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Kibbler
Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:01:00 -
[31]
Hahahah CCP.
Seriously? I mean... seriously?
At least make it take 2 doomsdays. :(
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omgdutch2005
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:59:00 -
[32]
i forsee a nerf of the titan DD's its prolly quickest way for ccp to "fix" the issue.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:00:00 -
[33]
One thing to take note is many of the entities that are doing the drive bys are more than capable to bring multiple titans. Now carriers and dreads playing docking games aren't going to warrant the work/risk to bring multiple deathrays down, but a 16bil hull with 5 bil mods on it? Yah Titan Pilots will be taking the time out of the busy schedules to instagib that.
The Pre Dominion 'Testing' changes of the HP Buff and Fighter Bombers is a good start, but in reality it will just come down to whether or not the other side can bring enough titans to instapop their target. Titans will become like everything else, as they already did before dominion.
CCP's original reasoning for nerfing the titans was becuase of the double triple and up to 11 simultaneous DD's 0.0 wars were seeing. CCP you haven't fixed the problem you just focused it from scrapping sub cap fleets to destroying moms, dreads and carriers. Currently the only negating factor is the Titan's lock time. And if you're sitting in a trimarked nyx or aeon, you ain't gonna make it.
Are we going to need mindlink claymore's in fleet for the hope of getting these things off the grid everytime a cyno opens?
Sadly the truth is that even with the HP Buff, there will just me more bright lights. Titans haven't become any easier to kill, and have receieved HP Boosts of their own. Not to mention even if you do kill it, it's gonna take a few moms/dreads/carriers with it.
Dreads and Carriers have become the workhorses of Alliances, and most alliance can afford to lose what they field. Losing a carrier to a doomsday is fairly understandable. But losing a ship that cost 20x as much? It's not like we can sell them for any return on our investment.
Start talking CCP. We want some answers, ideas, thoughts, anything really. We're all in the dark and you're holding all the cards. That's a pretty ****ty feeling when pilots like myself have put a lot into eve over the years and our return is a big middle finger.
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:22:00 -
[34]
Just fit some Sensor Dampners or ECM or whatever EWar and MS is back in line. Dont call CPP brainless when you cannot use your own.
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Wiaf
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: McFly
Start talking CCP. We want some answers, ideas, thoughts, anything really. We're all in the dark and you're holding all the cards. That's a pretty ****ty feeling when pilots like myself have put a lot into eve over the years and our return is a big middle finger.
^^ This --------------------------------------------
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Saturous
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 14:10:00 -
[36]
CCP is kinda like the British Government, they don't know what they're doing or talking about and its questionable; "are they on the same planet as us?"
I don't fly a mothership but even so, get skills Ccp. ♥
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.07 16:43:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/12/2009 16:44:11
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 06/12/2009 11:41:37 Im sure ccp is well aware of the supercarriers current status, so saying theyre useless ships is ****ing in the wind. The real question here is how long its gonna take ccp to change them and what theyre going todo exactly - A little more info exchange would be nice.
Edit, cheapshot: Mom Id Like to Fly? I dont think so!
Fact 1 : CCP do balance changes ONLY when an expansion will be released.
CCP don't know the concept of small but frequent balance patchs who would resolve everything.
Fact 2 : Even if CCP know that there is a problem, they need YEARS to make a change.
We wait for a rocket fix since three years, and it is more urgent since Quantum Rise, but we still wait. Assault Frigates, same thing. Overnerfed nosferatus, same thing...
And as they have a pathological need to nerf everything, they create all the time NEW problems by bad nerfs : Phoenix, Naglfar, etc... who will require YEARS to be corrected too.
So... Don't expect a Mothership change before 2012.
Because it is how CCP work. _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.12.07 17:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Herar Domain
Originally by: Admiral Frools
Originally by: Arzal Even with good lows, theres no way he would have lived with 2 titans shooting him....
Properly fitted post dominion nyx should have in the region of 7.4m EHP, which is just about able to tank 2 DD's on its lowest resist.
At the OP though - it's pretty easy to work out that a titan does 3m damage, that means if you have under 3m EHP you will get instapopped. If you can't tank a single DD, just keep the ship logged off till it gets unnerfed, I'm kinda unsure how people didn't see this coming
-hm so not?
My Nyx has a Buffertank fit with a Highgrade Slave set and I have 4,8mil EHP so say bye bye to u r moms if u get double DD.If u don't want to spend at least the same money for the fitting as for the ship itself u wont survive even one Ragnarok DD.Before u ask. I have 4 Hardners 1 EANM and 2 x t2 trimarks.The hardeners are 60%+ resists and the eanm is Core X type.
7.4m EHP...in you r dreams my young Padawan ;)
really? I'd love to buy a couple of those X-Type EANMS.....wanna tell us where you got them? |
Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.07 20:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Battle Tested
really? I'd love to buy a couple of those X-Type EANMS.....wanna tell us where you got them?
He's smoking crack too
Originally by: Herar Domain
-hm so not?
My Nyx has a Buffertank fit with a Highgrade Slave set and I have 4,8mil EHP so say bye bye to u r moms if u get double DD.If u don't want to spend at least the same money for the fitting as for the ship itself u wont survive even one Ragnarok DD.Before u ask. I have 4 Hardners 1 EANM and 2 x t2 trimarks.The hardeners are 60%+ resists and the eanm is Core X type.
7.4m EHP...in you r dreams my young Padawan ;)
[Nyx, Passive] Capital Armor Repairer I Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
[empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
7.77m EHP with HG Slaves and 5% armor HP implant. Not including oh... things like Erebus bonus, damnation, gang bonuses or ANYTHING. Those lows with erebus + damnation bonus has 11.74m EHP. Unreasonable for somew random empire pubbie ganking people in lowsec in his nyx, but pretty doable by anyone in a 0.0 alliance with active titans
I mean ****, you can fit it with C-Type hardeners and a TS EANM, 3 x Trimark I's + armored mindlink gang bonus and it'll tank 2 of all but explosive DD's
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.12.07 21:48:00 -
[40]
You guys are ******ed. Seriously.
Everyone *****ed about the mothership changes that were supposed to occur in Dominion, and when they saw you all whine and complain like little babies, they decided to scrap the idea and try again later.
Now you're all *****ing about the lack of changes, brought about by your massive amount of QQ. Seriously. What the hell did the lot of you expect?
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King Dave
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Posted - 2009.12.07 22:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Stealthbug You guys are ******ed. Seriously.
Everyone *****ed about the mothership changes that were supposed to occur in Dominion, and when they saw you all whine and complain like little babies, they decided to scrap the idea and try again later.
Now you're all *****ing about the lack of changes, brought about by your massive amount of QQ. Seriously. What the hell did the lot of you expect?
We whined about certain moronic changes like; reducing the cost by 40% so we would lose out on billions of isk we had invested. Or the fact that they reduced the total number of drones of a mom so that it was inline with a carrier, meaning it was simply a very, very tough carrier.
The one thing everyone was 100% positive about was the HP buff's which got scrapped because CCP had a hissy fit.
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.12.07 22:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Stealthbug on 07/12/2009 22:21:13
Originally by: King Dave
Originally by: Stealthbug You guys are ******ed. Seriously.
Everyone *****ed about the mothership changes that were supposed to occur in Dominion, and when they saw you all whine and complain like little babies, they decided to scrap the idea and try again later.
Now you're all *****ing about the lack of changes, brought about by your massive amount of QQ. Seriously. What the hell did the lot of you expect?
We whined about certain moronic changes like; reducing the cost by 40% so we would lose out on billions of isk we had invested. Or the fact that they reduced the total number of drones of a mom so that it was inline with a carrier, meaning it was simply a very, very tough carrier.
The one thing everyone was 100% positive about was the HP buff's which got scrapped because CCP had a hissy fit.
I'm not normally one to defend CCP in many cases, but why do you think they had a "hissy fit"? They had a specific date that they were releasing Dominion in, and all the people whining is what got the mom changes canceled. Otherwise they'd have to push back Dominion causing you all to whine even more... I personally think they should have just rolled out the mom changes, and they could be patched as people used them on TQ.
It's either, deal with the "only slightly better than carrier" moms with fighterbombers, until they ultimately get fixed to your liking. OR Get instapopped by titans right and left. Until moms get fixed to your liking.
If you ask me, the former would have been the better choice.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.07 22:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Stealthbug They had a specific date that they were releasing Dominion in, and all the people whining is what got the mom changes canceled.
Let's see your proof there pardner
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Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2009.12.08 08:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sokratesz wait no this is an utterly ******ed mechanic and needs to go ASAP
so wait...you USED this mechanic with YOUR titan pilot, and you're saying it needs to go? If you don't agree with the change, as an esteemed member of the CSM maybe a bit of abstinence of using the titans in such a way would make a statement?
I find it hard to take your CSM platform seriously when in one breath you're advocating change to what you claim is a broken mechanic, and in another breath you're blatantly using it to get kills.
You cant have it both ways m8. |
Karen Sentari
Caldari So Cash Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.08 08:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Admiral Frools
Originally by: Stealthbug They had a specific date that they were releasing Dominion in, and all the people whining is what got the mom changes canceled.
Let's see your proof there pardner
Dear Admiral Frools,
You are an idiot Good night, Karen Sentari
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Bigpimping
Pimp Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 08:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jennifer Celeste
so wait...you USED this mechanic with YOUR titan pilot, and you're saying it needs to go? If you don't agree with the change, as an esteemed member of the CSM maybe a bit of abstinence of using the titans in such a way would make a statement?.
What's a more compelling argument for a nerf, titans are overpowered as I could have popped a mom in one shot, (such a statement would have just been blown over as an inability to get the kill), or I did pop the mom, showing definitively that DDs are overpowered and that the DD buff is having an undesirable outcome on TQ? ________________________________________ He who pimps, is God... |
King Dave
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Posted - 2009.12.08 09:06:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Stealthbug
I'm not normally one to defend CCP in many cases, but why do you think they had a "hissy fit"? They had a specific date that they were releasing Dominion in, and all the people whining is what got the mom changes canceled.
All the people whining, were the people trying to tell them they had it right in the first place and didn't need to change it. CCP didn't like this whining (which was originally constructive criticism until we got no respone from CCP) as there new changes weren't liked. So they had a "hissy fit" and simply took everything away which they had offered because we didn't like (really didn't like) a couple of the proposed changes. Therefore making them a nearly non-playable ship, as the risk levels are far too high to do anything with them.
Originally by: Stealthbug
Otherwise they'd have to push back Dominion causing you all to whine even more... I personally think they should have just rolled out the mom changes, and they could be patched as people used them on TQ.
Several people said that they would happily wait longer for Dominion just so CCP could sort these issues out. I thought it was a good idea. CCP were happy to degrading this ship to an expensive carrier.
Originally by: Stealthbug
It's either, deal with the "only slightly better than carrier" moms with fighterbombers, until they ultimately get fixed to your liking. OR Get instapopped by titans right and left. Until moms get fixed to your liking.
If you ask me, the former would have been the better choice.
There are definately way more than 2 options CCP had for motherships... They could of stuck with what they implemented originally, which was to have upto 20 fighter bombers with a decent amount of HP. They could of even removed everything apart from the HP buff. This would of still made them viable to use on the capital battlefield now, instead of making them drive-by bullseyes. Why they changed that aswell I don't know. The new doomsday was way more overpowered than any changes they had thought up for the motherships. But they decided to change moms for some reason?
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Silver Tongues
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jennifer Celeste so wait...you USED this mechanic with YOUR titan pilot, and you're saying it needs to go? If you don't agree with the change, as an esteemed member of the CSM maybe a bit of abstinence of using the titans in such a way would make a statement?
I find it hard to take your CSM platform seriously when in one breath you're advocating change to what you claim is a broken mechanic, and in another breath you're blatantly using it to get kills.
You cant have it both ways m8.
Sure he can have it both ways. There's 2 ways to deal with issues. (1) Demand a fix while abstaining from using the broken mechanic; or (2) Demand a fix while taking advantage of the broken mechanic.
#2 sounds like a much better option, especially since the more moms that get instapopped the faster CCP will get fixes rolled out.
It'd be like if your work had an option that only people with 2 arms and 2 legs would get paid $200 extra a day for nothing. Demand having it changed, because Susan who lost an arm is a car accident isn't being treated fairly, but don't turn down the money unless you're an idiot.
Not taking advantage of an obvious loophole, whether you're opposed to it or not, is moronic.
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Man'BearPig Spy
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:07:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Man''BearPig Spy on 08/12/2009 12:07:12 If you pay 70-80 billion for a titan then why the hell should it not be abble to kill a mothership? :S Im not capital pilot but i thought that titans were the ultimate ships?
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:17:00 -
[50]
[Aeon, New Setup 1] Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Energized Regenerative Membrane II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb Shadow Serpentis Large Plasma Smartbomb Remote ECM Burst I True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Over 8m EHP without implants, fleet/command support and so on. Over 12m EHP with HG Slaves and 5% implant, without fleet/command support.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua BiffCo.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Stealthbug Edited by: Stealthbug on 07/12/2009 22:21:13
Originally by: King Dave
Originally by: Stealthbug You guys are ******ed. Seriously.
Everyone *****ed about the mothership changes that were supposed to occur in Dominion, and when they saw you all whine and complain like little babies, they decided to scrap the idea and try again later.
Now you're all *****ing about the lack of changes, brought about by your massive amount of QQ. Seriously. What the hell did the lot of you expect?
We whined about certain moronic changes like; reducing the cost by 40% so we would lose out on billions of isk we had invested. Or the fact that they reduced the total number of drones of a mom so that it was inline with a carrier, meaning it was simply a very, very tough carrier.
The one thing everyone was 100% positive about was the HP buff's which got scrapped because CCP had a hissy fit.
I'm not normally one to defend CCP in many cases, but why do you think they had a "hissy fit"? They had a specific date that they were releasing Dominion in, and all the people whining is what got the mom changes canceled. Otherwise they'd have to push back Dominion causing you all to whine even more... I personally think they should have just rolled out the mom changes, and they could be patched as people used them on TQ.
It's either, deal with the "only slightly better than carrier" moms with fighterbombers, until they ultimately get fixed to your liking. OR Get instapopped by titans right and left. Until moms get fixed to your liking.
If you ask me, the former would have been the better choice.
NO. because once CCP changed them to the newb wagons for mission runners with to much isk. they would never of got changed back. The Lower price was a uncompramisable issue. The Docking was a balance issue beyond reckoning that would of destroyed nearly every change dominion sov system was trying to make. And by the time they had finished balancing that change the "Super carriers would of been totaly worthless" Lossing 6billion- is not a viable option for CCP to inflict on its veterans. The fighterbombers Nozh sujested actually had been made WORTHLESS. they would have done nothing to nearly any capital.
CCP recognised this and even admited they made the "supercarriers to much like carriers"
We want our motherships. And we want them with: EHP. And old fighterbombers.
The design was approved by mass test. There has STILL been no valid reason to appose this change.
FACTS ARE THERE ARE CURRENTLY 400-500 MOTHERSHIPS IN GAME (this is according to ccp's list of active ships) the numbers fieldable. the build cost and time. the build vulnerability of dominion the loss rate on these ships (if they are made fieldable)
CCP feared them POSSIBLY overshadowing dreads. Instead they made the current owners annoyed. And made a "big carrier".
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
King Dave
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:46:00 -
[52]
Edited by: King Dave on 08/12/2009 13:51:05
Originally by: Man'BearPig Spy Edited by: Man''BearPig Spy on 08/12/2009 12:07:12 If you pay 70-80 billion for a titan then why the hell should it not be abble to kill a mothership? :S Im not capital pilot but i thought that titans were the ultimate ships?
if you think in those terms, why can't a mothership kill a carrier or a dreadnaught?
Also not many titan owners pay 70-80 billion. Only the insanely rich or those who can't be bothered to build it for themselves. Build cost is 40-45 billion isk if i remember correctly, including minerals lost from compression. This is only about 4x the price of mothership biuld cost which is roughly 11-13 bill.
Titan's were never meant to be the ultimate ship and they certainly were not meant to be cost effective (according to CCP). But now they are far more than cost effective if they cause destruction on this scale so easily.
Originally by: Narfas Deteis [Aeon, New Setup 1] Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Core C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Energized Regenerative Membrane II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb Shadow Serpentis Large Plasma Smartbomb Remote ECM Burst I True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Over 8m EHP without implants, fleet/command support and so on. Over 12m EHP with HG Slaves and 5% implant, without fleet/command support.
Yes so now 2 doomsdays bring you to low structure. Making the before, long process of killing a mothership (giving it *some* of time to escape), extremely short as 2 hics will be able to hold it for long enough for 2 titans to dd and then use there 100% damage bonus'd weapon systems for it to be dead v. quickly.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.08 16:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Karen Sentari
Dear Admiral Frools,
You are an idiot Good night, Karen Sentari
Dear Karen Sentari,
Your face is a sea of butts
Love, Admiral Frools
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.12.08 18:37:00 -
[54]
Reminds me how I lost my first crow to a sniping geddon, he one-shot me
I was all like, wtf how is that fair, my ship is expensive and gets instapopped by this insured t1 BS.
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RockNova
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Posted - 2009.12.08 19:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Admiral Frools
Originally by: Karen Sentari
Dear Admiral Frools,
You are an idiot Good night, Karen Sentari
Dear Karen Sentari,
Your face is a sea of butts
Love, Admiral Frools
Dear Child,
Grow up
Love, RockNova This solid body holds a soft heart -self quote |
Uncle Jay
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Posted - 2009.12.08 19:23:00 -
[56]
You people whine way to much about it, seriously if you do not want to lose such ship to a titan then either donĘt buy or donĘt sit in it and think nothing will touch you, because thatĘs being so stupid so instead of whining about it, if you donĘt like the idea of a Titan owning you in one hit donĘt take the things out to play then eh.
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Kathraine Avila
Amarr Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.08 20:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Uncle Jay You people whine way to much about it, seriously if you do not want to lose such ship to a titan then either donĘt buy or donĘt sit in it and think nothing will touch you, because thatĘs being so stupid so instead of whining about it, if you donĘt like the idea of a Titan owning you in one hit donĘt take the things out to play then eh.
You are right of course. I already have a mothership but I'll simply dock up and do some... er I mean I'll park it at a Capital Ship Mainenance Array in an invulnerable Pos thanks to Sov 4... no wait, I'll just park it at a pos while I am offline sleeping or at work while any ****wit on the server can put the pos in reinforced hence putting the ship out of my grasp with not much I can do about it? Yeah, good plan. On it.
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King Dave
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Posted - 2009.12.08 22:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Uncle Jay You people whine way to much about it, seriously if you do not want to lose such ship to a titan then either donĘt buy or donĘt sit in it and think nothing will touch you, because thatĘs being so stupid so instead of whining about it, if you donĘt like the idea of a Titan owning you in one hit donĘt take the things out to play then eh.
That's not a waste of a multi-billion isk ship and high skill point character? Can't you see how your points are all wrong?
WAIT! I get it now. Your trolling. OK!
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Bobbechk
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.08 23:37:00 -
[59]
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:17:00 -
[60]
can any1 confirm that DD aint working in lowsec anymore ? aparently it's been "fixed"
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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