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Jack Coutu
Gallente Duty.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 04:18:00 -
[1]
Can someone at CCP confirm or deny this? It seems to be live on the test server, and if you think getting 50 LP a night killing blobs of idiots in FW is going to convince anyone to join FW to get these new ships you made, you are really really wrong. FW missions need to be there if you want anyone to use your new creations, or are you CCP folks listening to Nozh again? Did he say the "augmented" drones worked really well so this idea would too?
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:46:00 -
[2]
they have been nerfed. But i wonder if they are being reworked or removed - so ccp doesnt want anyone to have factional navy ships ( domi, armageddon etc) seems very counter productive Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.11.23 08:24:00 -
[3]
The "no penaly from decline" thing is far too lenient and made them trivial .. free LP for those who did it basically.
I doubt they will be gone come December but the penalty is probably going to come back, at least until CCP can figure out what they can do with them.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 09:16:00 -
[4]
how about simply seperating fw mission lp and assocaited offers and then having ship kill lp and assocaited module and ship offers ( could be priced accordingly) and seperated
Would still allow the factional warfare pew pewers to do their thing and the missin runners their thing ( all the missions should push them into low sec though in some way) Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Izanami Rei
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.23 13:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: HeliosGal how about simply seperating fw mission lp and assocaited offers and then having ship kill lp and assocaited module and ship offers ( could be priced accordingly) and seperated
Would still allow the factional warfare pew pewers to do their thing and the missin runners their thing ( all the missions should push them into low sec though in some way)
First of all, LP is LP, FW mission runners and pvpers are already able to do their things seperatly and frankly the lp on ship kills is very low, you do not get any standing for killing ships either, meaning that enemies that donÆt do missions or plexes will not build a multiplier to give you higher LP for killing them. Frankly noone should ever expect to achive anything by killing other players other than the loot and the.
Second of all, All imput is valued, but I frankly get the impression you dont know how FW missions work. All FW missions start in Lowsec, makes you travel atleast 5 jumps through lowsec (IÆve seen more than a few asking me to go 15 jumps) and has to be completed in lowsec. When you arrive to the mission, every pirate and wartarget in the system are provided with a beacon in their overview, that allows them to instantly warp to your mission. All so they can attack your PVE fittet ship.
Thats how it works, if the missions wern't somewhat quick (and most of the lvl 4 ones arnÆt) you would never be able to complete them as hostile players would interfere, drive you out of the mission or kill you. FW missions are nothing like highsec missions.
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Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:23:00 -
[6]
i would like to know as well what will happend to FW missions
the new navy ships will be very rare if people have to do 20-30 jumps (from agent to mission and back) for 1 mission, especially since there are also quite bad missions with very low reward
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 23/11/2009 22:25:59
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno i would like to know as well what will happend to FW missions
the new navy ships will be very rare if people have to do 20-30 jumps (from agent to mission and back) for 1 mission, especially since there are also quite bad missions with very low reward
CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector.
There are some things that need fixing. The infinite declining is a problem and should be limited to one decline or fail per hour, faction wide (so no running off to another agent), and like R&D agents, corp standings should not give access to the agents (to prevent recycled alts and trial accounts from cycling through missions).
In addition neutrals shouldn't be able to enter and complete these missions. I know it is sucky for the pirates there, but its the lesser of the two evils as right now non-FW players are completing these missions so the opposing factions cannot interfere without incurring standing loss.
That and the Gallente and Amarr rats need a buff, I ran a few of the L4 missions in cruisers for testing purposes and they're a cakewalk as the NPCs miss all the time. I hear a lot of people complete these things in stealth bombers too, hah. ---
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T'san Manaan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah rabble, rabble, rabble.
Please stop trying to ruin FW. everytime you post something I cringe because it will ruin the game I enjoy playing.
I run FW missions a couple nights a week to pay for the pvp I do on the weekends, scanning through and cherry picking the ones that I just have to kill the "sector commander" I can run 4 missions an hour. again this is in low sec, average distance is 6-7 jumps away from the system I take the mission from and the average payout is 500k with the time bonus and 2-3k worth of lp which is enough to buy 1 firetail.
The average price of a firetail is around 30m right now with the low around 25m and the high around 40m. This means I am making around 30m an hour (this is comparable to high sec mission runners but I do it in low sec with the risk of being cought and killed which happens more than I would like to admit). As it stands I can probably make more an hour doing high sec missions if you factor in the ship losses. The point of faction warfare is to draw people out of highsec and into PVP and lowsec which it is just barely able to do.
Of course there are a few "power gamers" who take advantage but there will always be no matter what you do. The best part of FW missions is the ability to decline crappy missions, why would I play a game that forces me to run ****ty missions that I don't want to do? It defeats the whole point of playing a game. If I wanted to do ****ty tasks that are no fun I would have stayed at work and saved my $15 a month.
In short stop posting as you are activly engaged in trying to screw over other people and I'm getting sick of it.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:51:00 -
[9]
Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it.
The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income.
We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. ---
Click banner for info! |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.24 02:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next.
I have a feeling CCP is perfectly aware of the fw mission spamming as it was planned that way to get people interested in running the missions and moast importantly making sure there are plenty of the new navy hulls for sale on D-day. Almost every fw mission runner I know has at the very least several million lp saved so even if ccp does nerf dial a mission then all it will do is drive the worth of fw lp to astronomical levels. Also rumour has it that the amarr and gallente guys are now revising launch prices for navy geddons and domis to break 2 bil if ccp does nerf fw missions. Either way I'm going to make a crap ton of isk off it regardless of what ccp does with the missions and still be swimming in navy ships to use for normal fw pew pew. However personally I don't think they are going to nerf them past stealth changes like changing the actual missions themselves to stop afterburning bombers from farming level 4 fw missions for 25k+ lp a pop which to me is the only real 'exploit' as a flying a bomber is basically risk free unless you desync at a gate camp and they pop you.
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.24 06:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zeba I don't think they are going to nerf them past stealth changes like changing the actual missions themselves to stop afterburning bombers from farming level 4 fw missions for 25k+ lp a pop which to me is the only real 'exploit' as a flying a bomber is basically risk free unless you desync at a gate camp and they pop you.
This, please this. I have no trouble with them selecting their destination, but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.24 06:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs?
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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Rato Kaalonnen
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Posted - 2009.11.24 08:22:00 -
[13]
The core problem with these missions is that you can decline them without any negative effects, thus allowing you to cherry-pick them.
Running them with an alt does NOT work since all of those I got were the "Go there, kill stuff" type (granted, I did not have the standings to do L3+ ones but I doubt there are haulage missions). These missions happen in a deadspace and the location of this deadspace is only present on the mission holder. The mission and the beacon only spawns once the mission holder warps to it.
But the "fly 30 jumps" point is moot. There are SP stations in Eha and the next system one jump from Gallente territory. You simply spam the agents until you get a mission situated in Oicx. Oicx is so full of Caldari militia members (some running FW missions, some actually taking part in FW) that any Gallente militia member is quickly chased out of system.
The only risk you take here is getting RSI from all the clicking you have to do until both agents gave you a mission in Oicx.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.24 09:00:00 -
[14]
so put the usual 4 hour limitations on em or sec hit its easy Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.24 10:15:00 -
[15]
i only agree that amarr and gallente npc's need a big buff.
minmatar npc's are extremly overpower with target painting + mass missle spam
using neutral characters to do the missions is something that cant be solved easily and will also not be fixed by removing the decline option. it will just make more people use neutrals because you can traven through hostile low sec much easier in a neutral char than your FW one.
but using neutrals has one big downside, your faction standing towards that faction will be -10 very fast and that will confine that char from this high sec part for almost forever.
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Trabber Shir
Caldari 5I Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.24 10:18:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Trabber Shir on 24/11/2009 10:22:06 It sounds like the problem Rato is talking about could be fixed by just preventing agents from giving destinations that are less than some arbitrary number of jumps away. I would say 5 makes a nice round number.
Edit: As for the neutrals completing them, why not just make shooting the rats in these missions have the same effects as repping someone in FW (hostile to the opposing militias for x minutes iirc, it has been a while since i payed attention to FW)?
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.24 10:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Trabber Shir Edited by: Trabber Shir on 24/11/2009 10:22:06 It sounds like the problem Rato is talking about could be fixed by just preventing agents from giving destinations that are less than some arbitrary number of jumps away. I would say 5 makes a nice round number.
Edit: As for the neutrals completing them, why not just make shooting the rats in these missions have the same effects as repping someone in FW (hostile to the opposing militias for x minutes iirc, it has been a while since i payed attention to FW)?
can the game mechanikcs allow this type of flagging though Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Trabber Shir
Caldari 5I Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:08:00 -
[18]
For the jumps to target in missions, I have no idea, depending on how missions and agents are implemented it could be a simple change or a literally impossible one.
For the effects of shooting rats, it depends on how different NPC corps and player corps are under the hood. In principle if I understand the existing ownership mechanic correctly you should just have to make those rats the property of the FW corp.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:44:00 -
[19]
I would personally like to know what are CCP's intentions regarding FW missions. I want to see the patch notes for dominion, saying what is exactly going to be done so i can plan accordingly. If they nerf the ability to skip missions until i get to run them in the constellation where I want them you can expect to see your 2 bil navy domis in a couple of months and I am very happy with that. I can adapt to run missions wherever when I need money, specially since the LP will be worth a lot more.
If they do not nerf the skip thing then we will continue to farm LP until its not worth to do so anymore and Navy Domis will be selling for 250mil each. I rather not have it go this way but its fine regardless, would still allow me to make pretty isk when required. But you have to understand that if nothing is done some small groups of people are able to farm 1000K LP in a few days (of about 10 hrs total) of work, which devaluates the LP for the others of us who don't have the time nor the will to farm LP in an industrial scale.
I also think that since caldaris can run their FW missions in SB because gallente npcs use blasters only has to be changed. We in the gal mil have to run our missions in Drakes, Ishtars, Domis, Ravens and have to deal with annoying ECM, sometimes sacrificing midslots for ECCM mods.
If the missions are nerfed... how fair is that some people have to roam one of the most dangerous places in EVE with BCs, BSs and HACs while others can safely move around with their cloaky SBs? You gotta find a way to equalize empire NPCs to use long range weapons and EW weapons that have the same effect. ECM and torps that hit to 100km are better than sensor damps and blasters that hit to 5km.
And while we are at it, maybe you should allow for plexes completed in contested systems to give LP payouts similar to missions. I was thinking 10-30K lp shared between the capping fleet, depending on plex size, but make sure you can't solo the plex and you have to kill all the rats tp prevent exploits. This way people will be able to get their LP and fights will occur everywhere for the LP, but if people BLOB they will get smaller payouts, forcing smaller more efficient fleets to fight in conjunction. But PLEASE equalize ALL the empire NPCS to use the same EW and use the same weapons, stop favoring selected groups of people!
Can we get a CCP employee to let us know what is up with this please? I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR A RESPONSE! THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:25:00 -
[20]
perhaps ccp have no solution and the current inbalance in favour of caldari will remain ? ccp communication needed on this thread whats being done. Dev blog perhaps
We know its not capital ships and the big bang whiiz bang stuff that attracts customers but tis the smaller things niche stuff that keeps players paying to play the game. More mission variance ( shorter range missions with quicker objectives and perhaps less LP) being added to the overall mission pool might work to Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:44:00 -
[21]
'Factional Warfare' and 'Mission Running' .. aren't those supposed to be completely different things? I mean, from what I know FW was supposed to be a stepping-stone into PvP and probably 0.0. Not sneaky alt-abusing lowsec mission running. Or did I miss the memo?
I can't grasp it. Who the hell thought that would be a good concept?
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Deva Blackfire
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs?
Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds.
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Kuronaga
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: T'san Manaan
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah rabble, rabble, rabble.
Please stop trying to ruin FW. everytime you post something I cringe because it will ruin the game I enjoy playing.
I run FW missions a couple nights a week to pay for the pvp I do on the weekends, scanning through and cherry picking the ones that I just have to kill the "sector commander" I can run 4 missions an hour. again this is in low sec, average distance is 6-7 jumps away from the system I take the mission from and the average payout is 500k with the time bonus and 2-3k worth of lp which is enough to buy 1 firetail.
The average price of a firetail is around 30m right now with the low around 25m and the high around 40m. This means I am making around 30m an hour (this is comparable to high sec mission runners but I do it in low sec with the risk of being cought and killed which happens more than I would like to admit). As it stands I can probably make more an hour doing high sec missions if you factor in the ship losses. The point of faction warfare is to draw people out of highsec and into PVP and lowsec which it is just barely able to do.
Of course there are a few "power gamers" who take advantage but there will always be no matter what you do. The best part of FW missions is the ability to decline crappy missions, why would I play a game that forces me to run ****ty missions that I don't want to do? It defeats the whole point of playing a game. If I wanted to do ****ty tasks that are no fun I would have stayed at work and saved my $15 a month.
In short stop posting as you are activly engaged in trying to screw over other people and I'm getting sick of it.
Translation: Your opinion is different then mine and I demand -- DEMAND you silence yourself, good sir!
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: HeliosGal perhaps ccp have no solution and the current inbalance in favour of caldari will remain ? ccp communication needed on this thread whats being done. Dev blog perhaps
We know its not capital ships and the big bang whiiz bang stuff that attracts customers but tis the smaller things niche stuff that keeps players paying to play the game. More mission variance ( shorter range missions with quicker objectives and perhaps less LP) being added to the overall mission pool might work to
In favour of Caldari ? Lol ? Compared to other races, Caldari are totally screwed with missions because of the upcoming navy ships: The navy Dominix for example will be in high demand by drone lvl 4 mission runners and Gallente can ask as much as they like, lvl 4 highsec missionrunners have deep pockets. Caldari get a 4th raven ("navy scorp" which is not very scorpy) that is actually worse than a standard raven and much worse than a CNR: no missile speed makes it useless for torps (15km range), cruise missiles are dead after the last missile "balance", the damage of the navy scorp is that of a standard raven and who needs so much medslots anyways ? It makes no sense for PVE, it makes no sense for pvp, it's a completely useless ship that no one will want to buy. Means Caldari can only ask around 2k/lp at best for the already existing items, while the other races, especially Gallente, will get extremely rich in Dominion. This is unfair and has to be fixed.
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 18:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR A RESPONSE! THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
Look I dont mean to be rude but CCP has more pressing matters to look into right now than caring about what is pretty much an extension of the tutorial.
Truth is each thread like this distracts ccp from eves serious content such as motherships and titans. Proof: motherships changes have been delayed Thanks a lot champ...
So please STFU about your B grade gameplay and let this forum section to people who actually play this game the way it is meant to be played.
- Gob
________ Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.24 19:46:00 -
[26]
First, caldari isk/lp ratio is much higher than gallente's because lvl4 runners use CNRs and ravens instead: Look at caldari navy invuls and ballistic control launchers etc to see the price difference.
Second, it would take 5 minutes for a ccp person to say what they are doing about this and when and I would be satisfied, so they can ignore the 20Thoudsand of us and go cater to the 400 MOM pilots.
Don't forget that we will supply ALL the navy Domis in eve, all the 250ish of them. And If missions get nerfed, that's about as many as you will ever see.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs?
Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds.
Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly.
[Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector.
Why are you commenting on something you clearly know sod all about ? The char. that accepts the mission has to be in the mission system to warp to the beacon and hence has to make all the jusmps between agent and mission. You "alt" claim is BS.
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Overdogs
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Admiral Goberius Look I dont mean to be rude but CCP has more pressing matters to look into right now than caring about what is pretty much an extension of the tutorial.
Truth is each thread like this distracts ccp from eves serious content such as motherships and titans. Proof: motherships changes have been delayed Thanks a lot champ...
So please STFU about your B grade gameplay and let this forum section to people who actually play this game the way it is meant to be played.
- Gob
Just quoting this because it is too funny.
HEY look at me everybody i got a SERIOUS Titan!
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Deva Blackfire
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs?
Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds.
Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly.
[Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Last time i tried this i got instapopped (before i even launched AB that is). Think it was 'cost of hubris'.
Anyways i dont care, I use ceptor to draw aggro. Safer and easier method plus i can always cloak bomber when some guests come into mission room. |
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