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CCP: When will i see 1) 64bit & 2) DX10 versions of EVE?

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Constance Red NoobFleet	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:38:00 - [1] So as time goes by im wondering when we'll the DX10 version of EVE, and when we may see a 64bit version? Any ideas?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:41:00 - [2] When the overwhelmingly vast part of the playerbase dumps xp for win7. So basically in about 2 or 3 years from now.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:44:00 - [3] The day that EVE needs to allocate 4 GB of ram, we might see a 64bit version. Don't count on it for the next 5 years.
Constance Red NoobFleet	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:46:00 - [4] Originally by: LaVista Vista The day that EVE needs to allocate 4 GB of ram, we might see a 64bit version. Don't count on it for the next 5 years. Well, LaVista you know that way of thinking isn't logical, you're a more intelligent person that that. If every developer purely developed 64bit applications because their 32bit version had outgrown the contraints of 32bit OS's, we wouldn't see many applications out there, yet, we do, so thankfully everyone doesnt think the way you do. As for DX10, well i was told we were getting this years ago, so whats the deal with DX10?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Constance Red As for DX10, well i was told we were getting this years ago, so whats the deal with DX10? We don't have a seperate dx10 client because the overwhelming majority of eve users are on xp and stuck with dx9. CCP said it will no longer support multiple graphics clients to save on redundent development costs so until the playerbase can all play on a dx10 client it won't happen.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:55:00 - [6] Popcorn. Check. Umbrella. Check. Could get entertaining. Simple answer. When it becomes worth it for the client to be updated for those things. I'd agree with LaVista, 5 years maybe 4. If the dropping of Classic is anything to go by atleast. Anyways, in before this turns into a XP vs. Vista/Win7 thread. Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work.
5n4keyes Sacred Templars	Posted - 2009.11.01 20:58:00 - [7] When 64bit and DX10 were discussed, this was when everyone expected amazing things from Vista! Lets face it, Vista was utter crap, the uptake of the OS is one of the worst Microsoft have seen, infact I beleive reading that 75% if Eve players still use Windows XP. Given the promise Win7 is showing, I think we will see a much greater uptake of this OS, thus more reasons for any game or program developers to push more into 64Bit and DX10 areas! Tho rumor has it, many developers are holding out for DX11 ;)
Furrot	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:01:00 - [8] I hope CCP can get Transgaming to work on a 64 bit version of their piece of **** emulation technology so Snow Leopard users can take advantage as well. I started playing EVE because of the Mac client but I have to duel boot because you can't even use a browser while in EVE because of the overhead. My machine runs at 24 fps at medium settings in OSX and 50 fps maxed right out in Windows. The fact that XP can't even see all of the RAM I have installed makes it even more embarassing for Transgaming.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Constance Red Originally by: LaVista Vista The day that EVE needs to allocate 4 GB of ram, we might see a 64bit version. Don't count on it for the next 5 years. Well, LaVista you know that way of thinking isn't logical, you're a more intelligent person that that. If every developer purely developed 64bit applications because their 32bit version had outgrown the contraints of 32bit OS's, we wouldn't see many applications out there, yet, we do, so thankfully everyone doesnt think the way you do. As for DX10, well i was told we were getting this years ago, so whats the deal with DX10? The fact is that any 64bit copy of Windows will run 32bit applications. Everybody could upgrade to 64bits, and nothing would change. The day that Microsoft is willing to end their history of having backwards compability, then you have a point. But for now, we have WoW64 that works very well. The cost for CCP to produce a 64bit client is extremely high. They would have to get hold of 64bit libraries for things that they don't do themselves. And that is to very little benefit. I have barely experienced an EVE client using up 1gb of RAM. I used 800mb once, but that was due to a memory leak. The simple fact is that EVE has no need to allocate 4 GB of ram. I'm a programmer. I'd love if everybody would just ship 64bit applications and ditch 32bit. But from a business perspective, it makes NO sense for now. The Windows platform is used in a way, due to Microsoft's precedence in always supporting decade old technology, where you would have to slightly stupid to completely move to a 64bit system. It's being done for things like Exchange. But business applications have been running on 64bit architecture for quite a while.
illford baker Pilots of Damnation death from above..	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:04:00 - [10] Edited by: illford baker on 01/11/2009 21:05:47 Originally by: Zeba We don't have a seperate dx10 client because the overwhelming majority of eve users are on xp gotta correct you there, as you can see from this dev blog XP users are starting to become the minority. notice that windows 7 is at 8.8% before it even came out! i would like to see a new chart now that it is out. so i think separate DX10 client can be justified. (how about DX11, it is on vista and 7, backwards creatable with DX10 card minus hardware tessellation, but hardware tessellation would make it look awesome.)

Constance Red NoobFleet	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:04:00 - [11] Snake, DX11 is already out, i have 64bit W7 Ultimate and its preinstalled. So seeing as Microsoft no longer supports XP, and hasn't for a long time now, is there any word on future development to take advantage of the new OS's and technology. I know i would prefer to see increased performance on DX10 and 64bit systems than new features and shiney new graphics.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Constance Red So seeing as Microsoft no longer supports XP, and hasn't for a long time now I know i would prefer to see increased performance on DX10 and 64bit systems than new features and shiney new graphics. First of all, mainstream XP support was dropped barely 7 months ago. However Microsoft still supports XP for certain not-so-niche markets, using XP(Netbook market especially). Dx10 and Dx11 will give you better performance, sure. But it requires you to rework your engine to make use of the new features. 64bit will not give you increased performance in EVE. EVE isn't a memory intensive application.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:15:00 - [13] Originally by: illford baker Originally by: Zeba We don't have a seperate dx10 client because the overwhelming majority of eve users are on xp gotta correct you there, as you can see from this dev blog XP users are starting to become the minority. notice that windows 7 is at 8.8% before it even came out! i would like to see a new chart now that it is out. so i think separate DX10 client can be justified. (how about DX11, it is on vista and 7, backwards creatable with DX10 card minus hardware tessellation, but hardware tessellation would make it look awesome.) Ah a newer chart. Well the info I was going on had xp at about 75% and now its down to about 50% so it would be interesting to see what the latest numbers are running at. I myself will probably be going win7 as soon as the first service pack comes out and m$ has a chance to plug up all the security holes only the hackers currently know about. Now when that xp user base percentage gets to under 5% then you will see a newer client come out be it dx10 or 11 as ccp can't just arbitrarily shut out a signigicant segment of the subscibers just to let some of the moar tech savvy get the extra bells and whistles their rigs and os can support.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:15:00 - [14] ITT; OP learned some new words and is eager to show the world that he did. ----------- ADM-I
SpaceSavage tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:16:00 - [15] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Constance Red So seeing as Microsoft no longer supports XP, and hasn't for a long time now I know i would prefer to see increased performance on DX10 and 64bit systems than new features and shiney new graphics. First of all, mainstream XP support was dropped barely 7 months ago. However Microsoft still supports XP for certain not-so-niche markets, using XP(Netbook market especially). Dx10 and Dx11 will give you better performance, sure. But it requires you to rework your engine to make use of the new features. 64bit will not give you increased performance in EVE. EVE isn't a memory intensive application. I understand what you're saying, stand alone the EVE Client doesn't really need that much memory, but with the game evolving how it is nowadays, with people running 2, 3 or even 4 clients on one machine using multiple monitors its certainly a thought. Don't get me wrong, i don't have memory issues, my RAM is DDR3 and is nice and fast, and the spec of my PC is good. But wouldn't you like... more? As for XP being discontinued in terms of support, Microsoft announced something like 2 years before that it'd be discontinued (well they follow a pattern of supporting an OS for a number of years anyway, almost like clockwork). I'd be interested to see some stats on OS usage nowadays, i'd be willing to bet that Vista/7 make up individually larger chunks of the OS useage pie that XP. _______________
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:17:00 - [16] Expect to see any kind of general jump from 32-64bit until about 2014 and that continues with DX10. Why 2014? that is when paid support for WinXP drops and many business will have little choice but to move on since they can no longer get support for XP. The only issues with both DX10 and 64bit is that the EVE client will look no better in DX10 or DX11 since we have had plenty of time to use DX9 and can do everything DX10 can show in DX9. It is mearly performance advantages it creates. Tesselation won't do much yet until developers get well dug into using it. 64bit will only allow for EVE to use more than 4GB of RAM and it is looking that if system become more optimized as they are heading many users will never need more than 8GB of RAM since Bus and HD speeds will increase enough to allow paging to cover the rest. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:19:00 - [17] This will happen when microsoft doesnt release a version of windows that doesnt suck. BTW windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed.
illford baker Pilots of Damnation death from above..	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:20:00 - [18] Edited by: illford baker on 01/11/2009 21:24:47 Originally by: Zeba I myself will probably be going win7 as soon as the first service pack comes out and m$ has a chance to plug up all the security holes only the hackers currently know about. there probably wont be as many security holes, as they had an open beta with millions of participants. i don't think that's an issue. Originally by: Obsidian Hawk BTW windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. blasphemy, 7 is hundreds of times better than vista. there are many new features, i couldn't imagine going back go vista or XP.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:20:00 - [19] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 01/11/2009 21:20:48 Do keep in mind that unless CCP goes back to the old ways and supports multiple clients, XP use will have to be much less then a 45+% minority before the client changes. Hell, eliminating a 10% minority would probably hurt a bit. Veal, murder. Baby Carrots, healthy snack. Food hypocrisy at work.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:21:00 - [20] Originally by: SpaceSavage I understand what you're saying, stand alone the EVE Client doesn't really need that much memory, but with the game evolving how it is nowadays, with people running 2, 3 or even 4 clients on one machine using multiple monitors its certainly a thought. The limitation with 32bit is that each process can allocate 32bits of ram. If you are running on a 64bit system with over 9000GB of ram, you could run as many EVE clients as you want. Quote: Don't get me wrong, i don't have memory issues, my RAM is DDR3 and is nice and fast, and the spec of my PC is good. But wouldn't you like... more? Yeah, sure. My 8GB isn't enough. Quote: As for XP being discontinued in terms of support, Microsoft announced something like 2 years before that it'd be discontinued (well they follow a pattern of supporting an OS for a number of years anyway, almost like clockwork). Let me once again point out that Microsoft still supports XP to a fair degree. If you bought a desktop machine with XP, OEM copy(Has no support) or anything like that, you won't get support. If you bought a support license, a netbook with XP or the like, Microsoft will still support it. Microsoft also has 24 months of support for service packs. Mainstream XP support was dropped 14. April, 2009.

DS S	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:26:00 - [21] I think instead of working on x64 and dx 10&11, i think they should work with the multiclient function. I personally used 5-6 clients at a time, but if i can get away with using 2 cleints at the same time with my dual monitors with 1 cleint on each scrren using fullscreen, without havving to tab or anything, i think it would be more benificial to more people then going with x64 and dxc10.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 7 is just Vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Vista is just Windows 2003 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 20003 is just Windows 2000 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Seriously, what is your point?
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:28:00 - [23] Edited by: Lork Niffle on 01/11/2009 21:30:05 Originally by: DS S f i can get away with using 2 cleints at the same time with my dual monitors with 1 cleint on each scrren using fullscreen, without havving to tab or anything, . That's actually a DirectX issue. It has issues rendering both fullscreen 3D applications and 2D desktop items. You'll have to speak to Microsoft about that, running multiple fullscreen applications. EVEMon though has a function to 'maximise' EVE as if it's fullscreen but without the minimising issues. Also about Win7 being very simialr to Vista. Did you not see when Microsoft built it from the ground up? The transfer from Vista to XP was not to say the least smooth. I think it would have really of been worse for Microsoft to redesign their OS again and have another 'Vista' fiasco. They have although certianly improved it enough, Win7 , to warrent a full price OS. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics.
Kravick Drasani	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk BTW windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Most people already know this. However with Win7 Microsoft cut out most of the useless bloat that caused Vista to suck so bad in the first place. Vista as a core OS wasn't bad, it just contained so much bloat that it was an inoperable piece of ** for most people. Cut the bloat and now it works wonderfully. - Originally by:** Rilwar If you want to nag on warp speed, how about the question of "Why does my Crow manage to go 9.5AU/s for 2 seconds during a 9AU jump?"
illford baker Pilots of Damnation death from above..	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:31:00 - [25] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Obsidian Hawk windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 7 is just Vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Vista is just Windows 2003 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 20003 is just Windows 2000 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Seriously, what is your point? all of those is not just some features fixed, they are all introducing new features,and better preformance (not counting vista), thats my point.
Constance Red NoobFleet	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:33:00 - [26] The fact that W7 is just a better version of Vista isn't really an arguement, why would that be a bad thing? lol Anyway... back on topic, speculation about DX10 etc.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:37:00 - [27] Originally by: illford baker Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Obsidian Hawk windows 7 is just vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 7 is just Vista in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Vista is just Windows 2003 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Windows 20003 is just Windows 2000 in a new shiny package with some features fixed. Seriously, what is your point? all of those is not just some features fixed, they are all introducing new features,and better preformance (not counting vista), thats my point. That's not true. In my experience, Vista ran better than XP. Why? Because Vista made away with some of the older bottlenecks. For instance, a totally reworked driver-model that made Vista orders of magnitude more stable than XP ever was, against the most common issues(Like drivers dying randomly). I realize that Vista wasn't perfect. And in some scenarios it stank pretty badly. But you have these things for every single new version of Windows.
illford baker Pilots of Damnation death from above..	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:40:00 - [28] Originally by: Constance Red The fact that W7 is just a better version of Vista isn't really an arguement, why would that be a bad thing? lol Anyway... back on topic, speculation about DX10 etc. good idea. if they are gonna do DX10 they might as well do DX11, supporting multiple clients is justified now that DX11 OSes have become the majority, and we like to look at pretty things. there have been several threads about DX10 and that means people want it. balls in your court CCP!
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Constance Red speculation about DX10 etc. When DX10 came out you were able to do amazing things. Much more realistic lighting shadows etc. You now see the exact same in DX9, why? Well we have experience. Why bother retraining to use a new system when you can just pour money in plowing through the brick walls of the current. Certainly easier to manange than having to retrain. It is now worthless to use DX10 unless you eventually want to take advantage of procedural qualities with tesselation in DX11 (which is actually quite awesome btw). Don;'t expect any leap anywhere until either Vista/Win7 has 40% and up of Gaming systems or 2014 when XP support finally ends and every business would have to move into DX10 and Vista/Win7. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics.
illford baker Pilots of Damnation death from above..	Posted - 2009.11.01 21:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Lork Niffle Don;'t expect any leap anywhere until either Vista/Win7 has 40% and up of Gaming systems . i will, again, point out this dev blog vista/7 does have 40%+



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