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Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:33:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Cromwell Savage on 18/12/2009 13:34:25
Originally by: Bad Messenger
So difference is that another is not a bug it is working as intended but another clearly is.
Apparently not. For if CCP cannot reproduce it themselves and are still asking for in-game footage/pics then it is still clearly under investigation to even determine if it is an exploit or not. Until then...
Not defending it's use, but you guys of all complaining about others manipulating game mechanics is laughable. I've seen the so-called "aggro-bug" once and it caught us by surprise as much as it did the squids... |
Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:07:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Val Erian
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people, as he has heard you both on voice. Funny , I guess you must Account Share then, which is against the EULA.
Second , in plex my comet was there with wt Crusader. HE moved away from me... You will never believe the circumstances ofc .
So thxs Damar for confirming RE: Yuri ..
But, really doesnt matter you always seek reason to do what your were planning to do anyway.
BTW guess your selfless use of alts in minnie space isn't workng out as planned, so welcome back. I'm sure we'll all have a blast.
I will confirm that Val Erian used the NPC bug in a Caldari plex. The timer was bugged, so he warped in after we had "captured" it and was coming after me. I moved away to get him in range of NPCs, then moved back to attack. At this point, Val was the sole target. He then used the bug to escape death at my hands - I had him in structure, but just couldn't take any more missile fire and had to warp out.
Yuri and Damar both know because I mentioned this in a chat channel we all share.
Now, I wouldn't mind someone using this, really, except that it's apparently only wrong when the Caldari do it. When the Froggies use it, it's justified for some reason.
No more after this....But clearly you are clueless....so in a plex when you are attacked, you must stay within a certain radius of npc or you are abusing 'bug' .
So when your crusader is within 3k of me I must stay within range of npc. Your ship was within 3-10 km of mine the whole time. This is Using 'aggro bug"?
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:28:00 -
[123]
Pardon me for interrupting, but does anyone have a bug-report ID related to this "NPC vs. Friendly" bug?
Preferably one that has reproduction steps for CCPs benefit should they decide to peruse my data-gathering thread.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:10:00 -
[124]
Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves. -----
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Yuri Intaki
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Posted - 2009.12.18 16:50:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves.
Fearsome State Dai Dojo tactic also know as Caldari npc shooting it's supposed target...
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Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:51:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
all this proves is just that the minmatar are still by far the best in using loopholes to cap plexes than anyone else.
abusing the standing loophole is very similar to the speedtanking loophole that has been abused by minmatar on large scale since quantum rise. in both cases a quite cheaply fitted t1 frig can take any sized plex pretty much afk unless there is an actual hostile player in the system to kill or chase off the speedtanker.
even if all of the minmatar systems would have been capped at some point, everyone on the amarr side knew that it is absolutly impossible to defend them against the speedtanking minmatar hordes.
i am amazed how you can still point fingers on others while claiming that your loophole is the only legit one.
what all this has clearly proved is that FW is not about fighting anymore, but about who is able to exploit loopholes more efficiently and has more people using those loopholes.
the whole concept of plex capturing is just wrong but this is probably not the place to discuss that.
i still think to freeze occupancy mechanics and reset occupancy until FW 2.0 is ready would be the best immediate fix atm.
sadly CCP still did not respond to any threads concerning this issue.
and i guess now that the minmtar have realized how efficienty they can exploit you are not in a hurry to get it fixed anymore, right ?
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:02:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno Stuff
Yet PERVS abuse of the standing bug, the NPC friendly aggro bug and the timer bug is acceptable? Seems like all's fair in love and war but only when you're winning. -----
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:08:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 18:08:13
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno
all this proves is just that the minmatar are still by far the best....
The guy that is one of the most notorious users of neutral logistics alts in FW, speaks out on something he claims is unfair? Please say it's not true.
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Lebastor
Minmatar Hidden Agenda
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:22:00 -
[129]
If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:35:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 18/12/2009 19:39:24
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
Because of yet another flaw with FW .. the DT-Shuffle.
Amarr have more dedicated plexers available immediately after DT than the Shakorites.
Support this and show CCP that even we passionate few have lost our patience.
Don't be afraid to add your issue if it is not already mentioned, note some are intentionally vague to cover multiple issues.
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kahhhhhnn
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:44:00 -
[131]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: kahhhhhnn Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
^^ Guess who's alt this is.
Please inform all of us?
Who's alt am I?
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:54:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves.
Like hell we have. We weren't even inside the plex when we killed Rocco, so we didn't pull it.
First time I saw it used was by your friend Val, whom I've seen you fly with, right after you told me that I shouldn't fly with Yuri because he pulls it.
Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes. --- |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 20:09:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:05:00 -
[134]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
I'm not complaining. It's just hypocritical of the Feds to call the CalMil exploiters when they do the same. The bug is so easy to cause that it's bound to happen. --- |
Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:23:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
They also forget to mention, that they can also do the same thing. I've seen many Interceptors taking all the aggro for their little plex gangs. Just because they like to gang up with 6 guys to capture a single plex, doesn't mean they "have too".
They just like to complain about it a lot. It's the same way with missions.. 90% of Amarr FW mission running roam around in stealth bombers with vigils/executioners speed tanking all the aggro.
If there is anyone that has a right to complain, it's the Gallente. As they get perma jamed half the time.
btw.. you never hear Amarr crying about how easy Minmatar's high sec is, with Faction navy's and their ultra l33t target painters for EW. Meanwhile Minmatar have to deal with getting neuted non stop in from Amarr's faction navy.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:28:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Vikarion I'm not complaining. It's just hypocritical of the Feds to call the CalMil exploiters when they do the same. The bug is so easy to cause that it's bound to happen.
The only reason I see the Caldari doing it to me is because they're my opponent. I'm sure it happens the other way around too.
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Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:32:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Ralnik
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
They also forget to mention, that they can also do the same thing. I've seen many Interceptors taking all the aggro for their little plex gangs. Just because they like to gang up with 6 guys to capture a single plex, doesn't mean they "have too".
They just like to complain about it a lot. It's the same way with missions.. 90% of Amarr FW mission running roam around in stealth bombers with vigils/executioners speed tanking all the aggro.
If there is anyone that has a right to complain, it's the Gallente. As they get perma jamed half the time.
btw.. you never hear Amarr crying about how easy Minmatar's high sec is, with Faction navy's and their ultra l33t target painters for EW. Meanwhile Minmatar have to deal with getting neuted non stop in from Amarr's faction navy.
the big difference is that you need at least 2 people or 2 accounts to do what minmatar can easily do solo, also if you have to use 2 accounts and one new spawn agresses the one at the time he will have to warp out and get back in
all that increases the amount of effort and time needed to cap a plex a lot compared to the fact that any noob in a vigil can speedtank any amarr plex easily solo
similar situation with missions. while amarr need at least 2 players/accounts to do the missions in a stealth bomber the minmtar can easly speedtank the mission with a single SB while still being able to kill the target easily
and you claim that amarr high sec navy is better than the minmtar one? lol it's probably the one that can be tanked far easier than any other navy
and the reason for holding siseide and lantorn so long has already been given
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:54:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno
the big difference is that you need at least 2 people or 2 accounts to do what minmatar can easily do solo, also if you have to use 2 accounts and one new spawn agresses the one at the time he will have to warp out and get back in
all that increases the amount of effort and time needed to cap a plex a lot compared to the fact that any noob in a vigil can speedtank any amarr plex easily solo
similar situation with missions. while amarr need at least 2 players/accounts to do the missions in a stealth bomber the minmtar can easly speedtank the mission with a single SB while still being able to kill the target easily
and you claim that amarr high sec navy is better than the minmtar one? lol it's probably the one that can be tanked far easier than any other navy
and the reason for holding siseide and lantorn so long has already been given
Well maybe I dunno the tricks of the trade, because I've never been a big plexer, but I've never been able to solo a major or a med just by speed tanking. There are always frigs to deal with and the frigs will still tear you up.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not as easy as you make it out to sound. When I've done majors, it's always been the typical speedy alt takes aggro and burns away while the other sits on the button.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:01:00 -
[139]
With winter upon us, I am worried for all these fingers being pointed .. they are bound freeze and fall off!
The whole thing is broken, accept and move on. There is still combat to be had thank Goddess.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 06:16:00 -
[140]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
It is dig deal for defender if there is enemy fleet camping plex gate, warping off lets enemy to go freely in plex and prevent defender to come back in. And timer stops running and enemy gets more time etc...
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:29:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Bad Messenger It is dig deal for defender if there is enemy fleet camping plex gate, warping off lets enemy to go freely in plex and prevent defender to come back in. And timer stops running and enemy gets more time etc...
Why would you care? According to you, you guys aren't plexing anymore. -----
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:39:00 -
[142]
The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:47:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Vincent Death The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months. -----
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:03:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vincent Death The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months.
I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:20:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:20:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months.
The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back. --- |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:26:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Vikarion The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
PERVS have admitted to using the standings bug, Vikarion! I didn't think you were this blind! -----
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olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:23:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Vikarion
The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
Don't bother replying to a 10 day old troll character. You can finish the history lesson if he has the stomach to show his bitter main in this thread.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:43:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 13:43:07
Originally by: olzi Don't bother replying to a 10 day old troll character. You can finish the history lesson if he has the stomach to show his bitter main in this thread.
Funny you should pick up on a something about me rather than addressing any of the actual points I made - but then again, PERVS have no actual answer to any of them, do you? -----
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:15:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Just keep at it, if you want your systems back. He ran back to Gallente space, because he failed to do what he wanted in Minmatar space. Sure he got a good jump on us, as we weren't expecting it and the rapid amount of systems taken were a blow to Minmatar's at first.
Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy".
Just get your guys out their after DT and always close the defensive plexes first. Toss a noob alt in FW if you have too, and just let him close out the defensive plexes in the systems you hold.
Keep the pressure up on him and he will give up yet again.
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