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Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:10:00 -
[1]
I beg your indulgence of my curiousity. Whilst dutifully reacquainting myself with modern science, I came upon a two-year-old report by an Amarrian researcher, one Reverend Doctor Rakban Nadapur, in which he theorized that capsuleers from societies with a more spiritual worldview tended to have fewer incidences of mind-lock, wetgraving, and similar psychological and somatoform disorders.
Out of a research sample of 13,443 cases, Nadapur claims that less than 1% of cases came from Intaki bloodlines and less than 2% of cases came from amongst the Achura. He compares this to an average constituency of 8.4% from each ethnicity and a high of 11.2% from the Brutor.
To be fair and considerate in my studies, I am inclined to seek other research on the topic. If, perchance, you are aware of any other scholarship on the matter, I would be grateful for the enlightenment. It would perhaps help to assuage my curiosity and yield a hypothesis upon a matter of some gravity.
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Vendrin
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:28:00 -
[2]
While I don't have the research on the subject at this time, I recall seeing a study that might explain this. Apparently there is a part of the brain that develops during childhood that allows the child to distinguish the world and there body/individual self, as separate entities. Through studies it has been shown that monks, clergy and others who spend a lot of time in meditation or meditation have developed the facility to suspend activity in that portion of the brain allowing them to lose that sense of separation and gain the feeling of oneness with their surroundings.
Perhaps that ability prepares these individuals for extending there senses to something besides their body and then withdraw back to their body with more ease.
_______________________________
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Graelyn
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:10:00 -
[3]
Fascinating stuff.
I would encourage more research into this subject. To be mindlocked is a horrible, horrible fate, and any chance of lessening the rate of victims in the capsule training system should be pursued.
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Cardinal,
Deus Imperiosus Acies |
Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.10.27 19:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jakiin on 27/10/2009 19:51:05
It would make sense that those more in tune with Creation are able to survive out of body experiences better. I find it interesting that the Brutor have such a low 'survival' rate, though.
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Jakiin
Holder Heir of the Kingdom
'Pacifist Reclaimer' |
Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
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Posted - 2009.10.27 20:52:00 -
[5]
Ms. Evanda Char commented on this subject at the First Seyllin Conference. Transcript here. Browse to Ms. Char's address.
The main point was that fluid router transmission interference by an outside source is the most likely cause of wetgraving and mindlock.
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Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.28 03:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Ms. Evanda Char commented on this subject at the First Seyllin Conference. Transcript here. Browse to Ms. Char's address.
The main point was that fluid router transmission interference by an outside source is the most likely cause of wetgraving and mindlock.
Please accept my gratitude for the reference. I am just now learning about many of the advancements in hydrostatic capsule technology. I find it amazing that most of these changes have occurred in such a short span of time... only a few years.
I apologize, for I believe that maybe I am confused about the terminology as it is now in use. We first encountered mind lock, wetgraving, capsule-dependent agoraphobia, Sorellin Syndrome, and many of these problems over a century ago, before electronic consciousness transfer was possible. I recall discussions on this topic with experts from the Federation during the latter days of the Gallente-Caldari War. It was one of the few times I had left the Quietude until recently.
I am perhaps confused because the modern usage of these terms is different? I inquire, as I recall, faintly and distantly, three other occasions in which researchers came to Atashtana to discuss ideas to make capsules safe. These were after the war, I believe. It is sometimes difficult to distinguish what I remember firsthand from what I have learned from the records my past vessels so diligently kept for our future selves.
Indeed, now that I think about it... Yes, I have some notes here about a meeting in YC 88 with researchers from several corporations. They were working on a joint project to improve the safety of capsules. I tried to get them to meditate with me, as I felt it would enhance our productivity. Sadly, only the Poteque and Ishukone representatives did so.
I apologize. I am rambling. I most humbly appreciate your assistance.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.10.28 05:58:00 -
[7]
Ms. Myshtana, I believe Mr. Soter is the one who has his terminology confused.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:19:00 -
[8]
That is interesting if it is indeed so. I hope the schools will react to this by including more spirituality as part of the pilot training program.
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |
Sinjin Mokk
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:54:00 -
[9]
When I first read the report two years ago I chuckled, because Dr. Nadapur had really just re-invented the wheel.
Those of us in what is commonly known as "cyber Knights" (the Pallindic Orders of Khanid) and other similar priestly Orders, have known the dangers of advanced cyber-psychosis for quite some time.
As the mind strives to cope with the extra senses and sensation given to it by cybernetics and especially when one becomes capsuleer, it is vitally important that the mind keeps an "anchor" with the "real" world. The world outside the machine.
Have you sever seen a small child with a video game? Ever see how, given the chance, the child will spend hours attached to it? It is this basic, semi-escapist pattern that leads to full-blown somatoform disorders later in life.
When the mind is trained, through an aspect of faith, to extend the natural senses through either implant or meditation, then the user is more likely to grow with an implant and not have their personality subsumed by one.
(It is a little heretical of me to say, but I theorize that if one had faith enough in a more temporal cause, it might work almost as well as having a spiritual anchor.)
We of the Order believe in making our implants a welcome extension of ourselves. We augment our bodies as we augment any other ship or weapon to make us the best warrior we can be, so that we can serve God to the best of our abilities. When an Amarr looks at an tInfectedv or someone with a severe somatoform disorder, we use words like tabominationv or tsinv to express the lack of faith and focus that let the poor soul lose their very Self to the machine.
Please feel free to contact me privately and IFll see if I can have some of our studies released to you for your private study.
Pray! |
Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.28 14:45:00 -
[10]
An Amarrian researcher concludes that Brutor have the highest number of cases? How surprising! 
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.10.28 16:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Stratio
An Amarrian researcher concludes that Brutor have the highest number of cases? How surprising!
Hrm. If said researcher was skewing his results, what's surprising is that the Intaki came in first, the Achura second-- that's a Federal member, right at the top of the list.
Am I mistaken in thinking that Brutor tend to take pride in their physical capabilities? Achur monks do practice the physical arts, but with the aim of spiritual, mental, and physical unity.
The implication doesn't seem to be "faith" versus "materialism." The implication, as I understand it, seems to be that the degree people tend to be solidly grounded in their own bodies influences their susceptibility to mind lock.
It seems like the combination of the down-to-earth Brutor cultural outlook with their pride in physical prowess would make them uniquely vulnerable.
Is that really such a clearly pro-Amarr, or even anti-Brutor, thing to say?
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.28 17:09:00 -
[12]
I do admit to having had a rather knee-jerk reaction, my apologies.
However, I am having difficulty finding any good sources which describe these conditions. Do you have any?
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.28 19:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Stratio
An Amarrian researcher concludes that Brutor have the highest number of cases? How surprising!
Indeed, the same concern arose in myself whilst reading, hence my interest in collecting other sources of information. To be fair, the Amarrians did not fare as well as might be supposed had the work been unduly biased. Indeed, their score would tend to question his hypothesis:
Quote:
RACIAL DISTRIBUTION OF CAPSULE-RELATED DISORDERS
Achura: 1.92% (258)
Amarrian: 10.65% (1405)
Brutor: 11.20% (1506)
Civire: 9.81% (1319)
Deteis: 10.90% (1465)
Gallente: 10.45% (1432)
Intaki: 0.71% (95)
Jin-Mei: 8.84% (1189)
Khanid: 5.49% (738)
Ni-Kunni: 7.90% (1062)
Sebiestor: 6.24% (839)
Vherokior: 5.34% (718)
Other & Mongrel: 10.55% (1417)
---
Mean: 7.69%
Median: 8.84%
Racial Mean: 7.45%
Racial Median: 8.37%
Please know that I find the Reverend Doctor's use of the word "mongrel" offensive in this context, but I am attempting to accurately reflect his published work.
What I have not been able to acquire, nor to correlate, is the overall ethnic distribution of capsuleers, as this might, of course, influence the results. I should like to calibrate this data to reflect an even distribution of capsuleers so as to arrive at a more complete understanding of the data before drawing conclusions. Ideally, I should like to do the same with other studies as well.
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Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.28 19:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stratio
However, I am having difficulty finding any good sources which describe these conditions. Do you have any?
I offer my understanding, limited though it may be:
Mind Lock, or Capsule-Engendered Asensory Catatonia, is a condition in which the capsuleer becomes unable to mentally disconnect from the pod and consciously reacquire proprioception and sensory input from his organic body. In such cases, the pilot may become catatonic, and in many instances, unable to reconnect with the pod once separated therefrom.
Wetgraving, or Capsule-Induced Autonomic Neuropathy, is a condition in which the capsuleer becomes unable to manage autonomic nervous functions without the pod and is therefore physically dependent on the machinery thereof for survival. Pilots thus afflicted often soon after succumb to catatonia. Wetgraving is believed to be related to Capsule-Induced Motor Neuropathy and Capsule-Related Muscle Atrophy.
Sorellin Syndrome, named after Doctor Lilla Sorellin of the Federation Medical Office, refers to a condition in which the capsuleer becomes overly sensitive to external stimuli. It is believed to be triggered by the pressurization and depressurization cycles of the hydrostatic capsule's biosupportive gel.
Capsule-Dependent Agoraphobia is a pathological fear of open spaces and/or people that is relieved only by returning to the capsule or being separated from the pod for some length of time, that is, a gradual reintroduction to public areas and crowds.
I recall reading about numerous other psychological issues related to capsule use, particularly the older models in use before YC 104. In the interest of brevity, I defer discussion as these are much like Capsule-Dependent Agoraphobia in that the pod is believed to be causative; but, that the disorder is essentially identical to those fond in non-pilots.
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.28 20:11:00 -
[15]
I would appreciate it if you could provide some verifyable sources. 
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.29 03:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Stratio
I would appreciate it if you could provide some verifyable sources.
Of course. It is my understanding that the Reverend Doctor is on a speaking tour throughout high security space. This week, I believe he is in Luminaire. After that, I am not sure, which is, of course, disappointing as I shall not have the time to attend his symposia there. I should very much like to discuss his work with him. I have attached his paper in the message footer.
Also attached, if you please you may find those other documents which I am at liberty to make public. There are many more publicly-accessible documents on the subject, including first-year curricula for most capsuleer educational academies.
Of course, I personally wonder if, in the case of mind lock, the disconnect the scientists speak of might not be so total. Perhaps the afflicted may yet possess sensory input without the means to react thereto on either a voluntary or involuntary level. Such a fate would, I should think, be truly horrific. To be aware of one's surroundings yet unable to interact in any fashion must be far worse than to be completely withdrawn from the outside. It is no wonder to me that these problems continue to hold so much interest for researchers and capsuleers.
Then again, perhaps these victims have simply transitioned, their souls departing their bodies before the moment of death?
I digress. My apologies. In any event, I hope that the materials are useful and intellectually stimulating.
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.29 07:11:00 -
[17]
I see no attachments. Please tell me the exact location I can actually find such documents. If they are not available via GalNet links, please say so too.
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Vendrin
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2009.10.29 08:03:00 -
[18]
This is an account of the first known instance of Wetgraving, Pilot Stratio. Perhaps it will provide you with some of the information you want.
http://www.eveonline.com/races/wetgrave/?pp=background,stories
_______________________________
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Ataharan Taldaraani
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.10.29 09:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Stratio
I see no attachments. Please tell me the exact location I can actually find such documents. If they are not available via GalNet links, please say so too.
I don't want to seem cheeky, but I can see Kyraella Idama's attachments quite easily. I had to enable "IC Mode" and "Show Footer" under the "Forum Options" tab in the GalNet browser on my neocom. On the University system it's just to the right of "View Options" along the menubar, but your system might have it somewhere else.
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.29 12:13:00 -
[20]
Vendrin, thank you I will read that.
Ataharan, I am not sure what you mean, I can clearly see my own footer with a GalNet link in it.
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
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Yuron
Gallente
Core Ascension
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Posted - 2009.10.29 12:51:00 -
[21]
Thank you for sharing your findings with the community Kyraella.
I have long taught students of mine, the values of a healthy spirit in Capsule operation, and indeed every single aspect of a long and varied, fruitful universal existence.
It is no secret, that the ships of today are a complex extension of the mind, as much as ones own body is. Mastering control of a pod-vessel in combat is more akin to mastering a Martial Art for Self-Defence, than commanding a Starship via outdated interfaces.
Certainly, anyone can throw a punch with a degree of success, given they have the strength to do so! They can be accurate and quick, given they have intellect and dexterity... Yet, without a fundamental understanding of themselves and their place within this universe they can not hope to advance to the status of a Master of a Martial Art.
This is what separates a Master of the Arts, from a Thug you see. Whilst the Thug will battle mental demons, The Master of the Arts can slay such demons before they ever see light. The same person on different paths may have been born into a troubling childhood situation. In the case of the Criminal, the Thug, this early Scar may push them into a life of Violence and Crime, Unhappiness and Loneliness, an inability to experience love in some cases. Yet, given the proper spiritual guidance, the same person can learn to become at peace with that which is in their past, and indeed that which is to be their future. Once such a state has been achieved, it is most difficult to present a challenge, either mental, physical or spiritual that can rock the foundations of the individual, a situation that may uproot them.
A high sense of Spirituality, detaching and enhancing the spirit so as to empower the body and mind, is the key to overcoming all Psychological Disorders and mental hardships.
I encourage Capsuleers looking to further their skills and shore up defense against Mind-Lock and Wetgraving to practise meditation in the pursuit of a better understanding of themselves, their spirit or to use a more scientific term, their "Observing Self", they Immaterial 3rd Eye that is so critical to command of a Pod-Based Vessel.
Peace Be With You All
- Signed,
Ixokuenrhaous Yuron'Mlasi,
Seventh Incarnation Intaki Reborn |
Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.30 11:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stratio
Vendrin, thank you I will read that.
A most interesting read indeed - in fact a must for all pod pilots - I will ask Poreuomai to add it to our corp's Pilot's Reference Handbook.
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.10.30 18:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 30/10/2009 18:16:34
Now, I was willing to go along with this a certain distance, but I'm afraid I now have to say, "Not so fast, pilots."
Firstly, I, also, do not see the attachments, and I'm not exactly incapable with a computer. If they exist, would someone who can see them please repost them in the main body of a submission.
Secondly, what we have so far is not a study: it's a collection of raw data, if it's even accurate, which I'm starting to seriously doubt. You can pick up this kind of thing by doing a quick survey of training facilities; all it takes is getting and verifying academy records.
This is naked data, and as it is it is only a first step towards the results claimed for this study.
The "study" that would produce the results here claimed would need to compare these proportional numbers of victims to the number of capsuleers in service, broken down by bloodline. It would also have to do some analysis of differences over time, discussing such issues as improved training techniques for capsuleers and the relatively recent arrival of, for example, the Achura among the ranks of capsuleers.
Finally, while the study's purported author is nowhere to be found (searches for his family name produce nothing whatever; searches for his given name produce some Amarrian records of a man who appears to be no relation), we now have supposed Intaki idamas and a certain not-exactly-disinterested student who already has likely been falsifying reports coming out of the bloody woodwork to support this "study."
The most telling line so far is:
Originally by: Yuron
Thank you for sharing your findings with the community Kyraella.
Her findings? Weren't they supposed to be from a certain reverend Amarrian? Aren't his own supposed conclusions only dubiously supported by the data presented? And yet, while I can't find him at all, the ones I see bringing forward this study that, if read as we're told to read it, strongly supports notions of Intaki spiritual superiority, are uniformly Intaki.
Apparently only Intaki can find it. Apparently only Intaki can see it when it's attached. And then we get this:
Quote:
This is what separates a Master of the Arts, from a Thug you see. Whilst the Thug will battle mental demons, The Master of the Arts can slay such demons before they ever see light.
Having trained in the arts of Achura-shuijing since the age of eight, I don't necessarily disagree, but even so in this context this strikes me as more a punchline than true wisdom.
The setup is simply too perfect.
An outsider, an Amarrian, creates a "study," really just a collection of data, and from this concludes that the religious are more likely to resist the ills of the capsule. Only, the True Amarr are (if we read the data as we're told to read it) actually among the more likely to suffer capsule-related horrors, so that can't be right. But look!-- the Achura and Intaki are right at the bottom, with the Intaki representing by far the lowest proportion!
Now why could that be? Could it have something to do with their Deeply Significant Spiritual Practices? Why, yes! The correlation is so strong here that it simply must imply causation.
Let's not mind the point that many capsuleers from these populations are from wealthier families much more likely to have been involved in worldly things, or that relatively few have extensive spiritual training (to say nothing of being Masters of their arts). Let's also not mind the point that this "study" isn't a study, or that the only people who can find the original study are the people who most benefit from it.
Considering the credit it does my people, it's tempting, all too tempting, to just go along, and it's possible that I'm wrong. If this study is real, and there's much more to it than I see, so be it, but pilots, something smells foul.
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Kyraella Myshtana
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Posted - 2009.10.31 17:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Firstly, I, also, do not see the attachments, and I'm not exactly incapable with a computer. If they exist, would someone who can see them please repost them in the main body of a submission.
I have heard this from a number of corresponents now. While it pains me to acknowledge that our Federation might engage in censorship, I am not so naive as to believe that any government is free from the practice. What I fail to understand is the threat posed by these materials, many of which- the Revened Doctor's study excepted, I obtained more than a decade ago...
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Finally, while the study's purported author is nowhere to be found... We now have supposed Intaki idamas and a certain not-exactly-disinterested student who already has likely been falsifying reports coming out of the bloody woodwork to support this "study."
My understanding is that the Reverend Doctor spoke in Luminaire as expected. I watched a portion of his remarks after the fact and conferred with some of those in attendance. I understand that he will be in Cistuvaert in two weeks and I shall endeavor to speak with him there, though I am given the impression he entertains few inquiries from the general public.
I apologize if I gave the impression of support for Dr. Nadapur's research. Indeed, given my sensitivity regarding anti-Intaki violence, I find his results potentially troubling. Were this research reflective of some inherent difference... What the prideful might view as a blessing, I should think would provide fodder for those who hate and mistrust my people already.
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Her findings? Weren't they supposed to be from a certain reverend Amarrian? Aren't his own supposed conclusions only dubiously supported by the data presented? And yet, while I can't find him at all, the ones I see bringing forward this study that, if read as it's hinted we should read it, certainly as Yuron reads it, strongly supports notions of Intaki spiritual superiority, are uniformly Intaki.
I chose to interpret his gratitude as addressing the act of questioning the study, though now that you mention it, I hope that I did not give him or others the impression that I was involved in the study or support its findings. Now I must contemplate the terrifying possibility that I have encouraged further hubris amongst my own people... This I consider a troubling thought.
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
An outsider, an Amarrian, creates a "study," really just a collection of data, and from this concludes that the religious are more likely to resist the ills of the capsule. Only, the True Amarr are (if we read the data as we're told to read it) actually among the more likely to suffer capsule-related horrors, so that can't be right. But look!-- the Achura and Intaki are right at the bottom, with the Intaki representing by far the lowest proportion!
Now why could that be? Could it have something to do with their Deeply Significant Spiritual Practices? Why, yes! The correlation is so strong here that it simply must imply causation.
Let's not mind the point that many capsuleers from these populations are from wealthier families much more likely to have been involved in worldly things, or that relatively few have extensive spiritual training (to say nothing of being Masters of their arts).
If you please, take note that I drew notice to this incongruity at the time and suggested that it might falsify his conclusions. Indeed, it is with sadness that I validate your assessment of my people's drift away from Ida. If there is any difference at all, our faith cannot be causative thereof. It is for this reason that I drew attention to the study and requested assistance in acquiring further research materials.
I apologize if my questioning is hurtful to yourself or your people. As I said, this bears upon a matter of gravity and I seek substance, not slogans.
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Yuron
Gallente
Core Ascension
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Posted - 2009.11.03 11:52:00 -
[25]
Dear Aria Jenneth,
I am sorry if you see my words as an endorsement for racial superiority. I am a Humanist, I see all Bloodlines as equal to one another, even my own. It's saddening to think my words could be taken otherwise.
I simply support the theory that clarity of the mind, is important in Capsule Control. I believe that such clarity can be achieved, through the spiritual practises that I study and I wished to share some of my understanding in this discussion of the Data brought forth.
In the faint hope that I may be of some assistance to the discussion and maybe even combating the terrible afflictions of Mind-Lock and Wetgraving.
a
- Signed,
Ixokuenrhaous Yuron'Mlasi,
Seventh Incarnation Intaki Reborn |
Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.11.03 12:06:00 -
[26]
I will have to agree with Ms. Jenneth in this scenario. I cannot see the attachments, and I find the idea that the Federation would censor these documents to be logically unsound.
What we have here is some sort of myth, I believe. I was unable to find any such appointments made by any Reverends in Luminaire at the mentioned date upon a quick search, and in fact I've been unable to find any information on this man whatsoever.
As much as I would like to endorse this, the lack of evidence and puzzling statements about nonexistent documents and lectures simply make this too suspicious.
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Jakiin
Holder Heir of the Kingdom
'Pacifist Reclaimer' |
Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.03 18:55:00 -
[27]
Until I see the paper published in a respected journal where it is peer-reviewed, I shall discount any such research. As it stands, it merely appears to be a piece of thinly veiled racist propaganda and is as such deplorable.
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.06 01:23:00 -
[28]
I will agree that a proper study would lend weight to the argument.
However...
What the data suggests is not entirely wrong. Yes, maybe the methods of collection are a bit shoddy. We "Cyber Knights" (as we are known) have known for quite some time that pilots who have faith and focus fare much better than pilots who muck about blind, unused to the new senses theyFve developed.
We tend to call them "inferior."
I mean, how can you find your way without moral compass? We Amarr apparently have a much stricter selection process when it comes to allowing someone to even have implants, let alone be a capsuleer. And yet, we are the bad guys. We call our working class "slaves" and even though they fare better than the "common free worker," we get reviled by others and then become the victims of slander and propaganda`
But I digress`
If the other governments would take a greater responsibility in who they let become capsuleers, then the instances of flying immortal crazies wreaking havoc on civilization would be far less.
So. Who among us would be willing to collect the data and make a proper study of this?
S.
Infidel defilers.
They will all drown in lakes of blood.
Now they will understand why they are afraid of the dark.
Now they will learn why they fear the night. |
Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.11.06 02:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
I mean, how can you find your way without moral compass? We Amarr apparently have a much stricter selection process when it comes to allowing someone to even have implants, let alone be a capsuleer.
Quote:
If the other governments would take a greater responsibility in who they let become capsuleers, then the instances of flying immortal crazies wreaking havoc on civilization would be far less.
The argument tends to lend less support to this study when you realize that it claims the True Amarr have one of the highest 'going bat**** nanners' ratings.
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Jakiin
Holder Heir of the Kingdom
'Pacifist Reclaimer' |
Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.11.07 06:09:00 -
[30]
If Amarrians had their own moral compass, their church would be out of business.
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