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Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Raekek wrote:I wonder how the mining cruisers will fit into this plan? (Osprey, Exequror, etc.)
They are pretty useless right now. Hopefully they will be rebalanced to fit (viable) support roles or something.
I always considered those are mostly for people who do not want to spend the SP on barges, an only mine infrequently. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Sal Alo wrote:My impression is that CCCP won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly. Anyway, I could be more interested in the Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similar to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP (how much less?) than the procurer mining barge. Yeah, great design scheme ain't it ? The better, more expensive ship (Hulk) shall remain a paper bag. I'm glad Real Life design is much better than EVE. You mean miners will have to decide whether they want an easier time surviving or if they want high isk/hour? This is a huge change. Self-appointed forums hallway monitor |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
236
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Quote:Barge in on me
Changing the mining frigates to have combat roles made us realize that we need something to replace them. Which lead us to realize how outdated mining barges are. ThatGÇÖs something we want to tackle over the course of the summer as well. Our goal is simple: each and every single mining barge (and their tech 2 variant) should have an appealing role, and not just be a stepping stone on the way to something better. Players should'nt only aim for the Hulk without considering anything else when doing some hard rock and roll mining. That means playing with the following variables:
Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently. Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining. Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.
As a result we thus get:
New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience. Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP. Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge. Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up. Now please kindly shut the hell up. Oh and I'm gonna go ahead and spoil it for you, Battleship HP will help, but all the HP in world wont stop people from nuking you, but at least this change may push the threshold too high for people to want to gank solo miners. The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield and hold to gain this advantage.
You know what I would rather listen to whiney miners than a pontificating, rude dumb hump like you. Changes are not set in stone but "shut -the hell- up and don't voice your opinions (even though you are the majorty) or give input because this is my game and I'm going to bore you by dicatating how you have to play it.' in the forums"
yeah, these posts are a dime a dozen. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
baltec1
1452
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Quote:Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP Now please kindly shut the hell up. Oh and I'm gonna go ahead and spoil it for you, Battleship HP will help, but all the HP in world wont stop people from nuking you, but at least this change may push the threshold too high for people to want to gank solo miners. The trade off for your safety will be that you must give up some of your yield and hold to gain this advantage. If its going to be a useful ship it should mine better than a battleship.
Nerf battleships. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
920
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sal Alo wrote:My impression is that CCCP won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly.
If they wanted to end AFK or Bot Mining, they could do what hundreds of free MMORPGs and many pay RPGs do: Add a captcha to Mining. Every time your miners cycle, they have a 1 in 50 chance of popping up a "please enter this number" type thing. Only can happen once every 30-60 minutes or so. Don't do the Captcha, your miners are offlined and you have to go dock to fix them.
You could log the failures as well, so if you see someone fail the captcha, then go dock, fix their ship, then immediately go back, well you probably have a bot if they do this 5 or 6 or 25 times in a row. Better yet: If they fail the captcha once, go back and re-online their modules, the chance of the captcha reappearing goes up to 100%.
This would be a stopgap measure, of course, designed to stop bot mining until such a time that CCP can have someone redesign the mining interface to make it fun enough to actually bother doing.
It would instantly and permanently end AFK Bot Mining. It would be trivial to implement. Why CCP hasn't done so is beyond me. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
920
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote: You know what I would rather listen to whiney miners than a pontificating, rude dumb hump like you. Changes are not set in stone but "shut -the hell- up and don't voice your opinions (even though you are the majorty) or give input because this is my game and I'm going to bore you by dicatating how you have to play it.' in the forums"
yeah, these posts are a dime a dozen.
I was going to just shrug and ignore this post, then I realized that you have an image tag (which doesn't work) in your signature.
Now I have rolled my eyes so hard I believe I tore something. Go fix your signature, it looks horrible, even for a badposter. |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1132
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Will they revamp ice mining ???
10 minute cycle ??? Really ???
NO, best semi-afk activity evar!
I can actually focus on another thing for half an hour straight without fear of overloading a mack
(I purposely left the ice skill at level 1 for this xD) The Drake is a Lie |
Sal Alo
Pane e Panelle
0
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Posted - 2012.06.15 22:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Xython wrote:Sal Alo wrote:My impression is that CCCP won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly. If they wanted to end AFK or Bot Mining, they could do what hundreds of free MMORPGs and many pay RPGs do: Add a captcha to Mining. Every time your miners cycle, they have a 1 in 50 chance of popping up a "please enter this number" type thing. Only can happen once every 30-60 minutes or so. Don't do the Captcha, your miners are offlined and you have to go dock to fix them. You could log the failures as well, so if you see someone fail the captcha, then go dock, fix their ship, then immediately go back, well you probably have a bot if they do this 5 or 6 or 25 times in a row. Better yet: If they fail the captcha once, go back and re-online their modules, the chance of the captcha reappearing goes up to 100%. This would be a stopgap measure, of course, designed to stop bot mining until such a time that CCP can have someone redesign the mining interface to make it fun enough to actually bother doing. It would instantly and permanently end AFK Bot Mining. It would be trivial to implement. Why CCP hasn't done so is beyond me.
Indeed, it would be a not so difficult fix.
For the bold, here's my guess: they want to keep this semi-AFK-friendly because EVE has older players that like to "play" while focusing in other activities and switching to EVE every 20-30 minutes? |
Grumpy Owly
Paladin Philanthropists
633
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Posted - 2012.06.16 07:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
I wouldn't be fooled by these "improvements" by CCP.
It means that the mining yeilds could be reduced overall as people might switch to solo play in more defensible ships with lower yields than the hulk due to the ongoing threat from Ganking. Good for miners wallet I guess as individuals, bad for the economy.
If they don't then the slight increase "overall" with yields due to lower tier ships having improvements will mean that mineral prices will fall due to the supply being better.
Then realising that to make any money from the profession you will need to be in an Organisations that employs OPs in groups to be able to profit from the exercise. (Some might say this is the case now). But the emphasis is more promotion to this style of play.
This is actually good practice for mining and is the optimum best way of doing it of course. Which does add some more defensive options if done right, with appropriate skilling and links in a fleet arrangement.
But this then makes it a gankers paradise, as they then have a concentration of targets to make profits more obtainable in singular runs as opposed to gambling more on solo targets.
Might help with ICE mining however, if the Mack and Retriever are to get a significant boost with EHP whilst retaining its relative performance.
Interestingly if the ORE frig is helpful as an avoidance to threat, it will help the null sec miners to extract ABC ores in theory as it then provides a faster ship to avoid threats whilst aquiring more profitable ores when in lower volumes.
The market has already seemingly reacted positively to the news, at least for those selling mining craft, with barge prices climbing following the announcement. Not neccesarily good news for those wanting to mine however? Wether awareness to the Permageddon exercise is also a main factor to any drive coupled with the news circulating amongst miners I dont know. Bounty Hunting for CSM7 |
Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1420
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 07:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
Upvote all the Grath Dare to dream of a better New Eden. -áDegren for CSM 8 |
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Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2012.06.16 11:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
you guys talk as if CCP has ever followed through with one of these "we promise the world" dev blogs.... |
Malacath Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
0
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Posted - 2012.06.16 13:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
This will only shut them up for so long. People will still fly Hulks for maximum yield & will still be ganked by destroyers. |
Dimitryy
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
53
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Posted - 2012.06.16 13:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Sal Alo wrote:My impression is that CCCP won't change the current mining system and its semi-AFK-friendly current status (before <3 Goons) and they'd like to bring that back. IIRC once or twice they had admitted the above pretty explicitly. Anyway, I could be more interested in the Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similar to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP (how much less?) than the procurer mining barge. Yeah, great design scheme ain't it ? The better, more expensive ship (Hulk) shall remain a paper bag. I'm glad Real Life design is much better than EVE.
You are literally ********. |
Tex Steele
Department of Defence Fatal Ascension
9
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Posted - 2012.06.25 17:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
I cannot see how this constitutes any kind of good news. The Hulk is the only capable mining ship we have. Even if they raise the mining output levels on other platforms, they still do not have 3 turrets for strip miners. This is good for entry level people who can only fly frigates, but for those of us dedicated miners (who by the way, support he backbone of industry in New Eden) who spent the time and effort to train for the Hulk, we need some serious help.
Consider this: In the real world, in a business or a government, if massive investment ships were being taken down by solo pirates, either the ships would get better at defense or the government would step in - Notice the various governments who have started taking on the Somali Pirates lately?
So, Since CCP, the government of EVE is determined to make this a PvP - Ganking Oriented game, or to cause everyone to have to join Massive alliances in order to be in massive fleets to even be able to play the game, we can obviously expect little from them to support the solo miners and industrialists out here who simply enjoy playing the game without fear of being ganked every 5 minutes by some noob in a crap-fit cheap ship.
The Hulk needs better passive defense or "tank". Maybe the ability to evade warp disruption in order to attempt escape from a solo ganker, or survive an alpha strike first shot from a solo ganker. Let's get real - any miner who continues mining after a FLEET of ganking ships shows up in their system on d-scan isn't doing it right, and will learn the hard way. So, just a little help on this, please. Currently,the cargo bay on a hulk will either just barely or NOT hold the output from 2 cycles of the mining lasers. This is pretty ridiculous - the ore-bay should be about twice that size at a minimum. This allows the miner to focus on getting the hauler in place or move the Orca and still mine without having to drop cans while ore is being hauled away. NOT big steps, just some common sense improvements to a great ship.
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Ituhata
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.06.25 17:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
Wow, the changes haven't even been implemented and already there is whining.
FYI consider during WWII the government had merchant ships travel in a zig-zag pattern to evade german u-boats. Sometimes doing things actively yourself is the best protection available. |
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