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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:20:00 -
[1]
Really, the ships graphics are very cool in Eve, but all i see in battles are red crosses firing on me :(. In the trailer you see a lot of ships and so, but in real, you mostly see only points instead of ships. I think its because of the enormous ranges in eve, the weapons are firing. While this is maybe realistic, i think for the battles its not very cool. I am not even a long range fighter (15-20 km range) and i cant see anything except me. What do you veterans think about that?
Would reducing ranges help to make battles visually more interesting? (sure this would need some more changes to be balanced)
Please, dont come and say that there are also short range pvp players which you may see in battle, because i speak about the common situation in the game like missions. I think its so sad that you dont see the best part of the game in battles
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:26:00 -
[2]
I agree although how they will do that I don't know without reducing all the ranges. They fake the effect in CCP promotion videos which makes a big difference to the visuals of course.
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:31:00 -
[3]
a very easy and short way to change this would be to simply make all ships and models twice as big (or so). This wouldnt change any balance but a battle cruiser would then be about 700m long. The other way would be to decrease all ranges and velocities, which would also not change the balancing, but when you are out of warp, you would need twice as long to reach your target what is not that good. Sure they also could reduce the distances of all objects to each other which would end in the same balance as now, just that instead of your weapon range of 12km, there would stand 6 km. Also instead of your max velocity of 300m/s there would stand 150m/s and so on (if they would scale them down by 50%).
I really would like to see something like that.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:35:00 -
[4]
Under no circumstances they should reduce combat distances. The more distance, the more difference there is in weapons, ships and combat tactics. Besides, to be somewhat credible, the distances should be even bigger that they are now, in space there is no friction, nothing taht could stop projectiles move or reduce laser range.
What would help though, is to increase the size of bigger ships. It would greatly improve the immersion in game, a carrier is not much bigger than a battleship, which really sucks. Make them at least twice that big, supercapitals accordingly, so you see something more from them than dots at distances. This could even be a solution to huge blobs, as there wont be place to gather 200+ ships in one area. You can also do some stuff with the camera, for example slow it down when zoomed out (think of it as the camera drone has to fly longer distances when you spin the camera)- this would provide a feeling for a great range between ships.
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:41:00 -
[5]
Quote: Under no circumstances they should reduce combat distances. The more distance, the more difference there is in weapons, ships and combat tactics.
You havent understand. If the would reduce ALL distances and ranges, nothing would change for you except that you see the ships bigger in game. Because if your weapon now shoots 10km, it would then maybe shoot only 5km, but because this is for all weapons, its still the same for you (sure only if velocities would be reduced too).
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Adamantor
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:47:00 -
[6]
You can zoom the camera in. I didn't learn about this feature until months after starting.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:02:00 -
[7]
To be realistic, the ranges need to be _LONGER_, not shorter. This is space after all.
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Morgals
Dark Star Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Morgals on 30/11/2009 20:14:40 I agree with the problem, not the solution.
I want to see my target(not with look at) and myself exchanging blows. I want to visually ID that battle ship rahter than it being a big cross.
I don't think any game dynamics should be changed though..if you change ranges you also need to change speed...bleh.
I agree some ships should simply be larger. This would help a lot.
Also maybe the camera auto magnifies ships and thus they apear 4x larger than the actually are. Could turn this on and off via a toggle?
Not as intresting to watch a bunch of +'s echange beams of light(or plumes of smoke)
Edit:re projectiles in space I always saw it as after a cetain distance the projectiles didn't hit has offten or maybe of a borad side only 1 hit as guns being off by .1 of a degree's makes a huge difrence after a certain distance. Dark Star Industries
Actions speak louder than words. Let us show you=> DSI-Recruitment in game channel |
Lord Delacroix
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:15:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lord Delacroix on 30/11/2009 20:16:20 I agree... ships should be bigger. As big as necessary so that we could actually see ships, instead of crosses at mid-zoom.
CCP trolled me into playing this game with all their fancy videos with ships visible... and you're like "son, im disappoint" when in your first battle you see only your ship and a bunch of crosses.
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trenny jr
Caldari United Forces Academy Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:21:00 -
[10]
hell no why mess with a good set of combat systems for the purpose of aesthetics i mean that would be like adding bloom to a shoo... oh they did that its called halo
every time lana posts a carebear dies |
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Grek Forto
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:22:00 -
[11]
Ships should be bigger in relation to each other tbh. A carrier can carry a number of ships for transport, but when you actually have those ships next to the carrier it is impossible to imagine they being able to fit inside.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Morgals
Also maybe the camera auto magnifies ships and thus they apear 4x larger than the actually are. Could turn this on and off via a toggle?
Not as intresting to watch a bunch of +'s echange beams of light(or plumes of smoke)
This is an interesting idea. Say that all ships you have targeted get a window that pops up on your screen (where the target is at) with a real time magnification. That could look really cool. Add some of that fluff info that is shown in the trailers too.
Another idea:
As I understand it, those who just sit in a battleship blob don't do much else than target ships on a sorted overview, and then fire at them. What if you could activate some sort of "cinematic mode" where the client automatically choose cool views over the battle while you use the overview to do the actual fighting?
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Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lord Delacroix Edited by: Lord Delacroix on 30/11/2009 20:16:20 I agree... ships should be bigger. As big as necessary so that we could actually see ships, instead of crosses at mid-zoom.
CCP trolled me into playing this game with all their fancy videos with ships visible... and you're like "son, im disappoint" when in your first battle you see only your ship and a bunch of crosses.
It feels that the ship are a lot smaller than they actually are... Most modern warships are hardly over 100 meters and yet most of the frigs are larger than that. Heck the German Battleship Bismark was 250 meters and most EVE cruisers are bigger than that but yet don't look at all that big. I think the issue is that you can't zoom in far enough to person sized view from the window to get the scale of the ship.
Otherwise... You can always zoom in to the ships to see them upclose, but the other posters are right about space fights.
Its in space and therefore the fights should be miles apart just like the real wars at sea.
I mean most WWII battleship engagements were at 22km and modern engagements are about 100km and even further with cruise missiles.
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DNSBLACK
Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:29:00 -
[14]
Well I would like to see a ingame recorder for the fights that has random camera views. This could be run on the client side only. You could set your recorder for 4 different ships on the enemy side and you rfirends and hit record prior to the fight.
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trenny jr
Caldari United Forces Academy Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DNSBLACK Well I would like to see a ingame recorder for the fights that has random camera views. This could be run on the client side only. You could set your recorder for 4 different ships on the enemy side and you rfirends and hit record prior to the fight.
now that i support :)
every time lana posts a carebear dies |
Rumba Purring
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:45:00 -
[16]
I agree this is a 'gap' in EVE gaming experience, and here's my idea to address it. (I guess this thread may now be moved to 'Features' section.)
When you acquire target lock on enemy ships, in stead of getting a small static icon, have a little larger window pop up that show a live image of the targeted ship at appropriate zoom. So for example, if you have 4 ships targeted, you'd get 4 little windows, each showing live image of one of 4 ships acquired by targeting system cameras.
This would put extra burden on CPU/GPU, and yes, it would work best if you have a large monitor.
But it would be awesome. ------------- Would you be ready if the gravity reversed itself? |
dtyk
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: dtyk on 30/11/2009 20:53:37
Originally by: Rumba Purring Edited by: Rumba Purring on 30/11/2009 20:49:44 I agree this is a 'gap' in EVE gaming experience, and here's my idea to address it. (I guess this thread may now be moved to 'Features' section.)
When you acquire target lock on enemy ships, in stead of getting a small static icon, have a little larger window pop up that show a live image of the targeted ship at appropriate zoom. So for example, if you have 4 ships targeted, you'd get 4 little windows, each showing live image of one of 4 ships acquired by targeting system cameras.
This way, you can tell which direction yours target ships are flying with respect to your ship, what weapons they are firing, and even how they are configured if they are T3 ships, etc.
This would put extra burden on CPU/GPU, and yes, it would work best if you have a large monitor.
But it would be awesome.
1)You'd be ****ed up in fleet fights because of the lag. 2)You'd be ****ed up even in smaller fights if you had 12 people locked (primary, secondary, tertiary for killmail whoring, 6-7 targets for ECM, 2-3 to quickly get RR on vital allies)
Hold right mouse button down, your camera spins around itself instead of around your ship. Look from the enemy's direction to your ship and do that, your camera is now halfway between you and the enemy. Look and zoom as you wish.
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Lord Delacroix
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:56:00 -
[18]
or just let us scale the size of ships on client side? ie i want all ships to be 5x bigger, lemme do it.
and i think most people will agree that carriers need to be atleast 70-80% the size of a mothership.
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Alarik Frisch
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Alarik Frisch on 30/11/2009 21:01:07 Don't change anything, but CCP could get a similar and fun effect in this way:
In the target boxes, show the actual ship not just it's portrait. Show how it is moving and what direction it is facing (in relation to me) and what happens when it fires, etc. Essentially, for each ship you have targeted, show me a realtime zoomed-in image of what it is doing. This would have the added benefit of allowing us to know if a ship is facing me or running away based simply on their target picture.
Also, allow a similar zoom-in image whenever I hover my mouse over another ship.
Just my two cents.
EDIT: ok, doh, I should have read the last three posts before posting. Sorry. They beat me to it.
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:13:00 -
[20]
I personally dont like the extra window idea because i still wouldnt see the space battles i want to see in a spacebattle game. Really, i want at least see space ship battles and not just some symbols or cameras But i like the idea of setting the sizes of the ships on the client side lets say 2 times as big. But i see little problem for titans and carriers, because they would be huge and collisions should be adjusted as well then.
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Shirei Fenikkusu
Knights of the Eternal Flame
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Daedalus II
Originally by: Morgals
Also maybe the camera auto magnifies ships and thus they apear 4x larger than the actually are. Could turn this on and off via a toggle?
Not as intresting to watch a bunch of +'s echange beams of light(or plumes of smoke)
This is an interesting idea. Say that all ships you have targeted get a window that pops up on your screen (where the target is at) with a real time magnification. That could look really cool. Add some of that fluff info that is shown in the trailers too.
That is actually very possible for them to do, since they added the fitting screen with the 3D view of your ship. Do the same thing, but center the box/window on the current mouseover target, then change it's orientation, background, and engine effects to match the target relative to you.
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Aya Sin
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:35:00 -
[22]
Simple, cap the camera distance at a couple of kilometers and add some 15x leadership skill to increase the cap for fleet commanders. :)
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:49:00 -
[23]
I wonder why some people are against this idea of reduced distances... everyone of you watched the new trailer and from what i read inside the threads about it, you all want such battles in game and complained about that Eve does not look like that. And now when there would be a step into that direction you say "no, i want my red crosses on the horizen more than changing a number from 40km to 20km", even if its only a number inside the PC. This extra video or camera idea would not make battles anything like that for me.
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The Crushah
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:58:00 -
[24]
I want the ships to have a porthole with your avatars face appearing in it showing differing emotions depending on how the fight is going, finishing in a look of anguish when your ship explodes.
That would be awesome.
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Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:10:00 -
[25]
I don't want another game that use the cheap excuse of showing oversized units so you can see them. I don't mind seeing boxes and crosses, if i want to see ships i can zoom on them. What does detract from my experience is having lots of windows on my screen i can never set without some overlapping or hiding part of the action on screen (but due to how the game works, can't close them or i lose vital informations or functionalities)...
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:14:00 -
[26]
To get the feature that Captain Futur3 wants, simply hold down Ctrl and both mouse buttons (can Windows handle two mouse buttons?) while sliding the mouse left or right. This alters the field of view.
To get your target at 40km in frame narrow the field of view down and you'll be able to watch the two ships slugging it out.
I do wish we had a way of quickly switching to "cinematic views" though, and a way to have the "look at" function modified so that it would always keep your ship and the target ship in frame. At present you can hover your mouse over the target icon and the camera will track that target, but it does so from the current viewpoint meaning your ship will go in and out of frame as you move around.
Hrm... turns out you can do exactly that: Camera Work [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Foraven I don't want another game that use the cheap excuse of showing oversized units so you can see them. I don't mind seeing boxes and crosses, if i want to see ships i can zoom on them. What does detract from my experience is having lots of windows on my screen i can never set without some overlapping or hiding part of the action on screen (but due to how the game works, can't close them or i lose vital informations or functionalities)...
that is one-way thinking, sorry. 1. you dont mind seeing boxes, but you do mind to see a reduced number under your target, or a increased number somewhere in the unit description for the size of your virtual ship? Its just a number! There could stand a word like "far away" "next to you" or "unreachable". 2. what exactly is oversized in a science fiction game which plays far into a fictional future? Maybe someone should tell you that traveling in space like it is possible in Eve is physically not possible. Shall we all travel now for weeks/hours to fly inside a star system from one planet to another? 3. I bet that if CCP would have taken half the ranges for everything with their first release, and someone would ask to increase the ranges to the actual level we have in game, you would say that it would suck for some different reason. 4. when I go a step further into your direction, we would have browser games with just an overview map, but at least there would stand the exact numbers for everything, calculated by a physics professor.
Really, this is a game and most of the fun comes from what you see on your monitor. At least for me and a lot of other people, else all these trailers would be useless and pointless...
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Sandman Contra
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:30:00 -
[28]
Hold down the right mouse button and point the camera at what you want to look at. Then hold the left button without releasing the right and move the mouse up and down to zoom in and out.
You can make a ship at 70km as big as your whole screen. I do this all the time in combat to not get bored and to have something to look at.
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:36:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 30/11/2009 23:38:35
Originally by: Sandman Contra Hold down the right mouse button and point the camera at what you want to look at. Then hold the left button without releasing the right and move the mouse up and down to zoom in and out.
You can make a ship at 70km as big as your whole screen. I do this all the time in combat to not get bored and to have something to look at.
i know that and i sometimes do that too, but this is not a solution for the red cross instead of ships problem. Sure, i also could set my point of view on every ship i want to see in battle, but this still does not make battles more like in the trailer or every other scifi movie i watched my whole life. I never see space ship battles in movies where only dots are fighting, even if ships are huge like in battlestar or star wars. Thats my point.
Edit: to make it more clear: i want to see MANY big ships on my screen, fighting each other. When i zoom, i still see only one ship.
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Sandman Contra
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Captain Futur3
Originally by: Sandman Contra Hold down the right mouse button and point the camera at what you want to look at. Then hold the left button without releasing the right and move the mouse up and down to zoom in and out.
You can make a ship at 70km as big as your whole screen. I do this all the time in combat to not get bored and to have something to look at.
i know that and i sometimes do that too, but this is not a solution for the red cross instead of ships problem. Sure, i also could set my point of view on every ship i want to see in battle, but this still does not make battles more like in the trailer or every other scifi movie i watched my whole life. I never see space ship battles in movies where only dots are fighting, even if ships are huge like in battlestar or star wars. Thats my point.
I see your point. Thing is you're comparing something to hollywood that actually has some physics behind it. A lot of people liked the movie Top Gun, but any pilot will tell you that air-to-air combat takes place outside of visual range where you don't even see the other plane.
In the space movies you see huge ships get right next to each other but the fact is that that range and everything has been calculated in the game to make things somewhat balanced and to make sense. So yeah, it's nice on the eyes to see something like that, but mechanically I don't think it would work in-game due to the distance.
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