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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:59:00 -
[1]
Recently this character had a very bad experience with a goon scammer and the CCP GM that handled it. I was the victim of a scam, and in the end was treated as the scammer.
I had owned a jump freighter that was in goon space (due to the station changing ownership). A goon scammer had convinced me to join goon fleet, knowing i had some cap ships. Once a member of the corp i felt safe and left with the goonie to make a few jumps back to low sec. he of course ambushed me with a large armada and my capital ship was destroyed.
I was very upset so sent several messages to the goon, with of course no results, and tried other tactics (like forums). Eventually i was contacted by an alt claiming he was sorry and it shouldn't have been done continuing on to offer me ISK and everything. I was skeptical at first but when i accepted the ISK I was very happy and figured all was resolved.
Very quickly my account was banned and i was contacted by CCP indicating i broke EULA and would be permanent banned. My first attempt to find out why was replied with "you know what you did", until further attempts revealed the ISK i received was dirty (supposedly the goon that sent it had scammed people out of their credit card numbers and other things to obtain it). The CCP GM assumed i was just an alt of the character who did the wrong doing so i was banned as well.
After a great deal of back and forth petitioning the GM was convinced i was no longer an alt (probably because my character had no past wrong doings and no previous interaction with the scamming character's account). Despite this the ISK was still dirty. As such all my cap ships were taken from me and all my ISK was taken from all my alts, and the character that received the ISK was fined so that his balance wound up to be -600 million.
This effectively makes my character unplayable. When you have a negative balance you cant sell any items (not even for an instant transfer), you cant open contracts, you cant run missions, you cant even buy ammo to hunt rats. Effectively you can no longer play the game without magically getting the money handed to you. In many ways it isnt much different than a ban.
i suspect this (or something similar) was the intent of the goon all along. My corp was an enemy of the goonies for some time (BoB, which no longer exists) and as such i suspect the stolen money was transferred to this account specifically to get it banned. So me, as a victim of a rather brutal scam became to be treated and punished as if I was the scammer, lost everything, and can not play the game to this day. All this despite CCP removing the ban and effectively admitting i was not the person doing the scamming. Seems awfully unfair to me!
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Asurymen
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:03:00 -
[2]
In before the cool story bro. I have to admit, this is a real bummer of a situation. I;m used to goons being underhand backstabbing gits, but this is a new low. And you'd think CCP would have a record of who's alt is who.
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Asurymen In before the cool story bro. I have to admit, this is a real bummer of a situation. I;m used to goons being underhand backstabbing gits, but this is a new low. And you'd think CCP would have a record of who's alt is who.
I suspect they know alts on the same account but they dont know alts on different accounts (especially when their paid for with stolen credit cards or use different name on the account).
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Fiammetta Sequence
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:21:00 -
[4]
Sounds fishy to me.
I don't know how it works, but why would they make an account unplayable instead of just banning you, especially after you convinced them that you were not the actual player in question.
To me this sounds like a "woe is me, send me some isk so I can actually play" scam.
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NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:24:00 -
[5]
It didn't happen the way you're describing OP, why are you lying to us
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fiammetta Sequence Sounds fishy to me.
I don't know how it works, but why would they make an account unplayable instead of just banning you, especially after you convinced them that you were not the actual player in question.
To me this sounds like a "woe is me, send me some isk so I can actually play" scam.
I dont want any ISK, im not asking for it, and wouldnt accept it if i was given it. I dont want anyone else to suffer in place of me. As for why CCP would do that, its actually standard practice. There are many mentions ont he forums of people with a negative ISK balance. Generally what happens is if you receive dirty ISK, even if you are unaware of it, they will reverse the transaction (subtract the ammount from your account and delete whatever you may have bought). This is all pretty standard response from CCP no matter how unfair it may seem.
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Laleth on 05/12/2009 20:31:10
Originally by: NickSuccorso It didn't happen the way you're describing OP, why are you lying to us
Exactly, why would i lie to you, considering im not asking, nor want any ISK. There is no reason to other than to bring community awareness to this in the hopes it will change policy in the future.
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:33:00 -
[8]
Its rather difficult to connect one account to another if any minor effort is done to conceal the connection. ie different methods of payment, different e mail addresses and so on.
Sucks what happened but tbh what did you think would happen if you associated with goons? They are literally the lowest of the internet world- this story doesnt suprise me in the least. Its fairly obvious the isk was sent to get you banned. But ccp handled it in a way thats as "fair as possible" i would say.
You eventually got your account back. Minus the tainted isk of course. Your ships that were destroyed were destroyed in a legit (though underhanded) way.
You mention they took your cap ships away. Did you replace your destroyed ships with the isk that was transfered to you? ie the tainted isk? If yes then obviously they would have to be taken away.
If there was no connection between the tainted isk and your ships- then i would say they should have let you keep them. You may want to keep petitioning that one upwards through the ranks.
As for you being 600 mill in the hole- well if you want to work at it theres ways out of that. Missioning or ratting are booth decent incomes- though you are quite crippled without the ability to sell. Can you use an alt to sell things with? or is the negative balance on all three toons?
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Empire Dweller
You eventually got your account back. Minus the tainted isk of course. Your ships that were destroyed were destroyed in a legit (though underhanded) way.
You mention they took your cap ships away. Did you replace your destroyed ships with the isk that was transfered to you? ie the tainted isk? If yes then obviously they would have to be taken away.
...
As for you being 600 mill in the hole- well if you want to work at it theres ways out of that. Missioning or ratting are booth decent incomes- though you are quite crippled without the ability to sell. Can you use an alt to sell things with? or is the negative balance on all three toons?
I never petitioned to get the original destroyed ship back. It was within game rules and my own fault for trusting a goon. So far as i could tell the ISK removed from my account was the dirty ISK (which is to be expected as well). The ships that were removed offset the ISK, so this also is to be expected. My problem isnt so much that they took back the ISK, its with the negative balance. They shouldnt have taken money past the 0 balance in my account, or if they did the game rules should not limit you such that you cant do anything when in the negative.
As for the ways you suggested to make money. Missions dont work as some require escrow (those that dont wont pay all that much). but even if i wanted to drone away at missions for a year to make up for it i cant even buy the ammo i need or sell the items from the mission. Using an alt doesnt work either because you cant even open an contract to give the items to an alt to sell it anyway. Making money off mission reward solely is damn near impossible at these levels.
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Bitty Bit
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Laleth
Originally by: Empire Dweller
As for the ways you suggested to make money. Missions dont work as some require escrow (those that dont wont pay all that much). but even if i wanted to drone away at missions for a year to make up for it i cant even buy the ammo i need or sell the items from the mission. Using an alt doesnt work either because you cant even open an contract to give the items to an alt to sell it anyway. Making money off mission reward solely is damn near impossible at these levels.
In station trade with friends and/or alts...maybe ccp wants u to become a scammer..the quickest way to make isk apperently
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Angst
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bitty Bit In station trade with friends and/or alts...maybe ccp wants u to become a scammer..the quickest way to make isk apperently
It certainly seems that way, very sad really. Id be tempted to, just as it seems to make things fair (an eye for an eye and everything). But its just not me. ------------------------------------- |
Bitty Bit
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:11:00 -
[12]
Tip:- Navy issue dominix's are all the rage nowadays
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bitty Bit In station trade with friends and/or alts...maybe ccp wants u to become a scammer..the quickest way to make isk apperently
Yup! i agree. By the way the dominix may sell well and all but i cant sell things!
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:49:00 -
[14]
*Points and *
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Triple Entendre
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Triple Entendre on 05/12/2009 22:12:30 Edited by: Triple Entendre on 05/12/2009 22:09:44 Can I have your s- ...Waitasec.
Not changing anything edit: That was low, I realize. But it still stands.
As for making money? Best I can think of is fleeting up with people running missions for a while, salvaging, and generic ransomy piratical goodness.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:14:00 -
[16]
CCP got his stuff.
But I small shenanigans...
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan CCP got his stuff.
But I small shenanigans...
How so? and whats my motivation? I made it clear i wont accept ISK for this from players.
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Minmatar Citizen 125632
Minmatar Exiles of Bloodfin
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:17:00 -
[18]
cool story bro
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Azura Noctis
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:17:00 -
[19]
They really need to set up a call service because the back and forth petitioning system takes way too long to sort out anything.
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Anewb N'eve
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:20:00 -
[20]
So you payed real money to join the Goons forums? Thats the only way to join any actual goon corp last I heard.
You trusted a goon?
You transfered dirty isk to your alts? All your characters are -isk?
...somethings weird.
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Laleth on 05/12/2009 22:24:25
Originally by: Azura Noctis They really need to set up a call service because the back and forth petitioning system takes way too long to sort out anything.
I agree, or at the very least they need to respond to petitions in real time (or at least quickly). You should be guaranteed within 1 hour a GM will contact you via convo at which point things will be resolved by the end of the convo.
Originally by: Anewb N'eve So you payed real money to join the Goons forums? Thats the only way to join any actual goon corp last I heard.
You trusted a goon?
You transfered dirty isk to your alts? All your characters are -isk?
...somethings weird.
No. Paying money to goons to join their forum or corp is another one of their scams. They have a forum that is free to join related to their parent organization, as well as the eve forum, not to mention in game mail and other ways to contact people. But no what happen was the goon's alt gave me dirty money, supposedly to pay me back for the scam, but in reality it was to get me in trouble it seems.
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Azura Noctis
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:35:00 -
[22]
On a related note, this is going to make me extremely paranoid about accepting ISK from anybody unless it's someone I know very well.
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Noah Locke
Sa'ida Nahjar
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Laleth
No. Paying money to goons to join their forum or corp is another one of their scams.
Wrong information, the money that people pay to join their forums "somethingawful.com" is not part of a scam, it is a fee that somewhat limits the ammount of idiots that join the site just to flame, troll and generally ruin it for everyone else, it is also to assist in paying the fees associated with running a site like that.
Paying goons isk to join their alliance however is a scam, but only fools with too much money get caught out with that anyway.
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Ava Starfire
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Azura Noctis On a related note, this is going to make me extremely paranoid about accepting ISK from anybody unless it's someone I know very well.
Yeah, this. Even "isk from friends leaving game" should be refused unless you know the person VERY well. Space is fun! |
Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ava Starfire
Originally by: Azura Noctis On a related note, this is going to make me extremely paranoid about accepting ISK from anybody unless it's someone I know very well.
Yeah, this. Even "isk from friends leaving game" should be refused unless you know the person VERY well.
People who follow game rules shouldnt be penalized for it, plain and simple. This is one policy i think the GM's need to look long and hard at.
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Amy Mouse
Intersteller Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:00:00 -
[26]
scam with an alt :D
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Laleth
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Amy Mouse scam with an alt :D
I wouldnt scam, not in real life and not online.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:43:00 -
[28]
so.... you're saying that you had pretty much nothing due to the scam.... you got isk from the dude, CCP took the isk from you, and now you have a negative balance....
There's some missing info there... are you claiming that CCP too MORE from you than the tainted isk? Did you start the process with a negative balance before you were given the isk? How did you end up with the negative balance if CCP only took the isk away which you had been given? You're getting some scepticism because at this point you're kinda claiming that 2 minus 2 equals negative 2. You could very well have more to the story that makes it valid... it's just there's obviously more to the story.
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Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Laleth
Originally by: Amy Mouse scam with an alt :D
I wouldnt scam, not in real life and not online.
This is why you are stuck in a -600mill hole with some Goonie laughing at your misery.
Discussing moderation: This story is why Alek is going to dec the GMs and wipe 'em the hell out. GMs like this suck.
Compare your account's login IP to that of dirty money account. Check chat logs. If no match, reverse dirty money only and play on ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
w1ldt4ngent
SWARTA
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: w1ldt4ngent on 06/12/2009 02:02:25 Doesn't sound like there's more to the story to me, sounds more like some overzealous GM ****ed up and took everything from this guy, plus the dirty money. I could of course be wrong.
EDIT: Thinking about it some more, I don't see how any GM could **** up that badly. Should have just taken the dirty ISK, not all of your legitimate ISK and certainly not all your ships. Either CCP has an incompetent GM (inb4 they're all useless), or there's something OP isn't telling us.
I'd also like to second the thought there should be a more direct means of engaging with GMs/"customer service". ___________________________ Swartans! Tonight we dine in Hek! |
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