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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
748
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Posted - 2012.07.23 19:37:00 -
[301] - Quote
Hey everyone.
After taking some feedback on the changes and testing on sisi, we're going to give the Executioner back it's 3 powergrid, bumping it back up to 45.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming. We're going to keep watching and tweaking these ships. |
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Loki Vice
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2012.07.23 19:48:00 -
[302] - Quote
why does the slasher now have more scan resolution than the stiletto? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
617
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Posted - 2012.07.23 21:20:00 -
[303] - Quote
Fozzie, I take it you're on the ship balancing team now? Seems like there's been a fair bit of shuffling, who else is in there now? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
756
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:11:00 -
[304] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Fozzie, I take it you're on the ship balancing team now? Seems like there's been a fair bit of shuffling, who else is in there now?
Ytterbium is still doing ship balancing, and Tallest is back from his paternity leave now so I'm the third member of the balancing team. Lots of work ahead of us so CCP decided to do what any self respecting capsuleer would do and blob the problem. |
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Kraschyn Thek'athor
Marquie-X Corp Ewoks
2
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:32:00 -
[305] - Quote
Nearly a bit too good buffing for the T1 Tacklers.
Tormentor, Idea 1: The Speed-Logistic Role Bonus for Small Remote Armor Repper Cap use - Range Bonus for Small Remote Armor Repper - Armor Resistance
Argument: - Capitals have Carriers/Supers as Logisitics - Subcaps have T2 and incoming T1 Logistic Cruisers. - Fast Ships have nothing that doesn't slow them down.
Tormentor, Idea 2: The Smartbomber - Range Boni for Smartbombs - Damage Boni
(and yes, you will see them in Alliance Tournament afterwards)
Tormentor, Idea 3: The Courier We have currently no specialised Courier Ship.
Tech 2 Tormentor, the Pod Taxi: Everyone knows the problem in big battles. Either you suicide, or let yourself shoot, or it will be a long way home. (or your Alliance puts an Titan into a Forcefield) How about a Pod Taxi? You can Dock your Pod on the Tech2 Tormentor, up to.... lets say 10x Pods and it is the first Frig with Jump Drive. If docking is too complicated, it can "Jump" up to 10x Pods from your Alliance in 1000m surrounding. Or it become a mobile Jumpbridge that goes into "siege" during usage. ^^
A Jump Fuel Bay, no Cargohold, no Turret/Missile Slots.
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Tex Bloodhunter
Konstrukteure der Zukunft The Initiative.
6
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:11:00 -
[306] - Quote
How about balancing Interceptors at the same time? Looking at the T1 hulls without considering the T2 variants can hardly be done without creating inconsistencies. For example a Condor with 4 med slots has super strong range control, allowing it to kill quite a few T1 and T2 frigs with ease. Although advanced range control is a sensible thing to have on a dedicated tackler it seems odd that the T1 hull performs better at its task than its T2 variants. There have been quite a few other inconsistencies reported in this thread.
If you consider combat frigs and assault ships (Rifter vs. Jaguar/Wolf) you can see a strong increase in performance. The T1 hulls are not even nearly as good as their T2 variants. You don't have to think twice if T1 or T2 is the better choice here. With the new attack frig chances there actually isn't that much of a difference between the ships anymore. Basically Interceptors have twice the EHP (which assault ships have even more of) and the sig bonus (which assault ships get as well). Is that what makes the Interceptor a dedicated and highly specialized ship class? There should be a more distinct difference. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
181
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:28:00 -
[307] - Quote
Tex Bloodhunter wrote:How about balancing Interceptors at the same time? Looking at the T1 hulls without considering the T2 variants can hardly be done without creating inconsistencies. For example a Condor with 4 med slots has super strong range control, allowing it to kill quite a few T1 and T2 frigs with ease. Although advanced range control is a sensible thing to have on a dedicated tackler it seems odd that the T1 hull performs better at its task than its T2 variants. There have been quite a few other inconsistencies reported in this thread.
If you consider combat frigs and assault ships (Rifter vs. Jaguar/Wolf) you can see a strong increase in performance. The T1 hulls are not even nearly as good as their T2 variants. You don't have to think twice if T1 or T2 is the better choice here. With the new attack frig chances there actually isn't that much of a difference between the ships anymore. Basically Interceptors have twice the EHP (which assault ships have even more of) and the sig bonus (which assault ships get as well). Is that what makes the Interceptor a dedicated and highly specialized ship class? There should be a more distinct difference.
I agree that the T2 variants should be looked at simultaneously with the T1 variants. Interceptors are all about two things: speed and light damage (they are great harassers.) There are two variants of interceptors for each race. One variant should specialize in speed but be worse at everything else for it (while still doing more damage than other ships that don't specialize in damage,) and the other should specialize in damage but be worse at everything else for it (while still having more speed than other ships that don't specialize in speed.) The T1 variant should do both jobs, but neither as well as either specialist. IE more speed than the high damage interceptor, and more damage than the high speed interceptor, but not exceeding either at their actual specialties.
The propulsion jamming bonus is just silly. As long as they can use a warp scrambler/disruptor, does the bonus really need to be there? They already have the advantages of speed and damage. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
374
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:28:00 -
[308] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Fozzie, I take it you're on the ship balancing team now? Seems like there's been a fair bit of shuffling, who else is in there now? Ytterbium is still doing ship balancing, and Tallest is back from his paternity leave now so I'm the third member of the balancing team. Lots of work ahead of us so CCP decided to do what any self respecting capsuleer would do and blob the problem.
Sounds like a smart move, 2-3 heads and sets of hands are better than one... :) If you need help with anything I would love to be a 4th head lol, and I will even do it for free Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
374
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:37:00 -
[309] - Quote
Tex Bloodhunter wrote:How about balancing Interceptors at the same time? Looking at the T1 hulls without considering the T2 variants can hardly be done without creating inconsistencies. For example a Condor with 4 med slots has super strong range control, allowing it to kill quite a few T1 and T2 frigs with ease. Although advanced range control is a sensible thing to have on a dedicated tackler it seems odd that the T1 hull performs better at its task than its T2 variants. There have been quite a few other inconsistencies reported in this thread.
If you consider combat frigs and assault ships (Rifter vs. Jaguar/Wolf) you can see a strong increase in performance. The T1 hulls are not even nearly as good as their T2 variants. You don't have to think twice if T1 or T2 is the better choice here. With the new attack frig chances there actually isn't that much of a difference between the ships anymore. Basically Interceptors have twice the EHP (which assault ships have even more of) and the sig bonus (which assault ships get as well). Is that what makes the Interceptor a dedicated and highly specialized ship class? There should be a more distinct difference.
Your forgetting one specially little bonus that makes the t2 interceptor better than this t1 version still... signature reduction for interceptors is mega awesome and perfect as it is.
I personly feel that interceptors er perfectly fine right now as they are, at maximum they only need some small tweaking, but nothing huge
only thing I can think of is to make interceptors accelerate faster in warp to max warp speed, and come to complete stop faster when comming out of warp (perhaps a 15-20% bonus to acceleration/deacceleration of warp speed per level) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Galphii
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
55
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:51:00 -
[310] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Fozzie, I take it you're on the ship balancing team now? Seems like there's been a fair bit of shuffling, who else is in there now? Tallest is back from his paternity leave now . I hope this means that we'll see some meaningful hybrid fixes soon |
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Buffalo Toker
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.24 05:47:00 -
[311] - Quote
1. Finally introduce Blaze/Lux crystals 2. Harvest tears
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Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians Iberians.
29
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Posted - 2012.07.24 09:54:00 -
[312] - Quote
This is a bit hilarious, now the condor is like the crow, but 95% cheaper.
I wonder what will they do to ceptors after this T1 buff, since the only advantage of ceptors over T1 frigs will be the signature reduction, which is a good thing, but not enough. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
242
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Posted - 2012.07.24 10:00:00 -
[313] - Quote
I never thought I'd say this, but I can totally see myself flying the Condor for cheap tackle lulz with this change. Love it.
Might even make a passable kiting frigate. Hmm... |
Denuo Secus
56
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Posted - 2012.07.24 10:12:00 -
[314] - Quote
In the past Caldari ships were slow but still quite agile. Seeing the new balanced frigs this scheme seems to change. I'm a bit concerned this would remove some cool tactical abilities from Caldari ships they have at the moment.
They can outmaneuver even faster opponents just by better agility. Also using tactical warps works nice. Kiting works since they react faster on speed changes - even if a Caldari ship wouldn't win a race on a straight line. Beeing underestimated as "slow faction" helps too.
But beeing slow AND sluggish makes them a lot less appealing for small gang or solo PvP |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
79
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Posted - 2012.07.24 10:53:00 -
[315] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:I am fighting with frigates on a daily bases and I found that:
Merlin and Incursus are WAY overpowered at the moment.
I have been in situations where a dual medium ancillary shield merlin can tank over 330 dps (without bonuses) and do more then 150 dps. Even a buffer tanked merlin can have almost 8k tank (with web-scram-ab) with over 210 dps overheated wich is insane. Same goes for dual rep Incursus wich can tank 150 dps capstable without a problem. As it stands now those two frigates can easily beat any Faction frigate and even T2 Assault ships. As for the Rifter that is completely useless now with it's pathetic 130 dps and 4.5k tank compared to the Merlin and Incursus mentioned above.
I have not trained all my skills to see my Faction Frig or T2 Assaultship be pwned by a T1 frigate.
This is actually nonsense, at least when it comes to incursus (never flown an asb merlin). To tank a properly fit/flown assault frig/faction frig the incursus needs to be fit in such a way that; a) its incredibly slow (ab+ 3 amour rig nerf) and so can be kited effectively or escaped from by pretty much any frig not flown by an idiot: b) reliant on cap boosters, probably navy 400s if it is to have any neut protection meaning when it is getting kited it is dead no matter what; c) it has completely anemic dps unless the enemy just sits on top of it. Finally unless the reps are managed perfectly the burst damage from a gank frig like enyo will get through regardless.
Basically an incursus that has any chance of killing a non idiot enyo or daredevil (if that is even possible) will likely be kited and killed by a rifter that knows what it is doing. If it is fit to tank a kite (i.e. cap stable) it will not have enough tank to withstand a gank frig. This is basically how eve is meant to be. A dramiel or wolf is pretty much able to kite and gank an incursus at the same time.
The extent to which the incursus and merlin are op compared to ther t1 frig will be reduced by the continuing buffs of said frigs (even a dual asb merlin is very kitable). The rifter is a little sad at the moment however, even more so when these new tackler buffs are introduced.
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
813
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:21:00 -
[316] - Quote
Hey boys and girls,
I'm still looking at ship balancing as well, but I just came back from vacation so had to pass the torch to CCP Fozzie regarding frigate balancing while I was away. As he mentioned, with the addition of CCP Tallest, we are now 3 Devs assigned to ship balancing, which should speed up things quite a bit .
As CCP Fozzie grabbed the tech 1 frigate overhaul while I was away and is doing a great job at it, he'll finish that ship class rebalancing so we don't get even more confused here - please be nice to him . We all three are a few desks apart and constantly talking to each other regarding our respective changes so what we post is always reviewed by all parties anyway.
In the meantime, I will start looking at the destroyer class as mentioned in the last ship balancing blog and will post changes in this forum section when they are ready for external review. |
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Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
7
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:41:00 -
[317] - Quote
so what class is ccp tallest working on? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
787
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Posted - 2012.07.24 13:14:00 -
[318] - Quote
Tallest is currently doing the mining barge rebalance for Inferno 1.2 |
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Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
7
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Posted - 2012.07.24 13:16:00 -
[319] - Quote
and then cruisers? :) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
787
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Posted - 2012.07.24 14:06:00 -
[320] - Quote
Another update, we're going to add one powergrid to the Condor and remove one from the Slasher.
Condor will have 35 pwg and the Slasher 34 pwg.
Should give the Condor a bit more breathing room and help distance the Slasher role slightly more from the Rifter role. |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
475
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:06:00 -
[321] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tallest is currently doing the mining barge rebalance for Inferno 1.2
if you would be so nice as to ask him if after that will he finish/interate on the weapon balance he was doing before he went on pat leave in Jan?
There were several things he was looking into enhancing for hybrid ammo i was really keen on...
Quote:We are here and we are reading your feedback.
We will be iterating on our balancing efforts based on the feedback in this and other threads and will release some more balancing in early 2012.
Quote:As you may have noticed, I have been afk for the last week or so. I am back at work now and will try to address the concerns that have been expressed while I was away.
As Soundwave and Affinity have explained for me in my absence, the cutoff date for changes that make it into the Crucible expansion has already passed (and had already passed when I went away).
As it turned out, I only had time to do one extra pass on the changes after they hit SISI. These changes (to the changes) were based on your feedback from this thread. There were many other suggestions here that I would love to do, but didn't have enough time to do them properly for this release. In the future, I will make sure that I have more time to make changes based on your feedback. The feedback that you was posted after the cutoff is far from worthless. I've read every single post and written down notes for future reference.
What we have now is a start. After Crucible come out, I will definitely be doing further balancing. Here are some of the things relating to hybrid ships that we will be looking further into in the coming weeks/months:
* Further tweaking of individual ships. * Tech II ammo needs a better look at, especially Null-Scorch-Barrage. * Active tanking vs passive tanking. And by extension, armor tanking vs shield tanking. * Small and Medium Webifier drones. * Give tech I hybrid ammo variations for each range, like projectile ammo. Maybe the same for lasers. * Something to help blaster ships get into range. There are several good suggestions on how to do this; Webifier range bonus, MWD speed bonus, change the armor rig penalty, increase base speed or even a new type of module. We might do some of them, all of them or something completely different.
p.s. I have also updated the OP with the final list of changes. PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
353
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:07:00 -
[322] - Quote
Changes are live on Sisi |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Excuses.
8
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:12:00 -
[323] - Quote
Is this tormentor thing happening? I have a thing for lasers, but the punisher is ****. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
7
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:27:00 -
[324] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135064&p=3 How about drones/mods they need some work i think this forum thread explains most issues? |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
71
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:31:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:In the meantime, I will start looking at the destroyer class as mentioned in the last ship balancing blog and will post changes in this forum section when they are ready for external review. totally forgot the ORE frigate from this blog, will this one be ready with the barges changes or later ? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
788
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:34:00 -
[326] - Quote
Tanaka Aiko wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:In the meantime, I will start looking at the destroyer class as mentioned in the last ship balancing blog and will post changes in this forum section when they are ready for external review. totally forgot the ORE frigate from this blog, will this one be ready with the barges changes or later ?
It will be coming in a later release. |
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Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
114
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Posted - 2012.07.24 15:49:00 -
[327] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Tex Bloodhunter wrote:How about balancing Interceptors at the same time? Looking at the T1 hulls without considering the T2 variants can hardly be done without creating inconsistencies. For example a Condor with 4 med slots has super strong range control, allowing it to kill quite a few T1 and T2 frigs with ease. Although advanced range control is a sensible thing to have on a dedicated tackler it seems odd that the T1 hull performs better at its task than its T2 variants. There have been quite a few other inconsistencies reported in this thread.
If you consider combat frigs and assault ships (Rifter vs. Jaguar/Wolf) you can see a strong increase in performance. The T1 hulls are not even nearly as good as their T2 variants. You don't have to think twice if T1 or T2 is the better choice here. With the new attack frig chances there actually isn't that much of a difference between the ships anymore. Basically Interceptors have twice the EHP (which assault ships have even more of) and the sig bonus (which assault ships get as well). Is that what makes the Interceptor a dedicated and highly specialized ship class? There should be a more distinct difference. Your forgetting one specially little bonus that makes the t2 interceptor better than this t1 version still... signature reduction for interceptors is mega awesome and perfect as it is. I personly feel that interceptors er perfectly fine right now as they are, at maximum they only need some small tweaking, but nothing huge only thing I can think of is to make interceptors accelerate faster in warp to max warp speed, and come to complete stop faster when comming out of warp (perhaps a 15-20% bonus to acceleration/deacceleration of warp speed per level)
Agreed. The interceptors still get a significant EHP/resist and sig bonus, that makes them more adept at their specialized role. Some of the combat interceptors could probably use a little tweaking, but that's more in response to recent changes to destroyers, frigs, and AFs.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Hoogalish
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.07.25 03:39:00 -
[328] - Quote
If your gonna give the condor the least ammount of armor and hull then it should have the smallest sig, the fastest align time and the highest top speed. . . . rockets and missiles still dont do any damage how about like 10% damage, giving fall off to a ship is gonna greatly increases its worthyness over the others. and what good is tracking speed for minmatar guns?
The speeds and hulls should all be equal. two should be short range point/ brawler - i dub the amarr/gallente ships for this as they play this roll very well, armor tank low, mids for prop jamming. Then you need a long range point, i dub the caldari/minmatar for this its lack of lows means it need to fit for max speed, and what ever if any meds left over for some extra buffer. Couldnt hurt to increase the range of rockets so they can hit to like 30km and give this a bonus to the point out to somthing like that 30km with lvl 5 frig. so like 1.2km range bonus per level to warp disrupters for say caldari and minmatar, and make the gallente and amar increased range on scrams, i mean really 10km isnt cutting it for anyone. so boost theirs the same so they get a 15km scram.
Then fix intercepters so they are more useful for how frail they are. maybe apply these same concepts but increased resits and speed across the board. maybe ad in a bonus to web range as well. intercepters shouldnt be less useful than a daredevil with a faction web and long point.
The whole point of the intercepter is to be fast and tackle, and it can do that okay but in any kind of larger fleet they dont got much gusto. The intercpeters with the prop jaming range bonus are okay but the ones without need severe help and reworking. maybe bild a short and long for each race. |
Ischtar Grey
6
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Posted - 2012.07.25 07:14:00 -
[329] - Quote
just a stupid idea but, we have so much frig and cruiser hulls why not making one of each hull type per race dedicated for pve?
lets say gallente frig hull "X" has a 5% dmg bonus on serpentis npc's or something like that.
flame on |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
127
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Posted - 2012.07.25 11:11:00 -
[330] - Quote
i really hope the T1 frigs and dessies get done soon, im REALLY looking foward to being able to use an Omen again and it not taking several low slots of fitting mods just to fit some decent lasers with near no tank/buffer |
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