Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 56 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Herman Klaus
Caldari Touched By Klaus
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:33:00 -
[1501]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar 2.5m units...ok, I'm impressed.
Epic MD get. I was after that you git!
But ya. Almost 300b in Tech. Wow! Trying to keep the price down.....
|
LarcatOfZion
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:48:00 -
[1502]
Originally by: Clambumper June
Originally by: Ludacrys See, tech price is completely inflated, if let alone it would fall like a stone
I understand you want to be a cool rap star, but truth be told, you come off like every other dumb pop star who thinks an over processed vocal track will sell their records. You sir have a lame name and a lame sense of the market. Move along and find some other thread to camp. A little reading and research will tell you the truth. If you can't read the proven numbers already placed in this thread then you qualify my previous statement. Pick yourself up, move along.
/Three Finger Salute (Girl Scouts of America Salute)
You have both an excellent name and excellent poasts. I would like to subscribe.
|
LarcatOfZion
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:50:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: Weaselior
Now, even within my own corps the people who mine moons are the most horrid of all industrialists, trying to do this with so many other corps would probably lead to open warfare.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I don't know any moonminers, so I don't know what their outlook is like at all.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:41:00 -
[1504]
Originally by: LarcatOfZion
Originally by: Weaselior
Now, even within my own corps the people who mine moons are the most horrid of all industrialists, trying to do this with so many other corps would probably lead to open warfare.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I don't know any moonminers, so I don't know what their outlook is like at all.
A lot of drama: everyone has an entitlement complex to all the moons they want and think the guy that got there first is cheating. Because there's a limited number of good moons, people tend to be absolute jerks about sniping all of them they can, as well as incredibly whiny that they don't have the moons they want. Anything else, people can cooperate, but every moon miner is himself against every other moon miner in the alliance.
|
LarcatOfZion
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:48:00 -
[1505]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: LarcatOfZion
Originally by: Weaselior
Now, even within my own corps the people who mine moons are the most horrid of all industrialists, trying to do this with so many other corps would probably lead to open warfare.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I don't know any moonminers, so I don't know what their outlook is like at all.
A lot of drama: everyone has an entitlement complex to all the moons they want and think the guy that got there first is cheating. Because there's a limited number of good moons, people tend to be absolute jerks about sniping all of them they can, as well as incredibly whiny that they don't have the moons they want. Anything else, people can cooperate, but every moon miner is himself against every other moon miner in the alliance.
I always just assumed that the directors of big alliances would have cronies that would set up the POSes, and that the goo was semi-communal property the proceeds from the sales thereof were used by leadership to buy titans and crap.
You mean individuals in big alliances get the cashflows from the goo?
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:41:00 -
[1506]
Edited by: Weaselior on 22/06/2011 23:44:29
Originally by: LarcatOfZion
I always just assumed that the directors of big alliances would have cronies that would set up the POSes, and that the goo was semi-communal property the proceeds from the sales thereof were used by leadership to buy titans and crap.
You mean individuals in big alliances get the cashflows from the goo?
Depends on the alliance and the moon. How goonswarm works is certan moons (tech, neo, dysp, prom) are alliance moons: they're owned by the alliance, the alliance towers it. However, lesser moons (platinum, for example) are privately owned. Any member of the alliance can own those, first come first served. However Goonswarm is unique in that much more is done at the alliance level, instead of the corp level. In other alliances (such as the former NC) those valuable moons like technetium are owned at the corp level - various corps in the alliance own them and they have their own ways of distributing them and so on. If you want to do something with tech in Goonswarm, you talk to me, but in most alliances there is a huge list of people you must talk to and all of them are gonna be annoyed they don't have more technetium and be all whiny and bitter.
|
Lieutenant Obvious
Lobster Sticks To Magnet
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 03:53:00 -
[1507]
Edited by: Lieutenant Obvious on 23/06/2011 03:54:21 Razor distributes the "big money" moons appropriately to individual corps. More active (PVP) corps get more moons. The corps get to determine what they do with their moon goo gold. We had massive reimbursement plans, for instance, and life was good.
Within the corps, those big money moons are controlled by the corp itself. Within my old corp, it eventually became that no individuals were supposed to have their own moons (as they were likely to have them shot down by our numerous opponents, and we weren't going to defend them with alliance assets). Of course, there were some exceptions.
As Weaslior has said (and I have iterated a few times now), it just WASN'T possible for the NC to cartel anything, because "the NC" is a group of alliance, those alliances had groups of corps, and (in our case) the corp was who controlled the technetium - not the NC, not the alliance.
And you know how many corps there were in the NC? ****ing buttloads. Cartel that.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:25:00 -
[1508]
So, people invested on Technetium on the premise NC acted like a centralized alliance like BoB did with Dysprosium and similar?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Lieutenant Obvious
Lobster Sticks To Magnet
|
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:27:00 -
[1509]
If they did, then they invested/speculated on bad info/assumptions. End result is the same, however, and the upshot is that there should be no fear anything will change now - except that MAYBE the new guys could actually cartel which would make all of us much happier.
Well, if they figure out how not to be ******ed at selling moon mins in gigantic, single lumps.
As an FYI, most of my old corp's moon goo was sold to BUY orders also. I once convinced them to let me proxy and actually market it in SELL orders (and hold off for the midweek price increase), but that was for a relatively short time as I became inactive a few months from that point. They didn't care how much it was, where in the weekly cycle it was, etc. They just wanted the isk. Immediately. Usually for that next replenishment of geddons/apocs/guardians/sabres/etc or the next titan.
|
TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:39:00 -
[1510]
Damn - Already rebounding.
Never got as low as I was hoping for...
Time to cheer for it to skyrocket again I guess...
BIG Lottery |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:36:00 -
[1511]
Originally by: TornSoul Damn - Already rebounding.
Never got as low as I was hoping for...
Time to cheer for it to skyrocket again I guess...
Let me guess, it started rising once the overall market liquidity (read: strong investors) moved out of PLEXes?
Because that's what happens in RL too, when a market is not seen as very profitable, you see its liquidity drop.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Terrible Karma
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:32:00 -
[1512]
Any news / speculation on Tc? Seems like CCP have their hands full right now with all the rage so perhaps Tc has another 6 months to a year till the Patch of Doom(TM) arrives. Still, a lot of players have said they're canceling accounts and I wonder if there will be unexpected wider market implications. IIRC Tc demand is well over supply though I can't recall the actual percentage. It seems unlikely demand would fall below supply, but is most demand generated from 0.0 fights or just average player churn?
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:54:00 -
[1513]
The "ragequit" counts are not much higher than normal seasonal fluctuations. And ragequitters might very well give away their possessions to others. So actually, demand could even go up because of it.
Too many variables to tell for sure. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
|
Wabs
|
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:47:00 -
[1514]
550k stacks.... sigh... *Wabs would like to see it go up again now...
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:03:00 -
[1515]
Looks like there is some serious pressure, pushing the prices down heavily.
We just saw buy orders for 94k getting filled, and sell orders of more than 800k units.
If that is market manipulation or original oversupply/underdemand remains to be seen.
It looks like we won't see top prices soon again. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:30:00 -
[1516]
Nice panics are good for business |
Elise DarkStar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:52:00 -
[1517]
Edited by: Elise DarkStar on 08/07/2011 12:53:22 I'm an optimist, I think this is the final slumpglut that I was expecting to occur closer to 150k pu. The true believers who hold on now will reap the final pre-nerf reward.
Edit: I should disclose that I am not holding tech right now, so despite my big opinion I have better bets going. Even if I am right about tech, I think it will be a while before people see their payday. |
Terrible Karma
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 01:09:00 -
[1518]
Originally by: Akita T Nice panics are good for business
You know it's odd. If it was just a panic AND Tc was as much of a bottleneck as we think then prices should be rising for the end products since production has slowed due to panic. It's not like we had stockpiles of Tc to go through. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 11:14:00 -
[1519]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/07/2011 11:17:24
Originally by: Terrible Karma
Originally by: Akita T Nice panics are good for business
You know it's odd. If it was just a panic AND Tc was as much of a bottleneck as we think then prices should be rising for the end products since production has slowed due to panic. It's not like we had stockpiles of Tc to go through.
Actually, yes, we did have HUGE stockpiles, that was the only reason the price of tech hasn't shot up like crazy immediately after the Dominion patch and instead it slowly creeped upwards. And we still have serious stockpiles (smaller than those in December 2009, but still noticeable), with current stockpilers being the main sellers in a time of "it will almost certainly be nerfed, and I'm afraid it will happen before I can unload my piles at a high price" type of panic, like the one happening right now. I'm not saying the panic is not justified, because it just might be - CCP could (at least theoretically) end up rejiggering (nerfing) Technetium before the stockpiles actually do run out (so before Tech has a chance to reach truly "Monopolesque" levels of pricing).
P.S. Anyway, in this particular type of panic, end product prices go lower, not higher. |
Terrible Karma
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:00:00 -
[1520]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 09/07/2011 11:17:24
Originally by: Terrible Karma
Originally by: Akita T Nice panics are good for business
You know it's odd. If it was just a panic AND Tc was as much of a bottleneck as we think then prices should be rising for the end products since production has slowed due to panic. It's not like we had stockpiles of Tc to go through.
Actually, yes, we did have HUGE stockpiles, that was the only reason the price of tech hasn't shot up like crazy immediately after the Dominion patch and instead it slowly creeped upwards. And we still have serious stockpiles (smaller than those in December 2009, but still noticeable), with current stockpilers being the main sellers in a time of "it will almost certainly be nerfed, and I'm afraid it will happen before I can unload my piles at a high price" type of panic, like the one happening right now. I'm not saying the panic is not justified, because it just might be - CCP could (at least theoretically) end up rejiggering (nerfing) Technetium before the stockpiles actually do run out (so before Tech has a chance to reach truly "Monopolesque" levels of pricing).
P.S. Anyway, in this particular type of panic, end product prices go lower, not higher.
Didn't the CCP economist say they looked into stockpiling and there was no Tc related stockpiling during fanfest?! What evidence are you looking at to say there are large stocks? I'm not setup to do the calculations quickly, but what do your #'s say when you plug them into the calc's you did at the beginning of this tread? If you're right we should see that supply of the Tc end products is much larger than the maximum steady state Tc production. |
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:42:00 -
[1521]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/07/2011 02:43:00
Originally by: Terrible Karma Didn't the CCP economist say they looked into stockpiling and there was no Tc related stockpiling during fanfest?!
This is what was actually said. "Is anybody hoarding it trying to cash on it ? We have not seen that, but people are clever about doing so." "There's nothing in the data saying anything unusual is going on. Just trades between people. We do not see anyone stock it up."
Which might as well be perfectly true - nobody is "stocking it up", more than is extracted is being consumed, and people might slowly release previously available stockpiles to market. Nothing was said about pre-existing stockpiles levels however, from long before Dominion.
Quote: What evidence are you looking at to say there are large stocks? I'm not setup to do the calculations quickly, but what do your #'s say when you plug them into the calc's you did at the beginning of this tread? If you're right we should see that supply of the Tc end products is much larger than the maximum steady state Tc production.
Guesstimates at quantity of Technetium used up compared to quantity of Technetium being extracted put the drain on pre-existing stockpiles at anywhere between 50k and 200k units per day. But that's now, and no idea how much higher (or lower) that drain was before prices settled (especially in the time right after Dominion). Of course, those are just guesstimates, so, meh. Could be even less, could be a lot more. I still don't know the EXACT total Technetium moon count, even that one is a guesstimate with a pretty wide possible range. And estimating the usage rate is also quite difficult. However, we had at least two whole years in which the Technetium was valuable enough to be mostly extracted (well, a year and a half or a bit less, the introduction of alchemy relegated it from spot #3 to spot #5 in sales price), but not needed in large enough quantities to be a supply problem - which means we could be looking at anywhere between 100 mil to 350 mil Tech units in distributed stockpiles across the entire game population at the moment Dominion rolled in. Considering I had nearly 7 mil Tech when Dominion hit, and I was by far not the largest holder, 100 mil doesn't sound at all far-fetched, quite the opposite. 350 mil might be a bit much, but it would have been possible. But again, guesstimates galore. Too many variables to know for sure. Stockpiles could have been much lower, or they could have been noticeably higher. I certainly don't know for sure.
All of this could mean the tech stockpiles could end up exhausted after Dominion in anything between a year and a half (which would be right about now) to 20 years (which would be so distant as to not be worth mentioning). But the uncertainty in both of those figures before makes this wildly inaccurate.
What is worth mentioning is that the higher the Tech prices went, the less of the stockpiles were actually being used up, which on one hand kept the price from spiking too fast, but on the other hand made the problem look far less bad compared to how it actually was in terms of raw production.
Anybody gambling in Technetium now (because it is a gamble at this point, much more so than it was when Dominion hit) is betting against two big separate things - the time until CCP does something against Technetium's scarcity and high price (and to a lesser degree, the magnitude of the change) and on the size of the existing stockpiles (so how long until prices have no choice but to radically go up).
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 07:07:00 -
[1522]
Yeah, plus right now there are much more promising markets than Tech.
It'd be fun if someone could scavenge the year old posts with me and Anakienine discussing about the future (now current) Tech prices. |
Herman Klaus
Caldari Touched By Klaus
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:15:00 -
[1523]
Well i'm not saying names (it's clear by buying a unit) but someone is doing their best to push it down. Dumping stockpiles at 96k when the next price is 103k.
How long will that sit there for? It's still a highly demanded item. Only a week or so back someone put a B/O for millions of units at 120k. DIdn't even buy up from the sell orders. Just paid everyone below 120k. |
Terrible Karma
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 16:07:00 -
[1524]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Yeah, plus right now there are much more promising markets than Tech.
It'd be fun if someone could scavenge the year old posts with me and Anakienine discussing about the future (now current) Tech prices.
What markets would those be? When you start a well sourced thread like this one I'll believe it. |
AnakieNine
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 05:23:00 -
[1525]
Edited by: AnakieNine on 11/07/2011 05:24:29
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Yeah, plus right now there are much more promising markets than Tech.
It'd be fun if someone could scavenge the year old posts with me and Anakienine discussing about the future (now current) Tech prices.
Did someone say my name. I was only talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago about that thread. I mentioned I had re-read it and was happy with how things apply today.
It is/was pretty spot on.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:05:00 -
[1526]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 11/07/2011 07:06:01
Originally by: AnakieNine
Did someone say my name. Hi VV.
A couple of weeks ago I was talking to a friend about that thread. I mentioned I had just re-read it and was happy with how things applied today.
It is/was pretty spot on. I don't actively play anymore and allowed 11 of my 13 accounts to go idle. The remaining 2 Only really get used to collect rare items off the markets along with and the occasional long term sell/buy.
Edit) What the hell! For those that want to go down memory lane. :) First the Nanotransistors thread which latter moved over to the Technetium
Hello, AnakieNine. It was fun times, expecially that forum flirting to make the prices go where you wanted
I have just viewed those old threads, that indirectly sent back to my RL analysis thread, where there was that graph showing Tech ceiling at 120k so many months ahead of the time...
At the same time, those flaming me for Technical Analysis (which in this case I did not even use):
Quote:
I'm still not bullish about tech in the 80k+ range
Hell, yeah
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
AnakieNine
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 17:01:00 -
[1527]
Yes it was fun times I normally never go public with anything. A smart trader will tell you that you make more by keeping it to yourself and milking it for what it is worth. It can take longer but finding the right item to work is also time consuming.
This time however I was sick of holding a large amount of techn product (up to 750b) and felt it would be the right time to see how much public opinion and knowledge could effect market. Both positive and negative.
I also wanted to give players willing to take a bit of notice some insight into how a largish eve-trader watches the markets and the simple things that they take notice of. Nothing to complex. I think that thread helped increase the tech chain 10-15k but in the end it also delayed the future increases while the market stalled and slightly dropped to keep closer to equilibrium.
I've always hoped eve would have more players that would look at manipulating other items in eve. When I played heavily I got sick of being one of the few aggressive players that enjoyed buying out various items in Jita and push them up 15%-40%. Every 2-3 days I would buyout another item in the 2-20b+ range and work it for a week to maintain a higher price. At a peak I was rotating around 50 items at a time for periods of 1-6 months. It was really just about picking the right items at the right time, buying it out knowing it was going up anyway, and holding stock until the price stabilized and was able to handle a slow sell off without crashing the price. Note) Never buy more than 1, sometimes 2 days worth of Jita's stock. It almost always ends up in frustration and less than optimum profits.
I haven't watched the tech market very close lately. It does seems to be at one of those interesting times. The new moon holders don't know how to sell their product effectively. Normally having less producers/sellers should increase the price however selling in massive batches that aren't updated often will always cause a downward push until that blocking player is out of stock or people stop underbidding them. If I was still heavily playing the tech market I would be watching it closely. When (If) those batches disappear and can't be immediately replaced there will be a nice spike. Not unlike the fullerides market in the last few days. That rarely updated 22m unit order pushed the price down nicely before it ran out and resulted in an equally nice 15% increase. It doesn't sound like much but for players with large wallets, the large market value makes the isk returns worthwhile.
|
raukosen
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 17:35:00 -
[1528]
You had 750bn just in tech? Did you get that rich just from trading, or from production as well?
|
Black Madness
Minmatar Natural Born Builders United Corporations Of Modern Eve
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:27:00 -
[1529]
Originally by: raukosen You had 750bn just in tech? Did you get that rich just from trading, or from production as well?
He's that rich from doing <insert_whatever_one_can_do_in_eve> here. -----------------------------------------
We Buy Bulk Minerals: http://goo.gl/PgDGV
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:44:00 -
[1530]
Originally by: raukosen You had 750bn just in tech? Did you get that rich just from trading, or from production as well?
He used to own Domain.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 56 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |