCs.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 10:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
Sheesh e.g.
Buy Arma @ 45.572Mil
Insure plat cost 19.975Mil
total is 65.547Mil
payout is 66.250Mil
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3 Titans Lottery
EB | Capital |
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: bitters much on 14/10/2009 11:02:05
Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
lots of rubbish
Because the insurance itself costs nothing , Good luck finding a BS 32mil ( platinum insurance ) below build cost
Sheesh e.g.
Buy Arma @ 45.572Mil
Insure plat cost 19.975Mil
total is 65.547Mil
payout is 66.250Mil
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit 
PS: Sorry didnt saw that you live in Providence, sure thats more then the average BS rats down there 
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: bitters much
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit
profit is profit
and you can market pvp at the same time.
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3 Titans Lottery
EB | Capital |
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Sex'Kitten
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:03:00 -
[11]
Just posting to inform you that Kazuo runs a mineral compression business. He buys minerals off the market, builds ammo/modules and sells those items to customers on a cost-plus basis.
What I'm getting at here is that Kazuo has a lot to gain if mineral prices rise, just sayin'.
Also, hauling the minerals to build large numbers of battleships is boring as ****, you should try it if you don't believe me.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 14/10/2009 11:05:16
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: RaTTuS
...
Sheesh e.g.
Buy Arma @ 45.572Mil
Insure plat cost 19.975Mil
total is 65.547Mil
payout is 66.250Mil
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit
700k per 3min equals to 14mil per hour. now, if only you can get 20 cheap geddons at same station... not bad for high-sec.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: bitters much
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit
profit is profit
and you can market pvp at the same time.
No, cos you have to undock for atleast 2min to SD, I make more with market PVP in 2min then 700k if I¦m active in station.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sex'Kitten
Just posting to inform you that Kazuo runs a mineral compression business. He buys minerals off the market, builds ammo/modules and sells those items to customers on a cost-plus basis.
What I'm getting at here is that Kazuo has a lot to gain if mineral prices rise, just sayin'.
Rising mineral prices are not necessarily in my interest, as this usually means that fewer people can afford supercaps, reducing demand.
Quote:
Also, hauling the minerals to build large numbers of battleships is boring as ****, you should try it if you don't believe me.
Ever thought of using compression? I've done plenty of '50 BS in a JF' jobs at reasonable prices.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 12:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 14/10/2009 11:05:16
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: RaTTuS
...
Sheesh e.g.
Buy Arma @ 45.572Mil
Insure plat cost 19.975Mil
total is 65.547Mil
payout is 66.250Mil
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit
700k per 3min equals to 14mil per hour. now, if only you can get 20 cheap geddons at same station... not bad for high-sec.
Everyone with half a brain and the ISK to buy 20 BSs would know better ways to make more than 14mil/hour.
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Sex'Kitten
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Posted - 2009.10.14 12:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Quote:
Also, hauling the minerals to build large numbers of battleships is boring as ****, you should try it if you don't believe me.
Ever thought of using compression? I've done plenty of '50 BS in a JF' jobs at reasonable prices.
That's a really good idea. I could use about 10b units of isogen delivered to delve, can you help?
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Luke S
Mad Bombers
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:29:00 -
[17]
Heh, I was thinking about doing this, But I was to lazy to figure out the math. Looks like I should revisit that idea.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sex'Kitten
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Quote:
Also, hauling the minerals to build large numbers of battleships is boring as ****, you should try it if you don't believe me.
Ever thought of using compression? I've done plenty of '50 BS in a JF' jobs at reasonable prices.
That's a really good idea. I could use about 10b units of isogen delivered to delve, can you help?
Not all in one go, but yes, I could help if you broke it down a bit.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: bitters much
Everyone with half a brain and the ISK to buy 20 BSs would know better ways to make more than 14mil/hour.
yes but any one with enough isk to get 1 ship + insurance can then make profit [if they have the BS skill]
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3 Titans Lottery
EB | Capital |
Doddy
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:02:00 -
[20]
Surely its way more profitable to buy the below cost ships and then sell them for above cost. Or buy them, reprocess them and sell the minerals. Why bring insurance into it at all? This is really stupid.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Doddy
Surely its way more profitable to buy the below cost ships and then sell them for above cost. Or buy them, reprocess them and sell the minerals. Why bring insurance into it at all? This is really stupid.
The limiting factor for a lot of people is their available capital; reselling ships 1 or 2 at a time is generally much slower than self-destructing them. Also, as mineral prices are so low, other sellers will just undercut.
As for reprocessing, look at mineral prices and then tell me that it's better than insurance fraud.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:55:00 -
[22]
In Before CCP Declares Insurance fraud an Exploit and slams the nerfbat down hard on base prices/insurance payouts
á
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.10.14 16:52:00 -
[23]
It'll sort itself out. As more people go for insurance fraud the price of the ships will rise (Econ 101 Supply vs. Demand). When the price rises it will not be profitable to do the insurance fraud.
Likely, if ships can be considered a commodity (which for T1 is pretty close to reality) the insurance simply sets a floor on the price. Prices will probably equalize right around the break-even for insurance fraud with minor blips above and below it.
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Steve Celeste
Caldari
Overdogs
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:15:00 -
[24]
I blew up about 30 abaddons near jita last week, its pretty boring...
Profit was nice though.
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Capt Fossil
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:25:00 -
[25]
No wonder it's so easy to make isk in this game.........
This is the best idea that some of you can come up with to earn isk?
I think I just made about 20 BS worth while reading this thread and typing a reply. BTW, I am small time at what I do also.
So YES! This is a great idea! Everybody do it.
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Caztra Tor
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:54:00 -
[26]
No disrespect intended, but it sounds only slightly more boring than mining. Still, fraud/deceit/lying are as much a part of Eve as is killing.
Caztra Tor
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:04:00 -
[27]
Heh, me and a few others have figured out a way to make about 500mil to a bil an hour in low sec. We expect it to get the nuclear powered nerfbat soonish but atm its going strong. And no silly exploits are being used as its all well within the game mechanics. 
Quote:
[03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA
[03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:07:00 -
[28]
This is the "hard floor" price on ships that the "my minerals are free" crowd overlook. Just buy anything under hard floor pricing and use insurance, refining, or resale. It's like having hundreds of people donate build slots to you for a % of the profit.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zeba
Heh, me and a few others have figured out a way to make about 500mil to a bil an hour in low sec. We expect it to get the nuclear powered nerfbat soonish but atm its going strong. And no silly exploits are being used as its all well within the game mechanics.
 And people say Highsec is bad.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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NeoNeTiC
LOCKDOWN.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zeba
Heh, me and a few others have figured out a way to make about 500mil to a bil an hour in low sec. We expect it to get the nuclear powered nerfbat soonish but atm its going strong. And no silly exploits are being used as its all well within the game mechanics.
Does it involve the stuff mentioned in the OP + killing the ship with an alt in a militia to get the LP + salvaging? :o
Because that's how I'd do it (given CCP does not nerf it). ^_^
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Zeba
Heh, me and a few others have figured out a way to make about 500mil to a bil an hour in low sec. We expect it to get the nuclear powered nerfbat soonish but atm its going strong. And no silly exploits are being used as its all well within the game mechanics.
And people say Highsec is bad.
Thats why I always chuckle at the high sec level mission 4 whingers and the other ones who say low sec is worthless.
They have no idea. No idea at all. 
Quote:
[03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA
[03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.14 20:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
These values are static - unless CCP changes the way insurance works, they will remain valid indefinitely.
Actually I believe based on what is on Sisi that insurance is going dynamic in Dominion.
So this little trick won't work come 01 Dec
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.14 21:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
These values are static - unless CCP changes the way insurance works, they will remain valid indefinitely.
Actually I believe based on what is on Sisi that insurance is going dynamic in Dominion.
So this little trick won't work come 01 Dec
Example please? I heard about changes to T2 insurance that were briefly in effect on the test server, but I thought they were rolled back.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Zeba
Heh, me and a few others have figured out a way to make about 500mil to a bil an hour in low sec. We expect it to get the nuclear powered nerfbat soonish but atm its going strong. And no silly exploits are being used as its all well within the game mechanics.
And people say Highsec is bad.
Thats why I always chuckle at the high sec level mission 4 whingers and the other ones who say low sec is worthless.
They have no idea. No idea at all.
lowsec is worthless boost it!!!! zeba lies
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
lowsec is worthless boost it!!!! zeba lies
Curses! Foiled again.. 
*twirls mustache and skulks off to hatch moar ebil disinformation plots*
Quote:
[03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA
[03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.14 23:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: bitters much
You will win EVE with this massiv win in no time, 700k profit
PS: Sorry didnt saw that you live in Providence, sure thats more then the average BS rats down there
providence is a bit busy at the moment
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Syuveil
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Posted - 2009.10.16 08:23:00 -
[37]
self destructing is serious bussiness...
yesterday i bought 20+ apocs for 70M each, 8,75M profit on each, about 200M total, plus another about 40M in salvage i have yet to sell... this is way better than mining veldspar
here is a table of all marketable t1 ships, their insurance and how much you need to buy them for to make profit (including caps just for the sake of completeness, of course i dont expect you to go and start blowing up your dreads...)
ship insurance table
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thebarry
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:45:00 -
[38]
Just had to post and say that kazuo did you ****ers an enormous favor telling you about this: there is LOT of isk to be made in fraud. It's nice to see half of you morons trash the idea and talk **** to him. I hope he learns his lesson and never divulges our isk printers here again.
DIAF
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Br0ke
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.16 13:29:00 -
[39]
If you want to skip the self-d timer just shoot concord once. Every time you undock a new ship they will instantly kill it.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.18 22:14:00 -
[40]
A couple of days ago, if you used a ME:20 Raven blueprint (and there's plenty of those or higher), a Raven would cost you 72 mil with materials bought with buy orders, or 74.2 mil with materials purchased directly from sell orders.
The Jita BUY ORDER price for Ravens was near 74 mil, but none were actually traded at that price, and the SELL ORDER price of Ravens hovered around 76.1+ mil ISK.
At those prices, with a PE:1 blueprint (yes, just 1), you make a bit over 22 mil ISK a day per slot selling with sell orders after you bought the materials with buy orders, and you STILL make a bit over 8 mil ISK per day per slot if you bought the materials directly but are using sell orders to sell the product.
Multiply that by 10 lines and 30 days, and you have 6.6 bil a month for the buy order minerals or 2.4 bil a month with minerals bought directly from the existing sell orders.
At the same time, a Raven's Platinum insurance cost is 32.625 mil ISK, giving you back 108.75 mil upon destruction, for a net gain of 76.125 mil ISK... so, THEORETICALLY, as soon as the price of a Raven goes below 76.125 mil ISK, cashing in on "insurance scams" becomes profitable (actually, it becomes profitable a bit earlier due to salvage).
Buying or manufacturing a Raven, assembling, boarding, launching and self-destructing it then re-docking to repeat the process takes at least 3 minutes (usually a bit more), so you can at best do that with 20 ships per hour, usually 15 ships or less (and it's boring).
Alternatively, you can shoot the station, the sentry guns take a while longer to kill you, but certainly less than the 2:30 needed for the undock/selfdestruct combo.
You can lower that to AROUND ONE MINUTE if you just SHOOT SOMETHING to make CONCORD appear, they make short work of your ship (and you still get the insurance cash), but it costs you a bit of sec-status on each run start, and it's a good idea to have all ships assembled and insured beforehand.
Having an additional friendly present at the self-destruct point to do some salvaging increases the income level by about 300k ISK per destroyed ship (probably more, probably less, depends a bit on luck too, but 300k is a good enough average for a Raven - other racial ships have better salvage averages due to higher prices for Armor Plates and Melted Capacitor Consoles).
The entry barriers to this "job" of "insurance scammer" are quite low... you just need L3 salvaging on one account and the ability to fly the ship in question on other accounts. Your income level is roughly 15x to 20x 300k+(76.125 mil - Raven sales price) per ship-suicider account per hour (or even up to x60 if you streamline it with CONCORD intervention), which would have to be split with the one salvaging account.
You can notice how even if the average market price is the at the breakeven point of insurance, you can still make a (rather low) profit from the salvaging of the wrecks - it just takes a while.
So if you are a MANUFACTURER and you see sales prices for your ship going down noticeably below "insurance scam" level, instead of bothering to fight pricewars selling the ship for less and less, you could simply start blowing them up and salvaging their wrecks yourself... and keep going on with the manufacture 
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We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.18 22:33:00 -
[41]
Is the profit per hour better if you arrange it so that you're in a militia and arrange for someone else to shoot you, scoring LP, I wonder?
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.18 22:37:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2009 22:38:11
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Is the profit per hour better if you arrange it so that you're in a militia and arrange for someone else to shoot you, scoring LP, I wonder?
The base LP kill value of a battleship is 500 (so, around 1 mil ISK or so per ship destroyed, maybe 2 mil ISK tops under ideal circumstances), and prices of ships in areas where this would be feasable to do usually exceed hub prices noticeably (not to speak of increased risks while doing this), so it's unlikely the FW alternative would be a feasable one...
...but you never know
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We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.18 22:43:00 -
[43]
SHHHHA t1 manufacturing isn't profitable akita, we must perpetuate the lies!
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Eliza Farcaster
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.10.18 22:53:00 -
[44]
Surely suicide ganking with these ships would make you more úúú
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.10.18 23:13:00 -
[45]
True, but it would be much slower and less easily repeatable due to loss of sec status. That's not to say you wouldn't find any worthwhile targets, of course.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
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