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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.12.17 03:00:00 -
[1]
I never see any of these ships on TQ.
Seems people either choose to fly something truly disposable, like a T1 frigate or cruiser, or they choose to fly something that's either stealthy or capable of handling itself in 1 on 1 combat.
EWAR ships don't seem to do any of these things.
Anyone found a use for them?
I've got some free time in the skill queue and I'm wondering if it's worth training them up.
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Gun Hog
Caldari Ardent Industrial Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 03:05:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Gun Hog on 17/12/2009 03:05:14 Ewar ships are typically found tagging along with other ships (especially bomber gangs). You would be crazy to PvP solo in one, but with some friends, you will become VERY annoying to your enemies.
It is only worth your time if you often PvP with a fleet. _______________________________________________
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.12.17 05:19:00 -
[3]
I've seen Blackbirds used as good throw-away cruisers, but as Gun said, they're generally good for small gangs/fleets.
I'm not too knowledgeable on Amarr ships, but I've seen Pilgrims/Curses used solo on occasion.
All that being said, they're definitively worth training up. Gallente/Caldari recons can make an absolute mess of anyone they target. The Huginn has a ridiculous webifier range. Electrontic Attack Ships gave roaming frigate gangs some well deserved EW support (and to that extent, the Kitsune will throw out the strongest jamming strength (all else being equal) of any ship short of getting Recon Ships to V.)
EWAR won't let you gank things, but they'll keep things from even being able to shoot at you. If you don't mind someone else carrying your guns for you, you'll find a lot of targets much easier to fight with an ewar ship in gang.
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2009.12.17 05:26:00 -
[4]
Which kind of EWAR is most effective at shutting down opponents?
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.12.17 05:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Recons
Thanks, but I'm not speaking of the Recon Ships. I'm talking about the Electronic Attack Ships. - Keres - Kitsune - Sentinel - Hyena
These ships I never see. The Pilgrim and Curse are all over the place.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.17 06:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/12/2009 06:13:41
I love my Scorpion. My corp mates love that I love it too.
"You have really disgustingly long range in that."
"They're not shooting at us at all!"
It's cheap, and I consider it disposable, but I've not been locked yet.
Ships like the Kitsune really need to be numerous to compare.
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ApollyN
Point Blank. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 06:20:00 -
[7]
as previously mentioned, they are excellent in gangs but solo, very hard to use.
Kitsune is probably the pick of the bunch, it delivers solid jamming capability at a good range, Hyenas are just horribly flimsy and webs just arent as good as they used to be.
The other two are always useful, but again, dont last long and cant stop a lock being placed upon them (along with the inevitable flight of warrior IIs.
Combined, they can be superbly powerful, but recons tend to fit the bill better, along with their cloaks and covert cynos.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.12.17 06:28:00 -
[8]
hyena is a good little takler, i use it sometimes but admitedly not often, sentiel is by far the best in my experience only frig i have trouble fighting are ishkurs
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.17 07:50:00 -
[9]
They somewhat lack a good role, agreed.
The only use I would see for them, is in speed roaming gangs only consisting of fast frigates. Though you don't see such gangs on TQ, as they usually lacks firepower.
The whole gang would have to be fast enough to easily outrun pursuing cruiser gangs and basically never stop in target region.
But afaik CCP still haven't changed the mechanic of accelerating in warp, so every cruiser will almost be as fast as a frigate on very short warps. Align time left aside ofc.
So they COULD be really fun, but people prefer tech2 cruiser gangs for roaming, because they can take quite a punch and deal some damage aswell.
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AgentFruitfly
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Posted - 2009.12.17 08:23:00 -
[10]
I've flown kitsune a few times in small gangs - i'm shocked i haven't managed to get it blowed up yet.
My assessment: LOADS OF FUN.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 09:53:00 -
[11]
I fly the sentinel quite a bit and I love the ship. It is perfectly able to go solo and it can be a great fleet support ship however you will need good drone and cap skills to get it working right.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:07:00 -
[12]
I tried them for awhile but they are so fragile that they pop if someone sneezes in your general direction. I spent more time trying not to die than actually being useful.
What do others think of them? The idea was great, smaller, cheaper, much more mobile mini recons..
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Sumelar
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:18:00 -
[13]
I think if they made them totally dedicated to e-war they'd see much more use.
Something like cruiser level e-war strength/capabilities but extremely limited approaching non-existent weapon systems and defenses. So basically powerful e-war and a speed tank.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:38:00 -
[14]
Sentinels are great interceptor killers. MSE fit has a nice enough buffer for a frig.
Keres can solo certain ships very well minmatar frigs particularly.
They aren't used much and that's a good thing as people don't know what to expect. Unfortunately you DO need to be able to pick your engagements otherwise you end up losing too many.
In a gang its usually better to use the cruiser equivalent.
They are fun ships if you want to try something different. A fleet of them could be very annoying to engage if you organise it decently.
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Ethan Blacknova
Gallente The Partisan Brigade Republic Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 10:51:00 -
[15]
The Sentinel is INCREDIBLY VICIOUS! I flew this on singularity over and over, with a T2 fit. Even against the Assault Frigates out there, who had the massive afterburner boost, I could get up against an Ishkur or Jaguar.ect, Suck it dry, then nibble it to death with light drones.
Once they get in range of their neuts, they are helpless to shoot and tank. Int he case of the Ishkur, your little drones can even do a fantastic job at killing his drones.
Fantastic Little ship.
I am currently trainging this character to fly all four races T2 frigs. ESPECIALLY E-Attack frigates!
Sentinel comes SUPER RECCOMENDED.
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Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 12:49:00 -
[16]
kitsune is lolannoying thing.
its good if you want to go roam fast and dont want to scare enemy with rook or falcon.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.12.17 13:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 17/12/2009 13:28:18 Problem of these ships is that they are weak, they dont have anywhere ther esists of an af or the small sig of a ceptor, and as good force multiplicator they are theyre usually primaried first.
The kitsune has a place in a frig only gang, the sentinel is the only one being viable outside as well imo, especially in frig gangs as neuts help to break tanks and 4 armor maintenance bots for after the fight ;)
Id use this setup, the medium shield extender is an absolute must but also makes fitting an cap booster unpractical.
[Sentinel, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Nosferatu II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Ancillary Current Router I
Warrior II x4 Acolyte II x4 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
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Gen Kumon
Caldari Tedan Tippedai
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Posted - 2009.12.17 13:42:00 -
[18]
An old corp of mine used to use them in our frig-only wolfpacks. Combined with a couple Interceptors and Assault Frigates, you end up with a very fast moving, but still deadly gang. Not something you'd take against a BS gang or anything, but great for hunting for small groups of wartargets or low-sec mission runners/miners/solo pirates. Might have some use in 0.0 for harassing ratters.
But yeah, basically...they get used some, mostly by groups that specialize in small ship, small group combat.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.12.17 13:54:00 -
[19]
The EAS ships could use a revisit. They were very popular before the nano nerf. Afterwards they became very easy to kill. The introduction of small rigs made them at least useable.
My kitsune setup for example gets a lock range of 105km and can get it's ECM optimal to 100km. It locks fast, moves fast, and can permarun everything for a fight w/o any problems.
The sentinel is another ship I have alot of respect for. Both the Kitsune and Sentinel - hell, all four of the EAS ships, could use 10m cut off of their signature radius. They would be fine at that point in time.
The Hyena and Keres have other problems. The hyena - I've tried to speed tank it. Fail. I've tried to add a buffer shield. Fail. The only setup that hasn't resulted in a very fast death has been one that uses a 400mm plate. You need alot of skills trained up to use the hyena. For example - you need to come in w/ your webs overheated to 26km range until your orbit stabilizes. It's just a hard ship to fly.
The keres can tackle out to 36km. That's only a tad better then the tackle interceptors. And sensor dampners need help too. If you cut the signature radius on the keres and hyena they too would be more survivable. In addition - increase the web range and the tackle range to match their recon relatives. That would make these ships very appealing.
I like the idea of EAS ships. You can get four or 5 for the cost of one Recon. You can also cross train a race's E-War w/o the time commitment of cruisers, race specific weapons, stealth bombers, ect. Just some of my thoughts.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2009.12.17 14:03:00 -
[20]
Mmm. I dunno. I got a couple in the hangar but it never really seems more useful than bringing another inties DPS so I rarely do.
The few times I have brought them out they haven't seemed all that useful.
I might try that 400mm fit for hyena though.
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TimMc
Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 14:04:00 -
[21]
From what I've seen, the Kitsune and Sentinal are around a bit. People argue that a BB can be just as good as a kitsune though.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2009.12.17 16:28:00 -
[22]
Been having good luck with a Speed tanked Hyena (missile fit, med extender)
No real damage to speak of and you have to have someone point for you, but it works well in small frig gangs. fly it like a missile crow, but with 18k dual webs.
And there is always the speed tanked racial spec missile Kitsune...that will pop if you miss a jam
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.12.17 16:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sumelar I think if they made them totally dedicated to e-war they'd see much more use.
Something like cruiser level e-war strength/capabilities but extremely limited approaching non-existent weapon systems and defenses. So basically powerful e-war and a speed tank.
I actually like this idea. Cruiser-level E-War capabilities and really minimal damage / tank. Maybe sig radius benefits.
I've flown the Hyena on Sisi without much success. It's good at evading other ships but if that's all it does, what's the point? |
Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:00:00 -
[24]
Blackbirds do everythign Kitsune does, but better.
Kitsune needs a niche - either better jamming, lower cost, a real speed tank - something.
Can anyone posit a scenario where a Kitsune would make more sense than a Blackbird? I really can't think of one, unless you're just one of those "we only fly frigs" types.
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Blackbirds do everythign Kitsune does, but better.
Kitsune needs a niche - either better jamming, lower cost, a real speed tank - something.
Can anyone posit a scenario where a Kitsune would make more sense than a Blackbird? I really can't think of one, unless you're just one of those "we only fly frigs" types.
The kitsune is faster, and does speed tank compaired to a BB... Locks faster, even with a cloak fitted... Pretty much that... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Andrea Skye
Caldari The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:25:00 -
[26]
I think the keres is the best tackling frig in the game.. fast, cant be targetted, good scan res and great point range (especially overloaded). Ive been using in sniper gangs and it pretty much hold down a single target for aslongas ur cap charges last (which is quite long).
Kitsune is nice, everyone loves eccm. And kitsune is alot more agile than a blackbird, which is helpful when ur primaruy 99% of the time.
Sentinal is also very good can fight nearly all kinds of frigates and can severely cripple bigger ships with tracking disruptors.
Hyena is probably the worst of the bunch, no dps and the web range isnt all that great. But it does have its used like when paired with a keres.
AEFs seem to work much better when u have several of them in a gang. Imagine your ship being jammed, damped, nueted, tracking disrupted, webbed and pointed and not being able to do a thing about it.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist Blackbirds do everythign Kitsune does, but better.
Kitsune needs a niche - either better jamming, lower cost, a real speed tank - something.
Can anyone posit a scenario where a Kitsune would make more sense than a Blackbird? I really can't think of one, unless you're just one of those "we only fly frigs" types.
The Kitsune has a higher jam strength then the blackbird. It's scan resolution is four times as high, and twice as high as the falcon or rook. It goes twice as fast and aligns faster then both. It's sensor strength is higher then a blackbird's so it's harder to jam. It has an optimal bonus that the falcon and rook don't - it's stronger then them between 80 and 100km range.
You can get five kitsune's for the cost of a falcon or rook. It's 30 million price tag is more then the BB's 9 million - but all of the above make it worthy of consideration. If you want a specific niche fit two caldari racial jammers and get the drop on other ECM boats in the battle. You'll get the first strike with your kitsune.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz I tried them for awhile but they are so fragile that they pop if someone sneezes in your general direction. I spent more time trying not to die than actually being useful.
What do others think of them? The idea was great, smaller, cheaper, much more mobile mini recons..
Depends on situation, its still cheaper to die in a kitsune than in a falcon if you know you gonna go down anyway.
That said, I love my kitsune, sentinel is very powerful in frigate gangs as well, keres is perfect to keep people from burning back to gates, only one I dont particularly like is the hyena, though that might be cause the rapier is offering so much more with probing capability and cloak.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:50:00 -
[29]
I would say that Keres, Hyena and Sentinel needs longer range on their ewar (that is: scrams, webs, neuts). Keres is crap compared to tackle ceptors, Hyena is decent but operates waaaay to close (and in heavy neut range), sentinels 18km (or so) on neuts is just too short. You dont even use full t2 disruptor range so even stupid tackle ceptor can orbit and kill you given time.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire I would say that Keres, Hyena and Sentinel needs longer range on their ewar (that is: scrams, webs, neuts). Keres is crap compared to tackle ceptors, Hyena is decent but operates waaaay to close (and in heavy neut range), sentinels 18km (or so) on neuts is just too short. You dont even use full t2 disruptor range so even stupid tackle ceptor can orbit and kill you given time.
I agree with this. The kitsune gets a large range bonus even over the rook and falcon so why not the other three? Most EAS have around a 50m signature radius which is way too high. Cut that and you have a great ship.
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