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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:42:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ralnik ...Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy"...
The "comical claim" you refer to was made pretty much at the same time as they started their little foray, give or take a day .. gives it quite a bit of credibility. Your statement would have made sense if said claim was made as they withdrew.
EM split of some corporations to counter the surge and staunch the bleeding of systems and it worked ..
It was almost certainly done using yet another glaring flaw in the poorly coded NPCs. Not a standings abuse as such that much is true, but just as risk-free, lame and game breaking. The defence of the hinterland actually proved what Amarr have been saying since day one of this whole fiasco .. speed tanking is every bit as powerful as all the other exploits and abuses giving a massive advantage where none is supposed to be - NPC balance is completely out of whack.
Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
Pointing fingers this late in the game is counter productive. Better to agree to disagree and work towards a brighter tomorrow for all parties.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:45:00 -
[152]
I am perfectly aware that they're griefers, Ralnik. Unfortunately, downtime is, from a historical perspective, when the Gallente militia is weakest, and therefore no matter how many alts we made, the ratio of actual players available to use them is lower, which puts us at a disadvantage. The unbalanced DT plexing issue has been known about since Empyrean Age was in beta, and there are regular requests from players to fix it - and who do we find desperately opposing any change to the current mechanic? That's right, Nephilim "Neutral Repair Ships" Xeno and Bad "We're Ruining FW And Constantly Bragging About It FOR THE GOOD OF EVE!" Messenger. Show me someone who claims to be surprised by this and I will show you the world's worst liar. -----
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:53:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
You could have the manpower if each of you man up and buy 3 afk plexing alts.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:33:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida
Originally by: Ralnik ...Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy"...
The "comical claim" you refer to was made pretty much at the same time as they started their little foray, give or take a day .. gives it quite a bit of credibility. Your statement would have made sense if said claim was made as they withdrew.
EM split of some corporations to counter the surge and staunch the bleeding of systems and it worked ..
It was almost certainly done using yet another glaring flaw in the poorly coded NPCs. Not a standings abuse as such that much is true, but just as risk-free, lame and game breaking. The defence of the hinterland actually proved what Amarr have been saying since day one of this whole fiasco .. speed tanking is every bit as powerful as all the other exploits and abuses giving a massive advantage where none is supposed to be - NPC balance is completely out of whack.
Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
Pointing fingers this late in the game is counter productive. Better to agree to disagree and work towards a brighter tomorrow for all parties.
We could go on with the tit for tat all day.. Maybe Minmatar NPC's in plexes are a bit harder than Amarr's. Yet Amarr typically had the advantage with their plexing gangs due to the DT respawn mechanics.
Amarr also have it much easier in high sec with easy access to our trade hubs and laughable EW from our faction Navy's. Meanwhile Minmatar have to make many high sec jumps to hit the busy Amarr systems and can't run active tanks due to getting neuted.
Each side has its advantages and disadvantages in regards to NPCs. The deal is, it was fairly well balanced till your Caldri buddies started sticking their fingers in it. You guys supportd their exploiting by shooting the bunkers to make the captures final and bragged all over IS about it.
You helped open up a can of worms, that will likely hurt your Militia far more than the small temporary short sighted gains you achieved. We asked you many times to stop supporting them, but instead you guys insisted on RPing around your fake victory and essentially ****ed off the Minmatar Militia and it's friends.
Now we will see where it goes.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:35:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
I've helped with many of those. It's being done by those of us dedicated enough to stay up late and get up just after DT, every day, rescan systems for new plexes every hour, and run, run, run plexes.
Gallente are plexing, yes, but every Caldari plexer is working three times as hard. And we have a strategy, yes, but it's entirely legal. As I said, I've been at most of the ones in placid. --- |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:41:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:43:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
PERVS have admitted to using the standings bug, Vikarion! I didn't think you were this blind!
They used the standings bug in Amarr. It wasn't used by Caldari in the initial conquest of Gal space. It was used by the Gals/Minnies against us. Turnabout is fair play, or so they say. --- |
Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:48:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
I'm working with anyone who will plex with me. No one I have plexed with has intentionally used any of the bugs. Until I see otherwise, I'll continue to fly with them. Guilty until proven innocent isn't my thing. --- |
Cosmic Raider
Solo Plex
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:54:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54 some funny words and then... every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Well, it could be supernatural haxing, or it could just be that Caldari know how to plex and are willing to work hard at it. Of course, no one has ever been willing to believe that the Caldari put this much effort into plexing, despite the hard evidence to the contrary, because, after all, plexing is boring, plexing isn't really pvp, Caldari are fail pve fit/cloaking/ exploiting/running noobs, Caldari NPC's are mean to us, etc, etc, etc,.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 16:40:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Cosmic Raider
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54 some funny words and then... every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Well, it could be supernatural haxing, or it could just be that Caldari know how to plex and are willing to work hard at it. Of course, no one has ever been willing to believe that the Caldari put this much effort into plexing, despite the hard evidence to the contrary, because, after all, plexing is boring, plexing isn't really pvp, Caldari are fail pve fit/cloaking/ exploiting/running noobs, Caldari NPC's are mean to us, etc, etc, etc,.
I wish our NPCs neuted. --- |
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 16:51:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Vikarion I wish our NPCs neuted.
State Shukuro Gassin
Look it up. Shows how little you know. -----
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:17:00 -
[162]
Do we really need to point at each other how THEY can only win because THEY abuse game mechanics? It's getting silly. All sides are tired of the plex mechanic. "Doing it right" discourages combat, not encourages it, which is just horrible design.
I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente. I would prefer if we could not go the same way between the Amarr and Minmatar. The gloating is just as ridiculous as the finger pointing.
There are very good threads on how to improve FW around. Please try to be constructive. The chest beating serves no one and just makes you all look silly.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:24:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente.
The entire reason for this can be placed at the feet of people like PERVS who twist the spirit of the game, win by unfair means, gloat over it, and then have the balls to say that it was in the best interests of the game. I still have respect for a few Caldari corporations - coincidentally, the ones that don't associate with PERVS. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:34:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Vikarion on 19/12/2009 17:37:04
Originally by: Andreus LeHane State Shukuro Gassin
Look it up. Shows how little you know.
*Shrug* I don't attack NPCs on my side, so I wouldn't know.
I'm not sure why you've elected to view me as a target of your little crusade, but I think you need to chill out and calm down a bit. Personally, I'm just playing the game and having fun, and I haven't seen anyone cheating. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I haven't seen it, and I'm not going to assume it until I do.
I've flown with Damar, I've never seen him use anything untoward in the Caldari/Gallente theater. We're just having fun, trying to flip systems. We have some tactics that work very well, but they aren't cheating. Some bugs, like the NPC one, are impossible to avoid in combat, but that's life.
I think you need to remember that this is ultimately a collection of pixels being displayed from electronic data. --- |
Actumarius
Caldari Nemissaries of Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:42:00 -
[165]
Have minimum ship sizes for plexes as well as maxes. Make it so you have to kill all rats before you cna turn the plex. Make the capture points somewhere near the warp in points so its not criminally easy to run from a fight, or make the NPCs scram.
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Tosi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:21:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Tosi on 19/12/2009 18:21:20
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
somebody non-finnish working with pervs? since when? ;P
edit: typoo ---- -Bad Messenger doesn't actually write on forums, the words assemble themselves out of fear.
Mahooky Dowripple > I vote tosi for breakfast
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Cosmic Raider
Solo Plex
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:26:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente.
The entire reason for this can be placed at the feet of people like PERVS who twist the spirit of the game, win by unfair means, gloat over it, and then have the balls to say that it was in the best interests of the game. I still have respect for a few Caldari corporations - coincidentally, the ones that don't associate with PERVS.
I know several of whom I would consider to be elite Gals and respect them very much. You know who you are Val, Loren, and Chatgris. All my interactions with Gals has been intense and professional. I have much respect for all Gal capabilities and tactics, even if they are French and their women don't shave.
Other than that, the criticism of the PERVS fundamentally misunderstands them. I will help. To be a PERV means you must do things that: 1. Require skill 2. Be innovative 3. Contribute to mission success 4. Be outrageous! 5. Have fun in the game
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 08:56:00 -
[168]
So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:36:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
Seriously: grow up.
Lick your wounds and try posting more than 30 seconds after a ship loss. You don't need to like it. We don't need to like it. But, get real, speed tanking is no exploit.
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Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:49:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
But thats just my opinion on what seems to be the case right now.
Ps. Double standards? -Tell me, how are they working for you? - "Man talking to a god is religious. Man claiming that god talks to him is insane." -Anonymous |
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:51:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Dohl Khrensen Seriously: grow up.
Lick your wounds and try posting more than 30 seconds after a ship loss. You don't need to like it. We don't need to like it. But, get real, speed tanking is no exploit.
Which is why I chose this thread to vent in seeing as it screams that the Caldari were using exploits when their "method" is not one either.
CCP are so damn slow to admit the game breaking flaws that they make a snail look like The Flash. Since we can not rely on them to improve the game at a reasonable pace I think my question is quite apt and infinitely valid.
Fact is that what you are able to do, abusing the crappy plex and the Amarr NPCs flawed design, showcases the very definition of an exploit. MWD's were originally removed from missions because speed tanking.kiting NPCs were not what CCP had intended ..
But I'll take your reply as evidence that the Minmatar are perfectly happy to abuse and exploit the system as long as it is not done against them .. the uproar you managed to create when Damar and Co. came along suddenly sounds like a rather distant thunder .. so much for change.
PS: It was more like 10 minutes after loss, so HAH!
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:04:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:05:27
Originally by: Chell Charon The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
Huh? You are referring toe the initial captures that were done before the VP adjustment were made? Yea, shame on us for having to do 4 times the plexing than you did to amend CCP horrid mistake .. we are such low-lives We actually did stop after Lantorn/Siseide in case you were wondering .. personnel limits kind of decided that one for us.
Originally by: Chell Charon It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
The Caldari showed the Minmatar that exploiting and abusing the system is OK as long as CCP remains docile, doesn't mean its right, just like a thief is not technically at fault unless caught. The "crowing" was for the first two system I think, rest were just announcements. Didn't read more than the first few and never posted myself, so can't really comment.
I don't do double standards. I have been advocating a revamp of FW since last summer and have reported all bugs discovered .. But since I don't have access to the abuses you use I can only describe them and not give accurate reproduction steps, so CCP generally disregard them. I presume Minmatar won't be reporting the abuses since it is the golden goose, so congratulations on your "victories".
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Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:16:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:05:27
Originally by: Chell Charon The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
Huh? You are referring toe the initial captures that were done before the VP adjustment were made? Yea, shame on us for having to do 4 times the plexing than you did to amend CCP horrid mistake .. we are such low-lives We actually did stop after Lantorn/Siseide in case you were wondering .. personnel limits kind of decided that one for us.
Originally by: Chell Charon It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
The Caldari showed the Minmatar that exploiting and abusing the system is OK as long as CCP remains docile, doesn't mean its right, just like a thief is not technically at fault unless caught. The "crowing" was for the first two system I think, rest were just announcements. Didn't read more than the first few and never posted myself, so can't really comment.
I don't do double standards. I have been advocating a revamp of FW since last summer and have reported all bugs discovered .. But since I don't have access to the abuses you use I can only describe them and not give accurate reproduction steps, so CCP generally disregard them. I presume Minmatar won't be reporting the abuses since it is the golden goose, so congratulations on your "victories".
Tell you what -and I am speaking only for myself here- You get the speed tank issue into a suppportable thread (Or just throw a link for one) and I'll support CCP coming up with something to even out the matter.
I'll even advocate that TLF stop taking plexes with speed untill such time as CCP solves it, once personnel limits so decide. -Sound fair?
- "Man talking to a god is religious. Man claiming that god talks to him is insane." -Anonymous |
Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:29:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:37:00
Originally by: Chell Charon Tell you what -and I am speaking only for myself here- You get the speed tank issue into a suppportable thread (Or just throw a link for one) and I'll support CCP coming up with something to even out the matter.
I'll even advocate that TLF stop taking plexes with speed untill such time as CCP solves it, once personnel limits so decide. -Sound fair?
Pretty much all the FW related topics in Assembly Hall have "Require destruction of NPC", "Balance NPCs" as an item so take you pick. The ones I am pushing are [Proposal] FIX FACTION WARFARE and [Proposal] Moratorium on VP gain.
But like I said, there are plenty to go around so not inclined to spam yet another topic for something that is part of a larger issue ie. the complex balance.
I have a collection thread going, trying to gather an as complete as possible list of flaws/ideas related to FW.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.20 11:39:00 -
[175]
This "OMG YOU EXPLOITER!" thing is not getting any better in this thread.
Just pointing out two factually wrong statements above:
1) "Speed tanking Amarr offensive complexes is a completely risk-free afk matter" No, it's not. Having lost two Rifters to bad spawn timing, having several close calls due to neuts, etc., I can assure you it's not. Doesn't mean I particularly like the current plexing mechanics, but exaggerating problems beyond proportion helps no one.
2) "Minmatar complexes can not be soloed" Again, factually wrong. Seen it done multiple times now. It's more difficult, but not impossible.
Sorry for the interruption. Feel free to go back to the scheduled finger pointing now.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.20 15:17:00 -
[176]
It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:05:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Bad Messenger It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
Still have nothing to say about your broken promise? -----
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:26:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Bad Messenger It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
Still have nothing to say about your broken promise?
Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
But on the other hand, those in the gallente that said "Oh were taking systems WE ARE AWESOME", after crying for a year about hard NPC's and me pointing out "Its only cause PERVS don't care at the moment" and the gallente replied "Meh, if PERVS were here we'd still be taking systems" now PERVS are back, hows the system capture going? LOL
Really FW is good for one thing. Some pew pew and that has dried up. Were struggling to get 2000 kills this month, which is very disappointing, The NORV caldari are beat, only MCB are any threat and PERVS are doing their plexes. We are back to camping Nourv to get kills which is not what we wanted to do.
Buy hay ho, tis a game. FW stuff means nothing apart from the 5000+ war targets, but I think there might be another way to get some kills...
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Eternal Hatred
Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:40:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Tosi Edited by: Tosi on 19/12/2009 18:21:20
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
somebody non-finnish working with pervs? since when? ;P
edit: typoo
Well, you DO have one brittish and one american member so yes .. there is non-finnish players too.
Beside I know you guys cheat, I have installed those programs Bad Messenger coded for us to use. Don't try to deny it. _________________
It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :( |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:55:00 -
[180]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
If you can tell me what we exactly lose or what was not working the way we thought?
We lost couple systems as expected, main reason was that gallente did not want to come to fight in plexes where was caldari npc, now we get fight in plexes again, every one win.
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