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Zun thar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 12:45:51 Hi.. EVE nub here.
Was wondering.. what are my options gonna be like for pvp once i'm trained up some and financially ready to get pwned.. is the game all large fleet activity, or can i find enjoyment solo and/or in small groups?
Big group stuff is cool, but i lean more towards solo and small group pvp in most games.
I've know a bunch of people that have left EVE due to 'blobbing' being the only option... please tell me they were just doing something wrong.
This is an awesome game, but i don't wanna waste months building up a character if larger force conflict is all there is..
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Zeredek
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:45:00 -
[2]
Good question --------- rawr |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:45:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Zun thar
Exactly, there is no endgame apart from what you want to do.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Alliance creation service, also corp updates |
Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:48:00 -
[4]
You choose your goal
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Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:51:00 -
[5]
er my 'end game' is every time I log off, making sure I have actually docked up, my clone's medical is up to date and I have a long skill queue set.
Why are you looking to 'end game' in a sandbox?
Sounds like wow speak for 'Hi guys, I finally made it to level 50, can I raid with you now? Oh I don't have enough magenta for you? I can totally rainbow myself up for you!' sorta nonsense where you spend rest of your life doing exactly the same thing over and over until you can literally run the dungeons with your eyes closed.
Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source.
pretty deep coming from you |
Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:51:00 -
[6]
You'll never be financially ready.
Dont make the mistake of farming missions for years in hi-sec. Once your able to farm level 4's solo then your ALWAYS going to have a good fallback should the worst happen.
But if you get yourself into a 0.0 corp then you'll find that ISK is not hard to make, thats why when some people go there they never come back.
0.0 to me is end game.. well, its also beginning of the game really. Its the beginning of the end ;)
Dare to be bold pilot
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 18/11/2009 13:04:31
Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 12:45:51 Hi.. EVE nub here.
Was wondering.. what are my options gonna be like for pvp once i'm trained up some and financially ready to get pwned.. is the game all large fleet activity, or can i find enjoyment solo and/or in small groups?
Big group stuff is cool, but i lean more towards solo and small group pvp in most games.
I've know a bunch of people that have left EVE due to 'blobbing' being the only option... please tell me they were just doing something wrong.
This is an awesome game, but i don't wanna waste months building up a character if larger force conflict is all there is..
There's many sorts of gameplay and as there is no lvl 80 and no 'ultimate gear' or a Sword of a thousand truths you can completely forget about having to grind or meeting some ingame goal that's being dangled in front of you like a carrot. PVP wise there's so many options, ways, specialisations and whatnot. It can be a solo thing, small gang, high sec, low sec or 0.0, cloaker gangs, BS fleets etc. In other words; the endgame is what you want to make it, at that point. You might enjoy doing low sec piracy for a bit, then switch to 0.0. perhaps run some complexes or setup a corp, they're all goals, personal goals.
Do what you like and stop thinking you have to grind (isk) before you're allowed to have fun.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Alliance creation service, also corp updates |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar Ghost Festival Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:05:00 -
[8]
There is no 'end game'.
Eve is a virtual universe, not a linear path to an end.
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Zun thar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 13:13:32 Spurty.. did you even READ my post?
I understand it is a sandbox game.
I am not asking what is possible, i am asking what HAPPENS in reality.
I know i can skill up and rig my ship for whatever i want , but the only thing that really matters when it comes to pvp is what OTHER people are doing, hence my question
Am i going to get ganked by huge groups of people everywhere i go if i am not part of a large fleet? Or are there other people out there looking for the same?
I ask because to me, the former is uninspiring, boring gameplay.
I guess basically i am hoping to hear that people survive and thrive with my preferred playstyle. I don't want to be FORCED to fall into a group and go everywhere with my corp.. there is nothing at all sandbox about that.
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Kirana Si
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 13:13:32 I am not asking what is possible, i am asking what HAPPENS in reality.
The reality is:
- you join an corp/alliance in 0.0 - if there is no major war going on you go roam in hostile space to gank carebears with 20% of your alli m8s while the other 80% of your alliance carebear and get ganked by hostile roaming gangs , then they start whining on forums why there are no defense gangs to defend them. - when a major war starts you are forced to join defense/offense fleets if you online while others who have out of corp/alli alts just play on them to be able to still carebear - whining on your alli forum starts - in these fleets you wait hours for your enemy/or your FC to grow some balls, that normally happens 5min after you logged bored to hell off - more whining on your forum + lots of flames from your enemies on CAOD over leaked intel from spys within your alli - the "in your alli" carebears will also stock your local hub with overpriced stuff to make a decent profit over your losses - rage/sarcasm/motivating speeches from your alli leader on your forum - when shiat hits the fan and you lose your space the carebears leave your corp/alli, buy off all firesales from PVPers only to join the now new spaceholder and the story starts again
Thats how EVE endgame works.
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zun thar I am not asking what is possible, i am asking what HAPPENS in reality.
It's very much up to you mate. Classically I guess the end-game would be joining a 0.0 alliance, claiming space and taking part in the Sov-wars but that is only one option among many.
It's also perfectly viable and possible to play a "lone wolf" though it is much much harder to so. You'll be losing many more ships - especially while you're learning the ropes. I think that's the main reason why certain people claim "blobbing is the only option". It isn't - it's just the easiest option and requires the least player-skill and knowledge of the game. But as long as you can deal with not having much success for the first few months (due to lacking experience) I think this path is just as much an option as alliance blob-warfare (which isn't as bad as it often is made to sound tbh).
It's the same story with small-gang PVP. This is perfectly viable and a worthy end-game goal. You just need to look for a few friends or a good corp that specializes in small-gang action. Or perhaps even a mercenary corp which also could be great fun.
But basically the EVE end-game is what you make of it. Just do what's fun and don't forget: never fly a ship you can't afford to lose, especially not when soloing.
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Zun thar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:55:00 -
[12]
The last two posts were exactly the kind of info i was looking for. TY :)
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Jaketh Shae
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.18 14:16:00 -
[13]
There's a few things that people do as a PvP based 'end game,' although most people will probably more than one of these throughout their EVE career.
First off 0.0/Sov warfare has already been mentioned, although plenty of corps/alliances make their fun living in NPC 0.0 space and doing roams, etc. so there is some alternative in 0.0 to the big Sov warfare.
Then there's lowsec piracy/PVP. These aren't exactly the same thing but ransoming is one of the main methods to actually make some ISK whilst focussing on PVP in lowsec. And many people live their EVE lives down in lowsec doing just that. Don't expect your sec status to survive without copious ratting as well though.
Then there's mercenary work. There's plenty of merc corps around, some of which are very, very good at what they do and plenty of players are quite happy with the merc life.
There's also the high sec 'griefer'/pirate corps. Again plenty of people have their fun in EVE going down that route. That's using game mechanics/social engineering to get people to aggro you (so can baiting, ninja looting, local smack, etc.) or just wardeccing corps.
There's other options too like FW, although I think that most people dip into this rather than making it their EVE career. I'm sure some do though.
Finally, if you want to learn PVP (and if you have a character and the right mentality you're ready to learn, forget anyone who tells you it's all about the ISK or the skill points) then I'd suggest either getting onto a PVP training course with someone like Agony or EVE Uni or joining Red vs Blue. (My preference would be Red vs Blue but that's because I've had an absolute blast doing that myself.)
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Thargorr
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.18 14:33:00 -
[14]
Kirana Si has the right of it, and that's why my endgame is losec piracy where I supply my own balls and can pick a fight with whoever I want when I wanna fight and dock up and smack in local when the blob retaliates.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2009.11.18 14:34:00 -
[15]
Quote: Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 13:13:32 I am not asking what is possible, i am asking what HAPPENS in reality.
The reality is:
- you join an corp/alliance in 0.0 - if there is no major war going on you go roam in hostile space to gank carebears with 20% of your alli m8s while the other 80% of your alliance carebear and get ganked by hostile roaming gangs , then they start whining on forums why there are no defense gangs to defend them. - when a major war starts you are forced to join defense/offense fleets if you online while others who have out of corp/alli alts just play on them to be able to still carebear - whining on your alli forum starts - in these fleets you wait hours for your enemy/or your FC to grow some balls, that normally happens 5min after you logged bored to hell off - more whining on your forum + lots of flames from your enemies on CAOD over leaked intel from spys within your alli - the "in your alli" carebears will also stock your local hub with overpriced stuff to make a decent profit over your losses - rage/sarcasm/motivating speeches from your alli leader on your forum - when shiat hits the fan and you lose your space the carebears leave your corp/alli, buy off all firesales from PVPers only to join the now new spaceholder and the story starts again
Thats how EVE endgame works.
Not only does this person have an uncanny grasp on 0.0 existence he/she has totally depressed me. |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:08:00 -
[16]
LOL, isn't that the truth about null sec. Good reason guys like me avoid it in the "end game." I spent my first year in a mix of high and null sec. I did some missioning, some mining, some alliance warfare (great way to go broke and be bored at the same time) and a bit of high sec griefing. After all that I moved to low sec piracy and have enjoyed it greatly. Sometimes I fly with fleets of up to 10 ships, most of the time I fly solo or with 1-2 buddies.
Realistically, low sec pvp consists of:
1) You locate 2 day old rookie who doesn't know what low sec is and waste him with your ship (doesn't matter which, you can't go wrong). It's fun if not particularly challenging.
2) You locate a 4 month old character in a mission, your buddy probes him out and you attempt to ransom him. 80% of the time he won't pay so you end up popping him. Loot is almost always trash, sometimes it's worth 2 billion isk though. Good times either way.
3) You camp a gate, staring at it for 3 hours only to watch a blockade runner laugh at your futile attempts to kill him. You log off bored and empty handed.
4) A lone unsupported capital ship undocks from your home station, you bump him off station and beat the crap out of him. He may or may not pay a ransom. Either way that's the highlight of the next month or two.
5) You find a "noob" in a belt and melt his face.
6) You attack a "noob" in a belt only to have 15 of his buddies suddenly appear in system. Oops!
7) You attack a "noob" in a belt and actually get killed by him 1v1, or 4 of you vs him.
8) Sometimes you are the above "noob."
In any case, it's typically fun and you can make a living in game off it. It does have times where you are bored silly though. I spent 4 hours online earlier this week and did nothing but stare at rocks, a gate and the inside of the station cause not a single player entered my low sec pocket. Other days I kill 15 ships in 2-3 hours and make a billion isk. Alternatively you may lose that much too. -----------------------------------------------------
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Suboran
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:32:00 -
[17]
There is no 'endgame' you start the game the same as you are 3 years on exept without experience or money.
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dtyk
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kirana Si
Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 13:13:32 I am not asking what is possible, i am asking what HAPPENS in reality.
The reality is:
- you join an corp/alliance in 0.0 - if there is no major war going on you go roam in hostile space to gank carebears with 20% of your alli m8s while the other 80% of your alliance carebear and get ganked by hostile roaming gangs , then they start whining on forums why there are no defense gangs to defend them. - when a major war starts you are forced to join defense/offense fleets if you online while others who have out of corp/alli alts just play on them to be able to still carebear - whining on your alli forum starts - in these fleets you wait hours for your enemy/or your FC to grow some balls, that normally happens 5min after you logged bored to hell off - more whining on your forum + lots of flames from your enemies on CAOD over leaked intel from spys within your alli - the "in your alli" carebears will also stock your local hub with overpriced stuff to make a decent profit over your losses - rage/sarcasm/motivating speeches from your alli leader on your forum - when shiat hits the fan and you lose your space the carebears leave your corp/alli, buy off all firesales from PVPers only to join the now new spaceholder and the story starts again
Thats how EVE endgame works.
The reality is that that's bull****. That only happens if you're doing it wrong. Sure, powerblocks doing 700v20 is boring. So why the **** would you do that? Small gangs/larger gangs with actual action and equally numbered opponents does happen. Some people just can't find it. Solo finding suitable targets (don't outnumber you 10 to 1) is hard, but possible. But even with 5 people, finding targets is easier. Of course, in a huge blob the only way to have fun is fight other huge blobs. So don't go blob. Over 40 in fleet, and you'll have trouble finding targets that will give a good fight. Under that and it's not too bad. Bigger than that fleets shouldn't happen unless you know there's someone with an equally large fleet next door coming to steal your pos/moongoo/internet saceships/whatever anyway.
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Oriens Pars
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zun thar Was wondering.. what are my options gonna be like for pvp once i'm trained up some and financially ready to get pwned.. is the game all large fleet activity, or can i find enjoyment solo and/or in small groups?
Big group stuff is cool, but i lean more towards solo and small group pvp in most games.
Well, if what you want is solo/small gang stuff you're wasting your time, UNLESS you get into a ship NOW and start actually learning how to PvP in the ships that are currently available to you. If you wait til you think you're financially ready you won't have the slightest clue as to how to use the ship you eventually get into and lose....cause you will lose it.....lots. Not to mention you'll be sitting around for months, possibly even more than a year before you feel you're ready.....THAT'S a waste of time.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.18 15:48:00 -
[20]
I enjoy solo a lot of the time. There used to be no real haven a soloer could REALLY enjoy, but now it is in the form of raiding WH's :) --
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2009.11.18 16:59:00 -
[21]
You can have my stuff when they pry my mouse from my cold, dead fingers.
That's the endgame, bub.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Alezander Jagen
JagenCorp Combat Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:10:00 -
[22]
Eve endgame = more experience and more money (at least I hope you have more money) than when you started.
0.0 is not endgame. You could potentially be 2 minutes old and join a 0.0 alliance. Eve = sandbox, and thus has no endgame. Find something you enjoy doing. Do that until you're bored with doing it. Find something else, do that. Get bored, take a break from eve itself. Rinse, repeat.
What you're asking is for us to create you an endgame. We're giving you what it actually is-choices.
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SomebodyKickedMyDog
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: SomebodyKickedMyDog on 18/11/2009 17:25:22 some options for solo/small fleet pvp (others may add to this):
- can games in major hub systems. drop a can and wait for someone to take it, or take someone else's can and hope his corp mates don't jump you. occasionally you can get some pretty good action this way, but a lot of times you're just sitting around waiting. announcing in local that you're looking for a 1v1 helps sometimes. overall it can sometimes be decent but definitely not the best option.
- low sec roaming. your best bet would probably be to go to a spot that's known to be active; for example, the top belt in amamake. stay at least 150-200km off the belt and see who warps in. the amount of activity varies. sometimes it can be pretty dead; other times, quite a lot of people show up. of course even during the active times that doesn't necessarily mean someone with a similar ship class that you can have a good fight against will show up (or be alone, or will want to fight you).
- join a pvp corp that does a lot of small fleet ops.
- faction warfare. solo pvp is even a challenge to find in fw, but you'll have more targets than otherwise. you might have good luck with a fw corp that's not into the large fleet battles.
- red vs blue. rvb kicks ass! nuff said. join r-v-b channel in game if you want some more info.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:29:00 -
[24]
Nullsec can be great fun if you find an alliance that suits you.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:47:00 -
[25]
Endgame for me was starting a small wormhole exploration / exploitation corp and slowly moving our way up the chain. We get the benefit of 0.0 without the pains of local and hotdrops.
We completed our first Class 4 site recently, and having a blast doing it as a group.
This game really does allow you do do pretty much anything you want.
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Zun thar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 19:05:23
Originally by: Alezander Jagen Eve endgame = more experience and more money (at least I hope you have more money) than when you started.
0.0 is not endgame. You could potentially be 2 minutes old and join a 0.0 alliance. Eve = sandbox, and thus has no endgame. Find something you enjoy doing. Do that until you're bored with doing it. Find something else, do that. Get bored, take a break from eve itself. Rinse, repeat.
What you're asking is for us to create you an endgame. We're giving you what it actually is-choices.
I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.
My last game, Pirates of the burning Sea, has the best damn pvp combat you will ever find in an MMO, but %90 of the population was made up of unskilled gankers and failboaters. I left and came here because i was sick of spending most of my time PRAYING i'd run into someone with the skill and balls to give me a good fight.
I came here simply due to the large population.. figuring i would find more action.
It is my experience that in a pvp game with a fairly complex combat engine, the majority of the population will end up rolling in gankpacks looking for low risk situations and avoiding any significant risk. This is not good gaming, and if that is also the case here in EVE, i'd rather not invest thousands of hours of my life before finding the same problems.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 19:05:23
Originally by: Alezander Jagen Eve endgame = more experience and more money (at least I hope you have more money) than when you started.
0.0 is not endgame. You could potentially be 2 minutes old and join a 0.0 alliance. Eve = sandbox, and thus has no endgame. Find something you enjoy doing. Do that until you're bored with doing it. Find something else, do that. Get bored, take a break from eve itself. Rinse, repeat.
What you're asking is for us to create you an endgame. We're giving you what it actually is-choices.
I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.
My last game, Pirates of the burning Sea, has the best damn pvp combat you will ever find in an MMO, but %90 of the population was made up of unskilled gankers and failboaters. I left and came here because i was sick of spending most of my time PRAYING i'd run into someone with the skill and balls to give me a good fight.
I came here simply due to the large population.. figuring i would find more action.
It is my experience that in a pvp game with a fairly complex combat engine, the majority of the population will end up rolling in gankpacks looking for low risk situations and avoiding any significant risk. This is not good gaming, and if that is also the case here in EVE, i'd rather not invest thousands of hours of my life before finding the same problems.
I guess you need to find a game that is not mainly played by humans. I'm not gonna lie to you: a lot of PvP is as you describe.
Sometimes it isn't, though, and that's why we play.
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Belmarduk
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.11.18 19:43:00 -
[28]
There is no endgame in Eve - Only people without imagination who get bored doing the same thing over and over again..
Mainchar:
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Savage Roar
O X I D E
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:16:00 -
[29]
If you're not flying a titan you haven't reached the end of the endgame yet.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal If I ever need an alligator at 3am, I now know where to find one!
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zun thar Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 19:05:23
Originally by: Alezander Jagen Eve endgame = more experience and more money (at least I hope you have more money) than when you started.
0.0 is not endgame. You could potentially be 2 minutes old and join a 0.0 alliance. Eve = sandbox, and thus has no endgame. Find something you enjoy doing. Do that until you're bored with doing it. Find something else, do that. Get bored, take a break from eve itself. Rinse, repeat.
What you're asking is for us to create you an endgame. We're giving you what it actually is-choices.
I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.
My last game, Pirates of the burning Sea, has the best damn pvp combat you will ever find in an MMO, but %90 of the population was made up of unskilled gankers and failboaters. I left and came here because i was sick of spending most of my time PRAYING i'd run into someone with the skill and balls to give me a good fight.
I came here simply due to the large population.. figuring i would find more action.
It is my experience that in a pvp game with a fairly complex combat engine, the majority of the population will end up rolling in gankpacks looking for low risk situations and avoiding any significant risk. This is not good gaming, and if that is also the case here in EVE, i'd rather not invest thousands of hours of my life before finding the same problems.
In eve, winning in PvP means someone else lost out. Not just lost in the FPS deathmatch sense where you respawn 5 seconds later with the same equipment but lost as in lost weeks worth of work and never getting it back. That's what makes it more exciting and more interesting. The problem with fair fights is that it gets people killed. If you want to honor tank, fight fair and duel you can always drop cans in high-sec and hope. There's no PvP flagging, no duel mechanics, no laws except concordokken. Fairness is nothing but a set of artificial rules that only matter if all parties abide by them. Now excuse me while I go boom-headshot someone's little monopoly on T2 ammo for their region. /not signed, key length too small |
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