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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.27 17:54:00 -
[1]
Here is an idea to make AFs more unique and useful:
Give them a role bonus that prevents 2pt scrams from shutting off their MWDs. That way, they have some unique flavor compared to ceptors, but they are not over powered because the fitting requirements of a MWD and the cap use of a MWD means that they are not OP like the ultra-speed afterburner thought the Devs had.
Maybe HACs should get thus role bonus too? Eh.. let's just talk about AFs.
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George Mccloud
Gallente Domination. THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:03:00 -
[2]
The proposed AF boost to AB speed isn't enough already?
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Cartheron Crust
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:08:00 -
[3]
Or they could just give them the missing bonus that their respective t1 hull has. |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:13:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/10/2009 18:14:19 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/10/2009 18:13:41
Originally by: xxxak Here is an idea to make AFs more unique and useful:
Give them a role bonus that prevents 2pt scrams from shutting off their MWDs. That way, they have some unique flavor compared to ceptors, but they are not over powered because the fitting requirements of a MWD and the cap use of a MWD means that they are not OP like the ultra-speed afterburner thought the Devs had.
Maybe HACs should get thus role bonus too? Eh.. let's just talk about AFs.
I actually like that much much better then the AB idea
I really like that. Not OP because of web and neut, and MWD cap use / sig bloom, but helps them a ton get to their sweetspot. Becomes nice heavy tackle but not invulnerable.
Still need racial 4th bonus (like, more damage).
But very much yes.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Avan Sercedos
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: George Mccloud The proposed AF boost to AB speed isn't enough already?
Because that totally hasn't been scrapped
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:15:00 -
[6]
Or they could fix rockets so the vengence doesnt get more firepower with projectiles and give the retribution a second mid thus fixing amarr AF.
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: George Mccloud The proposed AF boost to AB speed isn't enough already?
The proposed AF boost to AB speed is dead. This is my alternative proposal.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:32:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 27/10/2009 18:32:25
Originally by: George Mccloud The proposed AF boost to AB speed isn't enough already?
Thats been removed for some time now ;)
Edit: thats what I get for replying long after I open thread :P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: baltec1 Or they could fix rockets so the vengence doesnt get more firepower with projectiles and give the retribution a second mid thus fixing amarr AF.
Yeah, roflkets really really need a fix. Currently they're the stupidest weapon system in the game.
I'd also say Retri needs a second mid but Amarr pilots vehemently disagree and say it's fine with one, so I just give up on that.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'd also say Retri needs a second mid but Amarr pilots vehemently disagree and say it's fine with one, so I just give up on that.
We dont need it but we wouldnt mind having it
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'd also say Retri needs a second mid but Amarr pilots vehemently disagree and say it's fine with one, so I just give up on that.
We dont need it but we wouldnt mind having it
But whenever I suggest the Retribution needs a second mid, I get the "but Amarr are gang ships/get a tackler/you can't do everything in a single ship/etc" so I just concluded that Amarr pilots are deathly afraid of medslots, like they're the workings of the devil and sully their gank/tank purity.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Vasira Baerest
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'd also say Retri needs a second mid but Amarr pilots vehemently disagree and say it's fine with one, so I just give up on that.
We dont need it but we wouldnt mind having it
But whenever I suggest the Retribution needs a second mid, I get the "but Amarr are gang ships/get a tackler/you can't do everything in a single ship/etc" so I just concluded that Amarr pilots are deathly afraid of medslots, like they're the workings of the devil and sully their gank/tank purity.
Nah, just not willing to give up a high or low slow to pick up that additional mid.
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Infected69
Amarr Infinite Covenant
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:03:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Infected69 on 27/10/2009 19:03:04
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'd also say Retri needs a second mid but Amarr pilots vehemently disagree and say it's fine with one, so I just give up on that.
We dont need it but we wouldnt mind having it
What? who is we?
1 mid slot is ******ed. fix it.
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:05:00 -
[14]
Jesus F C
Can we get back on topic here. You guys have the worst ADD. Lawl.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:21:00 -
[15]
2pt immunity would make them nanos like the days of old, imo not that good idea.
Id rhater see damage and resistance bonuses for them, i.e. not the same bonus accross the board, but each need to be looked at individually. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:35:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/10/2009 19:39:23
Originally by: Vasira Baerest
Nah, just not willing to give up a high or low slow to pick up that additional mid.
Midslot >> utility high.
If you use the utility high for a nos, you could just consider using a cap booster.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs 2pt immunity would make them nanos like the days of old, imo not that good idea.
Nah, because the sig bloom makes them not too hard to track outside of webrange, and preety OK inside it until they shut MWD off and are up close (which they should generally survive anyway, approach only takes so long with a MWD-ing frig). But then they're at risk from drones and multiple webs.
I like it.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: baltec1 on 27/10/2009 19:45:12
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Midslot >> utility high.
If you use the utility high for a nos, you could just consider using a cap booster.
Then we still wouldnt get the point on it and would just end up with more cap for a short while
No what we need is the following:
[Retribution, I have a dream] Small Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Adaptive Nano Plating II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II
1MN Afterburner II Warp Disruptor II
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Small Nosferatu II
Energy Collision Accelerator I Energy Collision Accelerator I
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Dengen Krastinov
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.10.27 20:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cartheron Crust Or they could just give them the missing bonus that their respective t1 hull has.
^^ This, I'm not sure why people propose more complicated 'fixes' when this would completely solve the issues for most ships.
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Deva Blackfire
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.10.27 20:43:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 27/10/2009 20:43:42 One of the biggest AB bonused AFs flaws was "immunity to scrambler". Doing 1,2-1,5km/s and being immune to scrams is wrong. And now you propose that ship should do 1,5-2,5+ km/s and be immune to scrams? Dream on.
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N00byn00blar
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Posted - 2009.10.27 20:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 27/10/2009 20:43:42 One of the biggest AB bonused AFs flaws was "immunity to scrambler". Doing 1,2-1,5km/s and being immune to scrams is wrong. And now you propose that ship should do 1,5-2,5+ km/s and be immune to scrams? Dream on.
Err an extra slot on my retribution would be nice. I don't care about scram immunity, actually being able to use one would be nice!
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.27 20:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 27/10/2009 20:43:42 One of the biggest AB bonused AFs flaws was "immunity to scrambler". Doing 1,2-1,5km/s and being immune to scrams is wrong. And now you propose that ship should do 1,5-2,5+ km/s and be immune to scrams? Dream on.
The difference is that 1) its hard to perma-run a MWD 2) you have the sig of a cruiser with a MWD on 3) a MWD forces you to make significant fitting compromises
The above are signfiicant trade offs. The AB boost had none of those trade offs.
We played EVE for about 5 years without 2pt scrams killing MWD, and it wasnt a terrible game then.
I think a MWD AF won't break EVE.
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Adacia Calla
Minmatar 1st Steps Academy Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.27 21:06:00 -
[22]
Good thing I just bought 4x Coreli C-Type 1MN MWD for 5mil a piece. Better than T2 in every way.
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Ravenesa
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.10.27 21:08:00 -
[23]
I'm part of the Amarr crowd that kinda likes the Ret the way it is because I fly it in small gangs. Does it suck as a solo AF for PvP? Yes. Does it suck as a missioning boat? Hell no! Does it suck as a ratting ship? Again Hell No! It is a DPS boat, plain and simple. Nothing fancy, just per DPS.
Do rockets need to be fixed? Hell Yes!
Back on topic...
If ceptors aren't immune to the MWD/Scram trick then no way should AF's have that immunity. How about a 50% reduction in heat damage from overloading mods? It allows them to overheat sooner and boost their DPS as well as their initial speed, but doesn't give them a permaboost. The pilot still has to manage what he is doing and for how long.
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.27 21:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ravenesa I'm part of the Amarr crowd that kinda likes the Ret the way it is because I fly it in small gangs. Does it suck as a solo AF for PvP? Yes. Does it suck as a missioning boat? Hell no! Does it suck as a ratting ship? Again Hell No! It is a DPS boat, plain and simple. Nothing fancy, just per DPS.
Do rockets need to be fixed? Hell Yes!
Back on topic...
If ceptors aren't immune to the MWD/Scram trick then no way should AF's have that immunity. How about a 50% reduction in heat damage from overloading mods? It allows them to overheat sooner and boost their DPS as well as their initial speed, but doesn't give them a permaboost. The pilot still has to manage what he is doing and for how long.
Interesting point about ceptors, but I disagree: Ceptors have the advantage of being VERY fast, so fast that they can stay out of web/neut range easily. AFs are not nearly as fast. Thus, my new feature adds flavor to the game.
As it is now, there is almost NO reason to buy and fly an AF. They cost 5 times as much as a T1 cruiser, for roughly equal performance. They are good for nothing more than styles points.
With my suggestion, some people WOULD choose an AF over a ceptor. Thats GOOD for EVE, not bad.
If you want a boost for ceptors, start a new thread :p
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.27 21:30:00 -
[25]
Quote: As it is now, there is almost NO reason to buy and fly an AF. They cost 5 times as much as a T1 cruiser, for roughly equal performance. They are good for nothing more than styles points.
I disagree, they are awesome solo pvp ships.
They survive lowsec gatecamps, are faster and more agile than T1 cruisers and they can kill T1 cruisers or at least disengage most of the time.
... but I have to agree that they need a boost to make worth flying in a broader range of situations.
I like your scram immunity idea, but it is a bit overpowered. Giving them their T1 version bonus doesn't seem to be enough, but it is certainly a very good start.
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Lili Lu
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Posted - 2009.10.27 21:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cartheron Crust Or they could just give them the missing bonus that their respective t1 hull has.
Really this would be the place to start. Maybe after such a correction to AF a one size fits all buff such as proposed by the OP could be considered.
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Ravenesa
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.10.27 22:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: xxxak
Originally by: Ravenesa I'm part of the Amarr crowd that kinda likes the Ret the way it is because I fly it in small gangs. Does it suck as a solo AF for PvP? Yes. Does it suck as a missioning boat? Hell no! Does it suck as a ratting ship? Again Hell No! It is a DPS boat, plain and simple. Nothing fancy, just per DPS.
Do rockets need to be fixed? Hell Yes!
Back on topic...
If ceptors aren't immune to the MWD/Scram trick then no way should AF's have that immunity. How about a 50% reduction in heat damage from overloading mods? It allows them to overheat sooner and boost their DPS as well as their initial speed, but doesn't give them a permaboost. The pilot still has to manage what he is doing and for how long.
Interesting point about ceptors, but I disagree: Ceptors have the advantage of being VERY fast, so fast that they can stay out of web/neut range easily. AFs are not nearly as fast. Thus, my new feature adds flavor to the game.
As it is now, there is almost NO reason to buy and fly an AF. They cost 5 times as much as a T1 cruiser, for roughly equal performance. They are good for nothing more than styles points.
With my suggestion, some people WOULD choose an AF over a ceptor. Thats GOOD for EVE, not bad.
If you want a boost for ceptors, start a new thread :p
Ceptors are fine, I was just using that as a counter point.
I actually do like the overloading idea the more that I think about it. It gives AB AF's a speed over 1k and a bit and boosts DPS/Tanking/Tackling/etc. AF's have a longer lock range then ceptors so an overloaded point would hit out to 28k, extended web range, etc.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.27 23:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/10/2009 19:39:23
Originally by: Vasira Baerest
Nah, just not willing to give up a high or low slow to pick up that additional mid.
Midslot >> utility high.
If you use the utility high for a nos, you could just consider using a cap booster.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs 2pt immunity would make them nanos like the days of old, imo not that good idea.
Nah, because the sig bloom makes them not too hard to track outside of webrange, and preety OK inside it until they shut MWD off and are up close (which they should generally survive anyway, approach only takes so long with a MWD-ing frig). But then they're at risk from drones and multiple webs.
I like it.
4/2/5 retri is nice, but I want a 5/1/5 retri with 5 turrets ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
xVx Scarecrow
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.27 23:40:00 -
[29]
i thinks its a ok idea but it wouldnt it make ceptors usless for general tackel?. why have a ceptor tackel when an af would be tougher and faster when it gets in web/scram range? only the super fast ceptor would be usfull to get there to hold the target till the af gets there to tackel it better. ceptor would prob die in the process loosing to anti/support
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.10.28 00:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 28/10/2009 00:58:49 They all need their fourth bonus, tied to AF skill:
Harpy: +5% shield resistances per level Hawk: +10% explosion velocity per level (+change the damage bonus to match the Kestrel)
Enyo: +10% falloff per level (oops, forgot it already had a tracking bonus) Ishkur: +10% drone optimal/tracking OR maybe speed (both MWD and orbit) per level (I'm loathe to give them the usual HP/damage bonus)
Retribution: +5% RoF per level Vengeance: +10% flight time per level (Vengeance has a bloody odd bonus combination to start with)
Wolf and Jag I've never flown, but some form of agility/sig/speed based bonus maybe?
Also: Fix rockets. A LOT of frigates would become very, very viable indeed with rockets fixed.
With a fourth bonus in place, I'm not sure AF's would NEED a role bonus. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
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