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abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.10.17 16:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 17/10/2009 16:08:42 They need 125 bandwith... You cannot sustain their tank anymore with cap boosters for very long, and neuts completely destroy them. They need an entire rack of heavy drones, not 4, not 3 and like 2 lights or something, they need 5 heavy drones. The whole idea of mixing drones is stupid, as you end up having a set of drones that are bad at every situation rather than having 5 lights for frigates and 5 heavies for battlecruisers on up (of course you could try to use them on cruisers but with the web nerf coupled with the myrmidon's crap speed they can easily get away from them). Gallente is supposed to be the close range, damage dealing, drone dps race, yet the current myrmidon is more of a jack of all trades and master of none.
I would like to see a myrmidon that has a hybrid gun damage bonus, the current drone bonus, 6 highs, 4 mids, and 6 lows, with 125 bandwith and 150 dronebay. This would still give the ishtar the advantage in drone versatility but would allow the myrmidon to outdamage the ishtar once again. The 4 midslots would allow you to fit enough tackle to use the ship effectively, while preventing the myrmidon from shield tanking well. This new myrmidon would either be a strong damage dealer, with less tank and more focus on damage mods and larger guns, or it would be armored and produce less damage. For whatever reason, gallente is no longer known as the damage dealer race, despite damage being its intended role. Gallente are the second slowest race, with the worst range, yet many ships lose in damage and range or have a negligible advantage in damage while sacrificing their range for the modest increase. It is time to fix the myrmidon, and give reason to use it over a harbinger, hurricane or drake.
The eos could also use this drone boost, as it is undoubtedly the worst command ship of its class, giving bonuses only to electronic warfare. This could be significant in all recon gangs, but the eos cannot keep up with these kinds of gangs, and even if it could it does not have a cloaking ability or the ability to use covert jump bridges, so it is just impractical to bring an eos currently. If the eos was given its 5 heavy drones back, it could then provide some damage for these recon gangs while granting them bonuses, giving it a reason for existing.
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.17 16:44:00 -
[2]
Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps).
125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS.
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abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps).
125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS.
the laser myrm isn't all that special; people only use it because the current myrm is terrible with a 2 year old repair bonus that was useful when nos wasn't horrible and a heavy drones which worked before webs and drones were nerfed with the nano nerf
why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith? being restricted to 4 heavy drones is bad enough, but being outdamaged by an ishtar is just a joke
incomplete and mixed sets of drones are stupid
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:28:00 -
[4]
myrm: needs 125m and 4 turrets or 100m and 6 turrets. keep the mids the same.
eos needs either 125m bandwidth (note: still no damage bonus!) or 7 guns. i'd rather the bandwidth really. also, it needs a better drone bay bonus (35m3/level?)
i also agree the mixed drones are stupid.
on top of all that, drones need their missing HP. a flat 33% buff for kali HP changes and 20%/level of drone interfacing (10 drones -> 5 drones with 10 drones damage still only has 5 drones hp).
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abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ZigZag Joe myrm: needs 125m and 4 turrets or 100m and 6 turrets. keep the mids the same.
eos needs either 125m bandwidth (note: still no damage bonus!) or 7 guns. i'd rather the bandwidth really. also, it needs a better drone bay bonus (35m3/level?)
i also agree the mixed drones are stupid.
on top of all that, drones need their missing HP. a flat 33% buff for kali HP changes and 20%/level of drone interfacing (10 drones -> 5 drones with 10 drones damage still only has 5 drones hp).
i would rather have drones than 6 turrets, but if the turret hardpoints are reduced i would want more dronebay to compensate
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Araq Lacrimosa
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.17 19:59:00 -
[6]
Maybe I'm going senile, but wasn't bandwidth introduced to nerf the myrm from fielding 5 heavies? a thing reserved for the Ishtar, domi and larger?
Okay, i'm no expert, but...
As it is, I think the Myrm/Eos/Navy Vex trinity has to be reviewed...
Eos-725 dps/1510 alpha Myrmidon-810 dps/1450 alpha Navy Vexor-896 dps/1510 alpha
All ships had 4 Magstabs in the lows, fitted with as many neutron blaster 2's loaded with void M as they could fit. The Myrm and Eos both with 2 ogre2, 2 HH2, and a hob2. Navy Vex had 4 ogre2's.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2009.10.17 20:39:00 -
[7]
In PVE, of the trio Vex, Myrm and Domi, only the Myrm can actually make use of guns in a respectable fashion. The Myrm and the Domi both come with very impressive active tanks but the Myrm often over shadows the Domi in effective DPS.
In PVP, the Myrm still has a very good active tank. If you lack the skills to Shield tank, the Myrm's active tank can still allows you to hold against small numbers of foes, in the absence of neuts.
Now being totally crippled by neuts can be seen as a bad thing except... A Myrm only looses 50% DPS when ECM jammed, 25% DPS when Tracking Disrupted and as a brawler loosing nothing to sensor dampening.
Heavy Drones aren't really all that anymore, very Anti-Battleship specific and being tied down to Sentries would kind of kneecap the mobility advantage of The Myrm.
And lastly, I thought Myrmidons worked best with autocannons, with the 0 cap use and greater DPS stuff.
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abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.10.17 20:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kanatta Jing In PVE, of the trio Vex, Myrm and Domi, only the Myrm can actually make use of guns in a respectable fashion. The Myrm and the Domi both come with very impressive active tanks but the Myrm often over shadows the Domi in effective DPS.
In PVP, the Myrm still has a very good active tank. If you lack the skills to Shield tank, the Myrm's active tank can still allows you to hold against small numbers of foes, in the absence of neuts.
Now being totally crippled by neuts can be seen as a bad thing except... A Myrm only looses 50% DPS when ECM jammed, 25% DPS when Tracking Disrupted and as a brawler loosing nothing to sensor dampening.
Heavy Drones aren't really all that anymore, very Anti-Battleship specific and being tied down to Sentries would kind of kneecap the mobility advantage of The Myrm.
And lastly, I thought Myrmidons worked best with autocannons, with the 0 cap use and greater DPS stuff.
The dominix does more damage in pve when it is fit with rails (like it should be...) The myrm's tank is not impressive because you can't sustain it. The cargo hold sucks and you can no longer rely on nos to run your modules. You state the myrmidon only loses 50% of its damage when jammed, but what does it matter when you can neither control your drones nor tackle anything? The myrmidon was only fit with autocannons by some people because it has no turret bonus either way, so some just fit autocannons to conserve cap and have extra powergrid, but autocannons, especially unbonused ones, do not out damage blasters.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:16:00 -
[9]
so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough? (it even runs 4 rails with low cap usage ammo)
weird ideas you have there.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:40:00 -
[10]
Just add 15 Mbit/s drones, Light Sentries and Light Combat. Then ships can finally use their 75 Mbit/s bandwidths without splitting drone sizes. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Abrazzar Just add 15 Mbit/s drones, Light Sentries and Light Combat. Then ships can finally use their 75 Mbit/s bandwidths without splitting drone sizes.
This would accomplish nothing really except make it so you don't have to deal with mixed drones gheiness. The myrm and eos would still be subpar.
@abrasive soap: agreed, myrm with 125m bandwidth is more important than the guns.
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Dansel
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:19:00 -
[12]
Yeh, the myrmidon should get more dronebandiwdth, and a slightly larger dronebay. It was better before all the changes to diffrent mechanics, but it just doesnt really cut it anymore. Some goes for the Eos, atleast to some extent -----------------
Yay!! |
DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:33:00 -
[13]
Yep, the Myrm deffo needs 125mb drone bandwidth. What the hell am I supposed to do wit 3 heavies?!
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.17 23:19:00 -
[14]
Instead of messing with the dronebay (which can bite you in the rear several ways), why not increase the bonus slightly? Say, from 10 to 12.5% per level? That would give a myrmidon the equivalent of 4.875 heavy drones in damage but with less total HP for the drones compared to a domi or ishtar. (1.625 * 3 = 4.875 vs. 1.5*5 = 7.5). In return, it would make the myrmidon a bit better than the domi or ishtar versus small targets (slightly better bonus for its light and medium drones)
169 dead caps caught on video |
abrasive soap
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.10.18 05:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sokratesz Instead of messing with the dronebay (which can bite you in the rear several ways), why not increase the bonus slightly? Say, from 10 to 12.5% per level? That would give a myrmidon the equivalent of 4.875 heavy drones in damage but with less total HP for the drones compared to a domi or ishtar. (1.625 * 3 = 4.875 vs. 1.5*5 = 7.5). In return, it would make the myrmidon a bit better than the domi or ishtar versus small targets (slightly better bonus for its light and medium drones)
Incomplete sets of drones are just annoying. If you do that you might as well reduce the bandwith to 50 because no one uses mixed sets (and if they do they never do the damage eft says they do) and it is just impractical to carry heavy or sentry drones when you can only use 3. Right now there is basically no reason to use a myrmidon over any of the other tier 2 bcs. Dancing around 75 bandwith is a waste of time, just give it a full set of heavies so it can fulfill a role other than being mediocre at everything and good at nothing.
Originally by: darius mclever so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough? (it even runs 4 rails with low cap usage ammo)
weird ideas you have there.
0/10
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Verlokiraptor
Raptor Detection Agency
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Posted - 2009.10.18 05:55:00 -
[16]
Out of all battlecruisers, the myrm has the smallest damage increase over the comparable cruiser: vexor = 75MB + 5 effective turrets, myrm = 75MB + 6 effective turrets. I like the idea of 4 turrets and 125MB myself, and wouldn't complain about a larger drone bay. Something I would also find hilarious is replacing the rep bonus with 5% gun damage but that's not something I seriously want.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.18 08:21:00 -
[17]
Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage, so maybe 100 bandwidth as alternative, or giving up the gun bonus for a 4th and or 5th drone?
169 dead caps caught on video |
Zeredek
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Posted - 2009.10.18 08:52:00 -
[18]
I got depressed when i saw the bandwidth on the Eos, i mean come on! It's a Tech 2 Battlecruiser!
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.18 09:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Miriiah on 18/10/2009 09:13:26 Edited by: Miriiah on 18/10/2009 09:09:52
Originally by: Sokratesz Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage, so maybe 100 bandwidth as alternative, or giving up the gun bonus for a 4th and or 5th drone?
When you just roflNoSed(this was the overpowered part) with heavies, yeah. 4 turrets 125m3 bandwidth and 250m3 drone bay. when Myrm was released I was very happy to actually have a drone BC, yeah it was sorta overpowered, but now with NoS being nerfed so badly and going down to 4 turrets(4 unbonused turrets isn't all that amazing) it would balance it out with being able to field 5 heavies
AT VERY LEAST give it a try on the test server now that you're finally looking at fixing the other ships aswell,
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zeredek I got depressed when i saw the bandwidth on the Eos, i mean come on! It's a Tech 2 Battlecruiser!
Well to be fair, none of the Fleet Command ships can really do any damage, so Eos is kinda "fine" in that way atleast
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.18 11:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: abrasive soap the laser myrm isn't all that special
Yes it is, recall that I didn't say it was special because it's particularly awesome, just that it is one of the few ship setups that is still different and surprising.
Originally by: abrasive soap why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith?
Maybe because I estimate there is at least a remote chance of getting it, whereas I estimate your chance of getting 125mbit to be zero, since that's what it had before it was nerfed.
Originally by: darius mclever so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough?
Realistic PvP setup proof required.
Originally by: Verlokiraptor vexor = 75MB + 5 effective turrets, myrm = 75MB + 6 effective turrets
What's more a Myrm doesn't really even have 6 effective turrets since undocking without a neut these days is pretty risky and the Vexor has a utility high slot whereas the Myrm doesn't. Which means the Myrm either does no more damage than a Vexor at all, or it flies without a neut.
Originally by: Sokratesz Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage
Wft! Since when was a BC doing more dps than a cruiser (T2 or otherwise) overpowered?
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Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.10.18 13:05:00 -
[22]
2nd try, eh?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185488
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.18 13:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: "Neutrino Sunset" Maybe because I estimate there is at least a remote chance of getting it, whereas I estimate your chance of getting 125mbit to be zero, since that's what it had before it was nerfed.
Yes, it had it before and it was overpowered considering the nos back then. Now that the nos are pretty much useless, 125mb bandwidth is what the Myrm needs (with 4 turrets).
The Eos is just a shiny and expensive shuttle. It's broken on so many levels that I don't know where to start.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:16:00 -
[24]
Let me get this straight, you want ships to be overpowered because you find mixing drones to be "annoying" and "stupid" and because it's repair bonus is of marginal use as gang sizes has increased?
Eos is a Fleet Command. It is utility not direct combat, you don't see Vultures, Damnations and Claymores running around as solo pwn-boats either. And what fleet doesn't benefit from boosting its eWar platforms and resistance to jamming? It is more limited but hardly useless.
Myrmidon is the tanking BC, if you want upfront damage use the proper ship. Myrm still does insane damage when fitted for it and has a slot layout that makes every other BC green with envy.
What you should have done was join the growing population lobbying for a return to local repair instead of the lame buffer/RR and Gallente boats will jump to the front again. Or suggested changes to the bonus on Fleet Commands as links are practically interchangeable with very little lost leaving no real reason to use the racials.
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Suboran
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Let me get this straight, you want ships to be overpowered because you find mixing drones to be "annoying" and "stupid" and because it's repair bonus is of marginal use as gang sizes has increased?
Eos is a Fleet Command. It is utility not direct combat, you don't see Vultures, Damnations and Claymores running around as solo pwn-boats either. And what fleet doesn't benefit from boosting its eWar platforms and resistance to jamming? It is more limited but hardly useless.
Myrmidon is the tanking BC, if you want upfront damage use the proper ship. Myrm still does insane damage when fitted for it and has a slot layout that makes every other BC green with envy.
What you should have done was join the growing population lobbying for a return to local repair instead of the lame buffer/RR and Gallente boats will jump to the front again. Or suggested changes to the bonus on Fleet Commands as links are practically interchangeable with very little lost leaving no real reason to use the racials.
These ships where once very useable and very popular however, they were butchered in the drone bandwidth changes, now you only see noobs flying myrmidons. Eos... the only one I have seen in recent times was used for mining bonuses because it was cheap.
These ships absolutly need the 5 heavy drones to be competetive with the other races battlecruisers.
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Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Suboran
These ships where once very useable and very popular however, they were butchered in the drone bandwidth changes, now you only see noobs flying myrmidons. Eos... the only one I have seen in recent times was used for mining bonuses because it was cheap.
These ships absolutly need the 5 heavy drones to be competetive with the other races battlecruisers.
If you need a OP ship to be competitive, only noob here is you.
Myrmidon is fine.
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nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps).
125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS.
the laser myrm isn't all that special; people only use it because the current myrm is terrible with a 2 year old repair bonus that was useful when nos wasn't horrible and a heavy drones which worked before webs and drones were nerfed with the nano nerf
why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith? being restricted to 4 heavy drones is bad enough, but being outdamaged by an ishtar is just a joke
incomplete and mixed sets of drones are stupid
Actually, its not that uncommon that HACs being able to outdamage BCs.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:51:00 -
[28]
5 heavy myrmidon was just crazy compared to other bc's and bs's.
5 heavy ishtar is still crazy compared to other hacs and bc's.
Hurt by neuts much? welcome to active tanking world. Neuts would've needed nerf bat same time with nos. Neuts not only make it very difficult to have good active tanking setups if your ship can't fit cap booster in some sensible way, but also hurt capital ships more than they should.
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Saulc Neslo
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Posted - 2009.10.18 15:04:00 -
[29]
What is the downside to using 1s+2m+2h compared to using 3 heavy drones? To me the 1+2+2 looks far superior.
I havnt been flying the myrm enough to say if it does to little damage.
But looking at the drone bay it seems that it can easily carry:
5 lights for fighting small stuff 5 meds for fighting medium sized stuff 1+2+2 for fighting bs's
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.18 16:50:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
5 heavy ishtar is still crazy compared to other hacs and bc's.
Yeah, that's why you see so many Ishtars compared to Zealots and Vagas
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