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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 40 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2568
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:57:00 -
[601] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:1.1 mechanics are an absolute joke, they swing it too far back in favour of giant alliances
Exponential costs for allies is just pants-on-head ********, especially when it can be small 40 man corps facing an aggressor with a thousand or more pilots.
There absolutely must be some form of balance for those types of edge cases - you were quick enough to rush out a balance fix when fifty corps jumped on as allies to interdict goonies in hisec, after all.
LOL at it costing 10 trillion isk / $300,000 for the allies against goonswarm. Pathetic. Who allowed that change to go through? Couldn't you have at least done something partway sensible like cap the ally costs so that bringing on extra allies after X corps would only be a fixed amount each time (e.g. 250m for each new ally after the 20th)? perhaps the 'defenders' should consider how much those random 3-man tax dodging corps are actually contributing to the 'defense' and base their decisions to accept assistance on that
Perhaps an aggressor against goonswarm should be charged only for the couple of dozen pilots you have in empire (as targets) rather than being billed for the full 9000.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1206
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 19:31:00 -
[602] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Perhaps an aggressor against goonswarm should be charged only for the couple of dozen pilots you have in empire (as targets) rather than being billed for the full 9000.
they're not billed for the full 9000 a rogue goon |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1206
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:35:00 -
[603] - Quote
also note the irony of you saying that aggressors should be billed only for the number of members in a given alliance active in empire while acting like you have the weight of our entire alliance coming down on you
make up your mind a rogue goon |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2568
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Posted - 2012.06.28 22:48:00 -
[604] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:also note the irony of you saying that aggressors should be billed only for the number of members in a given alliance active in empire while acting like you have the weight of our entire alliance coming down on you make up your mind
I really isn't my fault if a 9000 man entity declares a war and then sends a couple of dozen people to fight it. I have to assume it was a serious declaration of war and treat it accordingly - and I can't honestly see how CCP developers can be expected to code a game mechanic that is pased around the notion of "goon joke decs" rather than simply counting heads and reaching a balanced escalator charge for everyone concerned.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
112
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Posted - 2012.06.28 23:16:00 -
[605] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:1.1 mechanics are an absolute joke, they swing it too far back in favour of giant alliances
Exponential costs for allies is just pants-on-head ********, especially when it can be small 40 man corps facing an aggressor with a thousand or more pilots.
There absolutely must be some form of balance for those types of edge cases - you were quick enough to rush out a balance fix when fifty corps jumped on as allies to interdict goonies in hisec, after all.
LOL at it costing 10 trillion isk / $300,000 for the allies against goonswarm. Pathetic. Who allowed that change to go through? Couldn't you have at least done something partway sensible like cap the ally costs so that bringing on extra allies after X corps would only be a fixed amount each time (e.g. 250m for each new ally after the 20th)? perhaps the 'defenders' should consider how much those random 3-man tax dodging corps are actually contributing to the 'defense' and base their decisions to accept assistance on that
Oh please, there is simply no defending a mechanic that, when rushed out, suddenly drops a ten trillion isk ally bill on a rather interesting bit of ~emergent gameplay~ effectively shutting it down instantly and preventing anything like it ever happening again. They should have taken the time to work out how to properly balance it, not just stamp it out. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
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Posted - 2012.06.29 03:54:00 -
[606] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh please, there is simply no defending a mechanic that, when rushed out, suddenly drops a ten trillion isk ally bill on a rather interesting bit of ~emergent gameplay~ effectively shutting it down instantly and preventing anything like it ever happening again. They should have taken the time to work out how to properly balance it, not just stamp it out.
I suppose the intent is for a defending group to be more selective about who they accept assistance from instead of simply giving out free rides to everyone?
I mean really I don't care either way but the bleating about Goonswarm apparently having the ability to batphone CCP to make a change like this is ~hilarious~ but in the end it's all the same if three serious hisec PvP groups use the ally mechanic to wardec us or if the same three corps use the mechanic alongside 30 scrubs in tax dodging corps a rogue goon |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2568
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Posted - 2012.06.29 12:53:00 -
[607] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote: I suppose the intent is for a defending group to be more selective about who they accept assistance from instead of simply giving out free rides to everyone?
Thats social consequences for you Richard Desturned. If you are in an unpopular organization making wardecs is supposed to be a risky business. At least that was the stated intent of the 1.0 devblog. But 1.1 removes social consequences from the largest alliances in the game by rendering the scale of defensive allying null by introduction of a ridiculous exponential cost multiplier. At the edge case of 9000 vs 100 then nobody is going to be selective - you need to at a couple of hundred allies before you are even close to parity in on the books numbers.
If CCP were to go on record with the admission it can't balance competitive game mechanics where the largest entities of the game are concerned then :shrug: really - thats would be a pretty damning admission.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:38:00 -
[608] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Thats social consequences for you Richard Desturned. If you are in an unpopular organization making wardecs is supposed to be a risky business. At least that was the stated intent of the 1.0 devblog. But 1.1 removes social consequences from the largest alliances in the game by rendering the scale of defensive allying null by introduction of a ridiculous exponential cost multiplier. At the edge case of 9000 vs 100 then nobody is going to be selective - you need to at a couple of hundred allies before you are even close to parity in on the books numbers.
If CCP were to go on record with the admission it can't balance competitive game mechanics where the largest entities of the game are concerned then :shrug: really - thats would be a pretty damning admission.
no, humor me, how much have corps like "Sons of Michael," "The Blacklist LTd," "Spontaneous Castigation," "Tremendous Fail Inc.," "Dukes of Noobs," "C.I.A. NRDS," "We help Noobs" and the other one-man tax dodging corps in your "alliance" contributed, compared to, say, Moar Tears and Double Tap? I mean you could literally boil down your entire "defense" to 3 groups and you'd still have all of those random Ibises and Badgers to brag about killing.
oh btw a bunch of the corps in your "defense" are closed, lol a rogue goon |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2568
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:57:00 -
[609] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Thats social consequences for you Richard Desturned. If you are in an unpopular organization making wardecs is supposed to be a risky business. At least that was the stated intent of the 1.0 devblog. But 1.1 removes social consequences from the largest alliances in the game by rendering the scale of defensive allying null by introduction of a ridiculous exponential cost multiplier. At the edge case of 9000 vs 100 then nobody is going to be selective - you need to at a couple of hundred allies before you are even close to parity in on the books numbers.
If CCP were to go on record with the admission it can't balance competitive game mechanics where the largest entities of the game are concerned then :shrug: really - thats would be a pretty damning admission. no, humor me, how much have corps like "Sons of Michael," "The Blacklist LTd," "Spontaneous Castigation," "Tremendous Fail Inc.," "Dukes of Noobs," "C.I.A. NRDS," "We help Noobs" and the other one-man tax dodging corps in your "alliance" contributed, compared to, say, Moar Tears and Double Tap? I mean you could literally boil down your entire "defense" to 3 groups and you'd still have all of those random Ibises and Badgers to brag about killing. oh btw a bunch of the corps in your "defense" are closed, lol edit: seriously when you can have 6 "quality" allies for the less than the price of a t2 fit battleship every other week i don't see why you're complaining
Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:03:00 -
[610] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet.
unless you find an ally with 9000 members, in which case, well, it's free a rogue goon |
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2570
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Posted - 2012.06.29 16:38:00 -
[611] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet. unless you find an ally with 9000 members, in which case, well, it's free
But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 16:52:00 -
[612] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?
No, that's the intent of the game as a whole. Why shouldn't you have an advantage if you can get 9000 dudes (we don't actually have 9000 dudes, we have maybe 5000 and that's being optimistic) into one alliance under a common command structure and solid in-game and out-of-game communication? a rogue goon |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2570
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 17:32:00 -
[613] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?
No, that's the intent of the game as a whole. Why shouldn't you have an advantage if you can get 9000 dudes (we don't actually have 9000 dudes, we have maybe 5000 and that's being optimistic) into one alliance under a common command structure and solid in-game and out-of-game communication?
Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare? The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1207
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 21:27:00 -
[614] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare?
You're missing the point entirely. You know full well that the weight of our "9000 man alliance" will never bear down on you. And like I've already said, if you trimmed your "defensive coalition" (it's not a coalition no matter how much you say it is) down to the top six, it wouldn't make a difference because the rest of that "coalition" consists of closed corps, one-man tax havens and coattail riders who kill a couple of Ibises and declare victory. a rogue goon |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
156
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Posted - 2012.06.30 00:25:00 -
[615] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare?
Because Empire space is designed for and has always been intended to be for noobs only. And the hyper-casual, I suppose I can grant that as well.
Once you know how to play, gtfo of rainbow unicorn land where people still struggle to find stargates. Get out of the theme park and go play in the sand. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Andrew Keiran
MORIA INDUSTRIES
0
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Posted - 2012.07.02 21:06:00 -
[616] - Quote
/deleted/ |
Tug McLub
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.06 01:51:00 -
[617] - Quote
10,20,40,80m for allys? Really? Why dont you make it cost like Decs cost, 10 m isnt ****.
This game is going to the nubs |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
27
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Posted - 2012.07.10 15:20:00 -
[618] - Quote
The wardec and alliance system suffers from a bit of an identity crisis. It wants to be too many things while contradicting its motivation.
If a big alliance is pissing off enough people that 80% of the player base wants to declare massive war against them and it takes 100 allies of smaller corporations to equal the larger alliance numbers, then so what. Why is that a problem?
These fragmented allies still need to coordinate resources and deal with internal politics to such a degree that it could completely work against them. Let that skill set be the determining factor of success.
Take the example people keep citing here about the massive war with tonnes of allies against the Goons. Now, I like the Goons, but they started this "emergent gameplay" nonsense propping up Hulkageddon indefinitely, kept shooting their mouthes off, keept saying how "no one wants risk and no PVP" and blah blah blah, and then finally there was "do something about it".
So they did, people got together and declared war and got all the allies they can muster... now, all of a sudden, there is something wrong with that.
Shut the f@ck up.
The tiered alliance fees are stupid, plain and simple.
CCP just needs to remember what happened a while back when they tried to cover too many bases and lost their way, same thing is happening here. Dont try to cover all the bad things that may happen, especially if those things are a natural.
It REALLY needs a fresh look from the ground up and needs to have some balls attached to it. Get an expert already or some outside advice, its just not working. Primary Test Subject |
Grojar Flesp
SQS Group
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 20:18:00 -
[619] - Quote
Quick question, thought to look up the new skill on evelopedia, wasn't there.
Found out it was a stub, so could somebody please update something so that the stub is up to date again?
Perhaps rattle a server, jiggle with an utp cable, you know, standard ITIL service management please |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2758
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Posted - 2012.09.05 11:37:00 -
[620] - Quote
So (just curious really) its been a few months now. Is anyone currently enjoying the Inferno 1.1 wardec system in game?
If so could you take a moment to explain the good things about it and how you've found its enhanced your enjoyment of Eve Online?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
312
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Posted - 2012.09.05 13:37:00 -
[621] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: So (just curious really) its been a few months now. Is anyone currently enjoying the Inferno 1.1 wardec system in game?
If so could you take a moment to explain the good things about it and how you've found its enhanced your enjoyment of Eve Online?
Also, is there data available on pre and post Inferno wardec kills? In other words, is this new wardec system facilitating more death and destruction? Was the old system better at enabling combat with war targets? Etc.
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