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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1261
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Posted - 2012.06.18 19:13:00 -
[91] - Quote
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote: Lets here some more great ideas on how to murder new EVE players. Good job guys.
New EVE players are the ones that suffer now, because they are the ones who tend to hop in swiftly stomped newbie player-owned corps while the PVE alts of veterans grind away in NPC corp safety. New players are punished for wanting to socialize in an MMO to the benefit of vets under the current system. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2012.06.18 19:13:00 -
[92] - Quote
Donte wrote:
I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps.
You can.
It's an informal process: See someone from an offending corp, shoot them.
The best part is that it's completely stealthed, they don't even get notice!
However I would advise caution, most of not all of these corps have standing arraingements with Concord and things will go badly. Luckily the rest of your corp won't suffer for your foolishness. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2012.06.18 19:23:00 -
[93] - Quote
This is Eve Online, a player driven video game. It is not CCP driven. If you want to shoot them, then you are the only one stopping you. Accept the consequences or stop complaining. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Man, you just have to wonder. Aaaa, NOOOO!
I'm not saying it's an interesting idea. I'm just saying in my opinion. naaa.
I would support getting rid of all high sec, except for beginner system. and converting most of high sec to low sec. Then blast away. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
25
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Posted - 2012.06.18 19:36:00 -
[95] - Quote
Donte wrote:FireT wrote:Donte wrote:EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe". So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's? Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it. I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps. Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Thoughts? My thoughts are that you don't actually have intelligent thoughts. Why do idiots keep demanding the right, yes an actual right, to harass people whenever they wish? This is a sandbox game, meaning you can do whatever you wish and so can we. If you wish to fight, go fight. Lots of fights out there. But real fights is not what you are after. You want to be a bully in the sandbox on the internet out of all places. What a laughable tough guy. Go join the military or a fight club instead of bullying some random casual players. What a sad life. And your 'idea' proves that you are not smart enough to be considered stupid. if you cant attack the argument, attack the person making it! i like your strategy!
Actually I think it is laughable that everyone needs to fight. A lovely and bloody idea only true bullies would embrace. It is like asking to have no police in real life. Guess what happens. People will stop being in your community where there is no police. Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears. So yes, a stupid idea is stupid. And a terrible business model.
Though if I am wrong, I am happy to let CCP do this and see what happens. |
McOboe
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
Seems like the OP just wants to be able to kill everyone without getting CONCORD'd. Easy solution for that- go to low-sec/null-sec/WH. Otherwise, just remove the security system entirely and make the entire game null-sec. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1261
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:47:00 -
[97] - Quote
FireT wrote:Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears. There was no mass exodus during Hulkageddon Infinity, nor during the PI fix, or Inferno, etc. The only time mass exoduses have ever happened was when CCP began catering to carebears by implementing exclusively risk-free commodity/isk faucets, like Incursion, Incarna and Tyrannis. This is because the enjoyment derived by most players in EVE is from overcoming adversity, usually in the form of other players.
Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. If NPC Corps were removed, or made risky in some manner, players would adapt; just like how the use of Covetors has exploded in highsec in the face of Hulk-pilot genocide - not by mass unsubs.
In short, your threat is an empty one, and we should go full on ahead in the move to ban NPC corps in the pursuit of a better, more balanced game. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:54:00 -
[98] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:FireT wrote:Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears. There was no mass exodus during Hulkageddon Infinity, nor during the PI fix, or Inferno, etc. The only time mass exoduses have ever happened was when CCP began catering to carebears by implementing exclusively risk-free commodity/isk faucets, like Incursion, Incarna and Tyrannis. This is because the enjoyment derived by most players in EVE is from overcoming adversity, usually in the form of other players. Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. If NPC Corps were removed, or made risky in some manner, players would adapt; just like how the use of Covetors has exploded in highsec in the face of Hulk-pilot genocide - not by mass unsubs. In short, your threat is an empty one, and we should go full on ahead in the move to ban NPC corps in the pursuit of a better, more balanced game.
Please enlighten me, and I am going to assume others too, about these 'exclusive advantages'. As far as I know you are just as useful and useless as the average carebear. Why? BECAUSE YOU BOTH PAY THE SAME SUBSCRIPTION. Unless of course hardcore interwebzpiwats pay double. In which case, yes you are right and CCP should serve your needs.
Till then, if it is trying to attract the largest possible player base it needs NPC corps for casuals. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:57:00 -
[99] - Quote
Donte wrote: you misunderstand EVE.
It is by nature a PVP game... Everything you do when interacting with the universe is PVP.
Mining a rock... PVP there are a limited amount of resources - if you mine it, someone else cant... Placing a sell order... PVP. you sell your widget, someone else didnt... Placing a buy order... PVP. you buy something for cheaper than another guy - that guy now has to spend more money... Mission running... What do you do with the proceeds of that activity? the moduals, the salvage, the ammo- you use them to PVP!
I keep coming across this argument on here, and it still isn't making sense to me. You can't define the word "versus" like that without taking intent into consideration. People don't necessarily mine a rock in order to deny that resource to another person, even if that's one of the effects. It's like, if I get on the bus and there's no seats left, it's isn't because everyone else is against me. They're just doing their own thing. To think otherwise, you'd have to be some kind of paranoid nutcase. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
McOboe wrote:Seems like the OP just wants to be able to kill everyone without getting CONCORD'd. Easy solution for that- go to low-sec/null-sec/WH.
Yeah, they would be able to avoid Concord that way, but if NPC corps would remain part of factions they would have a lot of other stuff to worry about. Current FW system would be of course applied to that war. |
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Romar Agent
Ishukone Regional Headquarters
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:01:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:... Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. ... I'm basically NPCing in my own two-alts-corp. I would rather be in that or in an NPC corps than in a larger player corp, because other corplings would have a negative impact on my playing style.
I guess I'm not the only one. |
Sister Rhode
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
Combine NPC corps with faction warfare. NPC corps should just be the militia and vice versa. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:05:00 -
[103] - Quote
You guys have it wrong. NPC corps should be in a constant war-dec towards their opposing faction's NPC corps. For example, all Caldari-based NPC corps are at war with Gallente-based NPC corps.
*Leave the Noobcorps alone though (They usually end with "academy" or something)*
The catch is, The NPC faction police would open fire on their respective enemies. So all Caldari-based NPC corp members would be "red flashy" in Gallente space, making griefing extremely hard using these mechanics. PVP would be possible and would happen in a more "guerilla-style" type of encounter or on "neutral grounds" - in this case, amarr or minmatar space. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
306
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:09:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nah, NPC corps are a necessity for new players and casual players. There are a lot of players who abuse NPC corps for risk free logistics and such. I'd support more taxes and more things taxable (like market orders, refining, LP) on characters that choose to stay in NPC corps for a long time. I know people will just make one man corps but it's the best we can do unless you remake a lot of core game mechanics. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
209
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:09:00 -
[105] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:You guys have it wrong. NPC corps should be in a constant war-dec towards their opposing faction's NPC corps. For example, all Caldari-based NPC corps are at war with Gallente-based NPC corps.
*Leave the Noobcorps alone though (They usually end with "academy" or something)*
The catch is, The NPC faction police would open fire on their respective enemies. So all Caldari-based NPC corp members would be "red flashy" in Gallente space, making griefing extremely hard using these mechanics. PVP would be possible and would happen in a more "guerilla-style" type of encounter or on "neutral grounds" - in this case, amarr or minmatar space. You would probably need to change the default Gallente corp from the Scope to something else then. Most war correspondents I've seen would make terrible frontline combatants. |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
tl;dr You're welcome to fight station guns. 'Safe' NPC corps give casuals a place to play. Your boredom is not their fault. They do give things up for it.
Assuming you leave the noob corps out of it, and only implement such a change for the NPC corp that folks get dumped in after they leave a player corp (because everyone 'has' to be in a corp).
So you wardec, say, Sebiestor Tribe, the one I was in. You now have hundreds or thousands of targets. All of these 'safe' people you couldn't freely shoot before. Have you forgotten that those NPC corps are part of the infrastructure of the empires? Do you think the NPC's would just let you sit on the undock and blow away their tribesmen because you paid a few million for a war-dec? No. As soon as you declared war on them, every Sebiestor run station would be given orders to fire upon you if you came within range. So, I mean sure, make that change. Those 'safe' people would still have station guns working for them. They'd be a little less safe out in the systems at large, but they'd still have safe spots to go to. All those industrialists you're worried are ruining the economy sitting in their CQ's would still be able to do business. All this gains you is the ability to hunt down missioners who aren't PvP fit, which I'm sure gives you a 'he should have been fit better even though PvE and PvP fits are completely at odds, so really it's his fault' boner.
And this is all leaving aside the fact that not everyone who plays the game has the time or inclination to fly in a world where they are always under threat of war-dec (which they would be) or suicide gank (which they are), and can't play the game in any kind of leisure time manner because you want more targets. If your corp is that boring, go fight someone who wants to fight. Someone who chose the PvP life and lives in an area that encourages it. Change the status quo in your area. Go play the game you have full right and access to play, and let everyone else do the same.
Lastly, concerning 'they give up nothing to be in an NPC corp': bull. They give up a huge chunk of the game. Sov, serious POS's, all of the empire building mechanics and capital ship construction. That's a lot of content they'll never see. But where else can a casual go that requires no more of his time than he is willing to spend? Maybe he lucks out and finds a 'whatever man' lo or null corp (I don't know any). The only way those organizations get to the things I just mentioned is by concerted effort. Going to war requires him to be there for battles. Et cetera. All things he may not have time for, or be able to get his schedule to coincide with. So NPC corps is the way to go. If he strikes out on his own and just makes a personal corp, he'll never get the resources together to field a station, defend it when he's away, refuel it, etc. The systems are built so that he needs back up.
And that's all fine, that it's built that way. But that means it doesn't work for everyone. And catering a part of the game to casual players expands your base, and guarantees that if the time ever comes that they want to try those other aspects, they've already got the groundwork for it, and the cash to try it. They may like it, they may not, but they have the option. Like the option to be in an un-deccable corp. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1261
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:17:00 -
[107] - Quote
FireT wrote:Please enlighten me, and I am going to assume others too, about these 'exclusive advantages'. As far as I know you are just as useful and useless as the average carebear. Why? BECAUSE YOU BOTH PAY THE SAME SUBSCRIPTION. Unless of course hardcore interwebzpiwats pay double. In which case, yes you are right and CCP should serve your needs.
Till then, if it is trying to attract the largest possible player base it needs NPC corps for casuals. True NPC corp 'casual players' would be the least effected of anyone if NPC corps were removed and replaced with a deccable individual system. Why? Because highsec wardec corps would go after the hardcore players (as you put it) who were using NPC corps to put mining/freighter/logistics alts in. Because they're the ones more likely to be online and have more loot then the 'casual player' who only plays 1-2 hours a week, right?
Do you think a system that favors the 60M sp PVE specialist alt at the expense of the of the newbie character in his first player-run corporation is really one that could be called casual and newbie friendly?
|
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:19:00 -
[108] - Quote
Since we are on absurd demands: why not get rid of high sec all together? That way new players can get their face shot in from day one and enjoy people in massive ships harassing them. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1261
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
FireT wrote:Since we are on absurd demands: why not get rid of high sec all together? That way new players can get their face shot in from day one and enjoy people in massive ships harassing them. They already can get their faces shot in from day one, just park a thrasher on the gate from a rookie system. NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO, which makes it absurd that 'think of the newbies' is such a common response to the proposal of removing NPC corps. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
209
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:...NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO... How exactly are they punished? |
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Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:35:00 -
[111] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:FireT wrote:Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears. There was no mass exodus during Hulkageddon Infinity, nor during the PI fix, or Inferno, etc. The only time mass exoduses have ever happened was when CCP began catering to carebears by implementing exclusively risk-free commodity/isk faucets, like Incursion, Incarna and Tyrannis. This is because the enjoyment derived by most players in EVE is from overcoming adversity, usually in the form of other players. Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. If NPC Corps were removed, or made risky in some manner, players would adapt; just like how the use of Covetors has exploded in highsec in the face of Hulk-pilot genocide - not by mass unsubs. In short, your threat is an empty one, and we should go full on ahead in the move to ban NPC corps in the pursuit of a better, more balanced game.
Um, links to numbers please? I've played since EA and the only mass exodus that I have been privy to was the Incarna Exodus, of which my original character was a part of. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Implying Implications
cuties4life
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:37:00 -
[112] - Quote
I think it wouldn't be bad if the starter corp was immune to wars but characters in that corp were kicked out after 30 days into a different npc corp that can be involved in wars. Minmatar V3 gallery: http://minus.com/mOqXRikn5 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1256
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:38:00 -
[113] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:Nah, NPC corps are a necessity for new players and casual players. There are a lot of players who abuse NPC corps for risk free logistics and such. I'd support more taxes and more things taxable (like market orders, refining, LP) on characters that choose to stay in NPC corps for a long time. I know people will just make one man corps but it's the best we can do unless you remake a lot of core game mechanics. This.
Introduce incremental corp taxes and penalties for characters over a certain age operating in an NPC corp. Not sure what the penalties would be though.
If NPC corp abuse and corp hopping/war dec evasion were fixed we could probably finally see some of those suicide ganking nerfs miners keep screaming for. As it stands though, suicide ganks are the only viable method for attacking most players when war evasion is so trivial and without penalty.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
150
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
Donte wrote:EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe". So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's? Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it. I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps. Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Thoughts? NPC corps =/= Noob corps. they're different entities. NPC corps can only be entered after a player leaves a player corporation.
I smell yet another high sec wardec'er without the bawls to go to low or null. Why is it these types are the loudest whiners on GD? |
ashley Eoner
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:41:00 -
[115] - Quote
If NPC corps are so amazingly great then why aren't you in one?
This subject seems to boil down to the OP's fear that someone somewhere might be using the NPC corp to avoid something..
Either that or the OP wants to get his grief on with the newbies..
My main has 2.5m sp but I already learned that it's never a good idea to attract attention. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1262
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:...NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO... How exactly are they punished? By moving much of the high-yield targets outside the purvue of a wardec, it's the newbies who don't know how to evade wardecs that eat the brunt of highsec PVP. By making all players equally wardecable, the pressure on ganking newbies is decreased, while the pressure on ganking cargo-laden freighters and pimpfit ratters once under NPC corp protection is increased. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
315
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:51:00 -
[117] - Quote
Where did the nullsec game go?
While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1256
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:54:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:Where did the nullsec game go?
While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced. The problem is a lot of those high sec players avoiding wars are null sec players.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:57:00 -
[119] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:By moving much of the high-yield targets outside the purvue of a wardec, it's the newbies who don't know how to evade wardecs that eat the brunt of highsec PVP. By making all players equally wardecable, the pressure on ganking newbies is decreased, while the pressure on ganking cargo-laden freighters and pimpfit ratters once under NPC corp protection is increased. An interesting point. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
316
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 21:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:Where did the nullsec game go?
While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced. The problem is a lot of those high sec players avoiding wars are null sec players.
You mean that these players don't actually enjoy PvP constantly????
Surely you are joking. |
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