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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:22:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Ralnik on 07/12/2009 12:26:34
Originally by: Merdaneth
Would you think CCP would fix the one-click-alliance-disband button, if there wouldn't have been any scandals and uproar involving it?
Did CCP fix that? They did not fix it when it happened to BOB, they did not fix it when it happened to CVA. The only difference with CVA was CCP stood up and righted the wrong. On the flip side BOB lost their alliance yet it was not fixed even a year later as it did happen to CVA.
What you guys are doing IMO is pretty much the same to FW as one man disbanding 0.0 alliance. You are ****ing in the work of what hundreds of players have done since FW started.
As part of a RP corp you are even more guilty and at least 1PG made a stand and decided not to partake in this nonsense. It's sad to see your corp with the history it's had take part in something so selfish and childish.
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Shockhead
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:31:00 -
[152]
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:45:00 -
[153]
Gangleri, the stand by you and 1PG is highly admirable.
Use/abuse of broken mechanics shouldn't be the determining factor in the factional warfare theatres. It is unfortunate that CCP has chosen to downplay or ignore the problems for so long, and while I have no expectation that they will act soon I am more than glad to add what support I can to the effort to get the developers to give factional warfare a higher priority in their backlog.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:52:00 -
[154]
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Gahrian Ketar
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:54:00 -
[155]
/signed
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Karagh
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:55:00 -
[156]
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MacaMan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.07 14:34:00 -
[157]
signed
/sarcasm_start Fatsacks in ccp do not care for this "clever use of game mechanic" because "everything is fine on serverside" which shows that "logs indicate nothing out of order" and maybee we all should check "clients side" and yak-yak-yak.... copy/paste /sarcasm_end past is the best teacher as long as one is willing to learn... but some will never learn
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:00:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:07:20 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:00:55
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yes it is very disappointing to see PIE making RP propaganda mileage out these system captures achieved purely through the Caldari plexing technique. I admit I expected more from them on an OOC level.
Oh come on now Jade.
On an RP level, what are we meant to do when a system becomes vulnerable?
Ignore it?
We would be failing in our in character duty if we did so, and you would be the first to make capital out of it.
OOC most of us think that the current mechanic sucks. But then we also think that the mechanic that allows the Minmatars to take a single Vigil into an Amarrian plex and capture it without sustaining a single point of damage sucks. And we think that the mechanic that causes the timer to keep running even when nobody is there sucks too.
I mean, what's the point of changing things so that someone will get shot at by NPCs in the future if they still don't have to be there to be shot at?
Remember - in character statements and actions do not neccessarily reflect out of character views and opinions.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:08:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Oh come on now Jade. On an RP level, what are we meant to do when a system becomes vulnerable? [/quote
Follow the example of 1PG and CVA in this very thread?
Quote: We would be failing in our in character duty if we did so, and you would be the first to make capital out of it.
No I wouldn't and if you think I would then it shows how little you really understand the motivations of your fellow eve players at the end of the day.
Quote: OOC most of us think that the current mechanic sucks.
Its a pathetic cheesy exploit that has already ruined the integrity of faction warfare and will destroy the Amarrian/Minmatar front and the enjoyment of many many players. You had an opportunity to take a principled stance but decided instead to IC showboat your "success" on the back of the most tawdry gaming of broken mechanics imaginable.
Yes there are many problems with FW mechanics in general, but the system and integrity of the FW battle on your front did not collapse until you decided to cooperate with the Caldari exploiters and ruin the experience for all concerned.
Yes I am sure that if you hadn't done it other people would have collaborated with these "spoilers" but the fact remains you were faced with an ethical choice and you choose wrongly.
True Knowledge |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:20:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yes there are many problems with FW mechanics in general, but the system and integrity of the FW battle on your front did not collapse until you decided to cooperate with the Caldari exploiters and ruin the experience for all concerned.
And my point is that who's to say that exactly the same thing wouldn't have happened had FW not had this standings issues? Because it would still have been possible to not even be in the plex and have the timer continue to run.
And the latter has been a known bug for a very long time.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:26:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Rodj Blake And my point is that who's to say that exactly the same thing wouldn't have happened had FW not had this standings issues? Because it would still have been possible to not even be in the plex and have the timer continue to run. And the latter has been a known bug for a very long time.
As far as I am aware that bug has been classified as an exploit by GM's and you can "counter it" by petitioning those using it.
And both sides can have a gentleman's agreement not to cheat. Similar to the agreement I think you had until a week ago.
True Knowledge |
Cadirro
DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:30:00 -
[162]
Supported.
Though it might already be too late to undo the damage done.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:36:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:39:39
Originally by: Jade Constantine
And both sides can have a gentleman's agreement not to cheat. Similar to the agreement I think you had until a week ago.
I always thought that gentlemen's agreements were a bit "sandboxy" for you? What was it you once said? Oh yes:
Quote: I want to give these sandboxista controlled militias a "near life experience" I want to burn them with lye; I want to destroy something beautiful and execute every panda that wouldn't screw to save its species.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:48:00 -
[164]
And here was me thinking that the Jade/Rodj love spat was all IC.
Seriously, chill fellas. We're all on the same side on this one.
Simplest solution: Make destroying all navy in the plex a prerequisite for plex capture. Goodbye speed tanking, goodbye standings loopholes.
Intermediary solution: CCP declares the standings loophole an exploit. Same as abusing the timer bug already is. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity --------------------------------------- |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:53:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Kade Jeekin And here was me thinking that the Jade/Rodj love spat was all IC.
Seriously, chill fellas. We're all on the same side on this one.
Simplest solution: Make destroying all navy in the plex a prerequisite for plex capture. Goodbye speed tanking, goodbye standings loopholes.
Intermediary solution: CCP declares the standings loophole an exploit. Same as abusing the timer bug already is.
PERFECT!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:55:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Kade Jeekin
Simplest solution: Make destroying all navy in the plex a prerequisite for plex capture. Goodbye speed tanking, goodbye standings loopholes.
That would certainly be a good solution.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:55:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Ralnik on 07/12/2009 15:58:11
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:07:20 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:00:55
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yes it is very disappointing to see PIE making RP propaganda mileage out these system captures achieved purely through the Caldari plexing technique. I admit I expected more from them on an OOC level.
Oh come on now Jade.
On an RP level, what are we meant to do when a system becomes vulnerable?
Ignore it?
We would be failing in our in character duty if we did so, and you would be the first to make capital out of it.
OOC most of us think that the current mechanic sucks. But then we also think that the mechanic that allows the Minmatars to take a single Vigil into an Amarrian plex and capture it without sustaining a single point of damage sucks. And we think that the mechanic that causes the timer to keep running even when nobody is there sucks too.
I mean, what's the point of changing things so that someone will get shot at by NPCs in the future if they still don't have to be there to be shot at?
Remember - in character statements and actions do not neccessarily reflect out of character views and opinions.
I think 1PG have set a pretty good example as to what a corp such as yours should be doing in this situation.
Maybe you should look back to a few weeks ago when your fellow CVA friends fell victim to a game exploit which caused their entire alliance to collapse, undoing the work that had gone into it from many years.
While I will admit, I did get a good laugh at it as did most of us, but even within the Minmatar Militia we thought the way it was done was wrong and I'm pretty sure it was a general belief that we supported righting the wrong by CCP.
Many people despite their disagreements or even hate for CVA came out and supported them because what was done was wrong. More so the ability to do what was done happened due to faulty game mechanics.
This is much the same case. You are supporting the undermining of countless people's work just to gain a little bit of satisfaction with a forum post in IGS. Is your honor and your corp's reputation really only worth a few chest thumping posts in the IGS forums?
When CVA was disbanded many people put aside their RP to show support which likely helped push CCP in the direction of righting the wrong and not just letting them fall to the same fate as BOB did.
Your corp could also put your RP to the side and stop supporting thee ill gotten fake gains. What you are doing is wrong, and what you are doing will forever stain your corp reputation.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:02:00 -
[168]
There's a slight difference between this and the CVA disolution, in that the former is a result of flawed mechanics that have been known about for some time and some of our opponents have apparently themselves used in the past, whilst the later was the result of out of game hacking activities.
If it's any consolation, look at where the recently fallen systems are on the map.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:06:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Rodj Blake There's a slight difference between this and the CVA disolution, in that the former is a result of flawed mechanics that have been known about for some time and some of our opponents have apparently themselves used in the past, whilst the later was the result of out of game hacking activities.
If it's any consolation, look at where the recently fallen systems are on the map.
There is no difference. There is only a question of right or wrong. You know what you are doing is wrong, regardless of what you wish to call it.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:14:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:07:20 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 15:00:55
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yes it is very disappointing to see PIE making RP propaganda mileage out these system captures achieved purely through the Caldari plexing technique. I admit I expected more from them on an OOC level.
Oh come on now Jade.
On an RP level, what are we meant to do when a system becomes vulnerable?
Ignore it?
Yes, 1PG were dignified enough to do exactly that.
Originally by: Rodj Blake We would be failing in our in character duty if we did so, and you would be the first to make capital out of it.
OOC most of us think that the current mechanic sucks. But then we also think that the mechanic that allows the Minmatars to take a single Vigil into an Amarrian plex and capture it without sustaining a single point of damage sucks. And we think that the mechanic that causes the timer to keep running even when nobody is there sucks too.
I mean, what's the point of changing things so that someone will get shot at by NPCs in the future if they still don't have to be there to be shot at?
Remember - in character statements and actions do not neccessarily reflect out of character views and opinions.
Sorry but you seem to be implying that your RPing actually controls your actions, you make it sound like some debilitating disease FFS.
"well we could have chosen not to shoot those bunkers, but as you know, we suffer from "role playing syndrome" and as such are completely unable to control any actions of our in game character"
You sound about as credible as a NPC Republic Fleet officer explaining why he was unable to shoot at a Caldari plexer. Shpooting the bunkers was one thing, I could almost understand a couple of them getting shot from excitement/misundersatnding, but you shot ALL of them and them you all crowed about it (IC ofc) on the IGS.
How convenient to have the plausible denial of OOC statements saying you don't support this tactic but still get to indulge yourself in "yay we won lulz" comment on IGS. If RPing really does control you to this extent, I suggest you visit a head doctor or perhaps an exorcist (in game of course) --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:23:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 16:25:21
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Sorry but you seem to be implying that your RPing actually controls your actions, you make it sound like some debilitating disease FFS.
"well we could have chosen not to shoot those bunkers, but as you know, we suffer from "role playing syndrome" and as such are completely unable to control any actions of our in game character"
You sound about as credible as a NPC Republic Fleet officer explaining why he was unable to shoot at a Caldari plexer. Shpooting the bunkers was one thing, I could almost understand a couple of them getting shot from excitement/misundersatnding, but you shot ALL of them and them you all crowed about it (IC ofcRolling Eyes) on the IGS.
How convenient to have the plausible denial of OOC statements saying you don't support this tactic but still get to indulge yourself in "yay we won lulz" comment on IGS. If RPing really does control you to this extent, I suggest you visit a head doctor or perhaps an exorcist (in game of course)
That's sort of what RPing is - having your character do the things that your character would do. And yes, my character does have different views on things to the real-life me. You may be surprised to hear that I don't support slavery in RL.
But really, I fail to see what PIE's in-game response to the issue has to do with the actual problem(s) that this topic is about.
You'll notice that I actually agree that the current mechanic is a problem that needs to be addressed.
You'll even notice a thumbs up from me in this thread.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:31:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Ralnik on 07/12/2009 16:34:58
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 16:25:21
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Sorry but you seem to be implying that your RPing actually controls your actions, you make it sound like some debilitating disease FFS.
"well we could have chosen not to shoot those bunkers, but as you know, we suffer from "role playing syndrome" and as such are completely unable to control any actions of our in game character"
You sound about as credible as a NPC Republic Fleet officer explaining why he was unable to shoot at a Caldari plexer. Shpooting the bunkers was one thing, I could almost understand a couple of them getting shot from excitement/misundersatnding, but you shot ALL of them and them you all crowed about it (IC ofcRolling Eyes) on the IGS.
How convenient to have the plausible denial of OOC statements saying you don't support this tactic but still get to indulge yourself in "yay we won lulz" comment on IGS. If RPing really does control you to this extent, I suggest you visit a head doctor or perhaps an exorcist (in game of course)
That's sort of what RPing is - having your character do the things that your character would do. And yes, my character does have different views on things to the real-life me. You may be surprised to hear that I don't support slavery in RL.
But really, I fail to see what PIE's in-game response to the issue has to do with the actual problem(s) that this topic is about.
You'll notice that I actually agree that the current mechanic is a problem that needs to be addressed.
You'll even notice a thumbs up from me in this thread.
Then that sir makes you a hypocrite. You are saying you will gladly take the benefits of using this game breaking exploit, but will publicly claim it should be changed, so no one else can take advantage of it.
In others words, it's cool for you guys to use, but CCP should defiantly fix this, so it can't be used against you. Meanwhile you know they likely won't fix it before you guys are done using it. This all works out very well for you.
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Wayward Daughter
Swords of the Righteous
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Posted - 2009.12.07 17:01:00 -
[173]
Supported.
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Kaldor Mintat
Nomads Of Eve
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Posted - 2009.12.07 17:37:00 -
[174]
Supported. Although not really any hope this will be fixed as these problems have been known a long time. My bet is on FW being mostly LP farming ground in a few months time anyway. The whole system is rotten to the core.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 17:41:00 -
[175]
People, please. I know frustration and anger levels are high, but this is not a 'who is to blame thread' neither a 'lets condemn some people' thread, let us not turn it into one.
There are issues with FW mechanics, all people agree that they need to be solved, and be solved soon rather than late. That we don't agree on is what to do in the interim. But that is not the issue under debate here. Also, I believe the issue of what to do in the interim is interlinked with many other FW issues.
Please start another thread or get people together in-game to discuss a solution for the meantime, but placing blame in this thread certainly isn't going to solve the problem.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.07 18:07:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 07/12/2009 16:25:21
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Sorry but you seem to be implying that your RPing actually controls your actions, you make it sound like some debilitating disease FFS.
"well we could have chosen not to shoot those bunkers, but as you know, we suffer from "role playing syndrome" and as such are completely unable to control any actions of our in game character"
You sound about as credible as a NPC Republic Fleet officer explaining why he was unable to shoot at a Caldari plexer. Shpooting the bunkers was one thing, I could almost understand a couple of them getting shot from excitement/misundersatnding, but you shot ALL of them and them you all crowed about it (IC ofcRolling Eyes) on the IGS.
How convenient to have the plausible denial of OOC statements saying you don't support this tactic but still get to indulge yourself in "yay we won lulz" comment on IGS. If RPing really does control you to this extent, I suggest you visit a head doctor or perhaps an exorcist (in game of course)
That's sort of what RPing is - having your character do the things that your character would do. And yes, my character does have different views on things to the real-life me. You may be surprised to hear that I don't support slavery in RL.
But really, I fail to see what PIE's in-game response to the issue has to do with the actual problem(s) that this topic is about.
You'll notice that I actually agree that the current mechanic is a problem that needs to be addressed.
You'll even notice a thumbs up from me in this thread.
oh gimme a break...
"I really don't want the caldari to ruin the Amarr/Minnie battlefront, but OMG there's nothing I can do to stop my character capitalizing on caldari abuse of broken mechanics and then crowing about it on IGS ... he's out of control !!11!"
Isn't it time you realized that even from an RP perspective, this situation is massively broken and you should take a step back from it ?
--------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.07 18:22:00 -
[177]
The blame game also achieves very little - it's like arguing over the result of a rigged match... duh, it was rigged! The outcome is irrelevant, because you can never know what would have actually happened in 'fair/balanced' circumstances. It renders the actual effort of those not using inappropriate tactics/bugs/exploits/call-it-what-you-will also irrelevant because you're no longer comparing apples and apples. Arguably the current 'victories', for any side, are null & void.
Nobody seems to be arguing that the current situation is correct - therefore the situation needs addressing. The only reasonable way to do that is to fix the problems & start again. Compare it to the moon-goo exploit - CCP didn't say 'well, we've discovered the problem now and fixed it, but the ill gotten gains are ok' - they removed the ill gotten gains (they pretty much couldn't fix the economic impacts, but lets not wander off-topic..). CCP can find reason to fix the problems and reset occupancy, along with preferably giving occupancy meaning and all the other requests for FW's improvements. That's what we should be asking for, not getting distracted by blaming each other. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.07 19:15:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/12/2009 19:15:49 Sorry but trying to claim you are still against this is like seeing the opposition football team all held at gun point but then still deciding to shoot at goal, while saying you disapprove - you can't have both.
If you want ppl to actually believe that you are actually opposed to this mechanic then you should STOP ENGAGING IN IT.
It's pretty damned clear cut --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Neu Bastian
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.12.07 20:04:00 -
[179]
extra bunker HP can't hurt, either
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.07 20:26:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 07/12/2009 20:26:18
Originally by: Neu Bastian extra bunker HP can't hurt, either
I replied in the other thread, which is about FW as a whole.
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