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Lambda Meissa
14th Legionnaires
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:38:00 -
[1]
This is not a rant thread, or an emorage quit thread. I just have a few questions.
I recently spent a lot of time getting my skills up for a hulk. I now have Exhumers at 5, can use tech 2 strip miners with tech 2 crystals, and as of today have refining efficiency at 5. Whoop whoop, go me. I thought that from today i'd be a fairly rich man.
I spent literally 12 hours mining yesterday, and I stripped 3 whole belts of Veld, Pyrox and Scordite. After I was done i totalled up what It would refine into, and did all the math... 135m ISK. Wtf? I could make double or triple this with level 4's or ratting in 0.0. What gives?
Is empire Mining so bad? Did I just waste all those skill points? I mean I mined solid, with an orca present with full bonus's and a mindlink. We did'nt even stop for food, we ordered in lol. What gives?
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Darcon Kylote
Terminal Impact
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Posted - 2009.12.13 12:12:00 -
[2]
It's the human factor. Mining can be done semi-afk in empire space, while you do something else on your main, or watch a movie, do homework, make phone calls, etc. It doesn't need much attention, and is fairly safe aside from the oft-exaggerated suicide ganker risk.
It's not just risk which drives the price of any activity, it's also the effort the player has to put in. This is why ice is worth a third what ore is worth, ice is three times (or more) easier to mine in terms of player effort. -- Terminal Impact is recruiting PVPers for fun ops in lowsec/0.0/wormhole space. Visit our website or join ingame channel "the tict pub". |
Tyranus vonCarstein
Eternal Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:01:00 -
[3]
Also take into account what you mine, if you had not mined any pyroxeres at all and stuck with veld/scord your income could of been around 12-15% higher, depending on how much time you actually spent on pyro.
Make sure you always check the going rates of ore based on the ISK/m3 values, of which pyro was/is/will always be the worst high sec ore. Scordite is doing very well now due to high pyerite prices, plagioclase is also pretty high, omber seems stuck in the pyro range of prices, and kernite seems to always come out at the top or #2.
Second hint to mine high sec ores... Stick with just the 10% or 5% ores in a slower system if you're mining solo, there will generally always be enough to keep you busy although you may have to move belts a bit more. If you are mining in a fleet then its probably easier to strip the belts of the vaulable ores.
I would also double-check that math, or get a hauler alt.
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Planetary Genocide
Gallente CNK Manufacturing Co
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lambda Meissa This is not a rant thread, or an emorage quit thread. I just have a few questions.
I recently spent a lot of time getting my skills up for a hulk. I now have Exhumers at 5, can use tech 2 strip miners with tech 2 crystals, and as of today have refining efficiency at 5. Whoop whoop, go me. I thought that from today i'd be a fairly rich man.
I spent literally 12 hours mining yesterday, and I stripped 3 whole belts of Veld, Pyrox and Scordite. After I was done i totalled up what It would refine into, and did all the math... 135m ISK. Wtf? I could make double or triple this with level 4's or ratting in 0.0. What gives?
Is empire Mining so bad? Did I just waste all those skill points? I mean I mined solid, with an orca present with full bonus's and a mindlink. We did'nt even stop for food, we ordered in lol. What gives?
Hell, I wish I could make 11mil+ per hour... though since I won't have an orca, I'd settle for maybe a bit less. even 10mil a day would be nice.
But, uh, yeah, empire mining is apparently nowhere near as profitable as if you got into a nullsec corp and mined ABC ______________
RAWRRR |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:13:00 -
[5]
It's not worth it. Leave it alone and do something else
Win a Aeon mothership for 10M ISK |
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Tyranus vonCarstein
Eternal Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:13:00 -
[6]
Yeah I guess... Forgot some links to help ya out...
Gunfleet works IGB I believe Grismar Old site, but extremely accurate, also IGB Another table albeit a more complicated/configurable one The almightly roid grid Memorize it. BSAC's Ore Prices Be careful, sometimes prices are not as accurate as you'd like, but it requires NO input from user.
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Tyranus vonCarstein
Eternal Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chribba It's not worth it. Leave it alone and do something else
It's worth it if you find one of those love cans Chribba leaves lying about while mining. But I believe they are merely stories told by old men to young miners to ensure they keep their strip miners going.
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Lambda Meissa
14th Legionnaires
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Posted - 2009.12.13 14:10:00 -
[8]
ok sooo..
Chribba could you please leave me a love can lol...
I'm not sure I even want to know what those are... sounds so very wrong.
Thanks for the info so far though, i've been looking through some of those links. My mistake was deffinately not concentrating on purely Veld I think.
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Loaby
Amarr Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.12.13 14:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lambda Meissa My mistake was deffinately not concentrating on massive scordite I think.
fyp
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Liandan
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Posted - 2009.12.15 04:43:00 -
[10]
If you are stripping belts then you are not using your hulk to its fullest potential. Trick is time efficiency. My hulk with boosting can strip approximately 16k m3 per cycle on just 1 modulated strip miner II. You don't collect the ore until your laser cycle completes or you shut off the laser. Now if I put a laser on a rock that survey scanner says contains only 8k ore but I let the laser run full cycle then I have just wasted 1/2 of a cycle. If you put a laser on a rock then immediately untarget said rock, the laser will run full cycle then shut off automatically because the rock is no longer targeted. You can then put the laser on the next rock you have targeted. So if I target a rock that survey scanner says contains 18k ore and let the laser run for only 1 cycle and I leave the remaining 2k ore I have pulled ore at the maximum yield for the laser per cycle. Multiply this process for 3 strip miners for multiple cycles and you have 2 to 5 hours of mining at maximum yield with no wasted time. Your profits will be so much higher if you can discipline yourself to leave the small amounts of ore lying around forgotten while you focus on collecting full cycles only.
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Minotan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.15 06:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liandan If you are stripping belts then you are not using your hulk to its fullest potential. Trick is time efficiency. My hulk with boosting can strip approximately 16k m3 per cycle on just 1 modulated strip miner II. You don't collect the ore until your laser cycle completes or you shut off the laser. Now if I put a laser on a rock that survey scanner says contains only 8k ore but I let the laser run full cycle then I have just wasted 1/2 of a cycle. If you put a laser on a rock then immediately untarget said rock, the laser will run full cycle then shut off automatically because the rock is no longer targeted. You can then put the laser on the next rock you have targeted. So if I target a rock that survey scanner says contains 18k ore and let the laser run for only 1 cycle and I leave the remaining 2k ore I have pulled ore at the maximum yield for the laser per cycle. Multiply this process for 3 strip miners for multiple cycles and you have 2 to 5 hours of mining at maximum yield with no wasted time. Your profits will be so much higher if you can discipline yourself to leave the small amounts of ore lying around forgotten while you focus on collecting full cycles only.
QFT.
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Qulbeg Khan
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Posted - 2009.12.15 06:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Liandan My hulk with boosting can strip approximately 16k m3 per cycle on just 1 modulated strip miner II.
Try 1.6k m3 .. 16,000 is a full hulk in one cycle on one strip miner? I don't think so.
You are mixing m3 with units of Veldspar. Rest of what you say is spot on however.
Also - find quiet area of space and jet can mine. Contrary to what people say, Jet canning is the way to go. In a busy area you will be flipped constantly, but out away from the crowd, you will lose maybe 1 can a week. That is peanuts compared to the extra ore you gain from more efficient mining.
Watch your factory to. Not all refineries are 50% base... some are 30%. Make sure you are getting the full 100% refine.
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SirDynty
Gallente Boiians
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Posted - 2009.12.15 10:51:00 -
[13]
i dont like the "maded 150 mil..wtf? i can make 4time more doing missions." There is 20 peoples on this forums,with 70+mil SP,doing calculations how much will they make with faction fited marauder +salvaging alt on other account,selling their LP items for best value around (such as selling top implants/items in deep 0.0,or producing ships/modules from LP BPCs by their maxed industrialist friend also with 70 +mil SP and all researched components BPO etc) and everyone blindly follows them,because it is writen on forums,so it is true. Then you can see everyone doing LOL at <insert any other activity than running missions> because "you can make 40mil/h doing missions" while 90% of peopes are making more like 15mil/hour,doing the same missions.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:33:00 -
[14]
Quote: Is empire Mining so bad?
I wouldn't exactly call it "bad" for something that takes barely 3-4 months to master SP-wise, and scales up rather nicely on many accounts with a single human controller (dual-boxing L4 missions or running 8 miners - I'd say the miners need less actual attention from you).
Originally by: Lambda Meissa Wtf? I could make double or triple this with level 4's or ratting in 0.0.
Yes, you COULD make triple of that running L4s in highsec. But not with the same SP total nor the same ISK investment into ship and gear.
If you only want to run a single account and stay in highsec, then the best overall deal would be a combo between mission-runner (to spend the time online), trader (in-between missions) and manufacturer (overnight or longer).
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SirDynty i dont like the "maded 150 mil..wtf? i can make 4time more doing missions." There is 20 peoples on this forums,with 70+mil SP,doing calculations how much will they make with faction fited marauder +salvaging alt on other account,selling their LP items for best value around (such as selling top implants/items in deep 0.0,or producing ships/modules from LP BPCs by their maxed industrialist friend also with 70 +mil SP and all researched components BPO etc) and everyone blindly follows them,because it is writen on forums,so it is true. Then you can see everyone doing LOL at <insert any other activity than running missions> because "you can make 40mil/h doing missions" while 90% of peopes are making more like 15mil/hour,doing the same missions.
How very sad and very, very true People want to make the maximum money and are frustrated when it doesn't work out. Don't get me wrong - nothing bad about it, but don't compare yourself with others, who (claim to) have more income per hour/day/month.
Just like Planetary Genocide said, he would be lucky if he could make 10 mil per hour.
I 'work' just as much, that it will buy me a PLEX each month and cover my expenses. The rest of my gametime is pure fun and experiments ... and if I wouldn't collect high level BPOs as a hobby, I would even work less
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lutz Major Just like Planetary Genocide said, he would be lucky if he could make 10 mil per hour.
Let's be serious - blitzing L3s in a HML-II/3xBCS-II/Afterburner Drake (cherry-pick loot with tractor beam, no salvage) with a 5-7 mil SP pilot earns you next to 10 mil/hour on average after you consider everything that can be cashed in.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
FroschForscher
Caldari The German Star-Fighters United European Star-Force
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lutz Major Just like Planetary Genocide said, he would be lucky if he could make 10 mil per hour.
Let's be serious - blitzing L3s in a HML-II/3xBCS-II/Afterburner Drake (cherry-pick loot with tractor beam, no salvage) with a 5-7 mil SP pilot earns you next to 10 mil/hour on average after you consider everything that can be cashed in.
which means that you only need to play 1 hour/day to buy a plex at the end of a month
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Unity Love
Caldari Dissonance Corp Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.15 12:06:00 -
[18]
Join a 0.0 corp (NOT IN PROVIDENCE!!!!)----> Mine better ores with bonuses and possibly haulers ----> Selling minerals straight to corp---->profit
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.12.15 12:20:00 -
[19]
yes, mining is not worth the time. If you're doing it for ISK, its a wasted time, flying complexes in this time will flush more ISK into your wallet.
Even after mining bistot and mercoxit for days I've got ore in my hangar for about 500m, in these days I could have earned billions doing other things but mining.
Just do it for fun or do it on an alt besides other things.
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De'Vadder
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.15 13:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Just do it for fun
mining for fun? i lolled And why is there still nothing that sets content apart from signature? Is that intentional or technically imposible? |
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Ozone71
Caldari Kamikaze Fleet Command
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Posted - 2009.12.15 15:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: De'Vadder
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Just do it for fun
mining for fun? i lolled
Well it could be worse.. you could mission for fun...
The only use mission running has is to boost Standings to get rid of refining tax.
"Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV) |
Discova
Domini Umbrus
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Posted - 2009.12.15 16:35:00 -
[22]
I love to mine! I know that is taboo to say on these forums but I really enjoy it. I make plenty of isk to keep my mining gear top notch and always have back up ships. I have enough to tinker with PLEXÆs, PvP and mission running although I do none of those as much as I mine.
I live in 0.0 and I have four accounts that I use to mine with. Three of the four are full t2 miners and the fouth account has my hauler/orca/freighter pilot.
Much as people have described above me, I am constantly scanning the roids to determine quantity left. I know how much of each roid all my miners are pulling in per full rotation, half a rotation, and quarter rotation. I can watch nine t2 crystal mining lasers, the quantity left in the rock, and still stop and start my lasers to get maximum efficiency. All that while piloting my hauler back and forth with ore.
For me, mining is absolutely worth it.
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Bootown
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Posted - 2009.12.15 20:59:00 -
[23]
Mining is a passion that some people just love
I myself have 5 accounts 4 T2 Perfect Hulk, and one Orca (about 10% from perfect). I can pull good numbers from .5+ space. You can't afk when your running 12 strips lol
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor
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Posted - 2009.12.15 23:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Darcon Kylote It's the human factor. Mining can be done semi-afk in empire space, while you do something else on your main, or watch a movie, do homework, make phone calls, etc. It doesn't need much attention, and is fairly safe aside from the oft-exaggerated suicide ganker risk.
It's not just risk which drives the price of any activity, it's also the effort the player has to put in. This is why ice is worth a third what ore is worth, ice is three times (or more) easier to mine in terms of player effort.
Here's your answer :)
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Liandan
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Posted - 2009.12.16 00:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Qulbeg Khan
Originally by: Liandan My hulk with boosting can strip approximately 16k m3 per cycle on just 1 modulated strip miner II.
Try 1.6k m3 .. 16,000 is a full hulk in one cycle on one strip miner? I don't think so.
You are mixing m3 with units of Veldspar. Rest of what you say is spot on however.
Also - find quiet area of space and jet can mine. Contrary to what people say, Jet canning is the way to go. In a busy area you will be flipped constantly, but out away from the crowd, you will lose maybe 1 can a week. That is peanuts compared to the extra ore you gain from more efficient mining.
Watch your factory to. Not all refineries are 50% base... some are 30%. Make sure you are getting the full 100% refine.
yea sorry i was referring to veldspar with my calculations and i do mine using jet cans.
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