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Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.06.14 12:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig.
perhaps add a bonus for covert cloaks, however if you want a cloak i think you should have to sacrifice a mining laser slot. otherwise, i like it. |
Altair Raja
Colonial Marines EVE Division Villore Accords
4
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
No one is ever happy with what they are given... AFK cloaking doesn't earn anything, so it needs a buff! |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Altair Raja wrote:No one is ever happy with what they are given... if we were, life would be terribly boring. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
94
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Covert cloaks do add a lot of freedom to movement in hostile space but that is usually at the expensive of doing your primary job less efficiently and we all know that miners are about efficiency. As a frigate it should have the agility to move relatively easy within low sec with only boosted gate camps catching them. The T2 could add some other survivability features for low-sec, such as improved agility to GTFO when hostiles drop on your head.
Instead of a covert cloak it would be nice to have a utility slot or two and be able to fit a prototype cloak so you can take a break at a safe and be safe.
I'll post my first suggestion here while waiting for the official feedback thread but I'd like to see an Ore hauler. A T1 version that has a nice ore bay and maybe a small cargo bay and a covert T2 version that has a smaller ore bay but could support a small team of ninja miners.
Time to let the miners take on low-sec. -á |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:I'll post my first suggestion here while waiting for the official feedback thread but I'd like to see an Ore hauler.
so like a baby orca sans links and ship bay/fitting service? i'd like to see that, provided the ore bay was bigger than a itty V at ore industrial V skill level, otherwise it's pointless especially if it's a dedicated ore bay.
would be nice to haul ore to a refinery in the ore bay and use the regular bay to haul the minerals back. (i love the way 1 jetcan of prime arkonor refines to about 100m3 of minerals) |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
94
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Rees Noturana wrote:I'll post my first suggestion here while waiting for the official feedback thread but I'd like to see an Ore hauler. so like a baby orca sans links and ship bay/fitting service? i'd like to see that, provided the ore bay was bigger than a itty V at ore industrial V skill level, otherwise it's pointless especially if it's a dedicated ore bay. would be nice to haul ore to a refinery in the ore bay and use the regular bay to haul the minerals back. (i love the way 1 jetcan of prime arkonor refines to about 100m3 of minerals)
Yeah, but with removing so many features from the Orca maybe it's easier to think of it as an Iteron V but with a large ore bay and the T2 version as a Viator with a medium sized ore bay. -á |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Dave stark wrote:Rees Noturana wrote:I'll post my first suggestion here while waiting for the official feedback thread but I'd like to see an Ore hauler. so like a baby orca sans links and ship bay/fitting service? i'd like to see that, provided the ore bay was bigger than a itty V at ore industrial V skill level, otherwise it's pointless especially if it's a dedicated ore bay. would be nice to haul ore to a refinery in the ore bay and use the regular bay to haul the minerals back. (i love the way 1 jetcan of prime arkonor refines to about 100m3 of minerals) Yeah, but with removing so many features from the Orca maybe it's easier to think of it as an Iteron V but with a large ore bay and the T2 version as a Viator with a medium sized ore bay.
either way it'd be a nice half way stepping stone from industrial to orca with a specialised role.
infact, i'd love one of these for null/low sec. there's no way i want to get caught flying an orca around down there, but if this was reasonably priced (say the same cost as a DST/BR at most, i would risk one in order to move ore around.)
although i'd rather see a t2 variant closer to a DST than a BR. BR's generally sacrifice too much cargo capacity for my taste, however a +2 warp stab bonus would be nice compromise to retain a worth while ore bay. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
94
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:infact, i'd love one of these for null/low sec. there's no way i want to get caught flying an orca around down there, but if this was reasonably priced (say the same cost as a DST/BR at most, i would risk one in order to move ore around.)
although i'd rather see a t2 variant closer to a DST than a BR. BR's generally sacrifice too much cargo capacity for my taste, however a +2 warp stab bonus would be nice compromise to retain a worth while ore bay.
If it can fit an MWD and you can do the cloak/MWD technique to get it off the gate in a reasonable amount of time that sounds great to me.
I think ninja mining should mean that all fleet members have to be active and you sacrifice some volume but requiring more dedicated roles within the fleet, but in return the ISK return should somewhat higher that AFK mining in high sec with an Orca and fleet of barges. There needs to be a reward to low sec mining and it has to be high enough to make up for lost vessels.
If we can fit in a mining director in some fashion that would be cool too.
-á |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
11
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Dave stark wrote:infact, i'd love one of these for null/low sec. there's no way i want to get caught flying an orca around down there, but if this was reasonably priced (say the same cost as a DST/BR at most, i would risk one in order to move ore around.)
although i'd rather see a t2 variant closer to a DST than a BR. BR's generally sacrifice too much cargo capacity for my taste, however a +2 warp stab bonus would be nice compromise to retain a worth while ore bay. If it can fit an MWD and you can do the cloak/MWD technique to get it off the gate in a reasonable amount of time that sounds great to me. I think ninja mining should mean that all fleet members have to be active and you sacrifice some volume but requiring more dedicated roles within the fleet, but in return the ISK return should somewhat higher that AFK mining in high sec with an Orca and fleet of barges. There needs to be a reward to low sec mining and it has to be high enough to make up for lost vessels. If we can fit in a mining director in some fashion that would be cool too.
yeah but if you're sitting in an industry 5 cyno jammed system with a rorq and a fleet of hulks... ninja mining is nice for giggles but i don't think it's some kind of real idea that's ever going to take off. i know you said low sec but honestly, high sec or null sec for mining, the risk of low sec just isn't worth it, in any situation. low sec ores just aren't lucrative enough to cover the loss of yield.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore
there's about 900k isk per jetcan of ore difference between the most lucrative high sec ore and the most lucrative low sec ore. currently solo mining in a hulk with exhumer IV, t2 crystals, and 2x mlu IIs i can fill a jetcan in ~18 mins i think, call it 20 with roids popping etc, so that's 3 an hour.
an extra 2.7m/hr isk is not going to get me to risk going in to low sec rather than the comparative safety of high sec. not to mention you're probably going to lose 2.7m or more due to the lower yield of a cov ops based mining ship.
i just don't see the viability of the idea in the long term, i'm sorry. |
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
94
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:yeah but if you're sitting in an industry 5 cyno jammed system with a rorq and a fleet of hulks... ninja mining is nice for giggles but i don't think it's some kind of real idea that's ever going to take off. i know you said low sec but honestly, high sec or null sec for mining, the risk of low sec just isn't worth it, in any situation. low sec ores just aren't lucrative enough to cover the loss of yield. http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:orethere's about 900k isk per jetcan of ore difference between the most lucrative high sec ore and the most lucrative low sec ore. currently solo mining in a hulk with exhumer IV, t2 crystals, and 2x mlu IIs i can fill a jetcan in ~18 mins i think, call it 20 with roids popping etc, so that's 3 an hour. an extra 2.7m/hr isk is not going to get me to risk going in to low sec rather than the comparative safety of high sec. not to mention you're probably going to lose 2.7m or more due to the lower yield of a cov ops based mining ship. i just don't see the viability of the idea in the long term, i'm sorry.
I brought this up about a year ago. I have no interest in null sec alliances but I'm bored with high sec. To make low sec work then high sec mining needs a hard nerf. That idea won't make me popular with the high sec miners but its the only way to fix the transition from high to low to null industry.
I see a potentially viable ship solution to low sec mining and I get interested but you are right. The ISK/hour for the risk never adds up.
Agile mining vessels beat trying to win the escalation of tank vs gank and reward the active miners. Don't give me more tank, let me react. I don't want to sit there, let me be active. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
12
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Dave stark wrote:yeah but if you're sitting in an industry 5 cyno jammed system with a rorq and a fleet of hulks... ninja mining is nice for giggles but i don't think it's some kind of real idea that's ever going to take off. i know you said low sec but honestly, high sec or null sec for mining, the risk of low sec just isn't worth it, in any situation. low sec ores just aren't lucrative enough to cover the loss of yield. http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:orethere's about 900k isk per jetcan of ore difference between the most lucrative high sec ore and the most lucrative low sec ore. currently solo mining in a hulk with exhumer IV, t2 crystals, and 2x mlu IIs i can fill a jetcan in ~18 mins i think, call it 20 with roids popping etc, so that's 3 an hour. an extra 2.7m/hr isk is not going to get me to risk going in to low sec rather than the comparative safety of high sec. not to mention you're probably going to lose 2.7m or more due to the lower yield of a cov ops based mining ship. i just don't see the viability of the idea in the long term, i'm sorry. I brought this up about a year ago. I have no interest in null sec alliances but I'm bored with high sec. To make low sec work then high sec mining needs a hard nerf. That idea won't make me popular with the high sec miners but its the only way to fix the transition from high to low to null industry. I see a potentially viable ship solution to low sec mining and I get interested but you are right. The ISK/hour for the risk never adds up.
i think the entire issue here is low sec, not mining or mining ships. perhaps moving some of the lesser null ores in to low sec may tip the balance to make low sec mining worth while, putting abc ores in low sec? leave mercoxit exclusive to null though. as it stands, low sec is just a stupid place to consider mining in my opinion. |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Patience young one.
If CCP does release a T2 version it will be after the T1 version goes out and they see how they are being used and how. |
Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
6
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'd rather a T2 variant of the new mining frig give yield/velocity/hp bonuses to mining drones and have a 25m3+ drone bay than be able to fit a cloak. It's a mining ship, not a combat or support vessel.
If you want to be 'safe' in losec or nulsec then join a corp that can defend you, or at least provide you with some decent scouting so you know when to get somewhere safe. |
Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grenn Putubi, safe, who the hell wants safe, I want a fighting chance to do things, so look for tools for the job, a T2 version of this mining frigate with a covert ops cloak would drive unimaginatgive people nuts, damn all these carebears now in 0.0 ninja mining abc ores, who would have thought it.
I reject completely you putting words in my mouth that I want safe, what I want is a ship that enables me to have a chance of getting away and making it difficult for those that want to prevent me doing what I want.
I looked at your kill board and I see a Covertor loss in low sec, takes attitude to mine in low sec, hats off to you, but think about the tool you were using a slow lumbering mining barge with a tissue paper hull and no way to evade people, think about the fun of de-cloaking getting a cycle in, warping off to another rock, getting a cycle in all while mr pirate was trying to kill you.
Have you ever been in a situation belt ratting with people trying to kill you, I had the pleasure of killing rats in front of them and warping out numerous time, also salvaging faction spawns in front of them too, part of the fun is doing something just because people are trying to stop you.
But to be blunt the tools for mining like this do not exist and with people having an attitude that you can only do it by joining a big 0.0 alliance and being guarded and have a massive blue list etc., is a bit sad.
I could see a lot of bloody minded people having a lot of fun with the proposed ship, I do it because I can and part of the fun is just to do it, at the moment the odds atre too stacked against me doing this with the current tools, though I might try this with the new frigate, lets take a trip to Goon space and mine some of their ABC for lol's...
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Grenn Putubi
The SWAG Lab SWAG Co
10
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Posted - 2012.06.14 22:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd rather see a T2 mining frigate that could actually mine effectively than see one dedicated to some sort of 'hit and run' mining. I doubt the ship will have the sort of hold that would make any such mining profitable at all.
If you want to play hide and seek with people then feel free, there are plenty of ships in the game already that allow you to do just that. Please don't ask for one of the few dedicated mining vessels in the game to be capable of anything besides mining, it's silly and rather insulting to people that take mining seriously. |
Enna Bairelle
Lar Sara Nation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.15 00:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig.
Lol you're in IRC for a reason.
What about fitting a T3 for mining with covops and nullifier ? |
Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.06.15 05:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your first point, that is the challenge.
In terms of serious mining that is what a Hulk, Rorqual and Orca are for, are you so fixed in your ways that you cannot see that others have different motives then just yield. And I happen to know some very serious miners, would a serious miner really use a mining frigate, your logic is lacking!!! In any case the mining frigate is likely to be so cheap that you could use it as a throw away ship, but still, moving around to get to the abc ores will be difficult.
Grenn Putubi wrote:I'd rather see a T2 mining frigate that could actually mine effectively than see one dedicated to some sort of 'hit and run' mining. I doubt the ship will have the sort of hold that would make any such mining profitable at all.
If you want to play hide and seek with people then feel free, there are plenty of ships in the game already that allow you to do just that. Please don't ask for one of the few dedicated mining vessels in the game to be capable of anything besides mining, it's silly and rather insulting to people that take mining seriously.
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Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.06.15 06:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
LOL, another member of the herd, who ignores the fact that IRC hangs in there while many others have caved in, yeah damn right I am in IRC for a reason, I respect them for hanging tough and put myself in that firing line, you however talk a good game but a 54.65% efficiency ratio compared to my 93.1% says otherwise, but don't let facts get in the way of a Goon herd like comment.
Would you really want to use a T3 worth around 750m for this when you could use a ship which has the same cost as a Cheetah, that make any sense to you?
quote=Enna Bairelle]Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig.
Lol you're in IRC for a reason.
What about fitting a T3 for mining with covops and nullifier ? [/quote]
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lovebus
Black Guards Hades.
0
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Posted - 2012.06.16 06:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig. Can we get eh T1 version before we start going on about the T2 version. why dont you turn all that creativity into finding a scenario where a mining frigate would actually be useful |
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Sentinel zx
Shadow Phoenix Special Forces
4
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Posted - 2012.06.16 08:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
lovebus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig. Can we get eh T1 version before we start going on about the T2 version. why dont you turn all that creativity into finding a scenario where a mining frigate would actually be useful
Sure how about Comet Mining
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121752&find=unread |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.06.16 09:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Frankly, I'd love to see a set of mining ships dedicated to "frontier" mining. Based on high risk and high reward over low risk high volume/effeciency. Actual *active* mining. Ships designed to venture into low or null to poach high reward goodies while sneakily avoiding danger.
Mining thats more like treasure hunting/prospecting than afk miner cycling. |
Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.06.16 11:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
This guy totally gets it, as for the Hades chap, can't you read?
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Frankly, I'd love to see a set of mining ships dedicated to "frontier" mining. Based on high risk and high reward over low risk high volume/effeciency. Actual *active* mining. Ships designed to venture into low or null to poach high reward goodies while sneakily avoiding danger.
Mining thats more like treasure hunting/prospecting than afk miner cycling.
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Varg Krugar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.06.16 11:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
the problem there is that you can use the same "high risk/high efficiency" tool in a low risk setting with unmitigated efficiency. so to make this work, the ship would need to be only effective on ores in risky surroundings, right? now, iirc the current skiff was supposed to be a ninja mercoxit miner? with the +2 warp strength and all? bit of a problem with the size/yield ratio of mercoxit, but apart from that, doesnt it fit your bill? minus the cloak utility hislot, of course. but lets face it, cloaking up at the first sign of danger is not exactly thrilling gameplay |
Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like that idea too, people moan all the time about the lack of people entering 0.0, well there has to be reasons to go there, your idea along with what I suggested would open up 0.0 to more adventerous souls who have real reasosn to go there.
Sentinel zx wrote:lovebus wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I very much like the new mining frigate and the proposed changes to the Mining Barges / Exhumers. What about making a T2 version of the mining frigate that can use a covert ops cloak, in this way people could ninja mine the belts in deep 0.0 and have a lot of fun doing so.
In terms of the T1 mining frigate, please can you put an auxilary high for a cloak and at least some bonus for cpu reduction on cloaks. If you do that then there will be a lot of carebears with spirit heading into 0.0 to get some ABC ore even if you do not do a T2 covert mining frig. Can we get eh T1 version before we start going on about the T2 version. why dont you turn all that creativity into finding a scenario where a mining frigate would actually be useful Sure how about Comet Mining https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121752&find=unread
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Wilma Shakespear
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.06.30 11:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maybe with that Changes and Crimewatch things like Hulkaddon are History |
Steve Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.07.01 02:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
[/quote]
ok a few points
1) Comets, like asteroids are basicaly orbital objects, there not going to give you insain speed on a ship because technicaly your already moveing a fairly high relative (to the gravitational center of the solar system) speeds to start with just to be at most of the outer planets to start with. Manuvers within the local frame of reference (be it a roid belt or mission space or moon) generaly dont need to be at extreem high speeds.(and in fact maintaining an extreamly high relative speed to the comet would be counter productive).
2) bascialy from the sound of things "mobile grids" are not realy in the cards with the developers for the same reason that planets moons and roid belts dont orbit but are stuck in place.
3) Comets are basicaly the same thing as Ice asteroids. Granted to be fair in the real world asteroids and comets are basiclay the exact same material found on moons and planets, but in the EvE universe the Unversal constant changes depending on when and where you are so who knows what a comet realy is in EvE. |
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