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Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
6
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Posted - 2012.06.25 17:53:00 -
[181] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Mingja wrote:Quote:or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do. to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.
edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining. Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead. the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad.
If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2012.06.25 21:54:00 -
[182] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Dave stark wrote:Mingja wrote:Quote:or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do. to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.
edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining. Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead. the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad. If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference.
when you can't tank a triple BS spawn, your drone skills mean less than how many pokemon cards you had as a kid. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
6
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Posted - 2012.06.25 21:57:00 -
[183] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Zyella Stormborn wrote:Dave stark wrote:Mingja wrote:Quote:or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do. to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.
edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining. Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead. the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad. If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference. when you can't tank a triple BS spawn, your drone skills mean less than how many pokemon cards you had as a kid.
There are more than just pew pew drones out there you can get. If you are mining areas with triple BS spawns, you need back up anyway, or an alt. But even so, ecms, webbers, or even just the aggro being on said drones enables you to get yourself out of there. My high opinion of drones still stands. ;)
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Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens
10
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Posted - 2012.06.25 22:26:00 -
[184] - Quote
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2012.06.25 22:37:00 -
[185] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
There are more than just pew pew drones out there you can get. If you are mining areas with triple BS spawns, you need back up anyway, or an alt. But even so, ecms, webbers, or even just the aggro being on said drones enables you to get yourself out of there. My high opinion of drones still stands. ;)
to be fair, i did notice the very short training time on light shield rep drones, so i figured i'd waste 6 hours or so and see if they're any help. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2012.06.25 22:38:00 -
[186] - Quote
Zetaomega333 wrote:If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.
i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens. |
Steve Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.25 23:56:00 -
[187] - Quote
ok
1 this is not realy live yet even on the test server.
2 this is CCP, they can and will BLEEEP up something completly other than what we are talking about.
3 the plan currently seems to be to replace the Racial mining Frigates with ORE mining frigates, and MAYBE replace the racial mining cruisers with another ORE ship if not simply just replace the Racial mining cruisers with nothing
4 from what I am seeing I kind of expect the folowing. 4a at least one mining highslot to the Procurer/Skiff, and maybee a med slot 4b the Big ass orebay on the Retriever/Mackinaw 4c if they decide to buff it the Covetor/hulk to to be the high yeild king, Ironicaly the best way to do it is to slap on a 4th mining laser hardpoint.
5 given the push on new modules/rigs I suspect that some of the next modules are going to be ones that provide bonuses for specialisations
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Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens
10
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Posted - 2012.06.26 02:45:00 -
[188] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat. i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens.
Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
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Posted - 2012.06.26 07:18:00 -
[189] - Quote
Zetaomega333 wrote:Dave stark wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat. i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens. Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well.
all i do is mine, like 24/7. there isn't always a mining op going on so i do my own solo mining. i just mine more than is healthy for any sane person. |
Mingja
lass mich in ruhe und nerf ned
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 11:34:00 -
[190] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:Dave stark wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat. i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens. Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well. all i do is mine, like 24/7. there isn't always a mining op going on so i do my own solo mining. i just mine more than is healthy for any sane person.
Sane person? :D
Mining is a complete valid type of gameplay. It's one of the most active (hardcore-trading is the only thing which might top it) professions at all if you have a good fleet booster active (don't even mention lazy men's pathetic orca-boosts please) and atleast 2 skilled Hulks. ;) Despite what everyone and their mom's arses are saying. |
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Star Runner
Imminent Intentions
5
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:14:00 -
[191] - Quote
What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:26:00 -
[192] - Quote
Star Runner wrote:What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense.
The price isn't really set by game stats, it's set by the tech cartels. You can't go about balancing ship performance based on how high the market drives certain commodities. You could make the Hulk's performance vs the Covetor match its price differential today, and by tomorrow the bang per buck ratio would be different again. |
Star Runner
Imminent Intentions
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:34:00 -
[193] - Quote
Salo Aldeland wrote:Star Runner wrote:What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense. The price isn't really set by game stats, it's set by the tech cartels. You can't go about balancing ship performance based on how high the market drives certain commodities. You could make the Hulk's performance vs the Covetor match its price differential today, and by tomorrow the bang per buck ratio would be different again.
Which is why it will be interesting to see how the prices change if these changes go into effect. Right now, the price differential between the hulk and the covetor is tolerated, but the mechanics back that price differential up. If the mechanics change, presumably the prices would eventually change to match, but how fast and how much would make things interesting for a while. |
Chris Cooley
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:50:00 -
[194] - Quote
The Hulk need a built in 1600 plate and a larger hold. It should also have a built in roid scanner. |
Gorinia Sanford
Sons of Russ
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 06:58:00 -
[195] - Quote
I am FacelessAlt wrote:Yes these changes are a Nerf to Hulks, the co-worker analogy is false as other miners are not co-workers they are competition... remember that this game is not just ship based PvP.
These changes mean that new players get an increased yield with a mahoosive tank and hold making them comparable with the top end mining vessel. An ore hold equal to the cargo hold of a Hulk yay... high end miners use an orca anyway. No anti gank the super expensive ship here. Seems the balancers are on the same side as the muppet gankers (less stupid now the goons have extended the bounty but nonetheless) the Hulk is meant to be a hardcore highend vessel with skill requirements to match now a couple of weeks training gets you similar results.
I understand the need to make each ship have its place but I can't help but feel like us Hulk miners have just got the raw end of a shiny deal.
True enough. I just got my Hulk last week and I love how fast I can asteroids now.
However, as they say, the other mining barges will receive a buff to bring up their yield closer to a Hulk, I will bring my Retrievers out of mothballs and use them for solo mining and save the Hulk for corp ops. Being that the Retriever will have a ore hold on par with a jetcan, I can fill it, return to base and head back out and save myself some grief by not being can flipped.
And for the record, I do not AFK mine. Sure, I get up from time to time to get a snack, something to drink or use the restroom, but I try to keep as alert as possible to avoid getting ganked. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 03:02:00 -
[196] - Quote
If CCP closes the gap between all the other ore ships and the hulk, should that now make the hulk less valuable and the other ships a little more? Which will be a good thing because it will drop hulk prices and industrialist wont be so butt hurt if they have to buy a new one. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 15:34:00 -
[197] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:If CCP closes the gap between all the other ore ships and the hulk, should that now make the hulk less valuable and the other ships a little more? Which will be a good thing because it will drop hulk prices and industrialist wont be so butt hurt if they have to buy a new one.
A very good point as well. Mining in general is the slowest of the money making ventures in Eve, yet uses the most expensive ship it can get for the job as a rule. If that price tanks, it will help quite a bit on recovery when they get blown out of their ships. |
Mingja
lass mich in ruhe und nerf ned
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 16:09:00 -
[198] - Quote
Zetaomega333 wrote:If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.
Oh.. you are so wrong.. all it needs is a Gistii B-type small shield booster, some tankmods in mids and the second hulk pilot with logi drones. Price in total arround 70 mil. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
66
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 04:27:00 -
[199] - Quote
Man that's lame.
It's not going to stop me from mining in my Hulk but at least they should have buffed are EHP.
I think the buffs to the lower end ships is great.
I even think the ore hold being bigger on lower yield is great.
Give up ore hold for ore yeild that's great.
Still in a over priced glass ore sucker just sucks though. |
Corvus Borealis
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 06:01:00 -
[200] - Quote
Damn, how hard it is to get it?
Hulk is the ship that has been pimped for mining yield.
Skiff is the ship that has been pimped for tanking.
Mackinaw is the ship that has been pimped for ice extraction.
So you have three tools, for three different situations |
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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
107
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Posted - 2012.07.04 07:51:00 -
[201] - Quote
Corvus Borealis wrote:Damn, how hard it is to get it?
Hulk is the ship that has been pimped for mining yield.
Skiff is the ship that has been pimped for tanking.
Mackinaw is the ship that has been pimped for ice extraction.
So you have three tools, for three different situations
i forsee ice and mercoxit bonuses vanishing.
it would be thoroughly stupid on ccp's part to give us all these nice options of more yield, more tank, more cargo and then say you can ONLY effectively mine ice/mercox in a specific ship. |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
23
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Posted - 2012.07.04 09:00:00 -
[202] - Quote
Breezly Brewin wrote:This change is good we will have different ships for different situations.
That is true on the surface, but it boils down to 1 option, which change depending on weather or not you mine alone.
Group mining with support: Covetor/Hulk. Alone: Procurer/Skiff.
I don't think a lot of players are going to use the retriever for hi-sec mining, jet can sized ore hold may look good on paper, but at the expense of mining output and ehp it just don't seem worth it. With the procurer you still need to anchor cans, but you get battleship ehp and best mining output, and with no station jumps the most mining time. The Retriever/Mackinaw is probably going to be good for afk mining, maybe CCP plans to reward the people who don't play the game with a specialized ship.
While the Hulk is currently the only choice, we really gain nothing when it comes to ship options. The game is just being redesigned so miner no longer have the option to do maximum mining without a support/protection, which may or may not be designed to move more industry to low/null sec. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 14:32:00 -
[203] - Quote
dexington wrote:Breezly Brewin wrote:This change is good we will have different ships for different situations. That is true on the surface, but it boils down to 1 option, which change depending on weather or not you mine alone. Group mining with support: Covetor/Hulk. Alone: Procurer/Skiff. I don't think a lot of players are going to use the retriever for hi-sec mining, jet can sized ore hold may look good on paper, but at the expense of mining output and ehp it just don't seem worth it. .
Hmmm how does it feel to be wrong? I am pretty excited about using the new retriever/skiff. When I am mining I am usually doing something much more fun on another screen, like pew pew. I have sound on so I don't need a super tank, I hear someone locking me and I warp to station (since I am already aligned out). The large ore bay is appealing to me, cause when I am schoolin fools in PvP I can't be bothered running back and forth between station every 2 min. |
Kelhund
Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.07.04 14:51:00 -
[204] - Quote
Aye, large ore bay plus a lowslot or two on the skiff, and that'll be the only thing you need if you're mining in a wh alone and unafraid :D |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
32
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Posted - 2012.07.04 15:00:00 -
[205] - Quote
Haffsol wrote:yeah buffin the procurer and giving the retriever 27500 m3 of ore bay + a nearly bs tank will make everybody happy LoL
Unfortunately serious miners fly in hulks and they will get no bonuses but an 8k-ish ore bay (cool 1 more cycle afk for me). All the highsec gankers will have to gank hulks (and covetors eventually) so....... where is the buff please? Spending 2 weeks to fly a retriever Vs spending 3 months to mine decently in a hulk (not to mention orca boosting) with no benefit but an 8k-ish ore hold? Everything done under the the golden rule that "an hulk mine too much"
sure, that's a buff for bot users and afk miners.
edit: anyway you're right, I modified the title, "only" hulks will get nerf'd, noob mining barges will be shiny ;)
Show me on your Hulk where the Nerf-Bat touched you.
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Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 22:01:00 -
[206] - Quote
There does seem to be a lot of people that assume everyone that uses a Retriever will be an afk miner. Many of these people also tend to have multiple accounts (for their orca alt, etc). I myself do have an Orca alt for when I mine, but my buddy does not, he only has 1 account, and enjoys mining sometimes when were not online together. The Retriever is perfect for him (well, we're assuming, since we havent seen hard stats yet), as where we mine is a little out of the way, but can flippers do occasionally make their way through. He can mine, listen to Eve Radio, talk with his wife, and relax, without having to run back to base every few minutes (unless local pops).
I do hope they give the Hulk a little more EHP (bit too easy to gank atm, in anything lower than .8 for high sec.), or the price dramatically lowers for them. Other than that, I am pretty excited about the changes to the rest of the miners. Love seeing options! ;) |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
24
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Posted - 2012.07.05 07:28:00 -
[207] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:Hmmm how does it feel to be wrong? I am pretty excited about using the new retriever/skiff. When I am mining I am usually doing something much more fun on another screen, like pew pew. I have sound on so I don't need a super tank, I hear someone locking me and I warp to station (since I am already aligned out). The large ore bay is appealing to me, cause when I am schoolin fools in PvP I can't be bothered running back and forth between station every 2 min.
As i said the Retriever/Skiff is designed for afk mining, which i don't mind people doing, i just find it strange ccp decides to reward this style of play. |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.05 07:29:00 -
[208] - Quote
If they are going to have different stats so that you select one based on your needs then I don't see how you can keep the ice or gas mining bonuses.
Point in case;
I want to mine ore, but I want the optimal EHP. So I'd pick the Skiff and fly off to go mine some ore... oh wait... Skiff has bonus to Gas mining? Guess going for the biggest EHP if I wanted to mine ore was a bad idea.
Oh well, lets try a Mackinaw then. It's not as much EHP as the SKiff, but at least it should still have decent EHP and a solid cargobay... oh wait... Mackinaw has bonus to Ice mining? Guess going for the decently EHP ship with good cargo was a bad idea.
Seems I'll have to do what I always did... grab a Hulk if I want to go mine regular ore, and thus be forced to use the minimum EHP ship for that.
Given the above example it seems quite pointless if they are going to give us the option to select a ship based on EHP, mining yield and cargo, and then still keep them "locked" in a specific role due to ship bonuses. Basically that means the ice miners always fly the biggest cargohold ship due to the ice bonus and not because they prefer more EHP or increased cargo, but because of the bonus to ice mining.
If this is going to make sense they all need similar bonuses and the variations need to be in the EHP, cargo and yield... not the ice, gas or ore specific bonus they have today. |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 08:12:00 -
[209] - Quote
dexington wrote:As i said the Retriever/Skiff is designed for afk mining, which i don't mind people doing, i just find it strange ccp decides to reward this style of play.
I understand your point about the large cargospace being more ideal for AFK-miners. However, there are alot more people playing the game than just AFK'ers.
There are several people playing the game that do not have alts or 2nd accounts. I have RL friends who play the game but don't want to keep two accounts running, but they enjoy logging into the game and go mining in belts to gather some ore/minerals to either go sell, or to give to me so I can build things they require, such as mining crystals or ammunition.
Having a mining barge with a bigger cargo hold enables them to stay in the belts and mine without being punished for supplying the EVE market with the raw materials that keep everything going. Noone, and I mean NOONE enjoyes warping back and forth to a station every 5 minutes because the cargohold is full.
That is the very reason why people start second accounts in the first place... to avoid the jetcan mining and the constant warping.
And yes, the obvious argument is, get a friend to haul for you... but lets be realistic. Would you want to split your profits in half by having someone sit and stare at the jetcan? And would you be the one sitting there staring at the jetcan for half profits on an ore/mineral sale if you could rather be out there doing missions or mining yourself?
Besides, if you really want to afk mine you can just stick a mining laser on a transport ship, survey the largest rock and fire it up. That's what alot of the afk miners do anyways. Most other miners are actively moving ore onto their hauler alts, or they have exhumers with large holds and just fill those up then warp to stations.
Even though a miner might look AFK to you as you swing by a belt in your combat fitted ship that doesn't mean they are AFK. They are filling up their cans, or their 10-13.000m3 cargoholds... giving the exhumers larger cargoholds just means a convenience for those that actually take the time to train up exhumers and take the time flying to belts to mine.
I could just as easily turn it around and say that sentry drones are designed for AFK mission running. Dual-LAR2 Dominix with T2 sentries is just as AFK (perhaps even more since you don't have to switch targets like a miner has to when the rocks break) as anyone doing mining in an exhumer with a large cargohold. Sentry drones might not be as efficient as actively shooting stuff, but efficiency is hardly then goal when AFK'ing anything (hence why we have Badgers with Mining lasers on them).
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dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
24
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Posted - 2012.07.05 10:20:00 -
[210] - Quote
I may have exaggerated the uselessness of the Retriever/Mackinaw. I have done a lot of ore hauling in a Badger MK II, with expanded cargohold and cargohold optimization rigs, and i guess the ore hold means you can skip that part.
All in all the new designs are probably okay, they give each of the ships their own little niche. I don't think it's going to result in a lot of changes in-game, but i guess it may make life a little easier for new miners. |
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