Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Falconwraith
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 17:39:00 -
[1]
Really dead horse, but a thought came to mind and can't help but wonder.
Since it's been a year since they disabled this 'feature' (they used to promote the fact you could do it as a selling point). I can't help but wonder if it had the positive impact they had hoped, or if the opposite. I know for myself when it happened I had stopped re upping my alts I was training up with this technique and only kept 1 account. before the changed I regularly keep 1 main and 2 alts training as I had started them on their own account somewhere around '08. Also a friend or two I had joined were doing this as well and stopped (1 quit, 1 just keep the main account) as initial training is tedious for multiple accounts and expensive without this old feature. To me it seemed kind of a silly move at the time, as it seemed most who did this probably wouldn't of had the other accounts at all without it (thus they'd lose money).
So i wonder now if this had any positive impact aside from the obvious that it was sort of an 'exploit' of the account mechanics.
|
Zartanic
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 17:42:00 -
[2]
Only CCP know the answer, all else is speculation biased towards a persons stand point on it. So yes, its a dead horse.
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 17:45:00 -
[3]
My care bear magic 8-ball says: It is certain.
|
salabeth
Caldari Kinky Killing Kleptomaniacs BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 17:51:00 -
[4]
CCP has never been known for admitting rather something was a mistake.. So we will never know.. dead horse is dead.
|
Falconwraith
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 18:03:00 -
[5]
I was just kind of curious if any dev would tell us if having this disabled and keeping it disabled is truly for the better. Wasn't for sure expecting an answer, but I know with a year in the books they'd know if it's more profitable to allow it or not. If it was I don't see why they wouldn't allow it. But as most of you have said odds are they'll never reply, and it's just a dead horse.
|
Aunt margret
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 18:26:00 -
[6]
I think that once they'd allowed you to build nice fat skill pointed alt's, they probally figured that the average addicted mmo player would have a problem letting them go
Chances are given that mindset, most were either kept, or the character traded away for isk to those willing to pay for them.
You'd be a fool not to think ccp knew what they were doing from the off, a calculated gamble, one stacked in their favour... mmo players have a 'hard' time letting go.
A simple fix #bug# that they left alone for 4-5 years costing them millions, heh
|
Breaker77
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 18:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Falconwraith but I know with a year in the books they'd know if it's more profitable to allow it or not.
How is having unsubscribed accounts training more profitable than unsubscribed accounts not training? Yeah sure you have to eventually pay for 1 month to change skills, but with the huge number of plexes ingame on the markets CCP has made more money than the few people that ragequit over ghost training.
If you can't make 300 million a month to pay for a plex then you're doing it wrong.
|
RabbidFerret
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 18:45:00 -
[8]
Oh **** I have to set a new skill, thanks for reminding me.
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: salabeth CCP has never been known for admitting rather something was a mistake.. So we will never know.. dead horse is dead.
Charging $5 a month for eve voice
SKUNK (o)
|
JonnyRandom
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 20:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Falconwraith
Since it's been a year since they disabled this 'feature' (they used to promote the fact you could do it as a selling point).
Just what have you been smoking and what lies have you been listening to? Training while offline: yes. Training while unsubscribed: no. Never ever have there been any "selling points" that promoted being able to train skills while unsubscribed to the game. It was always while offline.
If you had taken it for granted, and somehow in your mind it had warped into being a "feature" and even a "selling point", perhaps one that you advertised to your friends to get them to play with you skill up without playing at all, then you need to get your head out of you know where, take a deep breath, and realize that you've been abusing CCP's game out of sheer greed. Why are you even skilling up if you don't want to play the game? You think it's going to be so much more fun when you can fly a titan? Who's gonna build you that titan? Where are you going to find the alliance to do it? Play now, make friends and allies now and have fun doing it. It's not going to be any more fun later just because you can fly a bigger ship.
|
|
Kitaen
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 20:31:00 -
[11]
Easy to answer. Are there more subscribers today than there were a year ago? If there are then why would anyone worry about a bunch of crying freeloaders?
|
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 20:41:00 -
[12]
ITT: Op laments about how his nearly free ghost training cap alts would be ready just about now.
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 21:00:00 -
[13]
I was thinking about resubscribing, the ghost training thing dissuaded me for most of a year, then I returned because of an offer.
Was it profitable? I dunno but I maintain, as I did years ago, that they weren't giving us a skill queue while it existed.
|
5pinDizzy
Amarr State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 22:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Falconwraith but I know with a year in the books they'd know if it's more profitable to allow it or not.
How is having unsubscribed accounts training more profitable than unsubscribed accounts not training? Yeah sure you have to eventually pay for 1 month to change skills, but with the huge number of plexes ingame on the markets CCP has made more money than the few people that ragequit over ghost training.
If you can't make 300 million a month to pay for a plex then you're doing it wrong.
Well the way I see it;
The longest skill on average before most people will need to log in to train a new one will be around 30-40 days and to resub its a minimum of 30 days, so even a ghost trained account needs to be actively subscribed almost half the time.
Makes me lol since CCP do those wingman offers from time to time which amounts to about the same sort of thing.
A character dedicated to ghost training may not pay as often or as much but they almost never use any server bandwidth (CCP made a lie about this at the time of the removal of ghost training that an offline training character did use a lot of bandwidth, but pretty much everyone on the forum who knows about those sorts of things called them out as lying without doubt)
On the other side of the coin however, the casual ghost trainer who would've left it a few more days before resubbing is now inconvenienced into having to keep a close eye on when their sub ends. Personally I can't be bothered and often lose a few days training in gaps from resubbing. However CCP will have squeezed a few days more overall out of all of those types that dont like to use a single skillpoint.
I too cancelled one account after ghost training removed due to the expense and I would imagine CCP have roundabout broken even, possibly a small loss, but as said, they'd never admit it in a million years if it turned out a mistake.
|
Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 22:45:00 -
[15]
I approve the idea of less alts and people making passive isk from selling max spec'ed character that have never undocked.
CCP should introduce a 'use it or lose it' feature where if you don't use a skill over the course of 3,6,9,12 months, it drops down a level.
Got BS 5, only ever fly rifters? Now you have BS 4.
That'll get people 'playing' actively, the passive ones, who really cares about?
Well CCP I guess :-)
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
5pinDizzy
Amarr State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Spurty I approve the idea of less alts and people making passive isk from selling max spec'ed character that have never undocked.
Ah right of course, knew their was something I was forgetting. The value in the character itself, character farming.
Which affects the game for everyone in negative ways, the economy etc... and I genuinely believe even if ghost training really was quite beneficial, CCP will have still gotten rid of it just for that one game hurting reason, as CCP will put the game before money under certain circumstances of course.
Pretty much it really.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:03:00 -
[17]
Feature or Bug: Im glad to see it gone - And that is the positive impact!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Itala D'Uhmri
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 13:18:00 -
[18]
Never Forget.
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 13:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: JonnyRandom Just what have you been smoking and what lies have you been listening to? Training while offline: yes. Training while unsubscribed: no. Never ever have there been any "selling points" that promoted being able to train skills while unsubscribed to the game. It was always while offline.
Sorry, but Torfi says you're wrong.
|
Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 14:37:00 -
[20]
The disabling of Ghost Training was always about the money. Which considering the time at which it happened, makes good sense.
The global recession was riding high, and Iceland had just been hit hard by it 2 weeks earlier. Even CCP had to tighten their belts, so them introducing measures to make sure nobody was getting a free ride off of them was perfectly reasonable.
The problem was, that CCP couldn't for the life of them just tell us the truth. They came up with lies, mistruths, historical revisioning and flat out denial to try to justify their behavior, and they chose the worst possible time to deliver them, immediately the day after the "Power Of 2" offer expired. It really comes as no surprise that people got angry. A simple "Guys, we need the money, we can't afford to let you have this for free anymore" statement would have gone down much better, especially with the recession in the background.
As for if there actually was any positive impact...I think I can say that with absolute certainty that in the short term, the answer is "no". The proof of that: Go watch this Youtube video (CCP Presents! 2009). At 11:33, a graph is visible showing the amount of subscribers in EvE on a monthly basis. Have a look at September 2008. Then have a look at October 2008. See the drop? That drop looks to me to be about 15000 cancelled subscriptions. That's huge for 1 month.
But here comes the obvious question: Can this drop be solely blamed on the Ghost Training fiasco? The answer is no, not when a global recession is forcing everyone to tighten their belts. Any amount of those cancellations could be due to that.
So what about long term impact? Well, a year has passed, and we're still talking about it, so it isn't exactly going away (even the threadnaught over at the Information Panel is still puttering along). Those 15000 cancellations were recouped in EvE over the span of 4 months, so it wasn't a permanent drop in subscribers. The key factor to answer this question is to learn how many of those 15000 cancelled subs that quit in Oct 2008 have since resubbed. Only CCP can answer that, and they won't. So the answer: Unknown. It can't really be answered unless you ask people for their opinion on it...and I for one, even though not using this feature and not lamenting its loss in the slightest, consider the Ghost Training fiasco to be just that: A PR fiasco for CCP that could have easily been avoided. Some of the crap flung about by CCP during this came awfully close to rivalling the crap they flung about in regards to the T20 scandal back in 2007. |
|
arbiter reformed
Minmatar Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 14:48:00 -
[21]
confirming this still makes me mad Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 17:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Sorry, but Torfi says you're wrong.
you need to train up reading comprehensive to level 2
documentation written by external 3rd party does not make a bug in the code by owners of game a feature.
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
Fisel
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 17:18:00 -
[23]
I think it is inevitable that folks will get tired of the game, but hate to give it up completely. I would think that if they offered a partial subscription... ie $5/month or something which would allow you to sign into a character and keep training going but not to play the game otherwise, it might keep cash rolling in for them... and keep people continuing to support the game while they take a break from it for a while. I would probably happily continue a subscription in this way, rather than cancelling the game completely, and perhaps never return to it. Would other folks go for something like that ?
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 17:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Spurty
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Sorry, but Torfi says you're wrong.
you need to train up reading comprehensive to level 2
documentation written by external 3rd party does not make a bug in the code by owners of game a feature.
You first. I wasn't saying it wasn't a bug, I was saying it was indeed a selling point. Due to miscommunication, maybe, but a poor excuse for you to insult people.
|
Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 19:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Falconwraith Since it's been a year since they disabled this 'feature' (they used to promote the fact you could do it as a selling point).
No they haven't.
They disabled it because too many people were abusing this, not paying but still getting skills. Simple enough, why would you need another reason?
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 I was saying it was indeed a selling point
…which it wasn't. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Originally by: Spurty
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Sorry, but Torfi says you're wrong.
you need to train up reading comprehensive to level 2
documentation written by external 3rd party does not make a bug in the code by owners of game a feature.
You first. I wasn't saying it wasn't a bug, I was saying it was indeed a selling point. Due to miscommunication, maybe, but a poor excuse for you to insult people.
You linked a URL where CCP say "A mistake by a 3rd party in documentation has been corrected".
Where do I go off the rails?
You need more insults in your life, you clearly don't know how to handle them. You are still wrong. You just look more like a moron now than someone that misread.
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Spurty
You linked a URL where CCP say "A mistake by a 3rd party in documentation has been corrected".
Where do I go off the rails?
You need more insults in your life, you clearly don't know how to handle them. You are still wrong. You just look more like a moron now than someone that misread.
Originally by: 'CCP interview" but as it turned out, our website listed it as a feature because we had outsourced the writing of our career guide to someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself,
Bolded the important parts. Regardless of who wrote it, the guy from CCP admits that not only was it listed on a feature on THEIR website, it was also THEIR guide, even if they hired someone else to write it. |
Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:49:00 -
[29]
*BLINKS* with satisfaction it clearly shows CCP did not make this a feature or selling point and it was just one of a gazzillion bugs and loop holes fixed
Thanks for saving me the bother
Next stop, spanking people making wild assertions about dominion as my work here us done!
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 22:41:00 -
[30]
For you its a one year anniversary of the ghost training fiasco, for me its a 6 month anniversary of my second return the the forums ;D
In any case ghost training was a cash grab and nothing more. What ****ed me off then, and I imagine many others is two-fold:
- they assured us the 'feature' was meant only for EVE China when it was 'accidentally' intruced the first time - they insisted it wasn't about money about five times before actually admitting it was about money
I still don't know which is more offensive in the longer run; that we've got the memory of goldfish or that we're stupid :\
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |