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Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
8
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Posted - 2012.06.17 10:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
Whilst I full understand the need to tweak the wardec system to prevent unwanted foreverwars, I did like the idea of the Goons being ongoing legitimate targets in hisec that you could fire on without risking concordokken.
Posts in this thread (and elsewhere) indicate that the Goons also seem to think that this would be good for them, giving them unlimited (legitimate) targets wherever.
I have also seen that moon goo brings in more iskies for them than I will ever see in 10 thousand lifetimes. This made me wonder if the following is possible:
- We form an overarching hisec alliance that anyone who wants to shoot goons can join
- Goons wardec that alliance using their huge amounts of isk
- Lots of explosions
This gives the happy balance of slightly more consensual pvp, lots of targets, and the chance for smaller corps to have a go at goons without the inevitable journey to null and instant explosion that would result.
Is this vaguely sensible, or have I missed something fundamental? I don't post often, but when I do, I do it with my main. |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 10:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Posting in yet another "Gewns R Bad" thread. Honestly, are we so bored in high sec that all we have to talk about is GSF?
I recently finished Cruise Missile V and did Cruise Missile Specialization to II, put on 6 Cruise Missile Launcher IIs and did a mission and it seems like I am doing a lot less DPS. This seemed odd to me. I guess I will have to tinker with the fitting.
In other news, this thread sucks. Cruises are pretty much terrible in general. Much like this thread. |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 10:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:The only thing that bugs me about the new wardec system is that it makes my eve mail icon blink more then before. But I did get a bit of a chuckle thinking these guys would be locked into a forever war.
Other than that, I still could not care less about wardecs. They have zero importance to people based in nullsec as we basically live in a state of forever war with any one that happens by.
It sure as hell isn't goons crying about the possibility of being shot on sight at any moment. I've had corpmates ask on more than one occasion how to change a setting so that they didn't have to get a notification every time a 1-man bandwagon corp jumps on one of our current wardecs. True story. |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
235
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Posted - 2012.06.17 10:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Virginia Virdana wrote:without the inevitable journey to null and instant explosion that would result. You might find 1-2 goons who actively enjoy playing dock/undock games with high sec pubbies.
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Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
318
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 12:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
"The sad fact is that there seem to be ever increasing numbers of self appointed internet idiots"
My dear fellow, you should know that self praise is no praise. You want fries with that? |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2330
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Posted - 2012.06.17 12:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:I love how highsec players are totally willing to make highsec worse if they think it'll finally make goons mad somehow
How on earth does having a genuinely dynamic system of wardec escalation (ie Inferno 1.0) make hisec "worse" ... that comment you made makes no actual sense.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 12:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
So I was talking with the other highsec war goons and we both agrees that we don't care about the changes either way. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2330
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Posted - 2012.06.17 12:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:So I was talking with the other highsec war goons and we both agrees that we don't care about the changes either way.
Yeah right, a couple of years ago the same thing happened to me. The inland revenue made an error and sent me -ú6000 in refunded overpaid tax. I was like "I don't care, doesn't mean anything to me, I can live with it or without it (goes and buys a new computer, collection of airsoft guns, 100 books off amazon etc etc.)
Unfortunately six months later they wrote to me again and said their mistake had been a mistake and they wanted the money back. I tried to explain how I didn't care about the money so much that I'd spent it all but the unkind lady at the tax offense said she'd send me to the tower of london unless I paid back every penny
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Ocular Shadows
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.06.17 13:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Doctor Benway Kado wrote:So I was talking with the other highsec war goons and we both agrees that we don't care about the changes either way. Yeah right, a couple of years ago the same thing happened to me. The inland revenue made an error and sent me -ú6000 in refunded overpaid tax. I was like "I don't care, doesn't mean anything to me, I can live with it or without it (goes and buys a new computer, collection of airsoft guns, 100 books off amazon etc etc.) Unfortunately six months later they wrote to me again and said their mistake had been a mistake and they wanted the money back. I tried to explain how I didn't care about the money so much that I'd spent it all but the unkind lady at the tax offense said she'd send me to the tower of london unless I paid back every penny
I've wondered for years, just what kind of crazy causes someone to post like this. Most analogies on the Internet are bad, but this one doesn't even make sense by any of the twisted logic standards. I just can't make the connection between your post and the fact I can go into hisec and shoot people without being blown up by the po-po.
Your posting reminds me of this one time I worked at a summer day camp helping underprivileged kids as part of the free lunch program. We played kickball all the time; the kids we're a lot of fun to mentor. Then I moved away and couldn't help any more. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 13:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think the funniest thing is that apparently Jade never heard that joke before. |
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1481
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 13:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zelda Wei wrote:To rush to judgement
how deliciously ironic
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
364
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 13:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:If you believed these boards, you'd think EVE lived and died around Goonswarm.
The funny part being that the Goons don't promote this idea at all.
This is a natural consequence of the Goonswarm need to dominate the forums. People are going to assume this. When you are an attention ***** then people figure you will ***** for a lot of other things too. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 13:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec. |
Grumpy Owly
Paladin Philanthropists
645
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec.
Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF.
Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then? Bounty Hunting, Soon Gäó
It's just criminal - Smuggling |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec. Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF. Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then? Need a war dec to shoot people in hisec bud. |
Grumpy Owly
Paladin Philanthropists
645
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec. Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF. Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then? Need a war dec to shoot people in hisec bud.
....... So they are relevant and do actually matter then?
(though technically you can still shoot people in HS without one of course) Bounty Hunting, Soon Gäó
It's just criminal - Smuggling |
Ocular Shadows
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec. Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF. Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then?
***** and giggles. We also now have the new Ministry of Love to spread joy to our before now ignored hisec flock. When you kick someone out of their nullsec space where do they go if only for a little while? Hisec, and if you want to shoot them there without being concorded you need a war dec. We have plenty of stories of newbees that started out in nullsec, and were confused when they shot at someone and were concorded when they finally went to hisec. |
Grumpy Owly
Paladin Philanthropists
646
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ocular Shadows wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:You know all you high sec people don't need a wardec to do anything to us? We live in space where wardecs do not matter, come try I promise you won't get concorded. Basically wardecs don't affect us so why would we care enough to change them? I'll head the idiocy off at the pass with the fact that we use neutral alts for our high sec dealings so you won't be causing any significant damage in high sec. Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF. Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then? ***** and giggles. We also now have the new Ministry of Love to spread joy to our before now ignored hisec flock. When you kick someone out of their nullsec space where do they go if only for a little while? Hisec, and if you want to shoot them there without being concorded you need a war dec. We have plenty of stories of newbees that started out in nullsec, and were confused when they shot at someone and were concorded when they finally went to hisec.
So no geniuine war effort or political reasoning then other than "policing" your leavers? Its purely for personal satisfaction at the expense of others? Bounty Hunting, Soon Gäó
It's just criminal - Smuggling |
Mr Management
Anger Management
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
You need to learn....... CCP = Goons |
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
231
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
We currently have 47 corps and alliances dogpiled behind The Honda Accord in empire wars. Despite this vast force of ''elite" highsec PvPers arrayed against us, my in-alliance scamming alt has been able to move freely around Empire space without any trouble. I have also left him AFK at gates and he has not been harmed. A simple insta-undock bookmark from Jita 4-4 and other trade hubs ensures that I can dock there without fear of molestation.
I remember a few months ago we were convoying about 20 maelstroms through highsec between deployment areas. Someone in a hurricane decided to run ahead of the main convoy and they ended up getting tackled by a couple of wartargets. the main fleet was two jumps behind and as soon as they spotted us the WTs disengaged the hurricane while he was still in structure and warped off, leaving their drones behind. It was so laughably pathetic.
Basically what I'm saying is that the only things wardecs do is turn empire into a far more relaxing and easier version of nullsec. Nullsec, without bombs, without cynos, without carriers or supercaps, without dictors or anchorable warp bubbles, and without any organised or competent enemies to fight us.
Basically I can't see any form of empire wardec that would have any kind of effect on a nullsec entity, because the basic restrictions of Empire create an environment that is still far less hostile than any nullsec region. |
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Freezehunter
126
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
Goons are to Eve what Palpatine was to Star Wars.
For that they have all my respect.
Whoever doesn't see that or tries to diminish their importance and brilliance at a gameplay and community level is a sore loser.
Hell, I've been called a "Goon spai" by my own friends for supporting Goons in pretty much everything they do, but I don't care, I just like to give credit where credit is due, and what The Mittani is doing is ******* brilliant, starting with OTEC and ending with Hulkageddon Infinite and beyond. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Ocular Shadows
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ocular Shadows wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF.
Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then?
***** and giggles. We also now have the new Ministry of Love to spread joy to our before now ignored hisec flock. When you kick someone out of their nullsec space where do they go if only for a little while? Hisec, and if you want to shoot them there without being concorded you need a war dec. We have plenty of stories of newbees that started out in nullsec, and were confused when they shot at someone and were concorded when they finally went to hisec. So no geniuine war effort or political reasoning then other than policing your leavers? Its purely for personal satisfaction at the expense of others?
Grumpy Owly wrote:
....... So they are relevant and do actually matter then?
(though technically you can still shoot people in HS without one of course)
This isn't hard to understand, stop being obtuse. Kick can also be removing a rival alliance/coalition from their space, not just those removed from our own alliance/coalition.
Now when you use a tool for a specific purpose--especially a simple tool--does that mean you care deeply about it? When you use a fork/spoon do you care what material it is made of or how it was made? Do you care if someone else wanted a spork instead? Perhaps, instead you will not give it a second thought because it is a simple tool to perform a task. War decs are Eve's simple tool for blowing people up in hisec without the normal penalties associated with doing so.
It doesn't take a lot of research or time to realize we do plenty of blowing people up with war decs. Burn Jita or Hulkageddon ring a bell? Regardless, since most of our activites are in null sec war dec changes don't really affect us. Since they aren't a huge part of our day to day, we have no changes to champion with war decs. They are a tool that we will use when convenient for us to blow up people. |
Grumpy Owly
Paladin Philanthropists
646
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ocular Shadows wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Ocular Shadows wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Might want to check the war lists, specifically at the wars initiated by GSF.
Point is if the WD's are not relevant to you in HS, why have them then?
***** and giggles. We also now have the new Ministry of Love to spread joy to our before now ignored hisec flock. When you kick someone out of their nullsec space where do they go if only for a little while? Hisec, and if you want to shoot them there without being concorded you need a war dec. We have plenty of stories of newbees that started out in nullsec, and were confused when they shot at someone and were concorded when they finally went to hisec. So no geniuine war effort or political reasoning then other than policing your leavers? Its purely for personal satisfaction at the expense of others? Grumpy Owly wrote:
....... So they are relevant and do actually matter then?
(though technically you can still shoot people in HS without one of course)
This isn't hard to understand, stop being obtuse. Kick can also be removing a rival alliance/coalition from their space, not just those removed from our own alliance/coalition. Now when you use a tool for a specific purpose--especially a simple tool--does that mean you care deeply about it? When you use a fork/spoon do you care what material it is made of or how it was made? Do you care if someone else wanted a spork instead? Perhaps, instead you will not give it a second thought because it is a simple tool to perform a task. War decs are Eve's simple tool for blowing people up in hisec without the normal penalties associated with doing so. It doesn't take a lot of research or time to realize we do plenty of blowing people up with war decs. Burn Jita or Hulkageddon ring a bell? Regardless, since most of our activites are in null sec war dec changes don't really affect us. Since they aren't a huge part of our day to day, we have no changes to champion with war decs. They are a tool that we will use when convenient for us to blow up people.
Yes, I understand the mechanical advantages and benefits of applying the use of war dec mechanics in High Sec, and the relevance of it to that space, I was trying to qualify the motivations behind why you use them is all. Bounty Hunting, Soon Gäó
It's just criminal - Smuggling |
Constable Chang
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:If you believed these boards, you'd think EVE lived and died around Goonswarm.
The funny part being that the Goons don't promote this idea at all. This is a natural consequence of the Goonswarm need to dominate the forums. People are going to assume this. When you are an attention ***** then people figure you will ***** for a lot of other things too.
^This^ (except the reason for what Goons do on the forums isn't because they are attention *****'s.)
For purposes of 'full disclosure' I will admit to being a member of the Something Awful forums. I am not now and never have been a 'Goon' and, having played EVE before my joining the SA forums I'm unlikely ever (be allowed to) join the Goons.
I guess that a lot of EVE players don't understand where the Goons come from, literally rather than figuratively.
The Goons are a different kind of group of players. For Most groups of EVE players their only bond, their only connection to one another, is through this game. Goons are not just connected to one another through their interactions in this game. And the EVE forums are just another level of game play, hence what might appear to be domination of the forums.
The Goons understand the power of the forums because 'forums' is where they come from. For those that don't know, thats the 'Something Awful' forums (or SA). Thats why they sometimes refer to other EVE players as 'pubbies'; ie 'members of the public', not members of the SA forums.
This is why The Goons hold so much power in EVE; because they are held together by more than just this game. For example, I imagine that if CCP messed things up badly enough for them they could actually coordinate a mass unsubscription. I think that anyone working at CCP who caused several thousand players to suddenly, en-masse, unsubscribe would be looking for a new job fairly soon.
Then there are the coordinated actions in game. Its a huge power they wield in an MMO. It has to be respected and understood for what it is. And it really shows up the lack of coordination by other player groups; players who are only held together by this game, for whom the only reason they associate with one another is participation in an MMO.
Coordination is power.
In brief, 'The Goons' exist at a 'meta level' outside the MMO. They are like some kind of higher-order entity and as such they have an 'evolutionary' advantage.
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Goons are to Eve what Palpatine was to Star Wars.
Close, but a more accurate comparison would be that Goons are to Eve what coffee is to Sambuca. Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 20:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Constable Chang wrote: In brief, 'The Goons' exist at a 'meta level' outside the MMO. They are like some kind of higher-order entity and as such they have an 'evolutionary' advantage.
So much so that we are the reason CCP never finished up with the Jove stuff. We are just so powerful and mysterious that they didn't have to bother making npcs to fill that role.
Next CSM, we are pushing for a goon faction ship. It will jam like a blackbird and use rifters like drones. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 20:43:00 -
[57] - Quote
We are clearly not all-powerful because we would scrub clean these forums of moronically bad analogies and terrible shitposts. But here we are in this thread. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 21:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:We are clearly not all-powerful because we would scrub clean these forums of moronically bad analogies and terrible shitposts. But here we are in this thread. Hey, we're working on it! Death Squads don't just come into existence overnight, you know. |
Freezehunter
126
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 21:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:We are clearly not all-powerful because we would scrub clean these forums of moronically bad analogies and terrible shitposts. But here we are in this thread. Hey, we're working on it! Death Squads don't just come into existence overnight, you know.
Speaking of Death Squads, this thread needs to be gassed. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Farmer Daughter
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 21:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
I'm gay. |
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