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Alpha195
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Posted - 2009.12.07 15:54:00 -
[1]
Im linking this topic from the F&I forum so that more people will see it Gallente Buff
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.12.07 18:49:00 -
[2]
MOARD DPS.
100 dps more on paperthen the same class Amarr BS with 3X lower range is pathetic.
Do not touch fallof and optimal and possibile onlsy slightly buff tracking. If you are able to tackle target properly and manevrou so you apply maximum damage good for you . If you cant then its your problem.
Another solution would be to do not touch dps but significally buff tracking so you could actually move while shooting. But i prefer more dps verision.
Also , self repair bonus on brutix is broken. Armor repairs + MWD + blasters = dead cap. o Besides it makes it better shield buffer than armor buffer if you wanna keep fearfull dps. It should either have bonus for armor hp or speed/agility.
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Gary Goat
Yakuza Corp THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2009.12.07 21:45:00 -
[3]
Signed!
I've been flying blaster ships since 03 and they are in serious need of some help. Really like Gabriels ideas
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.07 21:58:00 -
[4]
Hyperion needs a slight buff as well. Why: It's a active tanking BS that is suppose to have fat tank and fearsome dps with blasters. Why it does not work: You cannot fit neutron blasters with reppers, withought exceeding powergrid, and you also need a speedmod and a heavy cap booster. You cannot have any damgemods, withought that resulting in you having pitiful tank. You cannot buffertank it properly either because you have only 6 low slots. IN pve it isn't quite as bad, but still does not live up to it's name. Solution: 8 low slots and 3 mid slots for decent tank and dps but lack of tacle/e-war/ ECCM/ other supplimentary mid-slot modules. A little more powergrid to allow proper fitting of the sayd ship.
Blaster buff as sayd above. IN the difference of the op i would prefer a tracking increase, so you can speedtank ammar ships at close range, but either way would be satisfactory.
I agree that britux has a stupid bonus, it does not have the slots for a proper active tank in the difference of myrmidon, ROF bonus would make it fearsome, agility would be out of place imao, 10% bonus per level to armor amount owuld fit the best IMAO.
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2009.12.07 23:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 07/12/2009 23:14:11
See this graph, it shows the required tracking to hit an orbiting object based on the range it orbits.
As you can see, the closer it gets, the tracking does not increase linear, but exponentially. Thus a blaster has 5x less tracking than a pulse laser, currently, dealing LESS DPS at optimal. ---
Click banner for info! |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Aineko Macx on 08/12/2009 10:46:13 Yes, moar tracking for blasters plz.
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Also , self repair bonus on brutix is broken. Armor repairs + MWD + blasters = dead cap.
I'd rather see the Brutix getting an armor resist bonus and a slight PG buff.
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Sean Mc
Red White and Screwed Deadline.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 11:31:00 -
[7]
Fully agree, very well thought out.
In ye olde days you would not have seen naval ships attempt MAX DAMAGE, close range, Broadside volleys only for the cannon balls to mysteriously curve away from the target.
Or even a musket being able to pick off a guy with a MASSIVE sword swinging it at your face...
In short: More blaster tracking! good work on the doctrines btw spot on!
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:33:00 -
[8]
---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Hotep Shakkara
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:36:00 -
[9]
Kronos and Hyperion suck balls too, although that's mostly due to hybrids sucking.
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Wingardium Leviosa
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Wingardium Leviosa on 08/12/2009 13:34:28 Supported, also here's a Hyp fit to try, wouldn't fly exactly that but it's a good start:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=4046825
edit: gramma |
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Shemmy
7th Space Cavalry
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:39:00 -
[11]
Blimey, much :effort: went into that. Read it, liked it. Would question whether the AB bonus should be as high as 20% (15 maybe?) as it would be interesting to see the potential nanothron's that might pop up as a result! But yes, some very interesting thoughts taking into account the varying roles and philosophies.
+1 (thumb)
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TimMc
Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 14:01:00 -
[12]
How could anyone who read that post think its a good idea?! Its the embodiment of biased opinion, with that Gallente would become the destroyer of worlds or something.
Go write up a realistic list of changes and we can talk.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.08 15:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TimMc How could anyone who read that post think its a good idea?! Its the embodiment of biased opinion, with that Gallente would become the destroyer of worlds or something.
Go write up a realistic list of changes and we can talk.
you see, i do not treat the proposal as a list of things that HAVE to be done, i treat it more as a list of problems that we have, and a number of solutions that we can offer. Yes, ofcource if all of them are implemented at once, it will probably be overkill, but that is already for CCP to decide, which ones of them come through.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.12.08 19:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TimMc How could anyone who read that post think its a good idea?! Its the embodiment of biased opinion, with that Gallente would become the destroyer of worlds or something.
Go write up a realistic list of changes and we can talk.
I read the thread before it was posted in here, and the only thing I feel would be even the slightest overpowered is the Armour HP boost per level on the hyperion. But with only 6 lowslots I don't think it would be a big issue.
The the proposed changes need some extensive testing and perhaps a few tweaks, but all in all I think the changes would be for the better.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.09 03:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TimMc How could anyone who read that post think its a good idea?! Its the embodiment of biased opinion, with that Gallente would become the destroyer of worlds or something.
Go write up a realistic list of changes and we can talk.
Not sure what you're trying to say exactly, forgive me for possibly taking this the wrong way, but you mean gallente aren't supposed to be the highest damage dealers? Cause i coulda sworn they were
Supported all the way. Gallente are pretty lacking tbh. I'm personally training minmatar cause i'm so fed up at how underwhelming gallente is for me right now.
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ark maphar
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Posted - 2009.12.09 05:39:00 -
[16]
definately supported, gallente FtW!
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:09:00 -
[17]
OMG, so many views and yet so few supports. How can anybody not support this?
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:53:00 -
[18]
Every time I train up a race because it has an advantage, it either eats a nerf bat or another race gets boosted to overcompensate. So far, Caldari, Gallente, and as of the beginning of the month Amarr.
Caldari are heavily missile and ECM focused - both were hugely powerful early on. ECM ate a nerf bat, missiles have eaten several.
Gallente were face-melting, drone-lobbing, super-tanks. Now they can't get in range, can't track when in range, drones still are as likely to shoot a friend as an enemy (or mindlessly orbit your ship while it is ripped apart), and are generally harder to handle than a rhino.
Amarr... talk about the race that eats a nerf bat every time it has an advantage. They are now the most mediocre - mid- damage, tank, speed, agility, tracking, etc race to fly. No serious cons, but no real pros either.
Minmatar seem to (amazingly enough) actually be a worthwhile race to fly now. Once upon a time, they had the Vaga... that ate a bat before I even started Minmatar cruiser 5. Right now, Minnies have arties - incredible alpha. I give them maybe another month though. Because of previous training for the Vaga, I might get a chance to try them out before the nerf this time.
I think what I'm getting at is: STOP THE NERF/BOOST CYCLE. Cycling through nerfs/boosts is not the same as balancing. Balance... don't cycle. Please.
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Berendas
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.09 22:06:00 -
[19]
Supported with all my heart. I miss the days when Gallente were the masters of punch-you-in-the-face-with-an-iron-gauntlet. Now they are just kind of 'meh' and there are a ton of hideous shield tanked variations of Gallente ships, it just sad to watch this happen. Please CCP, make us worthwhile again!
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Dannerkongen
Lootex
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:26:00 -
[20]
my thump!
its up!
atleast have ccp explain why domis fit med guns with succes when u would be told "stoopid" if u did that on any other ****ing bs!
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Dianna Soreil
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dianna Soreil on 10/12/2009 00:36:07 holy ****, stop whining, every race sucks at something, just swallow it and learn to play to your advantages. if blasters can't melt face from beyond 5k then HTFU and don't warp in at 30k
Quote: Blasters are useless and sensor damps are useless, so gallente are terrible and useless except for drones but that's like lol two ships.
Minmatar are totally broken because **** autocannons are terrible and oh god the tempest and the speed nerf and lol webs do **** all and who uses target painters.
Caldari, well, they're caldari so what the hell. Falcons got nerfed to uselessness with omg only 70km optimal on most fits what a load of **** and don't even get me started on the raven.
And ever since the nos nerf curses have been completely useless and christ an AF with two mids and ****. Actually maybe there's a few ships in here that aren't completely unusable. Yeah. Everyone should just get into amarr battleships cause nothing else works in this game.
Cross-posted from here
Quote:
atleast have ccp explain why domis fit med guns with succes when u would be told "stoopid" if u did that on any other ****ing bs!
domi underpowered? ahahahahahaha
Quote: Now they are just kind of 'meh' and there are a ton of hideous shield tanked variations of Gallente ships, it just sad to watch this happen. Please CCP, make us worthwhile again!
lolwut, do you even know why people shield tank their ships?
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Textret
Gallente The Executioners Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:53:00 -
[22]
HUGE support for this!
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Alfons Richthofen
Caldari Die Luftwaffe
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Posted - 2009.12.10 03:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dianna Soreil Edited by: Dianna Soreil on 10/12/2009 00:36:07 holy ****, stop whining, every race sucks at something, just swallow it and learn to play to your advantages. if blasters can't melt face from beyond 5k then HTFU and don't warp in at 30k
Quote: Blasters are useless and sensor damps are useless, so gallente are terrible and useless except for drones but that's like lol two ships.
Minmatar are totally broken because **** autocannons are terrible and oh god the tempest and the speed nerf and lol webs do **** all and who uses target painters.
Caldari, well, they're caldari so what the hell. Falcons got nerfed to uselessness with omg only 70km optimal on most fits what a load of **** and don't even get me started on the raven.
And ever since the nos nerf curses have been completely useless and christ an AF with two mids and ****. Actually maybe there's a few ships in here that aren't completely unusable. Yeah. Everyone should just get into amarr battleships cause nothing else works in this game.
Cross-posted from here
Quote:
atleast have ccp explain why domis fit med guns with succes when u would be told "stoopid" if u did that on any other ****ing bs!
domi underpowered? ahahahahahaha
Quote: Now they are just kind of 'meh' and there are a ton of hideous shield tanked variations of Gallente ships, it just sad to watch this happen. Please CCP, make us worthwhile again!
lolwut, do you even know why people shield tank their ships?
This, what the hell is wrong with the Gallente players here? Paper thin? The EHP is relatively the same! Your weapons don't take the cap of a mwd to use like lasers, they also track harder and can fire 40km with null so quit crying.
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Skraeling Shortbus
Final Agony
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Posted - 2009.12.10 03:36:00 -
[24]
I gave up flying blaster ships, I trained amarr. GOGO gallente bs V :\
Fun out damaging everything i fly with other than other amarr ships heh.
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Flawliss
Pilots of True Potential
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Posted - 2009.12.10 05:56:00 -
[25]
Nothing to add that i havent said a million times Supported
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Tray LiSans
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Posted - 2009.12.10 07:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
This, what the hell is wrong with the Gallente players here? Paper thin? The EHP is relatively the same! Your weapons don't take the cap of a mwd to use like lasers, they also track harder and can fire 40km with null so quit crying.
Just thought I'd point out that the only ship that can approach 40km with blasters is the Rokh with null, which will deal ~680 dps at 35km or so with 3 damage mods. Meanwhile the comparative tier 3 Abbadon hits out to 55km with ~730 DPS on scorch and a higher volley with 3 damage mods.
It's true that Hybrids use less cap, but they also use ammo and don't have instant reload for switching ranges.
In any case, I'll support, but I'd like to see hybrids in general beefed up a bit. Rails are in a slump at the moment as well.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.10 08:41:00 -
[27]
Definitely not supported, it is horribly unbalanced. So horribly I can't even take it seriously.
Blasters have tracking issues. Some of these issue can be mitigated by smart flying. No longer can you just click approach, release drones, turn on your guns and webifier and sit watching the screen while your target dies. I think this is one of the biggest changes affecting many Gallente players, you need to think a lot more.
Blasters do have tracking issues at extreme close ranges, then again, any gun has tracking issues at extreme close range.
If the 500m sig radius Hyperion is within 500m of its also 500m sig radius target transversal shouldn't really matter. The target is literally as broad as a barn and guns shouldn't have any tracking issues.
The current to-hit formula undervalues sig radius at close ranges. I don't care how much your transversal is, but if you are closer than the sig radius of your target, and your sig radius is equal or smaller, I believe your shots should hit a lot more.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jimmi Bones
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Posted - 2009.12.10 09:02:00 -
[28]
Support. I just read that massive wall of text that he obviously put quite a bit of effort into and think gallente ships overall need looking at. Some of the ideas are really good.
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OzDeaDMeaT
The Goodies
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:47:00 -
[29]
long overdue Eve-au.com News Reporter |
Vuoto
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:56:00 -
[30]
ok and i want explosive and em damage cristals and i want kinetic and thermal damage crystals........ and i want an eplosive and thermal cristal...... why not a thermal and kinetic crystal??? and a 32m lenght frigate that can carry 75m3 of drones...... HEhhahaha WHERE THE **** ARE STOCKED THOSE DRONES??? GIVE TO THE RETRIBUTION 20m3 BAY and BAndth NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:14:00 -
[31]
lol this is a joke post right ? Your having us on ?
You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.
Ho Ho Ho.
If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships. I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.
The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.
You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ? It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.
Ranged rails are not a gall spec they are a Cal spec. You want best short range boats boosted and you want ranged option ? erm no.
If you want ranged rails then fly caldari rail boats. Personally I wouldnt bother there all crap.
A set of ships Incursus > Mega that get a 100% boost to afterburner speed. looooool
So every other race has to fit mwd with cap hit , sig hit and large cap usage while gal get to zoom about with ultra effective AB's
If you cant see how that would be massivelly overpowered theres really no hope for your game balancing asperations.
Drones are ****age when properly trained not only againt there class size , but also against smaller targets , blaster may require the application of some tactics but hit hard when used properly.
Some of the best ships in game are Gallente. Off the top of my head Incursus , Vexor , Thorax , Domi , Mega , taranis , ishkur , ishtar , myrm, Moros , Thanny.
Gallente have plenty of PvP options for gang / fleet and solo they do not require any kind of boost.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:05:00 -
[32]
Quote: lol this is a joke post right ? Your having us on ?
no.
Quote: You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.
Ho Ho Ho.
and you're saying amarr is worse than gallente?? are you daft? Caldari are also great gang ships, I wouldn't consider them to be WORSE than gallente atm
Quote: If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships. I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.
Ok,. so i try to adjust my distance by manually flying away from my target and not just webbing. oh **** went to far since my optimal is less than 2 km. oh **** i can't fly back in cause the lag on manual flying is SO ****ING BAD that you can't possibly manually fly and keep your ship within 2km but not under 1.8 km where your guns won't track ****.
It's really not as easy as you think, especially with how horrible manual flying is. i find myself quintuple clicking in space instead of double clicking cause most times the lag doesn't pick up just 2 clicks
Quote: The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.
auto's also have the option of fighting in falloff (which is significantly larger than blasters) and blasters must fight up close. we may have the best paper tracking but it just doesn't seem to work when you're 1 km away from your target.
Quote: You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ? It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.
tbh right now the game does everything for pulse. It's also really hard to get into that range before you're dead from pulses as mwd no longer work in scram range, kinda killing the effectiveness of alot of blaster ships.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dav Varan lol this is a joke post right ? Your having us on ?
You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.
Ho Ho Ho.
If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships. I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.
The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.
You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ? It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.
Ranged rails are not a gall spec they are a Cal spec. You want best short range boats boosted and you want ranged option ? erm no.
If you want ranged rails then fly caldari rail boats. Personally I wouldnt bother there all crap.
A set of ships Incursus > Mega that get a 100% boost to afterburner speed. looooool
So every other race has to fit mwd with cap hit , sig hit and large cap usage while gal get to zoom about with ultra effective AB's
If you cant see how that would be massivelly overpowered theres really no hope for your game balancing asperations.
Drones are ****age when properly trained not only againt there class size , but also against smaller targets , blaster may require the application of some tactics but hit hard when used properly.
Some of the best ships in game are Gallente. Off the top of my head Incursus , Vexor , Thorax , Domi , Mega , taranis , ishkur , ishtar , myrm, Moros , Thanny.
Gallente have plenty of PvP options for gang / fleet and solo they do not require any kind of boost.
You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:
When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.
You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.
Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.
Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Fille Balle
You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:
When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.
You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.
Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.
Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.
this tbh
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Brengholl
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:52:00 -
[35]
one detail i think the OP missed
Helios all covops have 3 high slots, the helios has 2 it's a simple ship doing cloak, probe, cyno so unless there is a small cyno drone i'm not aware of the helios is at a big disadvantage compared to other covops
on the topic i agree, the last few patches were all just a little more nerfing galente of the top of my head for dominion: tracking computers now have stacking penalty... what race has "too much" medium slots so they can afford to fit 2 of those
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soldieroffortune 258
Trinity Council Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:49:00 -
[36]
Supportin' the Gallente Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
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Posted - 2009.12.10 23:59:00 -
[37]
I like this.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.12.11 01:26:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Dav Varan on 11/12/2009 01:26:59
Originally by: Still Harkonnen
Ok,. so i try to adjust my distance by manually flying away from my target and not just webbing. oh **** went to far since my optimal is less than 2 km. oh **** i can't fly back in cause the lag on manual flying is SO ****ING BAD that you can't possibly manually fly and keep your ship within 2km but not under 1.8 km where your guns won't track ****.
It's really not as easy as you think, especially with how horrible manual flying is. i find myself quintuple clicking in space instead of double clicking cause most times the lag doesn't pick up just 2 clicks
you see , you dont understand your own ships.
Flying away will not lower you tracking as much as flying parallel so why are you trying to fly away in a blaster ( ultra close range ) boat.
Here starteth the blaster PvP leason.
1. use orbit 1km or 500m depending upon ship class 2. web and scram opponent 3. make sure you have velocity and transversal on your overview 4. note opponents velocity when scrammed and webbed 5. set your own velocity to be just a little more than your opponents 6. If you cant do this then your ship setup is fail 7. assuming you can go faster than your opponent then notch up the speed a bit at a time till your nearing your guns max tranversal
If all the above is too much for you then use keep at range as this is a close approximation.
7. For ultimate tracking nullification ( bs and cruiser combat ) ( too difficult for frigs imo ) , look at your opponent ( swing the camera around to face the direction he is flying , double click in that direction , select your speed to match his )
Of course this is for solo or small gang work, for fleets target calling by the fc is more important as anyone primaried by a pack of blaster boats is gonna go down so fast you wont have a chance to worry about any of the above.
Originally by: Still Harkonnen
auto's also have the option of fighting in falloff (which is significantly larger than blasters) and blasters must fight up close. we may have the best paper tracking but it just doesn't seem to work when you're 1 km away from your target.
You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his. use above methods or invent your own.
Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.
Originally by: Still Harkonnen
tbh right now the game does everything for pulse. It's also really hard to get into that range before you're dead from pulses as mwd no longer work in scram range, kinda killing the effectiveness of alot of blaster ships.
If your beings scrammed then your also in scram range, if your ships not fast enough try putting less plates and more resists on it next time or fit an ab instead of an mwd and only agress targets that you have scrammed , If you cant get close enough jump your ship out.
100% ab bonus would make the mega so awesome , all other bs would be obsolete. How can you seriosley even contemplate such a thing.
Ab fitted mega has no fitting issues , all other mwd'd ships would have fitting issues. Mega would never have cap issues , all other bs would have cap issues. Mega would always be able to dictate range and tracking , in short mega would allways win.
And then you want 50% better tracking as well , sigh.
Players would have no choice but to train up gal bs and blasters.
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Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.12.11 01:48:00 -
[39]
Yahrr supports Gallente! (and learned to fly Amarr-Caldari and now even Minmatar because of the reasons named in this topic)
There's another thing that is not just about Gallente, but all the drone boats in the game. Still I think this belongs in this topic since Gallente is the mother race to all the drone boats. The only real benefit dedicated drone boats have is the massive drone bay. However, in case of drone types like ECM/neut/damp the drone "damage" is exactly equal to ALL other ships that can field drones, while at the same time the normal weapon systems are not as advanced as they are on dedicated turret ships.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.12.11 02:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Fille Balle
You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:
When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.
scrammed and webbed bs generally dont fly faster than 70m/s its very easy to null out the tracking if you know what you are doing.
Tracking to your opponent = opponents tracking to you
a) Other gun boat , will have a worse tracking situation than you ( lasers ) or equally good/bad ( other blasters & ac's ) . b) Missile Boats , may manourver to raise tracking and take less damage without affecting there own dps, but compensatorilly have no way of increaseing damage on target by lower tracking.
Originally by: Fille Balle
You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.
Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.
Originally by: Fille Balle
Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.
Yes you are at a disadvantage from range , laser boats are a disadvatage close up. Thats the game , getting your ship into a position to poon the opponent.
Originally by: Fille Balle
Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.
Blasters are allready the most powerful weapons in game with the best tracking.
Generally Gallente have second fastest ships in class allready e.g.
Tempest 120 Mega 105 Apoc 94 Raven 94
before skills or mods.
I think you will have a fight on your hands if you want fastest in class. Mini have the toughest job for mantaining there optimal position as its neither close up or at range but somewhere in the middle.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:49:00 -
[41]
Quote: you see , you dont understand your own ships.
Flying away will not lower you tracking as much as flying parallel so why are you trying to fly away in a blaster ( ultra close range ) boat.
Here starteth the blaster PvP leason.
stuff
If all the above is too much for you then use keep at range as this is a close approximation.
7. For ultimate tracking nullification ( bs and cruiser combat ) ( too difficult for frigs imo ) , look at your opponent ( swing the camera around to face the direction he is flying , double click in that direction , select your speed to match his )
Of course this is for solo or small gang work, for fleets target calling by the fc is more important as anyone primaried by a pack of blaster boats is gonna go down so fast you wont have a chance to worry about any of the above.
I'm flying away at first since usually when approaching an enemy, it's hard to stop approaching your enemy and land in orbit or flying parallel to them perfectly at your optimal range. remember, flying just 1 km too close means you just effed up your chance at tracking correctly.
Yes flying like this comes with practice, but often you just cannot help it as you can't control the other person's ship so them doing something you aren't anticipating can mess up your strategy to get in your optimal and NO closer.
Quote: You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his. use above methods or invent your own.
Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.
I personally didn't ask for that, don't try to push the OP's ideas onto me without being sure I support it. I happen to not support this part of the OP.
Quote: If your beings scrammed then your also in scram range, if your ships not fast enough try putting less plates and more resists on it next time or fit an ab instead of an mwd and only agress targets that you have scrammed , If you cant get close enough jump your ship out.
wait, fit less buffer so you get ripped apart even faster as you attempt to close range to get into your optimal? As the pulse lasers are doing almost as much dps as you COULD be doing, but at a much larger optimal. You need the buffer to live long enough to get into range. pulses would kill you before you got into range if you fit no buffer.
if i can't get close enough to scram a target with an afterburner fit, what makes you think i can get away?
Quote: 100% ab bonus would make the mega so awesome , all other bs would be obsolete. How can you seriosley even contemplate such a thing.
whoops we covered this
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.11 03:55:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.
So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Quote:
Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.
So you understand?
No he doesnt.
And the idea about mannualy flying to minimize transversal in a 200 meters range it must be a joke.The same with the idea than since blaster cant track so lasers cant. He is talking about some virtual 1vs1 engagements.
And i agree AB bonus on gallente ships would be bad.
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Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:49:00 -
[44]
some idea's are completly nuts like the afterburner bones....wtf do u want people not flying those ships anymore? And the taranis is fine... u just want to nerf it on that way.... The only changes that 1 see that needs to be done is all the missile requiements on gallente ships.... Gallente has a primary weapon hybrids or drones... so why do i need missile skills on a lachistis.. serious... The deimos could use some more cap or a additional bonus for mwd cap saving. Do u actualy know what a diemos does upclose? It vaporise stuffs faster than u can say fast. 3 of those melt a bs in under a minut.. deimos is fine but the cap or powergrid need to be sorted
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theRaptor
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Quote:
Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.
So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.
For the ignorant:
The current tracking formula seems to be based on a point model. So whether you are 100km's away or 1m away the guns are trying to hit a tiny aim point. However when you are at point blank even though you may "miss" the aim point you still will have a near certainty of hitting the enemy ship some where.
Medium and up blasters should have trouble hitting a fast moving drone or Inty. But there is pretty much no way they could physically miss anything cruiser sized or larger. ---
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production |
Discrodia
Experimental Horizons
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:39:00 -
[46]
Totally supported. I find it irritating as hell that my friend's Eagle can out DPS my Deimos by 100points while tanking three times as much for 5x as long.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Locked, thread is filled with trolling.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.12.11 15:21:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Originally by: Dav Varan You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his. use above methods or invent your own.
Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.
I personally didn't ask for that, don't try to push the OP's ideas onto me without being sure I support it. I happen to not support this part of the OP.
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Supported all the way. Gallente are pretty lacking tbh. I'm personally training minmatar cause i'm so fed up at how underwhelming gallente is for me right now.
^^ Yes you did ( from your ticked support post ). Or did you not bother reading before offering your support all the way ?.
Really dude you did support a post that so completelly overpowereds the Mega no other BS would be viable. I know you wont , but you really need to go think about what the op is saying in his linked post before you withdraw your support.
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Quote:
Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.
So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.
Yes dude , I understand that when your close the silohette of the ship takes up a massive proportion of the view from you ship. like trying to shoot a freight train from 1 meter away. If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire. by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?
Eve does not use the apparent size of the target as a parameter in damage calculations , this is the same for all weapon systems , why should blasters be an exception ?.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.12.11 16:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dav Varan
If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire. by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?
lol
go away troll.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.12.11 17:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dav Varan
If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire. by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?
lol
go away troll.
Its not trolling to point out inconsistences in peoples logic.
I am not against apparent target size being a function in damage calculations. Eve would be more realistic if it were so.
But the same damage calculations run for all guns , so if blasters were getting the benefit of large apparent target size ( cant miss ) all other guns would also get the benefit of large apparent target size ( cant miss ) , even long range weapons would hit for full power at point blank.
It really doenst leave much room for gameplay , which is probably why its not taken into account.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.11 18:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Dav Varan You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.
Actually, I would consider Gallente as bottom of the pile right now.
If I recall correctly, the nano nerfs came at about the same time as the blaster tracking nerf. Megas required both to make frigates, AFs, and ceptors run in fear. As I really don't care at all about blasters (mostly because I prefer mid-to-long-range combat), I'm not going to put in the time to dig through the release notes to find exactly when the nerfs hit, but they were both around the same time.
Add to that the drone tracking and sensor damp nerfs that hit about the same time and you can easily see how Gallente went from top dog to bottom dog in the space of a year (had to wait until Dominion for Minmatar to leave the bottom of the pile - because they were way down at the bottom).
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev Hyperion needs a slight buff as well. Why: It's a active tanking BS that is suppose to have fat tank and fearsome dps with blasters.
The Hyperion is the Gallente version of a Raven. A nice missioning boat. The Hyperion, Raven, and Maelstrom can be used in PVP, but the other two battleship options for each race are better choices for PVP ships. The only race with three good PVP battleships is Amarr, but they get middle dps, alpha, speed, and tank (i.e. none of them have stand out attributes) in exchange.
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Gallente Wet Dream
From a balance perspective, there's a reason Gallente received several consecutive nerfs in rapid succession - Gallente were over-powered. They do need some back though as they are now sort of underpowered.
Originally by: Tray LiSans Just thought I'd point out that the only ship that can approach 40km with blasters is the Rokh with null, which will deal ~680 dps at 35km or so with 3 damage mods. Meanwhile the comparative tier 3 Abbadon hits out to 55km with ~730 DPS on scorch and a higher volley with 3 damage mods.
Stop comparing apples and oranges. The reason Amarr often look so good is because people throw together a mixed fleet and try to have everyone fill the same role. This leads to everyone compromising into the middle ground, where Amarr sit.
The complaint about Gallente ships is less "someone else can pawn me" and more "the other guys in my gang can shoot and kill things before I get in range". This is a real complaint in blob-v-one. However, in a blob-v-blob, the blaster boat should be strong.
As it is, when I call targets, I usually primary Gallente as they almost always glass cannon fit their ships to do silly damage at mid-range. They also (more often than not) have a horrible habit of burning directly at long range fleet or are aligning/motionless waiting for a warp in - making them the best targets in an RR fleet (most likely to die from alpha). In short, their faults are 50% stupid pilots 30% good ship in the wrong fleet and 20% need for slight improvement.
Fix Local |
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.11 19:55:00 -
[51]
Quote: ^^ Yes you did ( from your ticked support post ). Or did you not bother reading before offering your support all the way ?.
Really dude you did support a post that so completelly overpowereds the Mega no other BS would be viable. I know you wont , but you really need to go think about what the op is saying in his linked post before you withdraw your support.
ok if you're going to be cute by trying to base a large portion of your argument on how mine is wrong because I made a small mistake (logical fallacy which truly has nothing to do with the actual argument. Kinda makes me think you're just attacking me instead of arguing your point) and accidentally said I supported the whole thing, then i can go change that. would that make you happy? what would you say to my argument then? would you have some real feedback? Also, don't shoot down the WHOLE argument just because one little part seems to be overpowered. That can be easily adjusted.
Quote: Yes dude , I understand that when your close the silohette of the ship takes up a massive proportion of the view from you ship. like trying to shoot a freight train from 1 meter away. If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire. by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?
Eve does not use the apparent size of the target as a parameter in damage calculations , this is the same for all weapon systems , why should blasters be an exception ?.
probably because blasters are supposed to work close range, but are at extreme disadvantage since we can't even track or stay in range of our optimal range. SOMETHING needs to be changed.
It is completely feasible that a missiles has an explosion radius greater than a target in my opinion. Now, that is very unlikely, given the size of missiles compared to the size of the ships, but it COULD happen. what's really hard to understand is how a turret can't hit a target right up in your face. in my opinion
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.12.11 20:19:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 07/12/2009 23:14:11
See this graph, it shows the required tracking to hit an orbiting object based on the range it orbits.
As you can see, the closer it gets, the tracking does not increase linear, but exponentially. Thus a blaster has 5x less tracking than a pulse laser, currently, dealing LESS DPS at optimal.
It's not an exponential relationship and if you dig up the thread about blaster tracking you'll see that your claims of terrible tracking aren't that well founded and blasters have 3x more falloff then optimal so who says they should hit well at their optimal?
But yeah, blasters need a revision
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kyrieee
Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 20:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Fille Balle
You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:
When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.
No, you Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector. It's independent of |r|
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.12.11 23:19:00 -
[54]
Originally by: kyrieee
No, you Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector. It's independent of |r|
Ok cute stuff, tracking doesn't take into account transversal, it takes into account radial velocity, which oh! doesn't directly depend on radius, but with a very small radius or distance between objects, is easy to get ridiculously high radial speeds.
"Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector".......wut
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2009.12.12 10:26:00 -
[55]
Hi guys,
I don't really want to discuss the whole thread here, there is a lot of detail and that is why it is in F&I discussion. What I will say is the tracking boost is contingent on removing all tracking bonuses. Therefore on the Megathron for example, 50% boost to base tracking would only be, in real terms, a 9% boost over existing tracking.
Gabriel --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Skaverni
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Posted - 2009.12.12 11:49:00 -
[56]
Both gallente and caldari gunboats are crap atm, so the hybrid guns need a boost too not only the ship hulls.
Hybrid guns have all disadvantages as the lasers and projectiles together, but only very limited advantages
disadvantages: -cap use/dependance -tracking -ammo use -have to reload the clips -small clip size -10 sec ammo type change -fixed dmg types -huge fitting issues -low alpha -low range for blasters -low dmg for rails
advantages: -high optimal for highest tier rails (lower tier rails loose this advantage over beams/projectiles or become neglectable) -high dmg for blasters
Disadvantages greatly outweights the advantages.
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xHUN73R
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2009.12.12 19:32:00 -
[57]
While astarte, hyperion and deimos are in dare need of help, I can't miss the fact that there are a lot of bad ideas in that thread and I really hope they don't get a green light.
Sorry mate.
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.12 23:44:00 -
[58]
Supporting the gallente...
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Shawna Gray
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Posted - 2009.12.13 00:22:00 -
[59]
Bump for gallente
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Khalis Sanguar
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Posted - 2009.12.13 02:47:00 -
[60]
Supporting for Gallente, boost the worst race... Cuz they really are
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TimMc
Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 03:15:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Originally by: TimMc How could anyone who read that post think its a good idea?! Its the embodiment of biased opinion, with that Gallente would become the destroyer of worlds or something.
Go write up a realistic list of changes and we can talk.
you see, i do not treat the proposal as a list of things that HAVE to be done, i treat it more as a list of problems that we have, and a number of solutions that we can offer. Yes, ofcource if all of them are implemented at once, it will probably be overkill, but that is already for CCP to decide, which ones of them come through.
I would support a very large tracking buff, say 50% more. Also a bit more damage, say 20%.
I think though, however, I would like to see alot more drones and drone flexibility on all gallente ships. All frigs should having a drone or two eve. And ships should have space for spares, or a set of lights on the mega and other ships. This would give gallente flexibility they currently seriously lack.
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Tray LiSans
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Posted - 2009.12.13 04:21:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Bagehi Stop comparing apples and oranges. The reason Amarr often look so good is because people throw together a mixed fleet and try to have everyone fill the same role. This leads to everyone compromising into the middle ground, where Amarr sit.
The complaint about Gallente ships is less "someone else can pawn me" and more "the other guys in my gang can shoot and kill things before I get in range". This is a real complaint in blob-v-one. However, in a blob-v-blob, the blaster boat should be strong.
As it is, when I call targets, I usually primary Gallente as they almost always glass cannon fit their ships to do silly damage at mid-range. They also (more often than not) have a horrible habit of burning directly at long range fleet or are aligning/motionless waiting for a warp in - making them the best targets in an RR fleet (most likely to die from alpha). In short, their faults are 50% stupid pilots 30% good ship in the wrong fleet and 20% need for slight improvement.
This isn't comparing apples to oranges. You can't have an idea of relative balance without comparing the performance of ships. I compared the performance of a tier3 turret BS to a tier 3 turret BS. It's hardly stretching the imagination. And I did so specifically to counter a misconception that was brought up about blasters reaching 40km.
You are right about the complaint with Gallente ships. By the time you swing around and burn towards the primary, it's usually all ready dead or close to it. After a few ships, you'll also be capped out from whirling around the field with your MWD churning. This isn't the fault of bad piloting or target calling though. There's nothing you can do when you're out of range of the primary except attempt to close or fire at something else.
Your statement about target calling doesn't really help your argument. You specifically shoot at Gallente ships because you know they usually have to sacrifice tank for DPS and speed and they won't be able to shoot back at normal engagement ranges. I've seen the same thing done regularly as well. Granted if the blaster boats get in range they pose a real threat, but that rarely happens anymore.
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GheyNeil
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Posted - 2009.12.13 18:07:00 -
[63]
Supported, Gallente have been sub-par for some time.
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Mojihito
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Posted - 2009.12.14 15:48:00 -
[64]
Supporting buff for gallente and/or revision of blasters .
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.01.06 15:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 06/01/2010 15:31:48 serious ccp.....
Gallente primary wepons are drones. Secundary are hybrid guns
Minmatar primary wepons are projectile wepons secondari are missiles
Amarr primary wepons are lasorz and secudary are drones
Caldari primary are missles and secondary are hybrid weapons.
So pls explain to my why some gallente ships have missile slots??
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Khanstruct
United Miners and Manufacturers Co. High Treason Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.06 15:58:00 -
[66]
Supported
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Eato
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.01.06 18:08:00 -
[67]
Support 100%. In the three plus years I've been ingame, all I have seen are nerfs for Gallente. |
VIncent Vance
Taurus Inc THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2010.01.06 21:31:00 -
[68]
Supported
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Regulottus
Taurus Inc THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2010.01.06 21:32:00 -
[69]
Supported
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Seymour Roids
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.01.06 21:33:00 -
[70]
Supported
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2010.01.06 21:58:00 -
[71]
Supporting the cause.
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Wu Jiaqiu
Res Ipsa Loquitor
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Posted - 2010.01.07 01:31:00 -
[72]
Supported - Gallente need some loving too
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EdvensoR
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Posted - 2010.01.07 11:27:00 -
[73]
supported
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.01.07 14:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 06/01/2010 15:31:48 serious ccp.....
Gallente primary wepons are drones. Secundary are hybrid guns
I disagree. Gallante primary weapons are Hybrids with Secondary drones in support. Most gallante ships get bonuses towards hybrids not drones. Some ships do get a primary bonus to drones but the majority use hybrids as the primary
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Kaldoreign
CNexus
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:42:00 -
[75]
Supported
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Ramon Wilco
Caldari Psycho Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:47:00 -
[76]
Maybe,
but if they got drones for frigates, it will be at expense of cargohold capacity, first..
And then if you redraw the missile launchers slot to make them hybrid, gallente will never have to skill missile... but they could'nt use counter missile ...
Well, i dont matter i dont fly gallente... but... you cant have a 20% more damage without a lack elsewere, no? Fear your incomprehension, but love the differences. Ramon Wilco |
Sir SmellyFart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.07 18:41:00 -
[77]
This NEEDS to happen!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.01.07 19:40:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ramon Wilco ... but they could'nt use counter missile ...
Wait, did you just try to claim defender missiles work?
Fix Local |
Billatron
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Posted - 2010.01.08 00:38:00 -
[79]
Gallente are fine... not supported. Its not like you don't see Gallente ships, there is always going to be something at the bottom of the food chain, take your turn.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2010.01.08 00:51:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Billatron Gallente are fine... not supported. Its not like you don't see Gallente ships, there is always going to be something at the bottom of the food chain, take your turn.
We're taking our turn, which means it's about time to start whining so we get buffed in maybe 1 or 2 years.
In case you didn't notice, those on bottom get BUFFED.....which is why we're asking for a BUFF.
You're really smart, you know that?
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Succubine
Caldari Succubine Dynasty Technologies
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Posted - 2010.01.08 04:34:00 -
[81]
Gallente are fineÖ.
I see a ton of gallente ships in both 0.0 and empire. There may be a few ships that could benefit from some minor revisions, but to suggest anything more is simply unnecessary.
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Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.01.08 15:11:00 -
[82]
pre-Dominion I kept seeing a tonne of Minmatar ships too - where they fine as well? It's a fallacy to assume just because people train and fly a races ships that it must be because they perform fine.
Some people might train a ship because they already have years worth of SP put into that faction, some people may fly a ship for aesthetic concerns, but to claim that "people fly these ships so there must be nothing wrong with them" is nothing short of forum trolling.
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sir gankalot
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Posted - 2010.01.08 15:41:00 -
[83]
Supported
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pHenomena1337
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.01.08 16:59:00 -
[84]
Please.
---------------------------------------------
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Syringe
Incura
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Posted - 2010.01.08 17:39:00 -
[85]
I don't know if I'd take ALL of these changes, but I think that this list ought to be looked at seriously. --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question. |
Syringe
Incura
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Posted - 2010.01.08 20:47:00 -
[86]
oh right - supported... --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question. |
Borntorule
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Posted - 2010.01.09 03:21:00 -
[87]
support
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.01.10 00:27:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 10/01/2010 00:28:17 How about also fixing caldari hybrid ships so they could actually use blasters too? Wait what caldari hybrid boats can someone fly them? What about other weapons tracking small targets? Torpedoes anyone? pew pew 10 dps on tech 3 cruiser?
I am just saying while I understand gallente ship pilots are annoyed that their blaster boats aren't so awesome than i.e. equal level drone boat I think just simply boosting gallente blasterboats isn't really right way to do this... Also gallente ships have some advantages compared to amarr etc. Amarr cannot fit so many tackling mods on mid slots to target paint/web..
Tracking modules on mids anyone?
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2010.01.10 00:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 10/01/2010 00:28:17 How about also fixing caldari hybrid ships so they could actually use blasters too? Wait what caldari hybrid boats can someone fly them? What about other weapons tracking small targets? Torpedoes anyone? pew pew 10 dps on tech 3 cruiser?
I am just saying while I understand gallente ship pilots are annoyed that their blaster boats aren't so awesome than i.e. equal level drone boat I think just simply boosting gallente blasterboats isn't really right way to do this... Also gallente ships have some advantages compared to amarr etc. Amarr cannot fit so many tackling mods on mid slots to target paint/web..
Tracking modules on mids anyone?
wut
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Eve Orwell
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Posted - 2010.02.01 05:41:00 -
[90]
definately supported
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RootEmerger
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Posted - 2010.02.01 07:03:00 -
[91]
Supported
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Kvo Vadis
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Posted - 2010.02.01 07:55:00 -
[92]
Supported.
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Bubbled
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Posted - 2010.02.01 11:57:00 -
[93]
signed
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Lionel Redstar
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Posted - 2010.02.01 11:58:00 -
[94]
Supported
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Soeniss Delazur
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.02.01 12:26:00 -
[95]
No. Blasters are the issue, not Gallente.
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BEINBE
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Posted - 2010.02.01 13:17:00 -
[96]
Supported!! Please make this happen, where are the devs??
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WaiKin Beldar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.01 16:13:00 -
[97]
tl;dr the whole thread.
Anyway, back to the core of the question. I have a proposal for CCP: Why don't you check how many Gallente pilots, since a couple of years, are still sticking to gallente ships? Once we became aware of how this game works, most of us quitted a long time ago about flying Gallente.
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crimson fire
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:40:00 -
[98]
I support this! |
InColdBlood
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Posted - 2010.02.03 17:14:00 -
[99]
Yup!
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Jonah Pod
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Posted - 2010.02.03 19:49:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Jonah Pod on 03/02/2010 19:49:07 Second that.
I'm Gallente, how can I ... ;) I want my old Blasterax to become as mean and nasty as it used to be!
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Belsazzar
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Posted - 2010.02.04 01:09:00 -
[101]
Do you think they will actually listen to us on this? Does CCP hate gallente ;) ?
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.02.04 02:21:00 -
[102]
As close range battleship pilot, I'm much more tempted to use Amarr bs + pulse laser than Gallente + blasters. One exception being the Dominix, since it has powerful drones that offset the blaster disadvantage.
As far as pure damage output goes, blaster vs pulse advantage is too small to be seriously considered. The most influencing factor in weapon choice becomes optimal range - where 10-15km is the best range to have for close range battleship, both in terms of average battle distance and tracking considerations.
The niche for blaster advantage is too small. CCP like to balance stuff by making everything the same, but it's rather boring. What's the point of having wide variety of choices if all the choices are essentially the same. But then, it's just a matter of principle.
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ShahFluffers
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.02.04 03:36:00 -
[103]
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Altaica Amur
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.04 03:43:00 -
[104]
Yeah, Gallente need some fixing across the board. While I understand that some of the recommendations in the Gallente MkII thread may be overpowered the themes and ideas behind the improvements seem sound enough to be considered as a basis for an overhaul to Gallente ships which are outside of a few drone boats are all in need of some work, largely connected to the issues with blasters and rails.
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.02.04 06:37:00 -
[105]
Gallente don't suck, your guns suck. It's okay, as a Caldari dude I feel for you, as we use the same crappy guns..
Hybrids make the angels weep with sadness. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
RootEmerger
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Posted - 2010.02.04 08:16:00 -
[106]
Edited by: RootEmerger on 04/02/2010 08:17:44
Originally by: Jim Raynor Gallente don't suck, your guns suck. It's okay, as a Caldari dude I feel for you, as we use the same crappy guns..
Hybrids make the angels weep with sadness.
Problem is that as a backup mechanic Caldari have missiles - and while they have a few issue (ROCKETS!) they fill nicely where hybrid guns have their issues. Gallente as backup mechanic have drones and drones have been nerfed to oblivion for really good reasons; they should be nerfed even more imho (mostly in pve... just bring on sleeper AI and goodbye afk dronemissioners) - so they arent a fallback mechanic as good as missiles.
Hybrid love is needed, but wont be enought to bring Gallente on par with other races, would just fix Caldari problems...
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2010.03.07 10:21:00 -
[107]
I feel there's been a lot more value added to the original thread since this was first posted:
1. Crunched the numbers of damage vs. smaller ships with the tracking boost (very little effect on cruisers and below),
2. The affect of removal of the Megathrons tracking bonus on railgun use (no effect vs. correct sized targets)
3. Addition of an inertia 'drawback' to accompany the AB bonuses (enhanced straight line speed at expense of turn rate)
Oh and, supported
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
RawNerv
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Posted - 2010.03.29 05:23:00 -
[108]
Supported
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.03.29 06:19:00 -
[109]
I hate being the one race who's ships don't have a viable "purpose."
Amarr ships are great for tanking and fleet warfare... Minmitar are great for speed and skirmish warfare... Caldari have awesome weapon ranges and excel in electronic warfare.
Gallente ships are supposedly the kings of solo combat... but with the state of solo combat as it is that role is becoming more and more impossible (a situation that will only get worse as EvE gains more and more players).
Supported (on the basis that the the ship and/or weapon revisions are within reason). _______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Kvo Vadis
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Posted - 2010.03.30 01:26:00 -
[110]
Hybrid weapon is bad. Blasters have short range, almost same tracking as AC, eat CAP, fixed damage type. Rails have bad tracking, small DPS, eat CAP, fixed damage type.
Drones is not Gallente advantage. A lot of non Gallente ships have big drone bays/bandwidth. BTW big drone bay/bandwidth usually penalize quantity of slots example Cruisers: Thorax 50m3 5-3-5 Rupture 30m3 6-3-5 Moa 15m3 6-4-4 Maller 0m3 6-3-6
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Fak Jaelt
Cabal Armaments
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Posted - 2010.03.30 02:33:00 -
[111]
Thumbs up |
Elrianmk2
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Posted - 2010.03.30 12:29:00 -
[112]
Wouldn't mind seeing a bit of work on the Hybrid platform set myself, in effect i have found that I dont fly Gallente ships nearly as much as i thought i would/should, in fact my primary platforms tend to be Amarr and ORE, I only wheel out the Mega for PVE with Rails and tbh, that is a pita.
Hybrid work would benifit the Caldar as well, but we could really do with some Blaster boat love...
Remember Hating Gallente is cool atm, but soon(tm) it will be your turn!
Actually thinking about it, its always been cool
If it wasnt for bad luck, i wouldnt have any luck at all |
Scrumpy Jim
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Posted - 2010.03.31 12:44:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Merdaneth
... Blasters do have tracking issues at extreme close ranges, then again, any gun has tracking issues at extreme close range. ...
Blasters are an extreme close range weapon... Why do they have tracking difficulties at their optimal?
Thumbs up to the proposal.
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Perdition64
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Posted - 2010.03.31 14:21:00 -
[114]
Supported
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SlayerOfArgus
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.03.31 14:35:00 -
[115]
Signed!!!
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Vizirion
The Deliberate Forces
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Posted - 2010.04.02 17:43:00 -
[116]
Signed
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GenThrockmorton
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Posted - 2010.04.02 20:38:00 -
[117]
signed
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Deviana Sevidon
Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.02 20:50:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 02/04/2010 20:50:32 Supported, one of the Gallente problems are not only DPS or range, but also tank. When a passive shield bonus is more powerful then an active armor tank with bonuses, then numbers are wrong, so a gallente boost should include a significant boost to armor repairers
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.05 18:11:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 02/04/2010 20:50:32 Supported, one of the Gallente problems are not only DPS or range, but also tank. When a passive shield bonus is more powerful then an active armor tank with bonuses, then numbers are wrong, so a gallente boost should include a significant boost to armor repairers
No it should not. The idea that you will have ships which require a blob to kill them is just stupid.
It's tell-tale that many Gallente ships (hi Brutix) right now are better shieldfit, since shield fit meshes better with large DPS and better speed for getting in your optimal range in the first place, both things which Gallente need.
Removing repair bonuses in favour of something which is weapon related is the best way to deal with everything but possibly the battleships.
For instance, a Myrmidon with 125m3, -1 turret slot, removed repair bonus in favour of +25m3 dronebay per level would be just perfect; a ganky (if you fit it like that) full-blooded droneboat.
Brutix with falloff bonus to enable it to better project its DPS in scram range? Sounds way more useful then repair bonus on a ship which is supposed to be a gankboat but has so limited lowslots (and fitting which imo needs love anyway).
Other then that, yes, Gallente need a buff, most of their ships (and the guns) now are considerably sub-par really.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:27:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Other then that, yes, Gallente need a buff, most of their ships (and the guns) now are considerably sub-par really.
You are confusing "doesn't do what I want" with "doesn't do what it should". Case in point: The brutix and Myrmidon. Both very good ships(though the Brutix does suffer from "tieroneitis"). They do not need boosts to be longer range, or have more longevity(Seriously, -1 turret for 50 cubes of bandwidth? Ridiculous).
Racial balance in EVE is not and has never been "Every race should do everything" but rather "every race should have a thing that it does well at". Rather than examining what Gallente do well and where the issues lie, these threads have devolved into foolish requests for more DPS and range without understanding what those things really mean and how that changes the game. (the lack of respect for EHP in the rail thread is hilarious for instance)
Your requests not only ignore these aspects of balance in favor of utterly ridiculous general buffs, but ignore even the basic mechanics of how bonuses are calculated (for instance, a 10% bonus to sensor dampeners is entirely overpowered), ignore racial paradigms regarding tanking(and how this can be seen as a general problem rather than anything Gallente Specific), flat out mis-represent the strength of ships, and take singular issues and apply them to a Gallente framework.
Is the Hyperion a bad ship? No. Its actually quite good at what it does, especially compared to the Minmitar, Amarr, and Caldari equivalents. Is there instead a problem with the strength of Torpedo's? Good lord, very likely. Is there a problem with the speed penalty on armor rigs(probably).
Are these Gallente issues? Only so much as they affect Gallente ships disproportionately. Does this mean that boosting Gallente is the way to fix these problems? Unlikely.
Now, this does not mean there are not problems with Gallente. The more solo-oriented ships are the more versatile they need to be (see; The Tempest, Hurricane, Rupture). But if they do not have that versatility they need to have secondary characteristics enough to make them have more ability the fewer players are on the field. Which is to say that they need to lock faster, be faster, and have and have a smaller signature radius. Very few of the Gallente ships have this advantage over their more specialized compatriots. This reduces their effectiveness.
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Doctor Aibolit
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:54:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Doctor Aibolit on 05/04/2010 22:56:12
Originally by: Goumindong
these threads have devolved into foolish requests for more DPS and range without understanding what those things really mean and how that changes the game
Actually increasing DPS [of blasters] looks like less painful. Increasing optimal makes them look-alike of lasers, increasing falloff makes them similar to AC. Very close range is Gallente "racial paradigm". But after 90% web nerf it is much more difficult to approach at optimal faster. Gallente ships are not the fastest in the game. And armor tanking does not add agility and speed. Gallente should use MWD to reach optimal. During approach they receive damage. They need to compensate received damage when reach long range target. For example Mega pulse do 85% damage of Blaster damage at 300% range of Blaster range (comparing Scorch VS Null it is 85% damage at 400% range). Rails is separate issue. How to buff Gallente without braking "Gallente paradigm" less painful P.S. Gallente drones (racial advantage) - some times good only in EFT. They are destroyable and can be slower then target.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:07:00 -
[122]
i think that when i first started to support this thread I had a sad on with blasters.
Now that I've calmed down and thought about it alot I can more clearly see better solutions to the problems gallente face
1) Blasters. We can't hide from this. Blasters need an improvement in damage output. But not tracking. 2) Speed. Gallente ships are predominantly armour tanked ships. Armour makes you slow. I think an increase of gallente ships base speed but a decrease in their agility can fix this. Give them good straight line speed but very large turning circles. This means you can charge into range but can easily be out manouvered by some clever piloting. 3) Active tanking. I think active tanking needs a boost across the board. I also think that there is a massive disparity between an active tank bonus vs a resist bonus. Resist bonused ships can use their bonus effectivly as an active tank as good as an active tanked ship. It also helps towards buffer tanks and helps out RR'ing. The active tank bonus doesn't carry like the resist bonus does. So like proposed elsewhere, make the active tank bonus x% (I like the figure 9% instead of 7.5%) per level to ammount repaired AND remote repair recieved 4) RSD's could use a very minor buff 5) Gallente gang links are information warfare links. I mean c'mon! This is not the gallente way. A new warfare link and skill set needs to be introduced. I suggest the "Assault Warfare" set. The skill and gang links would effect weapon performance. Needs to be heavily looked into though. Information warfare would not be lost. There needs to be a new ship class. Special Ops Command. Used in Cov Ops fleets to boost EWAR etc.
Just throwing my ideas out there.
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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:42:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Doctor Aibolit [...]
You've misread the problem. The problem has never been application of damage(for instance, MF does not do 85% of the damage that AM does, it does less. RAW =/= Real) but always getting to the point where it can happen/applying it in gangs that are not small. The second part of that we have agreed is not an issue as it ought to be a problem with blasters. The first part is not fixed by adding DPS.
For instance, many of the typical "stealth nerfs" that have supposedly hurt Gallente have actually boosted them. Many people claim that rigs and HP boosts have hurt Gallente. This is patently the opposite (except with regards to the speed penalty on armor rigs). As hit points increase, the time it takes to close distances is decreased relative to the time of the entire fight. This means that as hit points are increased, the strength of longer ranged weapons is reduced. As repping strength is increased, the strength of active repair is increased, fight time is increased, and the value of extra damage increases(E.G. 1000 dps against a 900 dps tank is 100 dps real, 1100 dps is 200 dps real, +10% dmg actual = +100% dmg real). Gallente not only have the hardest active remote repair tanks(on ships that can actually do damage) but also the most DPS up close where those can be expected to work. Both rigs and overloading have increased tanks further than damage and the damage that is increased is increased more against those harder tanks by blasters more than any other weapon system. And again, as fight time is increased, the liklihood that they devolve into shorter ranges is increased.
So why are Gallente so bad? Part of it has been a shift towards larger combats. The rest of it is ignorance of roles besides damage dealing, how to tank efficiently in small engagements and how to pilot ships.
Examine what the ships do objectively. The Dominix is one of, if not the best RR BS in the game. The Megathron is a decent sniper(train Rokhs, they're much better, but eh, the training time here isn't much) and the Hyperion is beast in either plate/rep or dual rep mode. The Thorax is the second best combat cruiser the the Brutix and Myrmidon are just peachy(Brutix suffers from "tieroneitis" though). The Deimos isn't very good because the Brutix is better, the Ishtar is a wonderful little machine for fast gangs. The Arazu is an great member of any fast gang (hey, oh long scrambler) as is the Lachesis if you can deal without the cloak. The frigates aren't to great, but no frigates are great compared to the rifter and vigil. The Taranis is very good and the Ares is one of the best tackle inties (Malediction would hold this if it had a lock range that extended beyond its own nose...
I mean, when it really gets down to it, the complaints are that the Deimos(and Thorax imo) doesn't do what it should well enough, the Brutix was designed to compete with the Prophecy and Cyclone and the Hyperion was introduced as the age of the Solo blaterboat was waning and people simply haven't caught on to what it does (and that torp boost).
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Doctor Aibolit
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Posted - 2010.04.06 04:11:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Goumindong MF does not do 85% of the damage that AM does, it does less
Pardon? Open EFT (EVE theoretic tool). Fit 2 ships with identical damage bonus. Compare them with 1 turret fitted. Calculate some figures. Abbadon - Mega Pulse II - MF - 60DPS - 15+10km Hyperion - Neutron II - AM - 70DPS - 4.5+13km 60/70*100%= 85.71% 15/4.5*100%= 333.33% Harbinger - Heavy Pulse II - MF - 45DPS - 7.5+5km Brutix - Heavy Neutron II - AM - 53DPS - 2.3+6.3km 45/53*100%= 84.9% 7.5/2.3*100%= 326%
It is mathematic model with numbers. Show me you model that consider all factors of your idea "RAW =/= Real". It is very difficult to consider all factors: who is you target, what is your speed, what kind of hardeners have you fitted, how much CAP batteries you have in cargo, does you mouse work, do you have electricity in you house etc
P.S. about fleet snipers there is a big discussion here
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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.04.06 04:26:00 -
[125]
You should try like... shooting at ships (where it will matter whether or not you're using different weapons. I.E. fights you're going to win, or going to lose aren't much help) and getting some estimations based on those.
I'll give you a hint. For solo/small gang battleships you're largely going to shoot armor(when it matters) with the exception of the Raven
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Doctor Aibolit
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Posted - 2010.04.06 05:11:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Goumindong You should try like... shooting at ships [...] and getting some estimations based on those.
Oh really?! Cool. Let me advise this to engineers and constructors that make tones of schemas, projects, calculations before implementing models into real objects. Let me just say them they waste their time. It is better to build a airplane and try will it fly or not. It is better to build a bridge first to see is it durable enough or they should build new one?
Originally by: Goumindong I'll give you a hint. For solo/small gang battleships you're largely going to shoot armor(when it matters) with the exception of the Raven
I will give you a hint also. There is a SOLO PVP in EVE. It is also very interesting. When I fit solo PVP ship. I do not know who is my enemy. It can be shield ship. It can be armor ship. It can be shield ship with Photon Field. It can be armor ship with Explosive Hardener. I do not know.
P.S. Doctor Aibolit is my "jita alt"
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.06 06:11:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Goumindong
You are confusing "doesn't do what I want" with "doesn't do what it should".
Oh, whatever, I'll just keep flying Minmatar when I need to gank something point blank, just thought that it was supposed to be a Gallente thing Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.04.06 13:35:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Oh, whatever, I'll just keep flying Minmatar when I need to gank something point blank, just thought that it was supposed to be a Gallente thing
Except that is not what you suggested. Nor is it what has been suggested.(and frankly, its what Gallente already do)
Originally by: Doctor Aibolit
I will give you a hint also. There is a SOLO PVP in EVE. It is also very interesting. When I fit solo PVP ship. I do not know who is my enemy. It can be shield ship. It can be armor ship. It can be shield ship with Photon Field. It can be armor ship with Explosive Hardener. I do not know.
P.S. Doctor Aibolit is my "jita alt"
"When it matters" is a very important point. As is "why flying battleships" (Harb/Brutix is an unfair comparison given the "tieroneitis" of the Brutix)
Quote:
Oh really?! Cool. Let me advise this to engineers and constructors that make tones of schemas, projects, calculations before implementing models into real objects. Let me just say them they waste their time. It is better to build a airplane and try will it fly or not. It is better to build a bridge first to see is it durable enough or they should build new one?
Figure of speech. What I advised you do to was examine expected tolerances and determine those. Just as bridge builders are typically interested in maximum sustained windspeed and gust windspeed but not too interested in 5 mile per hour winds, you should go examine your tolerances where they matter.
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Soapy5
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.04.26 22:15:00 -
[129]
i definitely like the t1 frig and bs changes.
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Boraf Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.27 09:44:00 -
[130]
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.04.27 10:02:00 -
[131]
f**k yes! gallente ships need a buff in blasters and in active armor tanking also the drone boats should be real drone boats which can compete with gun an missile ships dps wise in that process the manufacturers should be revisited and the rolls of the ships should be cleared out and eventually switch manufacturer |
Olozim
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:15:00 -
[132]
As much as I love my Blaster boats I think buffing blasters as much as you are talking about here would make them ridiculously OP. Maybe give them a little bit of tracking love to help with the "in your face punching your mouth" concept but to be honest I think blasters are pretty well balanced atm. Show me any t1 cruiser fit for short range that I can't get more DPS out of a Thorax or Vexor.
Railguns on the other hand.... those things are like using a bow and arrow against an F-22. Spike can't track for **** and you mine as well be shooting spit balls if you use t1 ammo.
Not supported to the extremes that the OP is proposing, and they are EXTREME.
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Olozim
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.27 15:36:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Olozim on 27/04/2010 15:38:10
Originally by: Crazy KSK Edited by: Crazy KSK on 27/04/2010 10:36:50 also the drone boats should be real drone boats which can compete with gun an missile ships dps wise
I cannot fathom what possessed you to say this. Compete with missile ships in terms of DPS? Are you serious?
1. Vexor's (to my knowledge) can produce the most DPS out of any normal t1 cruiser. AND ~half of the DPS is unaffected by EWAR, what more do you want? 2. Drone boats strength lies in their versatility. Have you ever fought a Dominix fit with heavy neutralizers? They will rain pretty hard on just about everyone's day. I've even seen neut Myrmidons used with great effect by Ushra'Khan. You can also fit a mean tank on pretty much any drone boat and just take a crap-load of damage while your drones do the work. Or go balls-to-the-wall with some blasters and get up in peoples face. Or play the support role and sit out at range with some railguns while your drones rip some poor guy apart. Or use Sentries to help you play sniper.
Crap guys I'M A GALLENTE PILOT and even I know that we got it good. If you're gonna run missions and hang in empire space fly Caldari and poof, problem solved.
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Vilgan i'Lakin
Pirates and Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.04.28 02:51:00 -
[134]
Nice list of ideas. Gallente are the weakest by far and really need a buff. Maybe not this dramatic, but a buff for sure (especially medium rails).
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.28 06:29:00 -
[135]
NOOOOT Supported...
While a few of the ideas are ok-ish, most are crap. Take the launchers off the Lach? Are you insane? Nice job there reducing the total peak DPS of that ship. Other changes are of a similar fashion. Why BOTHER with falloff bonuses for blaster ships when blaster pilots don't give a crap if their blasters have 2km more falloff. Upping the effective range from 4km to a whole 6km isn't going to make blaster pilots happy. Making blasters do huge damage and hit anything inside their limited range will.
More fail: AB bonus for Astarte? Really? Because a bonused AB running my ship up to a giant 500m/sec is a good idea? ******ed. Blaster ships need to be able to do one thing: SPRINT into range and then hammer the crap out of something. With an AB fit, unless somehow you deem it ok for them to produce MWD level speeds, the blaster ship is dead before it can do anything.
Anyway, C for effort but F for execution. Gallente needs to be helped out quite a bit, but the large majority of these ideas are poorly thought out. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Soon Shin
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:04:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Soon Shin on 28/04/2010 07:09:19 Edited by: Soon Shin on 28/04/2010 07:09:08 Edited by: Soon Shin on 28/04/2010 07:05:51 I've flown gallente ever since I've started and I really tried, I really really really really tried to make the best of the race, but I've been met with nothing but disappointment.
1. Gallente Blaster Ships are too slow.
2. Drones seem to do less damage than indicated on paper. Popped very easily and issues with AI. Gallente only has a few specialize drone boats to begin with, the rest are blaster ships. Other races can field impressive drones as well.
3. Too Much cap usage- MWD + MWD cap reduction + Active Tanking + Stasis Web + Cap using Hybrids.
4. Hybrids are too weak and have lost their truly redeeming features. Massive Falloff Projectiles thanks to Dominion with Tracking Enhancer boost. - No more range advantage for Railguns. Pulse lasers do 80-90% of Blaster DPS with 3 times the range.
5. Powergrid issues on ships like Deimos, Brutix, Astarte, and Hyperion. You can only fit wimpy Electron Blasters to have decent armor tank. Minmatar and Amarr ships mostly do not have that problem, they have plenty of PG to spare after fitting their highest tier of short range guns.
6. Stupid Gallente Storyline missions, wtf 15 jumps into low sec doing a mission harder than most level 4's for a 100k isk and a crap implant?
7. Most Gallente LP items along with Minmatar have no truly redeeming features.
I don't fly Gallente anymore I fly Amarr and Minmatar. The Federation has lost its appeal to me.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.04.28 07:55:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Blaster ships need to be able to do one thing: SPRINT into range and then hammer the crap out of something. With an AB fit, unless somehow you deem it ok for them to produce MWD level speeds, the blaster ship is dead before it can do anything.
Are YOU willing to take a 100mil+ ISK HAC or Command ship right up next to an enemy knowing full well they will primary you first, neut you til you can't even use a Damage Control Unit, and then rip you to pieces as your tank is worthless without cap?
I'm sorry, but I can't burn through ISK like that. If it's a T1 Thorax or a Brutix, fine... those are expendable due to nice insurance returns. But when flying such an expensive ship I want there to be at least a CHANCE that I'll come back in one piece. Otherwise there is no point in bringing it out in the first place. _______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.04.28 08:54:00 -
[138]
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Blaster ships need to be able to do one thing: SPRINT into range and then hammer the crap out of something. With an AB fit, unless somehow you deem it ok for them to produce MWD level speeds, the blaster ship is dead before it can do anything.
Are YOU willing to take a 100mil+ ISK HAC or Command ship right up next to an enemy knowing full well they will primary you first, neut you til you can't even use a Damage Control Unit, and then rip you to pieces as your tank is worthless without cap?
I'm sorry, but I can't burn through ISK like that. If it's a T1 Thorax or a Brutix, fine... those are expendable due to nice insurance returns. But when flying such an expensive ship I want there to be at least a CHANCE that I'll come back in one piece. Otherwise there is no point in bringing it out in the first place.
You must be new around here....
Seriously, get at me in game sometime if you want to talk shop about blaster ships.
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Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.21 15:35:00 -
[139]
Bellum in a "doesn't know jack about blasters" shocker? Who would have thought
Blasters with falloff are ESSENTIAL. I hate to think that you're SO FAST you stay in optimal or hell, that you don't start shooting until you're sitting on the target.
C'mon now, Gallente don't care about falloff? My ship isn't gold, and I'm not easy to tank, think you trained the wrong race if you don't want falloff.
@ OP, didn't actually read teh thread. But seeing a Bellum (a once respected combatant, now turned Eve-O celeb/whiner) complain about falloff on blasters...
Well, rage... - MY LATEST VIDEO - FRIGANK 7 |
Deckington Forgecaster
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Posted - 2010.05.22 11:16:00 -
[140]
Thumbs up
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Tyrone Bighams
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.22 14:44:00 -
[141]
This proposal gets my absolute unequivocal support. Gabriel is a smart man who had some impressively creative ideas concerning the current disgusting state of gallentean ships and weaponry. He broadened his view and realized that what is wrong with Gallente is not a single problem, but rather a large group of deeply rooted flaws. His work to fix them is some of the most polished forum posting i've ever seen. kudos.
On the topic of the afterburner bonus everyone seems to be allergic to, we all need to keep in mind that even a ship with maxed out skills will still not move faster than a ship fitted with a microwarpdrive. it is simply to give gallente a speed boost while not blowing up their sig radius to the size where they get killed on the way in.
The hyperion needs a buff. the hyperion needs a buff BADLY. The proposed 10% to armor per level is an excellent way to give it survivability in a pvp situation without messing with its slot layout or grid (its currently at 6 lowslots and low grid.
I'm a tiny bit doubtful on the optimal range bonus on the Roden boats. i feel that Gallente should try to steer clear of doing the sniper thing. Gallente have always historically been masters of close range. so i propose that instead of an optimal range bonus, Gallentean sniper boats might want to try a damage boost to rails. make railguns a viable weapons system.
my two cents, if it helps
CCP. Hear my prayer from atop your bone strewn tower! Boost Gallente, for they have become free kills in todays fleet warfare due to poor range, ineffective webs, and terrible speed! |
Dzajic
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.05.22 15:28:00 -
[142]
Idea of Gallente needing a buff is fully suported. However the Devs should at least try to give their vision and suggestion on race balance.
Yeah sure they might be "Gallente are fine", they are also "speedtanks and MWDs are fine", and when cry/whine amount on forums broke thresholds they used 5 ton hammer to "balance" it.
Drones still have AI issues and dumb moments when they bug up. Diemost and Astarte? Eos was nerfed too hard yeas ago and no attempts to fix it. Damps being a bit meh on bonused ships.
Blasters/grid/active armor tank comedy that leads to most recomented tanks for Myrm/Ishtar and even Hype being shield.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.22 15:44:00 -
[143]
So, I read the proposal linked in the OP.
The proposal linked in the OP states that the taranis is so underpowered that it needs a significant tracking boost (wut?), an extra drone, a massive increase in overheated turret DPS, oh, and a falloff bonus as well so that it can apply this DPS all the way across scram range. Merely out-dpsing the other combat inties by 40%+ as it currently does is just *not enough*.
From this I conclude that the author of the proposal linked in the OP is either a lunatic or is simply crying for a set of ridiculous solopwnmobiles.
More seriously, while there are some gallente ships with issues, the blanket bonuses proposed will make those that are already very strong (on the frigate level, this covers the taranis, ishkur, tristan, and incursus) ludicrously OP. Moreover, some of the proposed changes affect shipclasses that are underpowered more or less across the board (EAFs, command ships, non-thrasher/sabre destroyers and interdictors); only fixing the Gallente hulls while leaving ships like the Hyena in their current state would be silly.
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Ryan Starwing
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Posted - 2010.05.23 13:27:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 23/05/2010 13:27:59 All t2 combate frigates except stealth bombers are underpowered right now do to the dramiel it can do both the role of an inti and an af at the same time and be overall more effective.
On a side note gallente needs a buff and hybrids need some love in general.
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.05.23 17:11:00 -
[145]
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.23 19:57:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 22/05/2010 16:00:09 So, I read the proposal linked in the OP.
The proposal linked in the OP states that the taranis is so underpowered that it needs a significant tracking boost (wut?), an extra drone, a massive increase in overheated turret DPS, oh, and a falloff bonus as well so that it can apply this DPS all the way across scram range...
From this I conclude that the author of the proposal linked in the OP is either a lunatic or is simply crying for a set of ridiculous solopwnmobiles.
You obviously didn't read closely enough.
Quote:
(T2) Taranis:
Developer: Duvolle Labs
Duvolle labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capacities. Since its foremost manufacturer of Particle Blasters its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal.
Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% Small Hybrid Turret damage per level
Interceptor Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty and 7.5% Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff Per Interceptor Skill Level
- The Taranis is a thoroughbred blaster-boat, whose role is to destroy enemy support on a one-to-one basis first, tackle larger ships second. With the tracking boost cascade down the Atrons falloff bonus, aiding this role.
And like Dzajic mentioned... it would be nice if a Dev or SOMEONE from CCP would at least either acknowledge or dismiss the idea that there is a problem with Gallente ships (the gunboats in particular). If a problem is acknowledged, people will throw in more thoughts and ideas on how to fix them rather than simply saying "no changes are needed, stop whining." And if the problem is dismissed and stated that it is "working as intended" I'll shut my mouth and start training for something else. _______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.23 20:56:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 23/05/2010 21:07:26
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 22/05/2010 16:00:09 So, I read the proposal linked in the OP.
The proposal linked in the OP states that the taranis is so underpowered that it needs a significant tracking boost (wut?), an extra drone, a massive increase in overheated turret DPS, oh, and a falloff bonus as well so that it can apply this DPS all the way across scram range...
From this I conclude that the author of the proposal linked in the OP is either a lunatic or is simply crying for a set of ridiculous solopwnmobiles.
You obviously didn't read closely enough.
No U.
Originally by: Lunatic OP - All Blasters to receive 50-75% increased tracking, null tracking penalty increased accordingly. Ship tracking bonuses to be removed.
- All Blasters overload bonus increased from 15% to 30 - 50%. Heat damage adjusted to allow for 1.5x to 2x as long overheating.
Originally by: Lunatic OP Drone bandwidth was added as a feature to allow ships to have bigger drone bays without upsetting balance in terms of DPS. Somewhere along the line the devs developed amnesia (dÆoh!). In two centuries the Gallente havenÆt forgotten the reason why they developed drones in the first place and soà
Gallente Battleships/Battlecruisers: +25m3 Gallente Cruisers/Destroyers: +10m3 Gallente Frigates: +5m3
Cascade this down the T2 line-up except where no drone bay currently exists.
The OP wants to remove the taranis' tracking bonus (37.5% at all-V) and simply increase the tracking of all blasters by 50%. That, for the slower among us, would be "a significant tracking boost." The OP wants to increase all blasters' overload damage boost from 15% to 30-50%. That, for the slower among us, would be "a massive increase in overheated turret DPS." The OP wants every gallente ship to have a bigger drone bay; that, for the slower among us, would give the taranis "an extra drone." The OP, having given blasters a bigger tracking buff than the ranis' old bonus ever gave, then wants the ranis to have a falloff bonus, thus giving it "a falloff bonus as well so that it can apply this DPS all the way across scram range."
Tell me, do you routinely support things you haven't bothered to read?
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Jerid Verges
The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.05.23 22:28:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 23/05/2010 22:30:28 Ever since the Web Nerf Gallente has had severe trouble with tracking. Rails suffering especially.
Not to mention pwg is borked and Hyperion slot layout makes no sense compared to Mega (Switch Mega and Hyperion mid/low slots).
EDIT: Additionally. Replace Dual Rails with Dual Blasters. Dual Rails are epic failage.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.24 03:10:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
The OP wants to remove the taranis' tracking bonus (37.5% at all-V) and simply increase the tracking of all blasters by 50%. That, for the slower among us, would be "a significant tracking boost." The OP wants to increase all blasters' overload damage boost from 15% to 30-50%. That, for the slower among us, would be "a massive increase in overheated turret DPS." The OP wants every gallente ship to have a bigger drone bay; that, for the slower among us, would give the taranis "an extra drone." The OP, having given blasters a bigger tracking buff than the ranis' old bonus ever gave, then wants the ranis to have a falloff bonus, thus giving it "a falloff bonus as well so that it can apply this DPS all the way across scram range."
Tell me, do you routinely support things you haven't bothered to read?
Oh, sorry... forgot about all those parts (it's been awhile since this thread got bumped)
But yes, I do read the proposals... even the [obviously] bad ones. The way I see it, there is always room for compromise on certain issues and and no matter how terrible a proposal is, there is usually an idea or SOMETHING that can be salvaged from it.
Likewise, not all of the elements in a "good proposals" will be "good" and so they need to be cherry-picked and examined.
In the case of this proposal here... I do a 50/50. Changing all the Gallente ships as proposed AND boosting blasters wouldn't be good for racial ship balance. However, if was either/or (either boost Gallente ships OR boost blasters) I would support it.
There is also CCP to consider as well. Not every proposal that the CSM brings before CCP will go through... and those that do are almost NEVER applied in their original form.
At least, this is just MY reasoning. I could always be wrong. _______________________
"Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.24 22:16:00 -
[150]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 24/05/2010 22:17:56 Support the part about impeaching Jacques Roden. The word "missile" should not be part of any Federation shipbuilder's vocabulary.
Edit: CCP got it right with the new Comet.
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Rei Kami
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Posted - 2010.06.02 03:32:00 -
[151]
I support this idea wholeheartedly!
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wert668
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Posted - 2010.06.02 05:17:00 -
[152]
hell no
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Julius Perfecto
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Posted - 2010.06.02 08:21:00 -
[153]
agreed
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Morrigu Storm
D'tael Contracts
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:03:00 -
[154]
As a Gallente only spec character I'm in favour of this particularly on the gunnery/blaster aspects of this thread.
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Ilfort
Moira. Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:33:00 -
[155]
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Ryan Starwing
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Posted - 2010.06.03 23:52:00 -
[156]
Gallente need a buff they used to be good but now they suck alot. The reason they are used alot is because people already got their skills maxed out in them or dont know any better, but most gallente drone boats are good (myrm could use 100bandwidth).
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Tetkica2
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Posted - 2010.06.04 00:43:00 -
[157]
CCP pls fix blasters
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VantDre
Gallente Night Aztecs
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:05:00 -
[158]
I have a drake, I had a demios I bought a proteus, which I'm going to sheild tank soon.
I would like other cheap ships to look at besides the drake.
/signed.
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vixeyy
Imperial Trade Federation Honourable Templum of Alcedonia
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:22:00 -
[159]
I hate flying caldari... I want my railguns to actualy be worth the money and effort I put into buying and flying the ship. Real antimatter ammo would out DPS any ammo in eve even nuclear missiles and projectile shells let alone railguns can put tons more power behind a normal iron shell then a powder based gun ever could
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BeforePeace
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:42:00 -
[160]
Well written / researched. Fully supported.
I like the idea of every race having thier own "flavour" so to speak.
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:28:00 -
[161]
why not, seems an improvement over the current gal ships
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Aegis Stormborn
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Posted - 2010.06.04 23:13:00 -
[162]
As a former Gaylente pilot that switched to Amarr due to utter suckiness of Gallente weapons, I support this.
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