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Vaclav Varada
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Posted - 2009.11.03 00:20:00 -
[1]
I have come up with a simple solution to this so-called ninja salvager issue that requires no change to the game system whatsoever.
It's really so simple, you wish you would have thought of it yourself.
I happened to find someone near the system I was in who was going on about some poor chap whose mission he just crashed. I chatted with him a bit and made him an offer to come to my missions and clean up my mess, keeping the salvage for himself and paying me a fee. We spent some time discussing the particulars of the fee, until we finally settled on flat fee per mission, paid up front. So whenever I am missioning, I contact him, if he is nearby and interested, he sends me the money, I invite him to gang, and proceed to mission, giving him all the info he needs. What I am charging him for is the specific information of when and where the wrecks will be created. This is convenient for him, saving him time to scan down random mission runners, and it makes me some extra money.
"Wait, what if he just scans you down and takes your wrecks?"
He can already scan me down and start salvaging. If he didn't pay me for the info, I would stop providing it, and nothing would change.
"Wait, what if you take his fee, but don't give him the info?"
I could do that, but then I wouldn't be able to collect fees from him in the future. And he could still can me down, and would probably aggressively do so after this.
"Wouldn't you make more money if you salvaged the items yourself?"
Perhaps I would make more ISK, but considering that I no longer have to worry about being "ninja'd," get my missions in quicker, thereby getting faction items quicker, it all works out. We also worked on the fee so we both benefit.
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Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.03 00:29:00 -
[2]
Sounds like a good solution to me.
I still would like mission space be FFA.
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.11.03 03:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 03:15:03 Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 03:13:33 That only works if the missioner "honors" the transaction. As such there are no mechanisms to provide even a modi****of compliance. Nothing worse than paying for salvage/looting rights and having the missioner boot you out of fleet and gain aggro when you loot a can just a second after you're booted.
If you're saying that he's paying just to have you invite him to a mission and salvage, I'd have to ask why he's paying you? Takes me 3 minutes to find a missioner. While I'm warping and bookmarking that site I'm also looking for another mission site. In 10 - 15 minutes I have 4 sites, all bookmarked and ready to be harvested. Why pay for what is clearly available for free? Now, for loot rights...yeah, I'd pay. Even then with a little extra effort to demoralize a missioner from salvaging/looting he'll usually take off, complete the mission and the loot is mine anyway.
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.03 03:48:00 -
[4]
If he's found a social contract that is beneficial to both parties, good for him. Eve is built on things like this, and its a lot better than listening to another whine.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.03 04:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Domoso Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 03:15:03 Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 03:13:33 That only works if the missioner "honors" the transaction. As such there are no mechanisms to provide even a modi****of compliance. Nothing worse than paying for salvage/looting rights and having the missioner boot you out of fleet and gain aggro when you loot a can just a second after you're booted.
If you're saying that he's paying just to have you invite him to a mission and salvage, I'd have to ask why he's paying you? Takes me 3 minutes to find a missioner. While I'm warping and bookmarking that site I'm also looking for another mission site. In 10 - 15 minutes I have 4 sites, all bookmarked and ready to be harvested. Why pay for what is clearly available for free? Now, for loot rights...yeah, I'd pay. Even then with a little extra effort to demoralize a missioner from salvaging/looting he'll usually take off, complete the mission and the loot is mine anyway.
Depends on the ninja. If the ninja has friends, he can bring them in, salvage/loot EVERYTHING, and then bring in a high-alpha battleship to take the bounties. They can then take down your ship name, add you to addressbook, and then repeat this over and over every time you try to run a mission.
ahem. That's what SN would do anyway. You might be safe doing this to NPC corp ninjas.
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Giuseppi Verdi
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Posted - 2009.11.03 07:44:00 -
[6]
As an occasional ninja salvager, this makes sense and could potentially be helpful for both parties. Of course, this plan relies on people actually talking to each other, which is a big no-no for many players, at least when lvl 4 missioning.
I'm sure many ninjas would simply laugh and ignore you, but there is at least one person (me) who would gladly take up such an offer. Since I seem to be extremely honest (in game, of course) in comparison to the average EVE player, I wonder if I am in the minority.... |
Harris
The Darkness Within
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Posted - 2009.11.03 07:49:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Harris on 03/11/2009 07:51:38 Would be a nice deal if it could be reliably upheld.
Personally I don't have a massive problem with someone salvaging my missions, I have a massive problem if they don't ask though. When they don't, I cut off my nose to spite my face by destroying the wrecks before they can get to them.
I spend a fair amount of time doing the salvaging myself when I could be getting on with another mission, so I reckon it breaks even in the end - not asking if they can salvage is just plain rude though.
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Myleena
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Posted - 2009.11.03 08:11:00 -
[8]
I usually charge the mission runner a fee not to salvage his wrecks.
Either way it's these kind of solutions that the game was designed to promote.
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Drakkan Koran
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Posted - 2009.11.03 10:26:00 -
[9]
ITT: Mission Runner comes up with ingenious solution to ninjas, work with a buddy!
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Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.03 10:38:00 -
[10]
To those that are saying that it'd be a problem with trust, I don't really see how.
The amount being payed would be rather small for each mission. The only way that it could be reasonably profitable for EITHER party, would be for a continous stream of missions. So if one person goes back on their word once, the amount of money that's lost in the deal is pretty low --------------------------------------------
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.11.03 12:30:00 -
[11]
The "easy" solution is to simply blow the wrecks up the second you see a ninja salvager.
Their whole goal is to make isk off you. ****ing you off is just a happy bonus for most of them.
So if you remove their isk making potential, they'll leave you alone.
It may take a mission or two for them to get the idea, but it works.
EVERY single time a salvager has scanned me down, this has been a solution.
Then in the future if they scan you out, they'll just leave cause they know you'll blow the wrecks up.
Simple.
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Raelyf
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.11.03 12:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dharh
I still would like mission space be FFA.
Then start missioning in lowsec.
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Vaclav Varada
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Posted - 2009.11.03 13:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shade Millith To those that are saying that it'd be a problem with trust, I don't really see how.
The amount being payed would be rather small for each mission. The only way that it could be reasonably profitable for EITHER party, would be for a continous stream of missions. So if one person goes back on their word once, the amount of money that's lost in the deal is pretty low
Thank you. This is precisely the logic behind our arrangement. As far as it not being worth it for the salvager, I am not sure if my partner would agree with you. While scanning down random runners isn't hard, he will often arrive too late or too early, or their will already be a salvager at the site (ninja, alt or friend). Of course, he is in the NPC corp, he likes to work alone, and he salvages for the money, not for griefing. On the other hand, I don't think our little arrangement has stopped him from "ninjaing" other people's mission. After all, I'm not on all the time, and even when I am, he needs something to do if I'm busy.
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Vaclav Varada
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Posted - 2009.11.03 13:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Myleena I usually charge the mission runner a fee not to salvage his wrecks.
Either way it's these kind of solutions that the game was designed to promote.
That does nothing to prevent other salvagers from coming in, so your little extortion fee doesn't make much sense from my point of view. With my arrangement, he gets there and gets to work before anyone else shows up. We both benefit.
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.11.03 15:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 15:43:41 I've no problem paying for "rights" if the mechanism were in place. However, I've attempted the "on good faith" purchase of rights. As many times as it works there are twice as many times when the missioner boots you out of the fleet revoking your rights to loot. And even in the cases the missioner was true to his word one is always aware that at any moment he could change his mind. As it stands now there are not "rights" to salvage. So, why should I pay for the privilege I already have? And what about another salvager coming into the mission and now "stealing" paid for salvage. There's no guarantee. So why front the money in the first place. Face it, there is no reliable way to do this. And so, there is no reason to pay a missioner.
If the missioner wants to spite himself and me by destroying the wrecks, fine. I've usually got 3 - 4 other sites bookmarked. It does nothing to deter me. I don't go all emo. I right click the next bookmark and warp to it usually after I've provoked the missioner to kill all his wrecks.
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Boomershoot
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.03 15:47:00 -
[16]
Excuse me, WHAT?
i don't need to pay to take stuff that isn't yours ________________________________________ i'd gladly abuse [hr] if CCP implemented it ________________________________________
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Erick Odin
Amarr UNIX ALLSTARS
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Posted - 2009.11.03 17:01:00 -
[17]
Yeah it's kinda DUH for an actual salvager, but alot of these guys are just looking for tears to blog or easy kills in high sec with their corporate blob.
How did these guys get the Ninja label anyway? It implies some sort of stealth or skill. They really are just garbage pickers - not that i have any problem with that (seinfeld voice). So yeah, it would work for an actual salvager, but not a griefer...
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Zeek CEO
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Posted - 2009.11.03 17:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Zeek CEO on 03/11/2009 17:02:11
Originally by: Cors Their whole goal is to make isk off you. ****ing you off is just a happy bonus for most of them.
You are very sadly mistaken.
-edit- Default character not being default character FTW.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.03 17:14:00 -
[19]
When just grinding standings, I always put a call into local for anyone that wants to loot/salvage.
KB KB
Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. |
Wiley Peterson
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Posted - 2009.11.03 18:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Wiley Peterson on 03/11/2009 18:17:56
Originally by: Domoso Edited by: Domoso on 03/11/2009 15:43:41 I've no problem paying for "rights" if the mechanism were in place. However, I've attempted the "on good faith" purchase of rights. As many times as it works there are twice as many times when the missioner boots you out of the fleet revoking your rights to loot. And even in the cases the missioner was true to his word one is always aware that at any moment he could change his mind. As it stands now there are not "rights" to salvage. So, why should I pay for the privilege I already have? And what about another salvager coming into the mission and now "stealing" paid for salvage. There's no guarantee. So why front the money in the first place. Face it, there is no reliable way to do this. And so, there is no reason to pay a missioner.
If the missioner wants to spite himself and me by destroying the wrecks, fine. I've usually got 3 - 4 other sites bookmarked. It does nothing to deter me. I don't go all emo. I right click the next bookmark and warp to it usually after I've provoked the missioner to kill all his wrecks.
is it that easy?
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Bodrul
Caldari Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2009.11.03 18:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: KaarBaak
When just grinding standings, I always put a call into local for anyone that wants to loot/salvage.
KB
same here most the time no one even comes :(
........ 400+ Games to Play for Free while mining or waiting during down time, Classics from Helicopter to Pong X bound |
Cir Loin
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Posted - 2009.11.03 18:59:00 -
[22]
I can't believe someone would pay for what they can easily get for free, but if it's working, great-- of course, someone might come in and steal the salvage from your salvage buddy. Do you offer a refund if that happens? Cause I'd sure want one.
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lolette
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Posted - 2009.11.03 19:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: lolette on 03/11/2009 19:21:32 charging for salvage rights isnt a bad idea but is slightly flawed as has already been stated,
i gave up charging as i had no takers, in the end after i have completed the mission and looted most the wrecks i just shout on local about free salvage, someone always wants it, i fleet them and let them have the salvage now, shocking part was about 40% of the salvagers that have turned up at different missions have actually been honest enough to give me some of the spoils from what they salvaged, 1 actually donated 10mil isk back to me for it.
i dont expect anything in return but gifts like this make this game seem less harsh at times. although the harshness is alot of fun and think this game wouldnt be the same without these little episodes to keep you on your toes. otherwise mission grinding wouold be so dull.
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Garbad theWeak
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Posted - 2009.11.03 19:53:00 -
[24]
The solution to ninja salvagers is simple -- blow up your wrecks as soon as someone scans you down. They may stick around for a minute or two, but once they see that you have no intention of letting them have free loot they will leave. Then collect all future wrecks for yourself.
Its that easy.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2009.11.03 20:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vaclav Varada It's really so simple, you wish you would have thought of it yourself.
You sir, win eve for today! U are the living proof of the adapt or die attitude that all players in this game should have! ________________________________________________
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.11.03 21:08:00 -
[26]
+10 internets for the catchy title. Nice one. Nuff said really...
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.11.04 12:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Wiley Peterson
is it that easy?
Yes. When all scanning skills are at lvl4, it's that easy. Because while I'm warping to a site, I'm continuing my scans. While I'm going around to wrecks, I'm continuing my scans. Ninja salvage does not require visual sight of the wreck. All I need do is observe my overview/target locks to know when I'm in range and then activate my salvagers. After I've scanned down enough sites, more than I can get to before those missions are ended or salvaged, I can then concentrate on salvaging the present site. When it's done, move to the next, rinse & repeat.
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Wacktopia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.04 12:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dharh I still would like mission space be FFA.
So, when you're missioning, a gang can warp in and gank you instead of just ninja salvaging? Wow.
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Brutalinator
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Posted - 2009.11.05 14:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Brutalinator on 05/11/2009 14:24:53 Well I happen to have too high sec status I don't really care about any more, and plenty of cheap ass gankboats so if I see a ninja, enter gankboats and if that doesn't work I'll pretend to leave the mission only to warp in on my cloaked tengu and wait for a can to get emptied. Lousy dps maybe, but enough juice to beat any ninja...
That said, I have nothing against ninjas, it's THE SANDBOX after all :) and you've gotta love those ninjas complaining about pesky mission runners trying to ruin their day by destroying wrecks or aggroing :)
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